Is 20 schools too many?

[hs764]

I've compiled my list of schools to apply to this upcoming cycle and did the math on what it's going to cost me, and...it's a lot. I'd love cut the number down if it's a possibility but I don't want to negatively affect my odds of getting in somewhere. Is 20 schools over the top or does that sound about right? I have a 525 MCAT and will probably finish with a ~3.7 sGPA, ~3.8 cGPA.

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[aaronrodgers]

20 might not be enough imo.

 

[efle]

Most people with high numbers have to apply to a fairly long list, because the tip-top schools have fierce competition and can be very unpredictable.

The exception to that might be if you were from a state with a very accessible public school you'd be happy to attend. Then you could apply there and a much smaller group of favorite top programs.

 

[hs764]

I'm from Virginia. The only school I'm applying to in my home state is UVA, which is pretty competitive, although I have established a relationship with one of their admissions people that I met at a med school fair.

I'm also applying to some less competitive private schools and public schools in other states. I'm not sure what my expectations should be since my MCAT is really high but my GPA isn't.

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[libertyyne]

As long as your EC's are good you should be able to apply anywhere with those stats.

 

[Tenk]

So long as there is a good variety there in terms of competitiveness and out of state acceptance that seems like a great number. 30 might be too much for you. Not 20. If you want to add a few more "safety schools" that would be advisable as well. Good luck.

 

[hs764]

Shoo, this is gonna run me into the ground. It's worth it if I get in somewhere though. Thanks!

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[efle]

You should post a full app summary/tentative list over in What Are My Chances. People can tell you if you're being way cocky or way humble or just right.

 

[deev04]

List? The schools on a list are much more important than the number. Applying to 15 schools which you have a reasonable shot at will always be better than applying to 30 schools unlikely to give you an interview.

edit: what @efle said

 

[hs764]

Are you asking me to list them? I'd say the lower schools on my list include Emory, Tulane, Rutgers, Georgetown, University of Kentucky, and George Washington. I'll probably end up applying to Eastern Virginia as well.

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[hs764]

I know those are all still good schools but I feel like for my stats and experience they're reasonable.

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[deev04]

Are you asking me to list them? I'd say the lower schools on my list include Emory, Tulane, Rutgers, Georgetown, University of Kentucky, and George Washington. I'll probably end up applying to Eastern Virginia as well.

Yes. See @efle's post above. Make a thread in the WAMC forum with a full app summary and list of potential schools. That's what that forum is for and your list sounds concerning. You can apply with less than 20 schools, but they need to be well thought out.

Kentucky/Rutgers (low yield for OOS)
GW/Georgetown (two of lowest yield schools bc of the number of apps)
Emory (not a safety)
Tulane (maybe a match, do you have service? they tend to like that)

 

[hs764]

I'm applying to Rutgers because I'm in a postbac program at Columbia and they tend to accept a lot of applicants out of this program. I know Georgetown and GW have high numbers of applicants, but they are also very friendly to OOS applicants, and I thought UK was as well. I do have a decent amount of service work, and I actually have a contact in admissions at Tulane as well and she's given me some advice on that.

I'll get on that forum though. I've been feeling like I can aim fairly high but maybe I'm over confident.

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[Lucca]

moving to wamc

 

[deev04]

I'm applying to Rutgers because I'm in a postbac program at Columbia and they tend to accept a lot of applicants out of this program.I know Georgetown and GW have high numbers of applicants, but they are also very friendly to OOS applicants, and I thought UK was as well. I do have a decent amount of service work, and I actually have a contact in admissions at Tulane as well and she's given me some advice on that.

For the Columbia-Rutgers point, Columbia is a NYC postbacc. A huge percentage of the people in the posbacc program are from NY, NJ or NYC, making them effectively IS or local for Rutgers. You can throw an app at them if you want, but being OOS with stats like yours (particularly your MCAT), you probably have almost no chance of an interview. I'd imagine Kentucky is similar. I think leaving Georgetown and GWU is fine. My point was not that you should take them off, but that bc they are so low yield, you need to make sure you have some other well-matched schools. Leaving Tulane on is also fine.

 

[hs764]

I'm trying to decide if my current list is reasonable, if it's possible for me to cut down at all, and if so, which ones I should cut. My undergrad GPA is 3.92 (in a non-science) and I'm finishing a postbac program at Columbia that I think will leave me with a cumulative GPA around 3.8 and a science GPA around 3.7. I've also been working full-time during this postbac program, which is something I'm going to mention in my personal statement and my postbac committee will also mention it in their committee letter. I only took the MCAT once and my score is 525 - breakdown 132, 130, 131, 132. Right now I'm a New York resident but I'm originally from Virginia and trying to move closer to home, so I'm in the process of trying to re-establish my Virginia residency before I apply (all of my family is still there). My undergraduate institution is Lipscomb University, where I was a social work and Spanish major. I have over 120 hours of clinical experience and over 100 hours shadowing, both of which are mostly in an ER setting. I have my four years of research experience at Columbia, plus another year where I was working full-time in mental health research while simultaneously volunteering in two neuroimaging research labs. I haven't done much non-clinical volunteering since college but I did a decent amount while I was there, primarily teaching ESL for two years. I'm fluent in Spanish, which I hope will give me an edge.

My list so far is:

1. UVA
2. Virginia Tech
3. Eastern Virginia
4. Vanderbilt
5. UNC
6. Duke
7. Emory
8. University of Florida
9. Harvard (just to see)
10. Stanford
11. University of Chicago
12. Rutgers
13. Baylor
14. Georgetown
15. George Washington
16. University of Colorado
17. Mayo Clinic
18. Tulane
19. University of Kentucky
20. Tufts

Also considering University of Michigan and Ohio State. Am I aiming too high or is this reasonable?

 

[hs764]

I'm also white, female, and 30, if that matters.

 

[deev04]

I've been feeling like I can aim fairly high but maybe I'm over confident.

You are very competitive. You should be aiming for the stars here! But the top schools are always going to be gamble, so making sure you have a well-thought out school list with some well matched schools outside of the Top 20 is a must even for great applicants. What are your ECs? Stellar ECs is what really determines success at the top.

A well-crafted school list does not mean adding a bunch of state schools or less competitive stat schools. It means choosing schools who are likely to interview you. This means focusing on schools where you are a stat match (so not way above or way below) or have some other connection (like IS). Middle/low-tier privates and OOS public schools might screen you out bc of your sky high MCAT. You need to be going through MSAR and aiming for schools with high MCATs. Case, USC, NYU, Wash U, Vandy come to mind. Definitely apply to UVa (you have a great chance here) and EVMS. I'd also through in VCU.

Beyond that, adding in any of the top schools makes sense.

To summarize, I'd suggest:

Whichever of the Top20 schools you like (besides UWash)
Wash U
NYU
Vanderbilt
Case Western
USC
Emory

UVa
VCU
EVMS

Georgetown
GW
Tulane

**If you still wanted more schools (although probably not necessary)
BU
Einstein (if you wanted to stay in NYC)
Hofstra (likes high stats)

 

[hs764]

I really appreciate your help!

Just to keep things orderly, I made a new post with my full list in the WAMC forum:
525 MCAT, ~3.7 sGPA, ~3.8 cGPA

 

[deev04]

.

 

[deev04]

not to be the broken record here, but Kentucky, UNC, Colorado, Florida and Rutgers are poor choices. They do not accept very many OOS, and the chances they interview a OOS applicant with a 3.8/525 and no ties to the area are slim to none. 3.8/525 is about as competitive as it gets stats wise and you are going to be screened right out of any school that is not also a high stat school or where you are IS.

You have the research for top schools, aiming high will actually be much more high yield. NYU, Case Western, Wash U love high stats and are much better schools. I would put them on your list. If you're looking for some more "safe" schools, USC (high stats, good research), Einstein (in NYC, great research, solid stats), Dartmouth (~75% class in non-trad), BU (research, fairly high stats), Hofstra (high stats). I'd remove Mayo unless you have a lot of service hours.

Suggested list:

1. UVA
2. Virginia Tech
3. Eastern Virginia
4. Vanderbilt
5. Harvard
6. Stanford
7. University of Chicago
8. Duke
9. Emory
10. Wash U
11. NYU
12. Columbia
13. Georgetown
14. George Washington
    
15. BU OR Tufts
16. Einstein
17. Dartmouth
18. USC
19. Hofstra

Michigan, Northwestern, Cornell all make sense as well. Unfortunately aiming high can sometimes mean more apps since the top is so competitive, but wasting apps on schools unlikely to interview you (OOS public schools) is silly.

 

[hs764]

It didn't even occur to me that I would get screened out of a school for having stats that were too high. I know my MCAT is high but my GPA is pretty close to average for UNC, UK, and so on. I have been considering BU and USC though, so I'll probably add those.

What do you mean by service hours? Like non-medical volunteering?

 

[hs764]

I've also considered some of the UCs but those are pretty tough to get into unless you're from CA, right?

 

[deev04]

I've also considered some of the UCs but those are pretty tough to get into unless you're from CA, right?

UCLA, UCSF and UCSD actually accept a pretty large number of OOS applicants. UCLA's MCAT median this year was 508, have no idea what that means, but if you were looking for a spanish-speaking population, LA would be a great place. UCs screen pretty aggressively for their secondary (meaning you'd only receive a secondary and thus have to pay secondary fees if they deemed you competitive for an interview), so they would probably be worth the app if you were interested.

UCI, UCR, and UCD pretty heavily favor CA applicants and CA applicants from their region in particular.

 

[deev04]

What do you mean by service hours? Like non-medical volunteering?

Any volunteering or altruistic endeavors. Can be medical or non-medical.

 

[hs764]

Oh cool, I had been considering both of those (particularly UCSF) but talked myself out of it because I thought the whole UC school system was almost impossible for anyone out of state. But if they screen primaries then that's definitely worth the risk. Thanks for the advice!

 

[mw18]

You could also add Hopkins, Penn, Michigan, Northwestern.

 

[hs764]

Yeah, I've definitely thought about those last three, especially Michigan. I despise Baltimore, so I probably won't apply to Hopkins.

 

[deev04]

I know my MCAT is high but my GPA is pretty close to average for UNC, UK, and so on.

I actually think looking at GPA ranges is only useful is you fall at the bottom end of the spectrum. Beyond a certain point, there is often very little increased value in slight improvements in GPA. A school is not going to look a 3.7 vs 3.8 vs 3.92 and think that the 3.92 automatically looks better than the 3.7. Schools know that there is such variance in GPA/grading across schools and majors and that it is impossible to directly compare GPAs. And they know anything above a 3.7 is pretty great, so + or - .1 is never going to be a deciding factor.

However, the MCAT is standardized. Schools can and do directly compare scores. Since MCAT scores represent a normal distribution, increases in score/percentile rank become increasingly significant since scores become increasingly rarer. So while there might not be any real difference in academic performance between that person with a 3.7 and the one with a 3.8, someone who gets a 509 (matriculant average) is 82nd percentile, while a 521 is 99th percentile (making a 525 >>99th percentile). That's a huge difference and why average MCAT varies so much more than average GPA across schools.

 

[Goro]

List is fine. Suggest deleting Baylor, Rutgers, Vtech, Gtown, UF and UK. Add the Manhattan Titans, Hofstra, Yale, Keck, UCLA and Einstein. U MI and OH State are fine. Consider JHU, Vandy, Northwestern, Mayo and Pitt.
My list so far is:

1. UVA
2. Virginia Tech
3. Eastern Virginia
4. Vanderbilt
5. UNC
6. Duke
7. Emory
8. University of Florida
9. Harvard (just to see)
10. Stanford
11. University of Chicago
12. Rutgers
13. Baylor
14. Georgetown
15. George Washington
16. University of Colorado
17. Mayo Clinic
18. Tulane
19. University of Kentucky
20. Tufts

Also considering University of Michigan and Ohio State. Am I aiming too high or is this reasonable?[/QUOTE]

 

[mw18]

Yeah, I've definitely thought about those last three, especially Michigan. I despise Baltimore, so I probably won't apply to Hopkins.

It's not so bad!

 

[tantacles]

Merged both threads since they had a very similar question.

 

[bonedoc5576]

My daughter just went through the cycle this year with similar stats. Obviously the more programs you apply to, the better chance of translating your hard work into not only an acceptance, but merit aid (which in our case was more valued than ultra elite academic pedigree). Unfortunately these days high MCAT scores don't seem to matter so much beyond a threshold, and will keep you out of some programs because of yield protection. For example, daughter did not even get an interview invite from Emory. Because admissions is such a crapshoot, I would advise you apply to more than 25. I suspect you'll be valued at UVA and I predict it will be your first of multiple acceptances. My advice is apply broadly and aim for the money. Daughter was lucky and next year her cost of attendance will be zero.

 

[hs764]

My daughter just went through the cycle this year with similar stats. Obviously the more programs you apply to, the better chance of translating your hard work into not only an acceptance, but merit aid (which in our case was more valued than ultra elite academic pedigree). Unfortunately these days high MCAT scores don't seem to matter so much beyond a threshold, and will keep you out of some programs because of yield protection. For example, daughter did not even get an interview invite from Emory. Because admissions is such a crapshoot, I would advise you apply to more than 25. I suspect you'll be valued at UVA and I predict it will be your first of multiple acceptances. My advice is apply broadly and aim for the money. Daughter was lucky and next year her cost of attendance will be zero.

Ahhh, that's a shame. I really do love Emory so I'll probably apply there anyway. But that's great advice. Congrats to your daughter!

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[Goro]

25 is a good number with a strategic list.
[
QUOTE="hs764, post: 18890739, member: 764335"]I've compiled my list of schools to apply to this upcoming cycle and did the math on what it's going to cost me, and...it's a lot. I'd love cut the number down if it's a possibility but I don't want to negatively affect my odds of getting in somewhere. Is 20 schools over the top or does that sound about right? I have a 525 MCAT and will probably finish with a ~3.7 sGPA, ~3.8 cGPA.[/QUOTE]