Internal Medicine Residency Thread

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As a potential DO student I'm trying to figure out all the hoops I may have to jump through and I came across an interesting one with regards to the first year internship. My question to you is this, during residency are there opportunities for elective rotations in most IM programs? How open would a program director be to the need for a student to complete a FM rotation? Thanks again

All IM residencies will have elective time. Some will have elective time in the intern year, some will have it all in the PGY-2 and 3 years. Doing a month of FP should not be a problem. Presumably, you are thinking ahead to complete the requirements for a resolution 42 request.

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I am an IMG who will graduate in April 2009. I have a step 1 score of 257 and will be giving my step 2 in April. I should hopefully be ECFMG certified by Sept 2009.

However, I will be doing basic research in a very prestigious university and I really want to spend an additional year doing it instead of applying for the match this year as I wanted to get an understanding of basic research.

I wanted to know, would doing an additional year and applying for the 2011 match in Internal Medicine make PDs cautious about the 1 1/2 year I have been away from medical school?

Also knowing how much time it takes to publish in basic research, would it go against me if I didnt get a publication in it when I apply after 1 1/2 year?

Thanks

Many IMG's use research as a way to familiarize themselves with the US, study for and take the USMLE's, and apply for residency. 1.5 years is fine. I would try to get some clinical experience if at all possible -- perhaps your mentor is clinically active, or knows someone who is. A publication would be better than no publication, but no pub is not the end of the world.
 
1.) How bad was my departure for my poor program director and the residency? (For clarity, and hopefully peace of mind)

If you left with no notice, in the short term, pretty bad. Presumably, your classmates were tapped to cover any work you left uncovered. if you left a competitive field, someone else probably jumped at the chance to fill your spot. Still, I'm sure all survived and in the end no one will care.

2.) Work ideas? (Consulting has been suggested, but for what sorts of companies? Medical science liaison, also sounds fun)

There is no easy answer here. Employers may look at an MD without a residency as not very helpful. There are some threads about this scattered on SDN.

3.) Quick and Painless residency programs / specialties? (too bad pathology has a transitional year first- I loved histo)

I am a US citizen and medical grad. I was a competitive candidate. Thanks for your time!

Pathology is a PGY-1 match. There is no TY or prelim required.
 
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Hi Dr. IM Program Director,

I am an osteopathic medical student. Thank you very much for giving us a chance to understand more about the applying process to IM residency.

I have 2 questions:
1/ What factors will contribute to IM residency selection at allopathic IM program, particularly for DO student?

2/ I'm really interested in Gastroenterology (both osteopathic and allopathic). Therefore, I would like to ask if away-rotation electives in Gastroenterology will have any positive contribution to my chance get in GI fellowship after IM residency. Lastly, will being a DO give me less competiveness to GI fellowship at a MD GI program?

Thank you very much for your time

1. COMLEX or USMLE scores, familiarity of the allopathic PD with the DO program, away rotations at allopathic programs with a letter are likely three big variables.

2. It depends what you mean by "away rotations". GI rotations as a medical student are unlikely to have any lasting benefit. Doing an away GI rotation as a resident might be helpful, especially if your home program doesn't have a GI training program or you do your away rotation at a big name program.

Yes, in general, being a DO will make it harder to get an allopathic GI slot.
 
Hi, I am an IMG who graduated february 2008. Since then I have been working at a private clinic in my home country. I have recently taken my step 1 and I got a 248/99. As for the majority of IMG's I am still laking USCE and I will probably be able to do an observership, because I haven't been able to find any programs who offer "hands on" USCE after graduation. What do you think my chances are of getting a spot in a fairly good university based program if I do this observership (3 months) and get LOR's from my experience? All this added to getting a strong step 2 score, hopefully equalling or improving my step 1 score.

Thanks for your time and help.

It's really impossible to say. Your Step 1 score is excellent, and as mentioned you'll want to do as well on CK if possible. You'll want to get ECFMG certified. The USCE will help also. After that, it comes down to how well you interview, and whether PD's have experience with students from your school. You might want to ask your school about who has come to the US, and where.
 
Aprog -- Reading through your posts was super informative. Not sure if you're still accepting questions as it looks like its been a while but here it goes.

I'm in my final year at a six year combined md/ba program with average step 1 score. Took step 2 early to try to beef up my app but i'm still waiting on those results. I have mostly honored all my cores, if not high passed. I have research experience, recieved a grant thru my progra but no pubs. So bottom line I'm interested in IM then GI (i love hepatology). My questions to you are:

1) What kind of questions should I be ready for on interviews being that I'm from a 6 year program?
2) Knowing what you know is it even worth my time to apply to competitive programs like U of colorado, washington or vermont?
3) I'm not one to brag about myself or sell myself (what have you) so the prospect of going on interviews and talking about me scares the heck out of me. Any advice?

I appreciate your input. Thanks!

1. Six year program shouldn't matter. You have an MD, that's all that will really matter.

2. Sure. Plus I'm not sure that all of those programs are as competitive as each other. Colorado and UW are quite competitive. UVM and Dartmouth are somewhat less so, mainly due to their location.

3. Get over it / don't worry about it. Be yourself. Sell yourself. Interview the program back -- why should a great guy like you consider them?

Practice interviewing if you don't feel comfortable.

Steer the interview to calm waters. Talk about your hobbies, or your volunteer experiences.

Don't sweat it when someone asks a crazy question. "If you had to be a blue-colored vegetable, which one would you be?"
 
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dear PD,

Firstly let me thank you for all the help you are giving. I am an img with a score of 90 in step 1 and ck exams due in sept 1st week (cs passed).My question is that, i have failed one subject (medicine) in my final year and hence had to retake it after 5 months. It is not mentioned in my MSPE. Should i mention it in eras or anywhere else.In eras there is a question that whether there was any delay in medical schooling and IF yes why? what should be my response to this question as it is not mentioned in MSPE. Will not mentioning about it affect me later?

i am expecting results of ck on oct 6. When willl be the ideal date to apply (sept 1st itself or after taking ck in the 1st week of sept with ck score pending or after getting the score on oct 6) ?

i am applying only to internal medicine. pls clarify my doubts

I expect that your failure in medicine will be on your trasnacript. As long as your graduation was not delayed, you do not need to mention it elsewhere on your application. Whether you should mention it in your personal statement, and explain what happened, is a matter of some debate. Some would argue that it would give you a chance to accept responsibility and demonstrate that you've moved beyond it. Others would argue that you're simply drawing attention to a weak spot in your application, and perhaps some programs wouldn't have even noticed it. I'm not sure there's a right answer.

As for application date, I'm not sure it matters. Programs that want your step 2 score will simply wait until it's in to review your application. Whether you apply now or later, the result is likely to be the same.
 
Hey,

Many thanks for all your posts in this forum! Has been very helpful to read.

Have 2 questions, I apologise if the first one is a variant of previous questions but wondered if my personal situation would warrant a different answer:
I am an IMG, graduated from a London medical school.

1) If I get >95 in the USMLE step 1, step 2 CK and step 2 CS and have already published two case reports in peer reviewed journals, and have completed first two years post graduation in IM jobs in London and have a Green card, what are the chances of getting an IM residency in a university based hospital without US clinical experience?

There is no way to answer this question. Each application is evaluated in it's entirety. Some programs will require USCE to consider. Some will consider your Uk experience acceptable.

2) When FREIDA describes an institution as 'university based' does this mean it is more heavily research orientated and more competitive to get into than community based university affiliated hospitals?

Usually, yes. Univeristy based = the program is a major affiliate of the medical school. Univeristy affilitaed = a hospital where some residents/students rotate, but not a core hospital.
 
Thanks for anwering my questions above. I am someone interested in academia. The dept chair of medicine at my school recommended I look into schools with a primary inter-city hospital that will allow for clinical diversity with a good referral center. I specifically remember him mentioning UT-southwestern which as I understand it, is a huge huge campus that sees lots of volume. He strictly advised against washu as its so research heavy. What would be the benifit of having a referral center? Any suggestions on programs (in the midwest) that fit this criteria?

This aside. What are your criteria in 'grading' programs? Residents have told me to look at the acgme accreditation length as well as ABIM pass rates, fellowship placement and to a lesser degree, $$$ of national funding.

Ultimately I think its paramount to figure out whether or not the program really cares about its residents. Easier said than done. Even residents give you sugar coated answers.... Suggestions?

Thank you in advance.

Most programs are so busy with clinical work it will not matter what their "referral center is". Writing off Wash U is silly -- it's a great program, in a great location, with a great PD (Note: it's not my program). There are many programs like this. If you're interested in academics, better to stick with a univ based program although plenty of community program trained docs have ended up in academics.

You have otherwise answered your own questions. The things you mention are easy to measure about programs, and probably useless for actually assessing them. Whether programs care about their residents or not is probably the key factor. As you mention, it can be difficult to discern, but not impossible.
 
What is the best way to assess programs?

I would say:

1. How well they treat/respect their residents
2. How successful their grads are (i.e. jobs / fellowships / boards)
3. How happy you see yourself there. It's hard to be your best when you're working as hard as you will as a resident and not enjoying it. This is often termed "gut instinct"
 
Dear aProgDirector,
Thank you for taking your valuable time to guide us in our pursuit. My question is, i got my degree in 2005 while my medical school last attendance date was 2003.

this is due to the fact that i had to do a 12 month rotating internship and it took some time for me to transfer from my medical school to the place where i did my internship. Since my university gives degree only once a year, i got my degree in 2005.

So will this be considered as interruption in my training. I did not think so earlier, so mentioned NO for the Q "Medical Education/Training Extended or Interrupted?"

And will this gap adversely effect my chances of securing a IM residency? Even though i have 239 and 249 in Step 1 and 2, could this be a factor in me not getting the iv's.
Thanks you again.

It's always difficult to describe training in other countries. In general, if there is a delay from when you finish medical school to when you started your required internship that delayed your graduation, I would answer yes -- and explain it just as you have done above.

Regardless, I don't think that it's going to be a problem. The problem is going to be graduating in 2005, and applying in 2009. Many programs have cutoffs of 3 years. Some do not, and you should focus your applications on those. There is no centralized list of criteria for program application, unless someone has posted them somewhere here on SDN.
 
Dear aProgDirector,

First, thank you for taking your valuable time to answer questions on this thread. This is really helpful! I do have one question that has been lingering on my mind.

I fell in love with IM for many aspects, some of which include getting to know patients and forming thorough differential diagnosis. As of right now, I personally favor primary care track IM programs for more exposure in outpt experience, preventive care, chronic disease managements, longterm care..etc. I have also applied to categorical positions.

If I plan on entering academia after my residency (i.e. applying for fellowships in general internal medicine, get MPH degree and stay involved in teaching residents & med students), do you think considering PCIM programs is a good way to go?

From what I hear, PCIM programs select candidates who are really interested in outpt practices. (and weed out those not interested in primary care) I am very interested in primary care. However, I worry about PCIM program directors frowning upon my desire to stay in academia, esp. I plan on applying to fellowship programs in general internal medicine and not open up a practice right away. Am I being too concerned about this?

You are too concerned about this. If you want to become an academic primary care doc, they will love you. It's a dying breed.
 
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aProgDirector,

My wife and I are applying couples match. I am applying to EM and my wife is applying to IM. I have a couple of questions regarding to residency applications, one is specific to couples matching.

1. I scored 201 on my USMLE step 1 (wasn't a great student first 2 years, no real excuse for my performance - essentially basic sciences aren't my strongest point) but did better 3rd year (approximately equal amounts high pass and honors on rotations) and scored >250 on step 2. I have read your comments that you believe step 2 is a better predictor of residency performance, but I don't think many people do so poorly on step 1 and then relatively well on step 2. How would you feel about this when looking at it? Is this a step 1 score that is almost too low to swallow at many residency programs? Am I likely to be screened out of many places before they even see my improved step 2 score? I feel lucky that I scored slightly above 200 because I tell myself that perhaps the cut off at some programs is 200, but I realize that it is easily in the bottom quartile of step 1 scores.

2. This question is the one explicitly about IM. My wife is applying to IM with high honors on clerkships, AOA, 260s on her step 1 and 2 so I know that of course she will have no trouble matching. My question is that how much of an effect will her fantastic application help me with gaining interviews/match rank. I ask because I have had advisors tell me that this happens and I've had classmates who know both of our scores and they act like I will be fine because an IM program that loves my wife will contact the EM program. I don't doubt this happens, but it just seems that in a field like IM where there are so many residents in a program, the PDs wouldn't be as likely to contact other programs about the couples matching partner of an applicant they like as in smaller programs like derm/radiology/anesthesia where they really really want the top applicants on their rank list. I'm not going to lie, it would be nice if my wife could help (I have my pride, but I'm not above getting help from my wife) me, but I'm not counting on it. What is your feeling about calling your colleagues in other programs to talk about an applicant you would love to have in your program? And on the flip side, how do you usually respond when/if other programs contact you regarding an applicant?

Thanks for the information.

1. Personally, I'd think that the Step 2 score was a more accurate assessment of how you'll do in residency (if any exam can really predict that) and not worry at all about your Step 1 score. I think you are overly worried about this. Some tip-top programs are likely out of reach, but I expect that you'll receive many, many interviews.

2. Even though my list is long, I contact all of my fellow PD's about couples. How much effect will it have? Who knows? In general, I don't move someone from the bottom of the list to the top because someone else asks me, but I will move someone to the top of their group, or even into the group above. In any case, your wife's outstanding stats will only help you.
 
Hi,

I am a 4th year DO students and applying to only Allopathic IM because where I am from there is no DO residency. I took both USMLE and COmlex part I and II and passed both on 1st try. Since I am applying to allopathic residency only, I only submitted USMLE score and did not submit my Comlex since I did much better on USMLE than COMLEX. My Step I is 204 and step II 221 and I submitted my application Sept 1 and so far no interview invite yet. Do you think not submitting my COMLEX score makes my application incomplete? I checked all programs website and they only required USMLE, but since I am a DO student, I am not sure if programs are waiting for my COMLEX score before reviewing my application. Any input is appreciated. Thank You

The answer is going to depend on the program. I expect that most programs will be perfectly happy with USMLE alone, and won't care, especially if that's what they say on their websites. Personally, I'd review your app with USMLE alone, decide whether to interview you or not, but still ask to see your COMLEX. Not sure why I would do this, as if your COMLEX scores are worse, it doesn't really help me at all -- I'd believe the USMLE scores anyway.

So: probably doesn't matter. If you're getting nervous, you could always contact 1-2 programs to see what they say.
 
Dear AProgDirector,

Much appreciation to you for taking your time to help students on SDN. Can't be an easy job on top of everything else!

I just had a quick question I didn't see addressed anywhere else. Do programs these days really still offer contracts outside of the match? My school strongly strongly advised us against this.

Also, is there any advantage or difference to scheduling interviews earlier vs later? Seems that those who interview later would have the advantage of being remembered. Thank you :)

Programs can and will offer spots outside the match to non-US MD 4th year students. All current 4th year MD students must use the match. Whether being able to take a spot outside the match is "better" or "worse" than remaining in the match is a topic of some debate. Obviously, if your top ranked program offers you a spot, then you are golden and done early. However, if a program that is going to be #5 offers you a spot you need to choose -- stay in the match and perhaps get nothing (since the program that offered you a spot may give it to someone else) but have a chance of something better, or take the guaranteed spot and never know if you could have done better. In general, the better the program the less likely they are going to be willing to offer prematch spots.

Interviewing early vs late makes no difference. Programs that interview large numbers of people build their rank list as the season progresses. You will not be forgotten.
 
Dear Program Director,
I am a third year medical student interested in IM and I find your responses really helpful, thanks! You recently posted the following regarding program parameters (along with others I've seen you post) that help students make a choice between residencies...


My question is regarding point #2: one of the big factors of "success" for me in choosing a program is not just jobs, fellowships, or boards scores but clinical knowledge - meaning the individual's capability to really diagnose and treat patients' medical problems. Do you find that certain programs prepare students more readily to tackle patient problems in healthcare? Do you think certain IM programs teach their residents medicine really well, better than other programs do? If so, what sort of questions should I ask when looking at a program? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I wish I had a good answer for you. I don't. I guess you could ask the residents whether they feel prepared for independent practice, but I am not convinced that they would even know.
 
Dear Prog Director,
So I've heard that during residency interviews, one does not want to mention that he is thinking of pursuing X specialty, because this will impact how a candidate will be ranked by the program. For example, if asked what specialty I'm considering, is it safer to state that I'm interested in a noncompetitive specialty than to state that I'm interested in a competitive one?

How much of this do you think is true, and what do you think? ;)

A good question. In general it probably doesn't matter much. I guess the issue is this: if you tell me that you're interested in GI but you're a weak applicant, I might be worried that you won't get a GI spot. Hence, you could be unhappy, frustrated, etc. Hence perhaps I should rank you lower?

Personally I think that's crazy. First, people change their minds about subspecialties all the time. Second, I've seen some weak candidates be very persistant and get a spot. So, I think it's probably overblown.

Whatever you do, don't lie. Feel free to tell PD's that you haven't made up your mind, or your considering several options, or you want to wait and see how your PGY-1 goes and your subspcialty experiences there. Don't simply choose endo/neph etc because they are non-competitive. I'm going to need to write you an LOR, and I'd like to say that you're trustworthy.
 
Dear Program Director.

I am aware that many IMGs have posted seeking advice on their application circumstances, and that most circumstance combination have somehow been reviewed so far throughout this thread, but I'd still find useful to have an opinion on my own, which is a bit different from what I've read.

I am an IMG, who graduated in late 2007. I have been working as a general practitioner in my home country ever since.
I do have 3 months of hands-on USCE: Critical Care Medicine at a reference center in Virginia, Surgical Emergency room at Houston's county hospital, and Pediatric Neurology at Texas Medical Center as well. (I needed a broad scope experience in the US setting in order to make a decision, thus the mixture).
The ICU rotation gave me my pride and joy: a LOR from a Medicine faculty member.
There is nothing else of relevance in my curriculum.

There comes my huge problem: I did very poor on my Step 1, that is 193/79.
Therefore I am in need for a serious opinion which I hope will help me decide whether or not to start burning my eyelashes studying to overcome this with a Step 2 score.
And I'm not interested in FM.

Your app sounds quite good, except for the Step 1 score. You have really good sounding US clinical experience. ? if you got LOR's from your other rotations also. Usually, all you need to do is ask.

All hope is not lost. You need a nice bounce on your Step 2. Your options will be more limited -- some of the better univ programs may decline to interview you, but I expect you'll get some decent interviews in IM. If your Step 2 score is similar, it will be an uphill battle.

So, at this point the added cost (taking step 2) seems small to what you've put into this already.

Thanks for your time, and happy belated Pastafarian holidays.

May his noodliness reach out and touch you this holiday season.
 
I'm sure programs are not legally able to discriminate against applicants with disabilities (i.e. learning/attention disorders), but would this make applicants much less desireable?
For example, if an applicant with a documented disability such as those mentioned above had a series of low board scores/shelf exam failures, followed by a series of very high ones due to remediation of the problem via new testing accomdations, etc., should this be mentioned in the dean's letter/personal statement as an explanation for the previous poor performance? Or will making mention of that hurt the applicant even more?

This is a very hard question to answer. Program directors are going to be wary of people whom have had poor performance on prior exams, for the obvious reason that it tends to predict future problems. However, if you have a track record of improvement, that will work in your favor. Thoughts to consider:

1. It depends on what you mean by "new testing accommodations". If you were given "official accommodations" (such as additional time, etc) by the USMLE, it will already be on your USLMLE transcript. Although it will not say what the accommodations were, it will mention "testing accommodations" on your transcript. So, in this case, the cat is out of the bag and it's probably worth talking about.

2. If the accommodations were all granted by your medical school, then you've got a bigger problem. Just because your medical school offered you accommodations, there is no guarantee (nor requirement) that others do so also. This has happened with MCAT/USMLE before -- the MCAT grants an applicant accommodations, but the USMLE does not. Each makes their own independent assessment as to whether you require the accommodation. So, whether you would be granted an accommodation for an ITE, Step 3, the ABIM boards, in house exams, etc, is all up for grabs. If you have been granted accommodations by the USMLE (who tends to be the most conservative of the group), then the rest will probably follow suit -- but there is no guarantee, especially concerning the ABIM.

3. Other than exams, does your disability have other far reaching effects? Would you need more time to write notes? Would you need a quiet place to do work on the wards? These can be problematic, and may not be covered by ADA. For example, let's say that because of dyslexia you write more slowly / need more proofreading. My residents usually admit 5-7 patients per night. If your disability prevents you from doing this full workload at an acceptable quality within duty hour limits, what happens? You can ask for an accomodation but I do not have to (am not legally required to) decrease your workload, so you can't ask to only have 3-5 admissions, nor can you have more time (as duty hour limits are absolute, and completing notes the next day would be unacceptable for patient care).

The bottom line is this: Most PD's would want to see that this is fixed, and that they would not need to do anything (perhaps short of giving you extra time on the ITE) to address it. The more unlike your situation is to this, the more it will hurt you.
 
Dear aProgDirector,
Is it true that if you match into a University fellowship program in oncology after doing a residency at a community program that you can get a job at a University after fellowship. I heard people tend to look at where you did your fellowship matters and that matters the most.
The reason I ask is because geographically I would prefer to go to a community program. However, I would not want that to hurt my future aspiration of being an academic oncologist. From the colleagues that you know, have any of them done a residency in a community program. Thank you very much.

Yes, in general what matters is where you do your final training. So, if you do as you describe (community program residency followed by a univ program onc fellowship) you should have no problem getting a Univ onc position.

However, you might find that getting a univ onc position is not as easy if you're in a community program. In general, your application will be seen as stronger if you're coming from a university based residency program (although that is a large generalization and it really depends on what you do). For example, it will be important for you to do some onc research during your residency, and thus you should make sure that any community program you are considering has the resources to help you with that.
 
Dear ProgramDirector,

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions.

I am about to finish my MS2 year at an average university medical school with Bs and Cs. I would love to go to one of the top 25 internal med programs and then specialize in Card or GI. I hope to do well on Step 1 to make up (a little) for my first 2 year grades.

My 1st question is what do I need to do from here on out to give myself a decent chance of achieving these goals?

My 2nd question is how do I go about performing well third year. What can I do to prepare myself?

Thank you!

The best way to address low grades preclinically is with a good Step 1 score and good clinical grades. How to prepare yourself is really beyond my abilities to answer -- it totally depends upon your strengths / weaknesses, your school, etc.
 
Hello,

I am a newly accepted medical student and have an important question for you.

Say a student applies for a medical residency program and has outstanding USMLE scores, reseach, LOR but has one draw back. Accommodations were used for the USMLE. (for ADD).

How much would this affect/hurt my chances of entering a top notch IM residency program or any competitive specialty.

A side note: I have worked for years in one of the busiest urgent care clinics in the country, can multitask and write patient notes just fine. When it comes to clinical work I would require NO accommodations and actually seem to thrive. That being said, who knows if I would even get the chance to explain that in an interview for residency. I would greatly appreciate your insight. (shoot straight with me, I dont want the sugar coat) THANK YOU

First, the USMLE is very stingy about accommodations. Just because you have obtained accommodations in the past, you should not assume that you will get them in the future.

In any case, you could always explain this in your application, or in your personal statement. How much it will matter will depend on the rest of your application.
 
Dr. Progdirector,
From your experience and talking to other program directors. Assuming one did not cause any red flags during the interview day and dinner. Does it make a difference if you write a letter to the program direcot that you would be happy to match at that program. Also, how common do programs contact "ideal" candidates by email or phone call. Also, if you receive a thank you letter do you try to respond back. Lastly, why do some program directors care if they go low on their ranklist. Is this a measure of residency strgnth or just bragging rights for the next program director meetings.

Dear aPD,

Thanks for all your suggestions and advise. my question is - many of friends are saying that we need to email the PD/PC before the rank order list submission to further express applicants interest in the program.

may be to let PD/PC know- i am still in the race and would love to come to ur program and will rank ur prog highly etc...

what is your take on this?

thanks a lot

Two near identical questions, common this time of year. There are no clear answers. I don't know if it makes much difference to contact programs -- I expect not. Programs contact applicants all the time, and I wouldn't read too much into it.
 
Dear aPD,

Thanks for all your suggestions and advise. my question is - many of friends are saying that we need to email the PD/PC before the rank order list submission to further express applicants interest in the program.

may be to let PD/PC know- i am still in the race and would love to come to ur program and will rank ur prog highly etc...

what is your take on this?

thanks a lot

I think this is mostly a bunch of baloney. Most programs will do exactly as students will do -- rank applicants in the order we want them. Perhaps for some small programs, or very competitive ones, or ones that hand out mostly prematches, communications like this make a difference. For most, probably not.
 
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer our questions.

How would you see my application when it comes to Interview calls for IM ?

I graduated in 2001 with an MBBS from India.
Post graduate degree- MRCP from the UK with 5.5 years of clinical experience in the UK.
My scores are Step 1 - 88, Step 2 - 88, Csa - 2 attempts.

I have attended a number of courses, the last being ACLS in chicago and was involved in Pharmaceutcal research ( Phase 3 ) whilst practising hospital medicine in the UK.

I fell in love and got married to a very lovely girl who didnt want to move to the UK, ergo here i am.I have applied for ECFMG certification. I intend to get a local LOR and am in the process of applying for observerships/extenships.

I was also wondering if i should address my 2 attempts in my personal statement. I failed on the patient note, i suspect it was my handwriting. I can still remember my wife telling me to use the computer. I did the second time around.

I did peruse the threads to check if there was a precedent to my situation that i could learn from, but there isnt.

Thank you.

It's really impossible to answer questions like this. It totally depends on the entirety of your application, content of letters, programs you apply to, etc.
 
Dear aPD, I know this is a bit unusual question but how much effect does an attempt in step 3 has over the fellowship prospects. does it matter to a great extent in this present day competition ? thanks and have a great time.

By "attempt" I assume you mean a failed attempt. It totallyt depends on the field, and the rest of your application. Obviously, it's less than ideal.
 
Program Director, Hi I am an IMG, graduated february 2008 and have been working at a private clinic in my home country. I am currently doing an observership at a university hospital (although it is an observership I do have hands on clinical experience, I do H&P's, progress notes, follow up the patient, present the cases at rounds) here in the USA. This will be a 3 month rotation and I am fairly confident that I will be able to obtain LOR's from this experience.

My step 1 score was 248/99 and my step 2ck 260/99. I will be probably publish a paper (a case report) in my home country promptly. Will take the CS and hope to me ECFMG certified by august-september.

My question is, would you consider that I have a fairly good chance to get interview's at good University hospital program's?

I haven't done any research, how important is that factor?

Thanks.

It's impossible to answer questions like this. Excellent USMLE's and some US clinical experience should generate some interest from programs. Exactly how competitive you are depends on the entirety of your application, and on how competitive your competition is.
 
Program Director,

Hi, I am an IMG with observership done at private clinics in Florida and California. I received letters of recommendation from them and currently trying to get observership positions at hospitals (but have not had any luck).

I scored 239/99 on Step 1 (first attempt) and currently preparing for Step 2. As my clinical skills are much stronger than basic science, I figure to score a 99 on Step 2 CK.

I have contacted many programs looking for observership positions already. Do you have any suggestions for me? What else can I do to qualify for a good IM residency position?

Thank you very much!

Sounds like you already have a good plan.

Do as well on the steps as possible.

Get all three basic steps (I, IICK, IICS) done by Sept 1.

Try to get more US clinical experience. It is not easy. It often comes down to whom you know. Use any connections you might have.
 
Hello,

Thanks for all of your excellent advice on this thread. It's a huge help.

I'm currently a second year medical student at a fairly highly regarded medical school (top 15) and am about to take the USMLE Step 1 and start my third year in a couple of months.

The specialty I was initially most interested in pursuing was anesthesiology, so I did clinical research in that over the summer between my first and second year. I have given several poster presentations of my research, including those at the school, one at a regional conference and one at the annual meeting of a big anesthesiology research society. I should also theoretically get a publication out of it once more data is collected. I also have a single publication in another non-IM, non-anesthesia specialty in basic science from my days as an undergrad.

Though I haven't ruled out anesthesia, I've recently been more interested in possibly pursuing an IM residency with a subsequent fellowship in cardiology and would therefore like to match into a well regarded academic IM residency when the time comes.

I am concerned about my lack of research in IM related field, particularly in cardiology. Some of my (very competitive) classmates have been very active in basic science research in cardiology, and I am concerned that my research in anesthesiology will not be as helpful to me as research in an IM related specialty would have been in terms of securing a good IM position.

I would like your advice about how to proceed. Should I be pursuing more research at this point? I'm concerned that doing so may negatively impact my performance on the wards by taking up time where I could otherwise be studying. And if so, should I continue clinical research with my current PI (where I may be able to be first author on the paper if I do a lot more work and write most of the manuscript) or should find a cardiology faculty member who I could do basic science research with? I keep hearing from some people that I shouldn't worry about cardiology at this point and that if I do well on my exams and the wards, I should be able to secure a good IM position and can then worry about doing research in cardiology later on as a resident. In any case, this matter has caused me quite a bit of distress recently, so any insight you could provide would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help.

Honestly, I think you are seriously overthinking this. Medicine PD's are going to be impressed with your research, regardless of the field. You'll simply explain somewhere in your application, probably in your PS, that you were initially interested in anesthesia but changed your mind. Another option is to have one of your letter writers talk about it -- i.e. "He/She was initially interested in anesthesia and did great research with me. When it became apparent that he/she was more interested in Cardiology, he/she remained dedicated to completing his/her projects and did a great job. Anesthesia's loss is your gain". No one is going to care that you changed fields. I agree that I'd focus at present on your clinical grades and performance, since that will likely weigh more in interview / ranking decisions. Finish whatever research projects you have started, as that demonstrates commitment.

The lack of cardiology research is, honestly, meaningless. You'll do cards research in residency. When looking at programs, you want to find one that offers good research experiences early in training. You'll need the cardiology research when you're applying to Cards fellowships, but for the IM application stage having some baseline research success is all that is needed.
 
Dear ProgDirector,

I wanted to ask a question of step 2 cs...

I recently took it and I feel I didn't do as good as I expected. I was very stressed and had a terrible headache, and I think I didn't do nearly as good as I know I can (simply by the experience I have with true patient encounters).

Let me tell you a little bit about my background, I am an IMG, graduated on 2008, and have good step 1 and 2 ck score ( 99/248 and 99/260) and have recently had 3 months of USCE (It was an observership but completely hands-on I was responsible for the care of my patients) in a University hospital, and have 4 LORs from faculty of this hospital.

My question is the following, would failling this test, and passing it in the second attempt, completely ruin my chances to match? Is the CS considered less/more important than step 1 and 2 ck?

I hope you can give me some orientation with this. I understand that you cannot truly assess my application, but I just wanted you to give me a picture... Would you as a PD look at that first CS fail and discard the application?

Thanks you very much.

Some programs get 100's of applications per position. They need to find ways to trim down their applicant pool, and a failure on CS may do that.

Some programs may not care. Your excellent other step scores, and your excellent LOR's / experience may carry the day.

And, you may have passed. There is nothing you can do about it now. If you failed, you'll need to consider applying more broadly, but I expect you will still get invites if you do so.
 
Dear ProgDirector,

What are your thoughts on the ABIM research pathway? I'm a 4th year medical student at a well-respected program in the NE, took a year out to do clinical research but have no other advanced degree (i.e. Ph.D.). My preceptor encouraged me to think about these programs when applying for IM residency since I would like to pursue a heme/onc fellowship afterwards. My interests lie more in clinical vs. basic science and I do see myself continuing clinical practice instead of becoming a full-time (basically) research scientist. Thanks!

In general, the ABIM research pathway is for people with significant pre-residency research experience who are interested in a research heavy career -- usually >80% of time spent in research. From your description above, I don't think this is a good choice for you.
 
Hi, first of all thank you for doing a great job

I am an IMG planing to participate in 2011 Match, interested in IM residency, I've already passed step 1 and 2CK, scored 99, my CS is in August, no USCE
my problem is that I am on my last rotation of the 6th year of my medical school, rotation will be completed on September 20, till then I don't have a final transcript from my school.
What is better for me to do? Do I apply on September 1st, and then upload my transcript when it is available? or do I wait for my transcript to be ready and then apply? is it reasonable to upload unfinished transcript (6th's year rotations will be shown Unsucsessful) and then update it when the final transcript is available?

My second question: I had to interrupt my education for 1 year due to financial reasons(had to work to pay for my school) how will it affect my application? how much detail do I give in my Personal Statement/CV, will it affect my chances for an interview or it is more like an issue that have to be discussed on the interview date?

Thanks in advance.

1. You can certainly apply on Sept 1 and then update your transcript. I'm somewhat surprised that your ongoing coursework would be listed as "unsuccessful". Usually it says "in progress" or something similar. Transcripts from international schools are not the most important part of your application -- so in general I would recommend applying early with an incomplete transcript.

2. All breaks in your training will be examined. ERAS asks you specifically whether your training was interrupted, and then if so gives you a chance to explain why. That's where you should discuss this. I would only talk about it in your PS if you feel there is an important personal narrative around your financial situation you'd like to discuss.
 
Im starting the USMLE process, actually im an IMG from Guatemala. Any pointers to get an IM spot?


Aiming for a University, or University affiliated Hospital Program. :D:D:D:D

Do as well on the USMLE as possible.

If you have not graduated from medical school yet, try to do an away rotation in the US and get an LOR.

Be fluent in English.

Research is a plus, but usually does not trump the above.
 
I am an IMG from one of the finest med school in india.My score are
step 1 94
step 2 96
step 3 80
CS passed

I have 5 month of observership in clinic of a doctor who is an attending at teaching hospital. I have 9 month of research experience in a university setting with 1 research paper under publication (as 4th author).
I have being offered research in one of the best university in US and also an observership in a community program. What you suggest would be best for me, going for research or observership?

Thanks.

Is both an option? I would probably do the US research, and ask your research mentor if they can possibly hook you up with some observer experience or even real clinical experience. Or, do the research and then the observership with your vacation time. An observership at a community hospital is not going to impress university programs, if that's what you're looking for in the end.
 
Hello Sir,

Thanks for taking part of your time to help us.

am an IMG ,2008 grad,scores are 237/99-258/99 and cs pass from first attempt......i have the following questions:

1-i wrote a 3 pages personel statement is it too lengthy?

2-what are the qualities IM program directors like to read in the personel statement about an applicant and the qualities they dont like to read?

3-my Lors may be late.....so is it better to apply september first with one or 2 lors or to wait 2 weeks in september and they apply when all lors get uploaded?

i appreciate your time

Totally fell behind on answering these questions (this one is from 1 month ago). Sorry.

1. Way too long. 1 page, maybe 1.5 max. Else you are boring me. Unless your PS is really, really exciting.

2. Good command of English.

3. Apply now, with letters to follow. Some programs will wait for all your letters to come in, but that's fine.
 
Dear AProgdirector

I am a IMG, 30 years old , just got my step 1 score 97/226, year of graduation:2005, Ob gyn residency completed 2006-2009 (home country) then 6 months working as an ob gyn attending (home country), green card holder,research 01 thesis to obtain my Ob gyn diploma (published by my university but not in a peer reviewed journal), volunteer work in US for 6weeks,did good at my MEd School(upper quartile), got a good MSPE and 01 LOR from home school faculty, came this year to US just to study a pass the boards. Bad Stuff: no observerships. no US LOR. So i really want to get into a US Ob gyn residency program and do a fellowship afterwards that’s my dream, any chances? should I apply to the 2011 match just with my step 1 score? thanks in advance

No one can tell you what your chances are. No US experience may be a problem in OB, less of a problem in FM (where you can deliver babies). Some programs will not review your application without Step 2, but some may. It would be best to have all of your steps (1, 2CK, 2CS) done and ECFMG certification, but you may get some nibbles without. Worst case scenario, you need to apply again next year for your best chances.
 
I am an IMG with step 1 245, step 2 ck 246, I passed CS second time instead of first time. I also took step 3 and got 91. Did 3 months observership in a university hospital 3 with strong letters, I am applying for IM. I am a 2009 grad.
My question is do you consider some one with CS failure?
How badly it will hurt my chances?
What explanation should I give when they ask me in interview?
I remember you saying in some other post that cultural differences and different study pattern is not an excuse for a failure.
Thank you so much for your time and patience.

Hello,

I am an osteopathic student from a well known DO university. I am applying to allopathic academic internal medicine residency programs. USMLE STEP1: 236/COMLEX 1: 638, how many programs should I be applying to and should I be worrying as an osteopathic candidate? Please advise

Hello and thank you for spending your time with this blog my case has been driving me crazy and your input would be welcomed.

I am an IMG from the carib Big 4.
Step 1 188/76
Step 2 CK 213/88 2nd attempt
Step 2 CS Pass 3rd attempt
ECFMG certified

I applied for the match 2010 yet because of CS i was pulled. I had a family disaster last year and i pulled threw but as u can see took many hits. I tried to scramble and find off cycle pgy-1 spots yet to no avail. Ever since I took step 3 passed it with an 85/206 and did 2 months USCE.

My question is how will CS affect my chances at community IM programs and how important is it to you?

Did taking and passing Step 3 help my application?

Dear AProgDirector,

I am an IMG and graduated in 2009. I applied for IM on Sept 1 with my Step 1(96) and Step 2 scores(CK:88, CS:pass).

I have around six months of clinical experience in US and around 6 months of research experience from a good US university(as volunteer).

On Sept 15th, I got my Step 3 score of 98.

Here are my concerns:
1. Would the programs with filters above 90 or so consider my application?
2. What are my chances of getting interviews and a position in IM?

Thanks in advance for you time and consideration.

The answer to all of these questions is the same. There is no way I can tell. I have no idea how each PD weighs USMLE's, or other factors, in their decision. You make your application as good as possible, and apply.
 
A question regarding impact of a red flag on application (repeating first year).
------
Background:

First year went awfully, and I had trouble transitioning from the way I learned in college to the way I need to learn in medical school. I ended up having to repeat the year, and my transcript states this. I repeated the first year the following year and passed everything. (My school is only P/F the first 2 years).

I then decided to take a breather and do a research year (shows up as a "Leave of Absence" on my transcript). That research year ended up being extraordinarily productive, and I ended with several basic science manuscripts, several research posters at national conferences.

After I came back, I had no problems with the second year curriculum after working out the kinks in my approach to the the course work. I did decide to delay step 1 until after 3rd year (with no accommodations) and ended up scoring about the nationwide average for US medical school students (so a few points below the internal medicine Step 1 average).

My third year itself, I did not get any honors, only "High Passes" which are the middle-of-the-road grade at my Honors/ High Pass/ Pass/ Fail school. My comments have largely been favorable, commenting me on knowledge base, professionalism, growth during the clerkship, with the occasional "should read more" and "be more assertive."

I made sure to do my acting internship early in the 4th year year and I think that I had a great experience and asked for a LoR from my attending.

While working on ERAS I've tried to find that awkward balance of addressing it while not making it the central part of my personal statement (in addition to the "extension of medical education" section).

--------------

So now my questions:

1) I think my track record demonstrates that I have gotten past that first year. Although my Step 1 score is in the high "2-teens," there is no way I could have gotten that score or gotten through the rest of medical school if I had the same problems as I did during my first year. Will PD's see it this way?

2) I know that the fantastic research experience will help me out. But how much?

3) Frankly part of the problem is I'm a bad test taker. Considering my Step 1 score, should I take Step 2 CK so that I get my score during interview season? What score would make a PD cringe taking into account my Step 1 score and my difficulties? Or is this going to be risky should I do worse on Step 2 CK?

4) Aside from applying broadly (geographically and program caliber), are there any recommendations you could make for me during the interview trail addressing this weakness?

5) I have a close member of the faculty that I think would be willing to go to bat for me to talk to any PD with potential concerns, as she was intimately involved during that first disastrous year. How should she be involved? Calling? E-mailing? Meeting (if the program happens to be in the same city I am in right now)?

Thanks! Sorry for the rambling.

1. Probably. You had a bad first year, and now have a track record of doing fine.

2. Who knows? It can't hurt. Each program will weigh this differently, as will different specialties.

3. A good score on Step 2 would help. A poor score would hurt. You'll need to weight the risks and benefits. You could take it after you apply but early enough so your score comes back, and then decide whether or not to release it.

4. No. Your track record of success speaks for itself.

5. After you interview and know what your top choice will be, she can call that program and lend her support.
 
Dear aProgramDirector,

Firstly, thank you for the informative posts. They have been extremely helpful.

I am an IMG aiming for residency at a University and in the future, a competetive fellowship (GI, Cardio, Onco, etc). Not getting into a Univ residency will severely hurt my chances of a fellowship.

My credentials are mostly good: 91/99/94. I have USCE, hands-on with in/out-patients. 1 Month each in 3 different IM/sub-specialities. I have LORs from all USCEs above.

I also have done several month research at a University, with 2 presentations at an International Conference, and 1 Publication in a National Journal (US)

Considering my good USCE, USLORs and Research, how badly will lack of 99s in step1/step3 affect my chances of getting a residency at a University?

The reason I ask is that University programs are highly sought after and get several thousand applications. They might use 99s in usmle scores, especially for IMGs, as a means to short-list applications to a more 'reasonable' number.

Thank you so much. Any information is highly appreciated.

It's impossible to tell you what your chances are. Still, USMLE's are often used as an early cut -- if your scores are too low, I simply don't look much further into your application. But, I (and I expect many) PD's don't really rank by USMLE score. Your score gets your application by the first hurdle. Your rank is likely to depend on the rest of the factors in your application (and your scores, of course).
 
Dear aProgramDirector,

Thanks very much for responding to my earlier query.

Currently, I have attached the following LORs:
3 US LORs from USCE,
1 Chair LOR from home country (I am an IMG)

I have a 5th LOR which I did not add in ERAS - it's from research in US. The reason I didn't attach it is that I thought my presentations and publications during research speak for themselves. And I needed the 3USCE LORs to show how well I performed clinically in different settings.

Also, several programs need 1 Chair LOR as part of application.

I would like to know:
- Will having a home country Chair LOR in ERAS (along with 3 USCE LORs) hurt my chances in any way?
- Would I be better off with 3 US LORs from USCE + 1 Research LOR from US research?

Thank you very much for your help.

1. No, that sounds fine. Three USCE letters should be fine for most programs.
2. Probably doesn't matter much either way. I'd bring a copy of the research letter to any interview you have.
 
Dear aProgramDirector,

Thanks again for addressing my concerns.

I have applied only to IM so far, but haven't got many interviews . I am really getting worried and so I am planning for backups.

However, my USCE LORs are specified to IM (i.e., LORs say "... is a good candidate for IM residency").

So, I am wondering:
- Is it ok for me to apply to fields like IM-Peds/IM-FM/IM-EM, Neuro, Pathology, Peds, FM, EM, Obgyn, Psych, etc?
- Will the LORs (geared to IM) hurt my chances of being considered for non-IM fields?
- for my situation, are some non-IM fields better than others? if so, which are my best bets?

Thanks very much for your help.

IN general, applying for one field while having letters supporting a different one is not a good idea. If you do that, programs will assume that you're applying to the other field, and using them as a backup. Programs are often nervous about taking you, because 1) you're likely to rank them low, since all of your IM programs will be listed first; and 2) even if you match, you might be miserable and then want to leave (and use your training to help get an IM spot) which leaves them short a PGY-2, which is not fun.

In addition, letters supporting you in one field don't necessarily mean you'd be any good in another. You might have great IM letters, but be a klutz in the OR for example. There is less problems if you're letters are for IM but you're applying to FM, since the two fields are very similar.
 
Hello,
Thank you for answering questions.
What can be done to make up for a low step 2 score? Will it hurt chances of going to a top IM residency program?
Other stats: great step 1, honors in all rotations from a top 3 med school, multiple publications. Will it hurt chances of going to a top IM residency program? Will doing more research be helpful? Contacting PD at home institution? Away rotations?

Thank you in advance.

First, there isn't agreement on what a "low step score" is. I've seen plenty of posts on SDN stating that "I got a 274 on step one, but now I have a 260 on step 2. OMG! :eek: Programs are going to reject me because of this drop!". Give me a break, and take some valium.

Many US grads think that if they have a 212 on step 2, that they won't match in IM. That's just crazy. If you apply to reasonable programs, including some very good univeristy ones, you'll do just fine.

PD's review your entire app. USMLE's, 3rd year clerkship grades, a letter from a SubI, and a department letter (if available, and if useful, neither under your control) are the most important factors. Research is also sometimes important depending on the program. If your STep 2 isn't as good as you'd like it to be, make sure the rest of your app is as good as it can be.

Away rotations can be a mixed bag. It depends where you go and how you do.
 
aprogdirector said:
1. Probably. You had a bad first year, and now have a track record of doing fine.

2. Who knows? It can't hurt. Each program will weigh this differently, as will different specialties.

3. A good score on Step 2 would help. A poor score would hurt. You'll need to weight the risks and benefits. You could take it after you apply but early enough so your score comes back, and then decide whether or not to release it.

4. No. Your track record of success speaks for itself.

5. After you interview and know what your top choice will be, she can call that program and lend her support.
An update:

I just got my step 2 CK score back, and I am pleased! I improved singificantly (i.e. was slightly below average on Step 1, now I am a few points above average on Step 2 CK). It's a no-brainer for me to release my scores, and I have already done so. But, I have a couple of questions regarding other trickier situations:

1) Should I update programs that I have been rejected to with this score?

2) Will programs look at my new USMLE transcript after it is uploaded by ERAS? Or will I get lost in the mix?

Thanks, as always.

1. I think this is a waste of time. If you had blown Step 2 away, maybe, but even in that case I doubt it will make a big enough difference, and being "just above average" isn't going to change anyone's mind.

2. They'll see your Step 2.
 
Is it a bad idea to apply to 2 programs at the same hospital? I am really interested in Anes and IM, and unfortunately the better Anes programs are at the same IM institutions I might want to go to. Do the programs in the institutions share their applicants info?

Thanks

There is no automatic way to share data between programs. However, it is quite possible that someone will notice -- either someone will recognize you when you are interviewing at the second program, or if you're also looking for a prelim (for anesthesia). If someone notices, it might hurt your chances at both programs.
 
Hi,

I am an IMG currently finishing up my last year in Dublin. My USMLE Scores are - Step 1 = 91/219 , Step 2 = 99/263, and first attempt pass on CS. I have two months clinical experience - one month on general surgery and one month on heme-onc both in a university hospital. I have done some lab research but it was not published. I am planning to complete a 1 year internship in Ireland and apply to the match next year. Just a few questions.

1. When the applications arw screened do they use both step 1 and step 2? I assume I will be screened out of a number of programs due to the lowish step 1 score.

2. I have LOR from both my surgery and heme onc rotations - should I use my surgery LOR as I am applying for IM? Or will it be sufficient to put the surgery rotation on my application and just use the Heme-Onc reference?

3. Some of the programs saw that they accept UK experience and was wondering does that extend to Ireland as well?

4. I have some good LOR from Consultants in the major hospitals Ireland - are these of any use or do you only read US based LOR?

5. I presented the research I did at a student research conference at my school and I am wondering how to word this - I assume when they say "oral presentation" they mean at a big national conference and not at my school's research night.

6. I also spent a summer volunteering abroad in Africa in a hospital - would this be unusual / something to mention in my application or is it fairly common.

7. How much better are your chances of getting a residency if you have American citizenship / do not?

8. I want to do a felowship in Infectious Diseases after IM - should I talk about this or is it better not to mention sub specialisation at this point?

9. I really want to get into a good ID program - People keep telling me that ID is easy to get into compared to other specialties but I am unsure where I should be aiming - what level hospital would I need to get a decent ID fellowship? Would a good hospital affiliated community hospital do or do I need a university based program.

Sorry about all the questions! And thanks for taking so much time out to answer everyone.
 
Dr. aProgDirector,
First of all thank you very much for all of your help on this site. Your honesty (brutal honesty at times) is very helpful.
My question is on fellowships in internal medicine for offcycle applicants. If we are 2 to 4 months off cycle do you recommend that we should apply for a fellowship during our PGY2 year or wait until PGY3 year. I am interested in a competitive field such as Heme/Onc or Cardiology.
Also if you do apply as a PGY2 and cannot start the following July (instead can start September-November of following year ) does this mean you will NOT be ranked by fellowship programs? Do programs prefer out of match "offers" rather than going thru the match with off cycle applicants. Personally what do you do with offcycle applicants for IM. Do you not rank them or consider them for out of match only. If the applicant is strong academically and clinically how much does the offcycle factor make a difference. Lastly, if you have never been in this situation I would appreciate what you would do if you were in that situation i.e. offcycle applicant that is a strong applicant.
Thank you very much.
 
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