Interested in Radiology, Is there really doom and gloom?

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Because of all this supposed doom and gloom.

I'm at a crossroad. One is going into the field I see fits me the most and I can do for the rest of my career life (radiology). Or go into another field that I love and it has much much better market than radiology, but I don't see myself doing it day in and day out for the next 35 years.

I also have a tremendous amount of student loans and have a family to support, so things other than my pure interest will play into my decision.

The job market for radiology is cyclical. It was really bad for graduating residents 5 years ago but much better now. My crystal ball gets foggy after about five years, which is around the time you would be finsishing.

That said, it is more important to find something you like doing than time the job market. Specialties go in and out of favor based on multiple structural and external influences that you and I have no control over. Better to find a field that you like and will (hopefully) like in the future, rather than seeking the best near term opportunity.

Careers can be long and with careful planning and self-discipline, you can erase the debt over a reasonable period of time. What you cannot erase is being stuck in a field that you no longer like.

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I also have a tremendous amount of student loans and have a family to support, so things other than my pure interest will play into my decision.

I am in the same boat. Many students face crushing debt.
The issue with this line of reasoning is that no matter what specialty you go into, there is always a chance that some new law, guideline, or new technology or whatever shifts the market. Some will benefit, some won't. I think you shouldn't worry too much about the future. If I had told you 50 years ago, this is what Radiology will be as it is today, you would have said this guy is insane. My point, is that there is so much more to be done in radiology. I am in the opinion that we have barely scratched the surface and that Radiology will allow to do even more in the future.
Yes the nature of the job will change, the expertise will change, but jobs will alway be there. No specialty is safe. So you may as well train in something you like. Plus given the trend as it is now, I think the Radiology has nice years ahead. It is not the worse specialty to contemplate now. As Sagerad very well put it:
Careers can be long and with careful planning and self-discipline, you can erase the debt over a reasonable period of time. What you cannot erase is being stuck in a field that you no longer like.
 
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To answer your titular question, no.

Not doing a fellowship closes quite a few doors. You can get a job, but it'll be a job that few others want. It's an extra year and probably well worth it.

Lifestyle means different things to different people. In radiology, when people say that lifestyle is gone, they mean that 1) the pace of work in private practice is intense and 2) this is now very much a 24/7/365 field. Radiology still has good things regarding lifestyle. For example, vacation is still generous, and your hours tend to be well-defined.

Sorry to resurrect and old thread but i'm just curious..
If you don't do a fellowship, what do you do between time of residency completion and board certification exams? Isn't there a ~15 months gap between the two?
I assumed lot of Radiology residents are sort of "forced" into a fellowship because it takes so long to be board certified after completing residency.
 
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Sorry to resurrect and old thread but i'm just curious..
If you don't do a fellowship, what do you do between time of residency completion and board certification exams? Isn't there a ~15 months gap between the two?
I assumed lot of Radiology residents are sort of "forced" into a fellowship because it takes so long to be board certified after completing residency.

The push toward subspecialization started long before the changes to the board exam(s), so I don't think there's really a causal relationship there.

To answer your question though - you work, just like people do in all the other specialties that don't confer board certification at or soon after residency. The radiology specific issues here are 1) doing a fellowship is so common that not doing one will put at a disadvantage in the employment market and 2) the board changes are relatively new, so some practices may not have adjusted to give their new hires adequate time off to study.
 
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Only partially true. Orthos, neurologists, etc. own magnets and collect the technical fee and can hire a radiologist for a lesser amount (and make money off them). They can also self refer in lots of states with no repercussions.
 
Without the professional part, you are just paying to radiate the patient.

This is like saying "hospitals (not doctors) bring on money". Well sure, but one doesn't really work without the other
 
Also in some places ortho and ED read their own x rays and dictate them (US for ED docs too). Explain that
 
X rays are easy to read. And OB already showed they can read US themselves.
 
X rays are easy to read. And OB already showed they can read US themselves.

Anyone can read an X-ray and US. Reading them well is a whole different story.
 
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Merritt-Hawkins reported radiology is back in the top 10 of "most in demand" specialties for the first time since 2007.
 
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It's not scientific, to say the least, but I have noticed an uptick in phone inquiries and emails from recruiters seeking radiologists for locums and permanent positions.
 
And humans have shown that for thousands of years they are able to deliver their babies without an OB.

Explain why we need OB's, and maybe you'll reach a similar epiphany about Radiology.

X rays are easy to read. And OB already showed they can read US themselves.
 
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And humans have shown that for thousands of years they are able to deliver their babies without an OB.

Explain why we need OB's, and maybe you'll reach a similar epiphany about Radiology.

Similarly, I smile when ED docs do their own ultrasound. Just like they would smile at EMTs doing field intubations. Medicine is so easy, anyone can do it.
 
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And humans have shown that for thousands of years they are able to deliver their babies without an OB.

Explain why we need OB's, and maybe you'll reach a similar epiphany about Radiology.

are you trying to imply that radiologists are better at OB ultrasound than OBs? 95% of us don't even read post first trimester in practice

Maybe you can get your cardiac cath from the IR department too
 
We could easily be better. We just choose not to. Not worth the risk for the time.
 
1. Radiologists are better than OB at reading OB US. Just this past year I had to overread an OB US that missed a uterine AVM that I was involved in treating as an IR. OB's are so focused on their area of expertise that they don't understand the other pathology on the film.

2. I've worked at 4 different practices and we read 1st trimester US in 3 out of 4 of them. I don't know what the statistic is nationally, but I'll wager there's well over 5% of radiologists reading OB US.

3. IR's are not trained in cardiac cath. There is not a single residency or fellowship program where this is a part of training. Nobody is saying an Orthopod can do a prostatectomy just because they're a surgeon. Quite the opposite. I'm saying radiologists can read films better than anyone because that's the entire basis of their specialty - from physics to anatomy to differentials. They have been trained in it. They are better than any other specialty. And if your residency doesn't/didn't teach you it, then I'm sorry you're at such a bad residency program.


are you trying to imply that radiologists are better at OB ultrasound than OBs? 95% of us don't even read post first trimester in practice

Maybe you can get your cardiac cath from the IR department too
 
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And I'm sure there are plenty examples of OBs finding fetal anomalies missed by radiologists. Your n of 1 example doesn't invalidate the fact that OB dominates second third trimester ob in all but a small minority of practices that are still clinging to it. I can't even believe this is up for debate
 
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Please go troll elsewhere. You're just embarrassing yourself with your inability to follow simple logic.

And I'm sure there are plenty examples of OBs finding fetal anomalies missed by radiologists. Your n of 1 example doesn't invalidate the fact that OB dominates second third trimester ob in all but a small minority of practices that are still clinging to it. I can't even believe this is up for debate
 
@OP: Plenty of work to do. Jobs are coming back. Pay is still pretty good. Hours worked about average for physicians. Weekends and sometimes nights are a part of the deal. Best vacation time in medicine outside of EM.

It's a good field. Unfortunately for whatever reason there are some pretty persistent trolls both here and at Aunt Minnie. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
 
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And I'm sure there are plenty examples of OBs finding fetal anomalies missed by radiologists. Your n of 1 example doesn't invalidate the fact that OB dominates second third trimester ob in all but a small minority of practices that are still clinging to it. I can't even believe this is up for debate

Yeah no.

Had a long post ready but meh.

This is dumb and those reading your posts have lost a small amount of intelligence as a result

Carry on.



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It's called stupidity and taking on liability you don't need

In interventional spine Im looking at backs all day, everyday. Sure sometimes I see something "missed" by a rads, or slightly disagree with findings. I would absolutely never want to look at imaging without a rads report. I know what im looking for and am biased towards that, any unexpected or odd finding and Im immediately out of my element.

Amazing that docs who decry NPs, CRNAs, PAs, midwives, Etc "not knowing what they dont know" can't see the same in themselves.
 
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Interpreting images as a radiologist is not an entitlement, and even as a practicing radiologist, it has to be continually earned. The history of Radiology is littered with examples of exams and procedures that were originated and developed within the field of Radiology and later lost to colleagues who took an interest and excelled. OB US is but one example.

The good thing is that there always seems to be enough work around.
 
Washington's website says the median salary for DR is about 500,000 but on SDN I see a lot of 350-400k estimates. Medscape 2017 says DR average is about 400,000. Is medscape the better one to trust?

Washington also splits clinical from academic salary which might be part of it.

Washington's website: Home
 
Washington's website says the median salary for DR is about 500,000 but on SDN I see a lot of 350-400k estimates. Medscape 2017 says DR average is about 400,000. Is medscape the better one to trust?

Washington also splits clinical from academic salary which might be part of it.

Washington's website: Home

Getting to radiologists salary is challenging because it depends on what you include. If you are including only W-2 earnings, $400-450k is probably a good starting point for partner salary.

What about retirement plan contributions? Add another $37k or so ($17k will probably be 401k and included in the W-2 number).

Imaging center ownership revenue? Anywhere from 0 to hundreds of thousands.

HSAs, travel funds (er, I mean CME funds), define benefit plans, etc.
 
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Getting to radiologists salary is challenging because it depends on what you include. If you are including only W-2 earnings, $400-450k is probably a good starting point for partner salary.

What about retirement plan contributions? Add another $37k or so ($17k will probably be 401k and included in the W-2 number).

Imaging center ownership revenue? Anywhere from 0 to hundreds of thousands.

HSAs, travel funds (er, I mean CME funds), define benefit plans, etc.
Do you know how a radiologists benefits typically compare to other specialties? I don't remember ever seeing data about average benefit packages (except on medscape but it's not broken down by specialty).
 
Do you know how a radiologists benefits typically compare to other specialties? I don't remember ever seeing data about average benefit packages (except on medscape but it's not broken down by specialty).

The short answer is no. That said, radiology groups that are hospital-based tend to operate similar to anesthesiology, pathology, and ER groups (excepting the national ones).
 
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