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Integrated IR and Step 1
- Thread starter Milotic
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Radz123
I don't think anyone knows. Even if you don't get into IR, 230's is plenty good to make it into DR. Just go into an IR fellowship afterwards.
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From what I have been told by some PD's in webinars/meetings the pathway from DR to IR is going to closed out?? I am not sure how true this is, but it seems like IR wants to move towards heavily being integrated, similar to how some of the surgical subspecialties have drifted from the fellowship track through General Surg. Would you happen to know more about integrated IR overshadowing DR-->IR down the line?
Thanks for the response.
There was no specific cut off that they gave. The PDs purposely avoided that as no one truly knows how competitive it is going to be. This year there was a tremendous spike in programs from 3 to 40+ and many more will likely become available as the RRC is apparently looking at programs in September. I personally think 230s should cut it for most programs. You will need to strive to do well on 3rd year rotations (particularly surgery and medicine). They also stated SIR medical student council involvement is very important. The first one is from a resident perspective and the 2nd one is from the IR PD perspective. Radiology residency has become a little less competitive and so that helps things. The premiere IR /DR programs that offer a robust experience such as UVA, U of Michigan, U Penn , MCW etc will be quite competitive. Also, if you do some IR sub-internships and get a strong letter, you can also improve your chances dramatically.
IR fellowships will be phased out in 202o and so the only ways to get into IR are IR/DR integrated, ESIR and one year independent residency or DR and 2 year independent residency. No one knows how many independents will be available. Most programs will likely try to recruit for integrated (speculation).
https://www.youtube.com/user/IRResidents
Good luck
IR fellowships will be phased out in 202o and so the only ways to get into IR are IR/DR integrated, ESIR and one year independent residency or DR and 2 year independent residency. No one knows how many independents will be available. Most programs will likely try to recruit for integrated (speculation).
https://www.youtube.com/user/IRResidents
Good luck
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This was super helpful! Thank you so much. I am part of SIR, but not the student council specifically. I'll be sure to keep talking with my school's dept.
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Radz123
No doubt there will still be ways to get into IR from DR for a long time to come. There's no way we can transition so smoothly into the Residency to afford scrapping IR fellowships all together. Also, I don't think the door into IR from DR will ever completely close, it'll just be a longer training process. Poaching the best and brightest DR residents for IR seems like a good long term game plan in my opinion.
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So If I barely make it over this cutoff (230's) what would be the incentive to interview me as opposed to the other 300 applicants? It sounds like the integrated pathway is going to be incredibly competitive.
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that's why it's a crapshoot. you have literally a couple hundred people with similar scores and you might only interview 1/5 of them. obviously the 250s and 260s are going to get interviewed unless something is weird with their app but below that it can be random. then do you interview someone with a 230 from the area vs a 240 from across the country. etc etc
There will likely be multiple variables evaluated.
Step 1 and 2 scores
AOA status
Class rank
IR research
IR meetings that you not only present at but attend
How early you were involved in IR and SIR
How many IR sub internships you did
Did you get a letter from an IR that other IR program directors can call
Clinical letters (surgery and IM)
This is like a surgical specialty and so the IR attendings are looking for someone who has strong work ethic, interested in patient care , and interested in procedures (working with your hands). They are not looking for the people who are on the fence.
But, the reality is at this point we can truly only speculate what to expect.
I would encourage the trainees to look at the scope and breadth of the IR practice and look at the trainees logs. Also, look to see how much autonomy the trainees gets and at what stage of their residency. You should also look at how comprehensive the training is i.e. (oncology (tace/ablations), vascular (lower extremity arterial, aortic, dvt/PE, varicose veins ), pain (vertebroplasty/kyphoplasty), neurointerventional (stroke, carotids, avms, aneurysms), fibroid therapy, etc). Do they have a busy clinic and how many initial and follow ups the section is seeing weekly. Also, look at how many hospital admissions they are performing yearly. This may be tricky to tease out will be important to see how well you will be trained. You need to come out of an IR residency ready to establish a practice from scratch and that is going to take a strong clinical and technical skill set.
Step 1 and 2 scores
AOA status
Class rank
IR research
IR meetings that you not only present at but attend
How early you were involved in IR and SIR
How many IR sub internships you did
Did you get a letter from an IR that other IR program directors can call
Clinical letters (surgery and IM)
This is like a surgical specialty and so the IR attendings are looking for someone who has strong work ethic, interested in patient care , and interested in procedures (working with your hands). They are not looking for the people who are on the fence.
But, the reality is at this point we can truly only speculate what to expect.
I would encourage the trainees to look at the scope and breadth of the IR practice and look at the trainees logs. Also, look to see how much autonomy the trainees gets and at what stage of their residency. You should also look at how comprehensive the training is i.e. (oncology (tace/ablations), vascular (lower extremity arterial, aortic, dvt/PE, varicose veins ), pain (vertebroplasty/kyphoplasty), neurointerventional (stroke, carotids, avms, aneurysms), fibroid therapy, etc). Do they have a busy clinic and how many initial and follow ups the section is seeing weekly. Also, look at how many hospital admissions they are performing yearly. This may be tricky to tease out will be important to see how well you will be trained. You need to come out of an IR residency ready to establish a practice from scratch and that is going to take a strong clinical and technical skill set.
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All of these things matter, but I wouldn't discount location and fit. Programs typically know that people have strong regional preferences that influence where they match. If you look at radiology residents at California and New York program, at least 50% had some connection with their respective states. Since the Match is an applicant-prioritizing system, I'd wager that the applicants ranked programs in those states higher. Programs are well aware of this, and if half their class historically has some regional connection, it'd be wise to select at least half of their applicants from the pool of applicants from those states. In the absence of location preference, there has to be something else in your application that indicates that you'd be a good fit for their program. Whether it be clinical vs. research interests, a desire to work in community medicine, interests in businesses and industry, there has to be something that makes you fit their program.
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Had a similar recent experience actually. Time for me to "find" a new passion!
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Dude - don't let Naijaba stress you out. His posts stress me out. I don't have a great step 1 by any means, sitting on >5 IR interviews at great programs. Be passionate, research, network. IR is a very small field, all the PDs know each other, so if you can impress them you'll be ok. Don't give up if you really love IR
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Dude Silin is super chill - There is no way he has a hard cut off
would really appreciate those of you who have gotten interviews could please contact me? i feel like my low step score will make program directors overlook my application (strong letters, research, leadership involvement) anyone have any tips or recommendations for a current 3rd year who wants to do IR
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Haha, sorry I didn't mean to stress anyone out! I'm actually a really relaxed person (honestly). I try to be transparent with what I hear to help everyone out. I think programs should be more open about what they look for and what they want. It's a systemic problem that needn't exist, so I try to share as much as I can.
And, yes Dr. Silin is very relaxed. If you like computer science, he's got a lot of good stories from the early days.
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4x that. Lots of people saying certain programs getting 5-700 applicants
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Yale sent out invites for IR/DR. I can tell you that if your step 1 > 225, your app will NOT be screened out (obviously being as general as possible).
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Naijaba and Doctor D are correct in saying around 300 for 120 spots. That in itself is absolutely insane. No need to perpetuate even more crazy rumors.
Step scores are often used as a filter to distinguish through the innumerable applicants. Once through that filter , several other things are considered including IR research, involvement in IR at a local/national level, IR interest groups, SIR etc. Finally on the day of interviews, the residents are looking to see if you would be a good fit from a personality standpoint.
The rationale for a dedicated independent training pathway is to identify and recruit trainees who are primarily interested in the clinical management of patients. The IR lifestyle is much more surgical in nature and the hours are long. Those who chose to do IR should realize what they are getting themselves into and that is why an early involvement in IR is beneficial as are multiple IR sub internships as well as surgical sub internships to showcase a true commitment to what a successful IR practice will require.
It is imperative that you get clinical integration during all years of residency and one of the potential flaws of the IR residency is the limited amount of IR/clinical rotations during PGY2 ,3 and 4. I would consider looking for programs that offer greater clinical integration during those years when picking an IR residency or ESIR program.
The rationale for a dedicated independent training pathway is to identify and recruit trainees who are primarily interested in the clinical management of patients. The IR lifestyle is much more surgical in nature and the hours are long. Those who chose to do IR should realize what they are getting themselves into and that is why an early involvement in IR is beneficial as are multiple IR sub internships as well as surgical sub internships to showcase a true commitment to what a successful IR practice will require.
It is imperative that you get clinical integration during all years of residency and one of the potential flaws of the IR residency is the limited amount of IR/clinical rotations during PGY2 ,3 and 4. I would consider looking for programs that offer greater clinical integration during those years when picking an IR residency or ESIR program.