In a bind. Need advice.

[futdoc251989]

Here's my story in a nutshell. My undergrad GPA is 3.0, science GPA is 2.96. I did the Masters in Biomedical Sciences program at Barry and finished with a GPA of 3.44. I took the MCAT 3 years ago (so the score is about to expire) and scored a 30 (10 BS, 12 PS, 8 VR). Last year, I was in the post-bacc program at LECOM. Below are my grades from the LECOM post-bacc program:

Physiology: B
Anatomy B
Genetics: A
Microbiology: B
Cell Biology: B
Pathology: B
Immunology B
Critical Thinking: B
Biochemistry: B
Intro to Medicine: B
Histology: B
Virology: A
Pharmacology: F (69%)

Because of that F in Pharmacology, I obviously finished the program with less than a 3.0, meaning I didn't get into the osteopathic program since the requirement is for post-bacc students to finish the program with no less than a 3.0.

So now, my MCAT score is expiring in July. Even if I retook the MCAT tomorrow and got a stellar score, if I were to then reapply for the next cycle, the chances of getting a single interview invite would be next to zero. So, what else can I do to improve my application? Is there anything that can be done to mitigate the damage done by the F in Pharmacology? Even before the F, the only interview I have ever gotten was LECOM (because they automatically gave all post-bacc students an interview). In other words, my application was seriously deficient even BEFORE the F in Pharmacolgy. Are my dreams of getting into an Osteopathic school finished? Has the fat lady officially sung? Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

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[QofQuimica]

I'm not the best person to comment about what DO schools would want to see you do to improve your app. But as a faculty and former nontrad applicant myself, I look at your record and see someone who is basically a B student in post bac. You got a couple of As, you got one F, but overall, your record is straight Bs. This is in a post bac program meant as a chance for you to prove that you actually do have what it takes to succeed in medical school after a subpar UG performance. And even without that F, your post bac record would be barely acceptable. So yes, my opinion is that you should at the very least take a long break from premed, because you are clearly not serious about doing what it takes to get into medical school, as evidenced by your post bac performance. A nontrad who was serious about making good on a prior poor college performance and getting into med school would have nearly all As with maybe a couple of Bs, and no Fs, in their post bac.

What to do instead? I'd suggest getting a job and working FT for a while. If and when you decide to get serious about med school, you can always reconsider going back for classes. But right now it's time to stop wasting your time and tuition dollars fooling around, and do something constructive.

 

[futdoc251989]

I partied a lot, procrastinated and yes, fooled around a lot in undergrad. Since I finished my undergrad in 2012, here is what I've been up to.

I studied for the MCAT for about 8 hours a day for 6 months, scoring a 30.
Attended Barry University's Master's in Biomedical Sciences program, where I studied for about 4-5 hours a day (outside of class), finishing the program with a 3.44 GPA.
Attended the post-bacc program at LECOM, where I also studied on average for about 4-5 hours a day outside of class (more on the weekends). In the classes where I got a B, in several of those classes, my final grade was a 88-89%. In other words, a difference of maybe 5 exam questions the entire semester.

Maybe I should of studied for 8-12 hours a day instead of 4-5. But I can assure you that I haven't been "fooling around" these last 3 years. It's impossible to score a 30 on the MCAT by "fooling around". So I'm really only seeing 2 possible explanations as to why I'm not getting more As.

1. Not studying enough (need more hours per day)
2. I'm just not that intelligent

But "fooling around" is most definitely not it.

 

[deleted480308]

Stuff like this is why i never recommend master's level postbacc.....you gave them objective reason to doubt that you can hang.

I don't know what to do now but you should have stayef undergrad and rehabbed that gpa.....a 3.4/3.4/30 would be in medical school right now

 

[futdoc251989]

Stuff like this is why i never recommend master's level postbacc.....you gave them objective reason to doubt that you can hang.

I don't know what to do now but you should have stayef undergrad and rehabbed that gpa.....a 3.4/3.4/30 would be in medical school right now

So are you saying that the adcoms will put more weight into my performance in the LECOM post-bacc than in my performance in Barry's Masters program? The one silver lining that appears to me is that my overall GPA numbers (overall and science) are still more or less the same as before the LECOM post-bacc program. I'll have to recalculate them to verify though.

 

[futdoc251989]

Btw, the courses I took at Barry were pretty much the same courses I took at LECOM. The main difference was that the exam questions at LECOM were much more difficult in that they were like the board exam questions.

 

[deleted480308]

So are you saying that the adcoms will put more weight into my performance in the LECOM post-bacc than in my performance in Barry's Masters program? The one silver lining that appears to me is that my overall GPA numbers (overall and science) are still more or less the same as before the LECOM post-bacc program. I'll have to recalculate them to verify though.

Your barry performance wasn't good enough or you wouldn't have had to go to lecom. Then you had a sub3.0 with a F at lecom....even with those classes being largely repeats. I'm not adcom but I definitely think lecom is a red flag. My school is always on us about how course failures and low gpa predict comlex fails....I don't have an optimistic next step for you, maybe @Goro

 

[futdoc251989]

Since my MCAT score is expiring in July, how long do you think I should take to study for it before I retake it?

 

[Goro]

I cannot recommend medical school. You have had not one but TWO chances to demonstrate that you can handle handle a med school curriculum, and the second go around was even worse.

It is now time for Plan B

Here's my story in a nutshell. My undergrad GPA is 3.0, science GPA is 2.96. I did the Masters in Biomedical Sciences program at Barry and finished with a GPA of 3.44. I took the MCAT 3 years ago (so the score is about to expire) and scored a 30 (10 BS, 12 PS, 8 VR). Last year, I was in the post-bacc program at LECOM. Below are my grades from the LECOM post-bacc program:

Physiology: B
Anatomy B
Genetics: A
Microbiology: B
Cell Biology: B
Pathology: B
Immunology B
Critical Thinking: B
Biochemistry: B
Intro to Medicine: B
Histology: B
Virology: A
Pharmacology: F (69%)

Because of that F in Pharmacology, I obviously finished the program with less than a 3.0, meaning I didn't get into the osteopathic program since the requirement is for post-bacc students to finish the program with no less than a 3.0.

So now, my MCAT score is expiring in July. Even if I retook the MCAT tomorrow and got a stellar score, if I were to then reapply for the next cycle, the chances of getting a single interview invite would be next to zero. So, what else can I do to improve my application? Is there anything that can be done to mitigate the damage done by the F in Pharmacology? Even before the F, the only interview I have ever gotten was LECOM (because they automatically gave all post-bacc students an interview). In other words, my application was seriously deficient even BEFORE the F in Pharmacolgy. Are my dreams of getting into an Osteopathic school finished? Has the fat lady officially sung? Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[futdoc251989]

I cannot recommend medical school. You have had not one but TWO chances to demonstrate that you can handle handle a med school curriculum, and the second go around was even worse.

It is now time for Plan B

What does it take to get As in medical school level coursework? I'm not ready to give up just yet? I've put so much work into this, and came very very close to getting into LECOM. I needed a 3.0 in the LECOM post-bacc program to get into the osteopathic program. I want to know what it is that I'm doing wrong in terms of my study habits and learn from them and fix them. I know I'm capable. Otherwise there's no way I could've scored a 30 on the MCAT 3 years ago.

 

[Goro]

Good work ethic
Good time mgt
Being able to apply, and not merely memorize
Being proactive about their learning, and not merely content to be spoon fed.

At my school students who do poorly in post-bacs flounder in our program. LECOM will be doing you no favors by admitting you.

What does it take to get As in medical school level coursework? I'm not ready to give up just yet? I've put so much work into this, and came very very close to getting into LECOM. I needed a 3.0 in the LECOM post-bacc program to get into the osteopathic program. I want to know what it is that I'm doing wrong in terms of my study habits and learn from them and fix them. I know I'm capable. Otherwise there's no way I could've scored a 30 on the MCAT 3 years ago.

 

[futdoc251989]

Being able to apply, and not merely memorize

How do you practically do this while studying? Do you write your own test questions?

 

[QofQuimica]

I partied a lot, procrastinated and yes, fooled around a lot in undergrad. Since I finished my undergrad in 2012, here is what I've been up to.

I studied for the MCAT for about 8 hours a day for 6 months, scoring a 30.
Attended Barry University's Master's in Biomedical Sciences program, where I studied for about 4-5 hours a day (outside of class), finishing the program with a 3.44 GPA.
Attended the post-bacc program at LECOM, where I also studied on average for about 4-5 hours a day outside of class (more on the weekends). In the classes where I got a B, in several of those classes, my final grade was a 88-89%. In other words, a difference of maybe 5 exam questions the entire semester.

Maybe I should of studied for 8-12 hours a day instead of 4-5. But I can assure you that I haven't been "fooling around" these last 3 years. It's impossible to score a 30 on the MCAT by "fooling around". So I'm really only seeing 2 possible explanations as to why I'm not getting more As.

1. Not studying enough (need more hours per day)
2. I'm just not that intelligent

But "fooling around" is most definitely not it.

Actually, no, it's not "impossible to score a 30 on the MCAT by fooling around." If you are an innately good test-taker, and I'm guessing you are, it's entirely possible to score a 30 MCAT without trying terribly hard. I've been there myself; I got a 34 my first go-round on the MCAT during college without much studying. When I got serious and buckled down as a nontrad applicant a decade later, I scored a 43. What was different the second time? I was committed and willing to do what it took to succeed. At that point, I did not sit back and figure, eh, well, I "only" need a 34 at a lot of schools, so I'll just take the test cold and be fine with whatever score I get. I really wanted to get into medical school at age 30, while I was much more blasé at age 20. And my test scores reflected that.

Again, if you were serious about getting into medical school, your goal would have been to achieve a 4.0 in your post bac coursework, not to try to slide by with a 3.0 bare minimum. A 3.0 is the same level of achievement you were accomplishing all along while you partied your way through college. You already knew that wasn't good enough, which is why you did a post bac in the first place. And if you had tried for a 4.0 post bac GPA and came up short with, say, a 3.8 GPA because you got a B or two, no one would have held that against you. Adcoms don't expect perfection. But they do want to see a consistent demonstration of academic excellence. You have never demonstrated that.

The number of hours you study is far less important than what you do with those hours. If your current study methods are inefficient/ineffective (unclear to me if they are), then your focus needed to be on improving your study habits so that you could get As in your classes. No one here can tell you exactly what you need to do to improve your grades; everyone is different in regard to how they learn best. Some people need a lot more study time than others do, and there's a bit of a trial and error process required in order to adjust to performing well in biomedical science classes. But as you noted yourself, it is not a question of your intelligence, nor of your test-taking ability. Right now you simply don't want this badly enough. And until you're ready and willing to put forth the necessary effort to succeed in medicine, you should find something more constructive to do with your life than continue to take classes with a mediocre performance.

 

[Goro]

Do lots of practice questions, and pimp your friends (and get pimped by them).

You school should have a learning or education center. Go check them out.

How do you practically do this while studying? Do you write your own test questions?

 

[Moose A Moose]

How do you practically do this while studying? Do you write your own test questions?

When you're able to teach the lecture you were provided, not just regurgitate, is when you know you've nailed it.
Think about all the material in a clinical perspective, i.e.: every angle a pathology or mechanism may occur in different situations, etc.

You've put in a lot of work, and you definitely show motivation and potential, so I'd feel remiss in saying you should just "give up" at this juncture.
How would grade replacement factor into this? Have you chatted with LECOM's adcom?

If you want it badly enough, get ready for an extended venture through the application cycle; it looks like you're going to be sitting for the MCAT again.

 

[futdoc251989]

Couple of points that I neglected to mention:

1. I earned a 3.7 GPA in my first year of undergrad. The coursework that year included general biology and chemistry with labs, calculus, english composition, and upper level spanish. So they certainly weren't underwater basket-weaving type courses. Part of the challenge for me is to find out what it is that was working for me back then, what changed, and how can I go back to that level of academic performance. So I don't think that I have to re-invent the wheel.

2. The courses in LECOM's post-bacc program are med school level courses in terms of rigor and are far more challenging than Barry's courses, even though they are the same courses and subject matter. So a 3.0 in LECOM's program would be more like a 3.5 in Barry's program. Not trying to justify my sub-par performance at LECOM, but I do want to put into perspective.

3. As far the MCAT goes, no I'm not a good test taker. It was actually my 2nd attempt on the MCAT where I scored a 30 (only 23 on the 1st). Between the 1st and 2nd attempts, I purchased the Examkracers 1001 series, which gave me tons of practice problems to do. After spending another 2 months of doing those, I was able to score the 30 on my 2nd try. So I think another challenge for me is that most courses don't have practice problems or practice exams, so I have to find a way to make my own practice questions or develop my own unique study method which allows me to get the most repetitive way to "drill" the material into my head.

P.S. @Goro I think you're onto something with the learning center idea. I'll be sure to look into that if/when I get another academic premed opportunity. Thank you all for the helpful advice and suggestions.

 

[futdoc251989]

When you're able to teach the lecture you were provided, not just regurgitate, is when you know you've nailed it.
Think about all the material in a clinical perspective, i.e.: every angle a pathology or mechanism may occur in different situations, etc.

You've put in a lot of work, and you definitely show motivation and potential, so I'd feel remiss in saying you should just "give up" at this juncture.
How would grade replacement factor into this? Have you chatted with LECOM's adcom?

If you want it badly enough, get ready for an extended venture through the application cycle; it looks like you're going to be sitting for the MCAT again.

I talked to a couple of people in LECOM's admissions and they told me to try and nail the MCAT and do something academically (i.e. retake pharmacology online) before reapplying for the next cycle in order to maximize my chances. They won't "replace" the grade, but they said they it will still improve my academic standing in the eyes of the committee.

 

[Goro]

Rule #1: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

You're giving me even more info that you'd flounder in med school. You were's supposed to ace those course, not beese them.

Couple of points that I neglected to mention:

1. I earned a 3.7 GPA in my first year of undergrad. The coursework that year included general biology and chemistry with labs, calculus, english composition, and upper level spanish. So they certainly weren't underwater basket-weaving type courses. Part of the challenge for me is to find out what it is that was working for me back then, what changed, and how can I go back to that level of academic performance. So I don't think that I have to re-invent the wheel.

2. The courses in LECOM's post-bacc program are med school level courses in terms of rigor and are far more challenging than Barry's courses, even though they are the same courses and subject matter. So a 3.0 in LECOM's program would be more like a 3.5 in Barry's program. Not trying to justify my sub-par performance at LECOM, but I do want to put into perspective.

3. As far the MCAT goes, no I'm not a good test taker. It was actually my 2nd attempt on the MCAT where I scored a 30 (only 23 on the 1st). Between the 1st and 2nd attempts, I purchased the Examkracers 1001 series, which gave me tons of practice problems to do. After spending another 2 months of doing those, I was able to score the 30 on my 2nd try. So I think another challenge for me is that most courses don't have practice problems or practice exams, so I have to find a way to make my own practice questions or develop my own unique study method which allows me to get the most repetitive way to "drill" the material into my head.

P.S. @Goro I think you're onto something with the learning center idea. I'll be sure to look into that if/when I get another academic premed opportunity. Thank you all for the helpful advice and suggestions.

 

[futdoc251989]

My intention is not to dig. It's to climb. I'm looking for a ladder.

 

[deleted480308]

My intention is not to dig. It's to climb. I'm looking for a ladder.

intentions are irrelevant...for your own good, take a minute and breathe.....think long and hard about your next step and associated pros and cons. What you thought was a ladder last year ended up being a shovel.......you really can't afford any more shovels

 

[futdoc251989]

But I can learn from this "shovel" experience and turn into a ladder. I've done it before. I nearly flunked out of the 10th grade. But I got serious, learned from my mistakes, and earned nearly straight As for both the 11th and 12th grades. My dad was a big part of why I was able to turn things around. He instilled the necessary discipline that I was lacking prior to the 11th grade. I was able to carry that momentum into my freshmen year of college. But I slipped after I moved away from home the year after my freshmen year of college. I'm in the midst of talking to my dad now, trying to figure out what it is I had during those years when I was acing my classes, and how/why it's missing now. So I know I'm capable of getting As, since I've done it before.

 

[futdoc251989]

Just wanted to provide a quick update:

I'm in the COB program at KCUMB (Masters in Biomedical Sciences). My first semester GPA is a 3.7. I'm planning on taking the MCAT next month. If I score at least a 501, then I'm guaranteed an interview (not admission) at their osteopathic school. I scored a 501 on my diagnostic last month so that gives me hope. I think it's too late in the cycle to apply broadly to other schools (and will be even later when I get my MCAT score), so my thinking is to save my money and not apply anywhere else for this cycle. If I don't get into KCUMB this cycle, then I'll reapply early and broadly for next cycle. Overall, I think it's a great program and I'm glad I found out about it, being that it may be my last realistic shot of getting into med school. Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this thread 8 months ago.

 

[gamieg]

good luck! and happy holidays

 

[QofQuimica]

Just wanted to provide a quick update:

I'm in the COB program at KCUMB (Masters in Biomedical Sciences). My first semester GPA is a 3.7. I'm planning on taking the MCAT next month. If I score at least a 501, then I'm guaranteed an interview (not admission) at their osteopathic school. I scored a 501 on my diagnostic last month so that gives me hope. I think it's too late in the cycle to apply broadly to other schools (and will be even later when I get my MCAT score), so my thinking is to save my money and not apply anywhere else for this cycle. If I don't get into KCUMB this cycle, then I'll reapply early and broadly for next cycle. Overall, I think it's a great program and I'm glad I found out about it, being that it may be my last realistic shot of getting into med school. Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this thread 8 months ago.

Atta girl/boy. That's more like it. Keep up the good work.

 

[Spectreman]

Make sure you do really well next semester too. They'll probably wait to see those grades before making a decision. I'm in a similar situation where the masters program I'm at is going to be my only option. I got a 4.0 (high 90's across the board) and a 501 on my MCAT (crazy hard to study for when you haven't had gen Chem or physics in 10 years and zero psych/soc background). It's been a long, hard struggle for me. This time around I told myself "if I get 4.0's in a year of post back and an SMP, and I'm STILL not good enough, I'll hitchhike to Florida, jump in the ocean and swim to the Caribbean, damn it. I'm GOING to be a physician, and a good one at that."


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[futdoc251989]

2nd update: Accepted yesterday to KCU-COM Joplin campus (taken off the waitlist)! I'm still in shock. It doesn't feel real. Thanks everyone for the support.

 

[CandH23]

ITS LIT. Great job OP

 

[onza]

2nd update: Accepted yesterday to KCU-COM Joplin campus (taken off the waitlist)! I'm still in shock. It doesn't feel real. Thanks everyone for the support.

Congratulations! U should go celebrate.

How did you end up scoring on the MCAT?
Good luck!

 

[futdoc251989]

Congratulations! U should go celebrate.

How did you end up scoring on the MCAT?
Good luck!

I took it twice. The first time (January) I scored a 498. The second time (April) I scored a 509.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Oh sweet!

How was the KCUCOM masters vs the LECOM post bacc in terms of difficulty?

2nd update: Accepted yesterday to KCU-COM Joplin campus (taken off the waitlist)! I'm still in shock. It doesn't feel real. Thanks everyone for the support.

 

[QofQuimica]

2nd update: Accepted yesterday to KCU-COM Joplin campus (taken off the waitlist)! I'm still in shock. It doesn't feel real. Thanks everyone for the support.

Awesome, fantastic! Congrats!