IMG Electives in the US

[geekozoid]

Hello everyone!! I am seeking a list or a place for a list where I can see which medical hospitals will allow for IMGs to apply for clinical rotations. I am seeking this information for NEXT year BUT I'd like to gather this information now. My motivations stems from the fact that many people informed me about the 12-14 month application that needs to be submitted. I am just gathering information for now and will proceed for the exact procedures from my school.

My main interest is more surgical than it is medical for now at least. I am an open minded person, so if I find something I really like I won't mind taking the opportunity.

OH AND ONE MORE THING, Don't tell me that I'm wasting my time/energy/money/etc. for doing a rotation in a specialty type that's "really hard for IMGs to get into" lol I call total bs on that especially if you're not accredited to say things like this. Yes, your neighbor's 3rd cousin twice removed from 3 years ago who was an IMG may have had a hard time, but its just not the case for everyone. (pet peeve rant over) THANKS GUYS!!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[geekozoid]

lol I hate to break it to you but you have a statistically very low chance of matching into a non primary care speciality as an IMG. But hey dont take it from me or my neighbors third cousin, take it from the NRMP match data itself.

Enjoy: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-IMGs-2016.pdf

lolol Can I ask you something? Whats your specialty? Where did you do your residency? Have you applied for residency before? I need some qualifications just for my own sake of curiosity. I understand you gave me these statistics information...packet, and that's greatly appreciated but, I can assure you are making some assumptions about my post and about me. 1) I am NOT going to a Caribbean School, I am sure though I can make this assumption about your post because that's what people tend to think IMMEDIATELY when they see the words "IMG" kind of silly to do that. 2) These statistics are not entirely new to me in the sense that they're not entirely accurate. Many IMG's, for example, do not speak English as their first language making communication, vocabulary, comprehension, etc. weak points in their candidacy. Also, many come from a school that does not prepare them for the Step 1, and without proper guidance, makes it difficult for them to even apply. Students also tend to apply for residency programs with a poor score but no one really, properly explains this to them, which again you're assuming I fall into that category. 3) NOT ALL IMGs are poorly or unqualified students, in fact many of them are just as qualified if not more qualified to get into top residency positions than US graduates. Its a sad an unfortunate truth that programs in the US don't accept IMGs cause they're "not qualified enough" DO YOU REALLY THINK, that out of the 200 some odd countries we have in the world (estimated figure) ALL THE IMGs that stem in this population are unqualified, or unable to get into a decent residency?? Common sense tells me, no, absolutely not. Many IMGs are actually clinically more skilled, trained, and educated than you'd believe or want to accept. 4) Many IMGs that do NOT get accepted, come back the next year and get into a place, its a very common practice. I bet many of the doctors you will work with, or under I suppose, will be an IMG potentially, SPOOKY RIGHT?! 5) Oh and lastly, your post doesn't answer my question, in fact it clearly does the opposite.

These are things not listed purely as my own thoughts, but more so the comments of my superiors who are qualified, board certified, experienced, working physicians. Its funny how each time I encounter this situation its NOT a working physician that tells me its "really hard" but more so inexperienced medical students who've been relying on documents online Sorry about my sarcasm, don't take it personally its just my personality. ANYWAY can we get back to my original question??

 

[geekozoid]

Really?? Not a single person has ANY idea about this topic??

 

[Animalcules]

Really?? Not a single person has ANY idea about this topic??

If you spent half as much energy searching for individual school requirements as you do barking here, you would already be closer to your goal. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[geekozoid]

I'm sorry, but Idk why you make it seem as though I said something to annoy you personally. You seem pretty helpful in other posts similar to this one so why are you telling me something entirely different like to screw off. I will admit that my earlier response was a bit detailed, but it doesn't change the fact of what I said is true. Anyway, that's besides the point entirely, I am just seeking some guidance in a forum where its intentions are to promote discussion and figure out what to do. If I'm asking for this its not meant to hurt/insult anyone, its just to get an idea of what I can do for myself. Is that a bad thing?? And No I'm not barking just cause I said something you don't like/approve.

 

[Shinken]

if you want people to help you, you might try being less confrontational right from the start.

 

[geekozoid]

I'm sorry guys but, I don't think that I was being confrontational. I wasn't trying to give that vibe at all!! In fact, I was trying to do the opposite by just standing up for myself and clarifying some assumptions. I feel that many people assume that an IMG = bad student/poor qualifications, and I just wanted to make it clear that its not true. I was not trying to be mean to anyone or trying to insult any particular person. Just pointing out some facts that should be thought about before just assuming things about IMGs. That's literally all I was trying to do. In fact, I'm an open minded person but I do look into experience as a major guide to making decisions and claims. Also its a fact that IMGs do get into competitive residencies much more than statistics show/prove. Again, not trying to be confrontational, just stating facts.

 

[cluelessmedstudent411]

Global Health Learning Opportunities® (GHLO®)

 

[jrlob91]

I'm sorry guys but, I don't think that I was being confrontational. I wasn't trying to give that vibe at all!! In fact, I was trying to do the opposite by just standing up for myself and clarifying some assumptions. I feel that many people assume that an IMG = bad student/poor qualifications, and I just wanted to make it clear that its not true. I was not trying to be mean to anyone or trying to insult any particular person. Just pointing out some facts that should be thought about before just assuming things about IMGs. That's literally all I was trying to do. In fact, I'm an open minded person but I do look into experience as a major guide to making decisions and claims. Also its a fact that IMGs do get into competitive residencies much more than statistics show/prove. Again, not trying to be confrontational, just stating facts.

What is your factual basis for this statement?

 

[geekozoid]

What is your factual basis for this statement?

My factual basis for this statement is purely out of personal and professional experiences of doctors and specialists I've met purely by chance. Yes, I know this is NOT ideal and not very convincing. But I will try my best to show/tell you as most statistics in the US rely on NRMP resources to get this information. Yet, nonetheless, I will explain so here why I am very confident that its not impossible or as difficult as it may seem.

1) In the town I lived in my entire life, MOST of the doctors that I have run into or attended have graduated as an IMG/FMG. They either graduated from the Carribbean, Pakistan, India, China, Philippines, etc. AND they have established themselves so successfully that they have NATIONAL level organizations focused on improving career opportunities in the US. Many of these same physicians are Cardiologists (inventional and non-interventional), Cardiothoracic surgeons, Oncologists, General Surgeons, Gastroenterologists, and Obs/gyn. Now I don't know EVERY doctor who was an IMG but many of these doctors are soo good at what they do, they're practically known to everyone in our community. Again, ALL IMGs. They did their training in big hospitals too! Like Mayo clinic, Stony Brook Medical, NYU, Columbia, etc. You can go and find them in Cleveland greater area. Even Cleveland Clinic, under their departments, you can find doctors who graduated and completed their residency abroad and finished their board exams before working there as a general surgeon! I know this because I was admitted there for a personal health reason. I even met a Syrian graduate who was a General Surgery resident!!

2) My research experiences allowed me to meet people in the hospital I worked at over the summer at Mount Sinai, in NYC. There my boss/department head was a medical graduate from Ireland. She's a Nephrologist AND her PI for her lab is also a nephrologist sub-specialized in transplant nephrology. He graduated from India, and did his residency and fellowship at Mount Sinai. A vascular surgeon who I worked with was a graduate from the Caribbean!! Heck, even in my undergraduate years, when I worked in my lab, there was a neurosurgeon who also graduated from the Caribbean!!

3) Currently, one of my professors from my school, and Irish med school btw, did his residency at HARVARD in gastroenterology and his brother is now a big time gastroenterologist as well at Cornell who also did his med school education in Ireland and residency in the US at Mayo. In fact, my professor met his wife, ANOTHER IMG, at Harvard who also did a residency program in Obs/gyn. My professor moved back just cause he liked the laxed hours here in Ireland and great career opportunity according to him.

4) I met a Japanese graduate doing residency, just recently, at HSS (Hospital for Special Surgery, in Orthopedic surgery!!

I can go on for days and days and yes, I'm sorry I don't have a statistics sheet/packet to provide. But I am a brutally honest person, maybe a bad thing now that I think about it, but regardless I haven't met these people by actively intentionally searching for them, but rather by coincidence, all of them. I never found any intention to go and search for these people either, we just happened to cross paths. So can you convince someone by statistics if every other person I meet is an IMG in a competitive speciality?? Its more than just chance at this point, its reality. I am being as honest as I can be. Again, I want to emphasize, I'm not saying its easy or a walk in the park for IMGs, but its not THAT hard either. AND in fact, I think its also fair to say that if people gave IMG's a good chance within our new uprising population of doctors, that can change too! (personal opinion) Anyway, I hope this is somewhat convincing?? But if not, idk what else to say. Simply, I just want a list of places guys that will consider me. I'm not trying to argue with anyone here and I'm just trying to live my life. Again, sorry if any of you guys got offended at my initial statement, but its going to take something much more than a statistics sheet to convince me. If you want to talk more about the match stuff in this regards just PM, I'm more than happy to talk there about this stuff. And remember, who knows maybe I do have a chance, maybe I am a decent rare candidate who can make it, why not??

 

[Mikkus]

My factual basis for this statement is purely out of personal and professional experiences of doctors and specialists I've met purely by chance. Yes, I know this is NOT ideal and not very convincing. But I will try my best to show/tell you as most statistics in the US rely on NRMP resources to get this information. Yet, nonetheless, I will explain so here why I am very confident that its not impossible or as difficult as it may seem.

1) In the town I lived in my entire life, MOST of the doctors that I have run into or attended have graduated as an IMG/FMG. They either graduated from the Carribbean, Pakistan, India, China, Philippines, etc. AND they have established themselves so successfully that they have NATIONAL level organizations focused on improving career opportunities in the US. Many of these same physicians are Cardiologists (inventional and non-interventional), Cardiothoracic surgeons, Oncologists, General Surgeons, Gastroenterologists, and Obs/gyn. Now I don't know EVERY doctor who was an IMG but many of these doctors are soo good at what they do, they're practically known to everyone in our community. Again, ALL IMGs. They did their training in big hospitals too! Like Mayo clinic, Stony Brook Medical, NYU, Columbia, etc. You can go and find them in Cleveland greater area. Even Cleveland Clinic, under their departments, you can find doctors who graduated and completed their residency abroad and finished their board exams before working there as a general surgeon! I know this because I was admitted there for a personal health reason. I even met a Syrian graduate who was a General Surgery resident!!

2) My research experiences allowed me to meet people in the hospital I worked at over the summer at Mount Sinai, in NYC. There my boss/department head was a medical graduate from Ireland. She's a Nephrologist AND her PI for her lab is also a nephrologist sub-specialized in transplant nephrology. He graduated from India, and did his residency and fellowship at Mount Sinai. A vascular surgeon who I worked with was a graduate from the Caribbean!! Heck, even in my undergraduate years, when I worked in my lab, there was a neurosurgeon who also graduated from the Caribbean!!

3) Currently, one of my professors from my school, and Irish med school btw, did his residency at HARVARD in gastroenterology and his brother is now a big time gastroenterologist as well at Cornell who also did his med school education in Ireland and residency in the US at Mayo. In fact, my professor met his wife, ANOTHER IMG, at Harvard who also did a residency program in Obs/gyn. My professor moved back just cause he liked the laxed hours here in Ireland and great career opportunity according to him.

4) I met a Japanese graduate doing residency, just recently, at HSS (Hospital for Special Surgery, in Orthopedic surgery!!

I can go on for days and days and yes, I'm sorry I don't have a statistics sheet/packet to provide. But I am a brutally honest person, maybe a bad thing now that I think about it, but regardless I haven't met these people by actively intentionally searching for them, but rather by coincidence, all of them. I never found any intention to go and search for these people either, we just happened to cross paths. So can you convince someone by statistics if every other person I meet is an IMG in a competitive speciality?? Its more than just chance at this point, its reality. I am being as honest as I can be. Again, I want to emphasize, I'm not saying its easy or a walk in the park for IMGs, but its not THAT hard either. AND in fact, I think its also fair to say that if people gave IMG's a good chance within our new uprising population of doctors, that can change too! (personal opinion) Anyway, I hope this is somewhat convincing?? But if not, idk what else to say. Simply, I just want a list of places guys that will consider me. I'm not trying to argue with anyone here and I'm just trying to live my life. Again, sorry if any of you guys got offended at my initial statement, but its going to take something much more than a statistics sheet to convince me. If you want to talk more about the match stuff in this regards just PM, I'm more than happy to talk there about this stuff. And remember, who knows maybe I do have a chance, maybe I am a decent rare candidate who can make it, why not??

While you seem very motivated, there are so many points in here that show just how much you do not know. For instance "residency at HARVARD in gastroenterology"... The general idea that Cleveland clinic matches are amazing!...not always
Saying matching into a competitive residency in the US as an IMG is not as hard as people make it out to be is just not truthful based on a few outlying people you have met. You've met a few success stories, but think about all the failures that are out there that do not get to share their stories.
While you might have a step up compared to a carib grad in terms of your school name, Irish grads are still not considered equal to say an English grad from oxford. You also don't have the 2 years of US experience the Carib promises, which is one of most important aspects to capitalize on when trying to match as an IMG. The fact that you are a us citizen will make programs ask why you didn't stay in the us.
As far as your original question, the best way to find rotation sites is to call each hospital. But know many have been spoken for by those Carib imgs you think so lowly of, after the us MD's and the DO's get their choices.

 

[Animalcules]

You will have a much easier time coming from Ireland than the general FMG. It is still not easy, you need to stand out in terms of scores, research, letters. I can only speak for IM, and certain top places are very friendly to Irish. That doesn't mean that more than a small fraction of the applicants are interviewed for IM residency at Harvard (no such thing, btw, it's MGH, BWH or BIDMC), and an even smaller fraction will match. If you are stellar, have USCE, good research, and connections, it can be done. But you will need to do the digging yourself to figure out where you could go. Often your university may have a partnership with specific institutions in the US. Go that way. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[brabbit2222]

You're right, OP, forget the naysayers, the sky is the limit. You should go for derm, Ortho, maybe ENT. Those US residency programs will see you as far superior candidate to the boring US graduates that you know you are. In fact, i would say that any US experience will weaken you as a candidate. Don't forget to be "brutally honest" at your interviews, people like that and respond to it well.

You have a very good chance to become another living proof that NRMP statistics are far worse than your experience with a handful of so-called "exceptions".