Idaho COM

[giguerex35]

I just want to make sure ICOM still hasn't become available to send applications to, like you can't send them an app yet

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[bears1992]

I just want to make sure ICOM still hasn't become available to send applications to, like you can't send them an app yet

No. You can log into your AACOMAS account and see which schools you can send your app to.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



I beg to differ



Yes, BCOM will turn out alright and RVU produces very well



No. Non-profits are just as much out to help themselves

I can think of 745,928,572 more profitable ways to invest $100 mill. Just sayin.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's an interesting point. Dan Burrell, who funded the school in New Mexico, is also funding ICOM. I wonder what his motives are for backing these schools.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Hi$ motive$ $hould be blatantly obviou$.

Not for profit does NOT mean that you can't make an exorbitant salary by being on the board or whatever of a school, it just means that a school can't have shareholders, per se, that stand to make a profit based on performance. Instead of profiting as per a usual investment, nonprofit schools basically require one to remain an employee of said schools to make money. Brings to mind the many "nonprofit" health systems we have in my area with administrators that make seven figure salaries. Yeah, the business is nonprofit, but the people at the top can still make a killing.

 

[Mad Jack]

I can think of 745,928,572 more profitable ways to invest $100 mill. Just sayin.

Whether it pays off or not depends on the initial investment. But one can make a LOT of money off of a nonprofit system. There is a certain "nonprofit" chain of schools that has hired basically the whole family with $700,000+ salaries, despite their not being worth nearly that. Being a founding member of a nonprofit can create enormous opportunities to make money as both staff and to provide for one's family by bringing them on-board as staff as well.

Let's look at his investment in NM's COM: it's $30 million over 60 years. That's a mere 500k/year. That money is likely invested in a diverse portfolio that is going to make, on the low end, 8% a year, or $2.4 million. Depending on how that portfolio is arranged, he can use those donations to offset earnings, thus lower his estate tax burden, while also using that investment to get himself or his family a position within the school that pays a decent sum (not that he's done this yet, but... you know, if he's like a certain other family...). Between the tax writeoffs and the investment, he's turning a profit while potentially giving a relative or multiple relatives something productive and worthwhile to do. It's a win for everyone, but far from selfless.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

It is amazing that they can open up at the tail-end of the application cycle. Honestly, there should be no new DO schools until everything with the merger is sorted out. What will happen if 10% of DOs don't match, presumably mostly from these new schools? I'd love to hear about how he plans to secure his investment by creating residencies or actually building a hospital. Oh the things that could be accomplished for 'osteopathic' medicine if these schools just built their own hospitals.

 

[BombsAway]

Hi$ motive$ $hould be blatantly obviou$.

Not for profit does NOT mean that you can't make an exorbitant salary by being on the board or whatever of a school, it just means that a school can't have shareholders, per se, that stand to make a profit based on performance. Instead of profiting as per a usual investment, nonprofit schools basically require one to remain an employee of said schools to make money. Brings to mind the many "nonprofit" health systems we have in my area with administrators that make seven figure salaries. Yeah, the business is nonprofit, but the people at the top can still make a killing.

I sorta respect them more for being honest about it. The private not-for-profits all have crazy bloat (as you cited in your examples), so it's not like all the money is either going to the students or to the investors. It's not binary. I interviewed at both RVU campuses and the students were all pretty happy with the dynamic. For example, if they had a problem it was addressed right away because they are basically paying for a service. Which seems like a nice mentality in our modern educational environment.

The only thing that seemed 20% sketchy was that the utah campus built apartments for the students. They are nice and only 50 meters from the school which is either the best or worst thing ever, depending on your personality. However, I wouldn't like the vibe of living in an old school "company town" where they own everything.

 

[giguerex35]

I sorta respect them more for being honest about it. The private not-for-profits all have crazy bloat (as you cited in your examples), so it's not like all the money is either going to the students or to the investors. It's not binary. I interviewed at both RVU campuses and the students were all pretty happy with the dynamic. For example, if they had a problem it was addressed right away because they are basically paying for a service. Which seems like a nice mentality in our modern educational environment.

The only thing that seemed 20% sketchy was that the utah campus built apartments for the students. They are nice and only 50 meters from the school which is either the best or worst thing ever, depending on your personality. However, I wouldn't like the vibe of living in an old school "company town" where they own everything.

So what are the views going to be regarding people who graduate from this school as the first class. I know that there's always going to be that level of uncertainty as to how good the education will be but from the point of view of residencies. Will there be some sort of prejudice against graduates of such a new school making them less likely to match or do you think if you're a good student you'll be fine even if you graduate from such a new school.

 

[DNC127]

So what are the views going to be regarding people who graduate from this school as the first class. I know that there's always going to be that level of uncertainty as to how good the education will be but from the point of view of residencies. Will there be some sort of prejudice against graduates of such a new school making them less likely to match or do you think if you're a good student you'll be fine even if you graduate from such a new school.

As someone from the area, I don't see how the school could produce a quality clinical education. Thats where the prejudice might set in. Similar to RVU Utah... like there is no way they are going to have quality clinical rotations because the big hospital most likely wont let students rotate there.

 

[BombsAway]

So what are the views going to be regarding people who graduate from this school as the first class. I know that there's always going to be that level of uncertainty as to how good the education will be but from the point of view of residencies. Will there be some sort of prejudice against graduates of such a new school making them less likely to match or do you think if you're a good student you'll be fine even if you graduate from such a new school.

I mean, RVU-CO has graduated several classes. I've been treated by one of their graduates before. They have good board scores and solid matches for a DO school, so i don't think the profit model has much to do with that side of things.

 

[giguerex35]

As someone from the area, I don't see how the school could produce a quality clinical education. Thats where the prejudice might set in. Similar to RVU Utah... like there is no way they are going to have quality clinical rotations because the big hospital most likely wont let students rotate there.

Any reason why you think the big hospitals won't let them rotate there

 

[deleted600623]

As someone from the area, I don't see how the school could produce a quality clinical education. Thats where the prejudice might set in. Similar to RVU Utah... like there is no way they are going to have quality clinical rotations because the big hospital most likely wont let students rotate there.

There are 2 big hospitals in the Boise area where ICOM will be located. I highly doubt either of those two major hospitals will deny clinical rotations to medical students given the VAST amount of shortage of physicians in the state of Idaho. Residency is a different story but there will be plenty of opportunities for quality clinical education. There are also 2 residency programs (IM and FM) that I recall so the teaching ability is there.

 

[DNC127]

There are 2 big hospitals in the Boise area where ICOM will be located. I highly doubt either of those two major hospitals will deny clinical rotations to medical students given the VAST amount of shortage of physicians in the state of Idaho. Residency is a different story but there will be plenty of opportunities for quality clinical education. There are also 2 residency programs (IM and FM) that I recall so the teaching ability is there.

Those hospitals are ran by big corporations that run most the HC in utah/idaho. Not state ran for the most part. Highly doubt students will rotate there. 10/10 would not attend unless it was my only acceptance.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

There was a medical school that opened up late in the cycle (I think it was in California) and they had almost Caribbean like stats for their first class. I imagine if Idaho opens up around October-November then they will seriously suffer from a lack of qualified applications because:

a) most the good applicants have been accepted already
b) brand new school
c) undesirable location
d) DO school

They are going to have a rough time filling their class with decent applicants, especially if they are going to have a heavy regional bias like they say.

Idaho is a very desireable location!
The confierous Forest nearby just makes me smile.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

As someone from the area, I don't see how the school could produce a quality clinical education. Thats where the prejudice might set in. Similar to RVU Utah... like there is no way they are going to have quality clinical rotations because the big hospital most likely wont let students rotate there.

For those who want to practice rural, wouldn't rural rotations be effective? Also how important is clinical education? From what I've seen, board scores, research, etc. Are most important to residency programs, not the quality of your psych rotation.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

Whether it pays off or not depends on the initial investment. But one can make a LOT of money off of a nonprofit system. There is a certain "nonprofit" chain of schools that has hired basically the whole family with $700,000+ salaries, despite their not being worth nearly that. Being a founding member of a nonprofit can create enormous opportunities to make money as both staff and to provide for one's family by bringing them on-board as staff as well.

Let's look at his investment in NM's COM: it's $30 million over 60 years. That's a mere 500k/year. That money is likely invested in a diverse portfolio that is going to make, on the low end, 8% a year, or $2.4 million. Depending on how that portfolio is arranged, he can use those donations to offset earnings, thus lower his estate tax burden, while also using that investment to get himself or his family a position within the school that pays a decent sum (not that he's done this yet, but... you know, if he's like a certain other family...). Between the tax writeoffs and the investment, he's turning a profit while potentially giving a relative or multiple relatives something productive and worthwhile to do. It's a win for everyone, but far from selfless.

This is a for profit system and his family is already beyond loaded. This guy is also not investing all his money in portfolios, he is like the biggest real estate guy in NM. He's also in the mining/energy business where there are lots of $$$ to be realized. I guess I just don't personally believe his motivations are purely monetary. I think he is gonna run for office and is basically buying/building influence in different industries.

 

[Mad Jack]

This is a for profit system and his family is already beyond loaded. This guy is also not investing all his money in portfolios, he is like the biggest real estate guy in NM. He's also in the mining/energy business where there are lots of $$$ to be realized. I guess I just don't personally believe his motivations are purely monetary. I think he is gonna run for office and is basically buying/building influence in different industries.

And I'm saying I still bet it's got some ulterior financial motivation that makes it at least revenue neutral.

 

[bears1992]

This is a for profit system and his family is already beyond loaded. This guy is also not investing all his money in portfolios, he is like the biggest real estate guy in NM. He's also in the mining/energy business where there are lots of $$$ to be realized. I guess I just don't personally believe his motivations are purely monetary. I think he is gonna run for office and is basically buying/building influence in different industries.

Every school is going to try and wow you into thinking they are the best. Clearly BCOM is going to say anything they can to convince their applicants that the for-profit status means nothing. I would place very little weight into anything BCOM told you. I just interviewed at a school that spent 1 hour telling us why they had the best curriculum of any school. They kept talking about their amazing COMLEX 1 pass rates and all the applicants I talked to felt like they had a great chance of success at that school. I looked up the COMLEX 2 and 3 pass rates and they are atrocious. The school gave a passionate presentation about why they have poured money into making the best curriculum and showed us how successful their students are. If I didn't look up their other stats, I would have bought their speech.

Take anything a school says to you in an interview with skepticism. They are trying to sell you on their school and are going to either not present bad data and/or spin aspects of that school into a positive. If I would have attended my BCOM in interview, I imagine they would have said something along the lines of "Dan Burrell is extremely passionate about the under-severed in our community. He has been very successfully financially in his life and now he is giving back to his community." It's a bunch of BS if you ask me. Not saying the school is going to be bad (RVU has some of the best pass rates for DO schools), I'm just saying the speech they give their applicants is BS. Philanthropists don't go around and open for-profit schools. That's something businessmen do to make money.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Every school is going to try and wow you into thinking they are the best. Clearly BCOM is going to say anything they can to convince their applicants that the for-profit status means nothing. I would place very little weight into anything BCOM told you. I just interviewed at a school that spent 1 hour telling us why they had the best curriculum of any school. They kept talking about their amazing COMLEX 1 pass rates and all the applicants I talked to felt like they had a great chance of success at that school. I looked up the COMLEX 2 and 3 pass rates and they are atrocious. The school gave a passionate presentation about why they have poured money into making the best curriculum and showed us how successful their students are. If I didn't look up their other stats, I would have bought their speech.

Take anything a school says to you in an interview with skepticism. They are trying to sell you on their school and are going to either not present bad data and/or spin aspects of that school into a positive. If I would have attended my BCOM in interview, I imagine they would have said something along the lines of "Dan Burrell is extremely passionate about the under-severed in our community. He has been very successfully financially in his life and now he is giving back to his community." It's a bunch of BS if you ask me. Not saying the school is going to be bad (RVU has some of the best pass rates for DO schools), I'm just saying the speech they give their applicants is BS. Philanthropists don't go around and open for-profit schools. That's something businessmen do to make money.

Which school was that? Haha

 

[bears1992]

I don't want to give specifics but it starts with a T and ends in ouro NY. Not trashing the school as they did have great COMLEX 1 pass rates among other things. Just an example of how applicants shouldn't give too much weight into a school's presentation.

 

[DNC127]

For those who want to practice rural, wouldn't rural rotations be effective? Also how important is clinical education? From what I've seen, board scores, research, etc. Are most important to residency programs, not the quality of your psych rotation.

Lol. If you wanna pay 50k a for a 3rd year full of glorified shadowing I guess clinical rotations dont matter.... I would never want to train in that setting though.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

For those who want to practice rural, wouldn't rural rotations be effective?

Lol, no.

 

[MTRN406]

As long as the AOA keeps handing out accreditation, this will keep happening. You are going to see a bunch of new schools pop up every so many years with poor rotations and even worse residency prospects. The flaw is in the way osteopathic medical education is set up. A school just has to be able to offer the first two years of classroom training, before the students are left to fend for themselves at countless places across the country. So, the only thing a DO school really needs to exist is a warehouse type building somewhere. It is going to get to the point where all the basic science and theory courses are online, and then you show up at some joint in a strip mall somewhere to do the anatomy lab. This could never happen with an LCME accredited institution, because of the requirement that they have an affiliated teaching hospital.

 

[deleted600623]

@MTRN406 One of the biggest reasons they're popping up everywhere is the primary care shortage in this country. One of the main reasons for that? Insane student debt with bottom feeder salaries.

 

[MTRN406]

@MTRN406 One of the biggest reasons they're popping up everywhere is the primary care shortage in this country. One of the main reasons for that? Insane student debt with bottom feeder salaries.

I think it's more simple than that. The reason they're popping up everywhere is because they can. People know that it doesn't take much to get one up and running (it should take way more than two years to go from conception of an idea on paper to actually admitting students in a physical facility). These things are cash cows for the people who start them. Why don't we see more MD institutions popping up if the goal is to create more primary care providers? Because they can't. The things they have to do to become legit simply cannot be done so cheaply and in such a short amount of time.

I think it's quite telling that all the new schools that are starting are either stand alone schools, or are affiliated with colleges that nobody outside a 100 mile radius of the school has heard of. Do you think Lincoln Memorial University or Campbell University or Incarnate Word could have started an MD institution if they had wanted to? Of course not.

Notice how well-established, well known universities don't want anything to do with the osteopathic explosion. I mean, why don't we see good schools that don't have medical schools starting up their own osteopathic programs? Say the University of Georgia College of Osteopathic Medicine at Athens or even Troy University College of Osteopathic Medicine? If it was a way to help out with the shortage of primary care physicians, you would think that schools like that would want to make a name for themselves and add to their prestige by doing so. After the four public schools (MSU, OSU, Rowan, and WV) were started at about the same time, no other decent university has wanted to touch these things with a 10 foot pole. There is a reason well respected universities without medical schools avoid osteopathic schools like the plague. The only one I can think of starting in the next few years is Sam Houston State.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

because of the requirement that they have an affiliated teaching hospital.

So this actually isn't a requirement. MD schools are not required to have a teaching hospital.

Why don't we see more MD institutions popping up if the goal is to create more primary care providers?

Actually we do, the growth of DO schools has mirrored MD schools almost exactly.