I wanted to see how real the pharmacy job market situation was so...

[impatientcollegestudent]

I spoke with a few pharmacists a few months ago about the market and they all told me the same thing...it was terrible. But I saw that there were still people on sdn that didn't really believe it and I went ahead and spoke with new fresh graduates myself. I knew a few in the east coast area and caught up with them. It's been about 6 months to a year since they graduated and they still don't have an actual job. They're floating and working two part times at different locations each. They said their schools were begging the students to try for residency because that was the only way to find anything at all, and only a few students from each of their classes got into residency programs! I let them know that I did my research and I knew what was going on. They were seriously regretting a lot of things. Its crazy that the job market perspective is the same form professional pharmacist old timers and the new graduates themselves...schools are trying to hide all this from prospective students and a few schools apparently go on and off of probations periodically. People need to talk about this more! This is a serious issue and I see every now and then on sdn that people are still asking about their chances to get in, those with no bachelors, those with super low gpas, you would never see threads like this up to this caliber on the medical student or PA forums, because those are still legit! Please open your eyes guys...

P.S. they were warning about the schools in the east coast areas( where they went to). It's impossible to find a job in the cities now and if your still considering it, at least don't go to the most saturated cities which include New York (impossible now), cities in California too, whole east coast schools are pointless now is what the graduates I spoke to think.

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[AHossain]

It's sad I can't really even argue against any of this. I've heard and seen all these claims before too...sigh. Obv people aren't making this up either...people from all over are seeing this same thing happen. Definitely has some to a lot of truth behind it. Especially considering the recent threads about applicants and their "poor" stats...


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[Apples2Oranges]

simple. pursue something else. 1/3 of the recent graduating class at my school got residencies and the rest got a job in retail. 17% didn't have a position. Now I still feel that it's not very good, but more people have it worse.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Many pre-pharms have already built up the momentum toward pharmacy and do not want to stop from going that route. To cope, they either deny that saturation is actually occurring, or think that they're heaven's gift to pharmacy and that saturation won't affect them.

One analogy would be pre-pharms in a car heading straight for a brick wall. The smart thing to do would be to turn the car around or even jump prior to the impact, but they're either 1) looking down at their phones and not seeing the brick wall approaching, or 2) they can somehow crash through the brick wall and emerge victorious.

 

[UGAZ]

If you want to know how bad or good the job market where you live is, it is not that hard. All you have to do is picking up the phone and start calling around for jobs. Call Walgreens District managers....say you're a licensed pharmacist looking for work and see what they say. That's all. Same goes with hospitals. If they show no interest or ask you to fax resume and then you hear nothing...that is a very bad sign.
Pharmacy is super saturated now. Please don't do it...

 

[Nguyen2017]

I'm so surprised many students are so eager to start pharmacy schools and classes are filled.
Some graduates say if you're not picky, you're fine meaning you'll find a job.

 

[RandomDuck]

This exact thing happened to my friends in pharmacy school. They're all regretting so many things now, and are still in huge amounts of debt...two even went back to living with their parents.

 

[AHossain]

This exact thing happened to my friends in pharmacy school. They're all regretting so many things now, and are still in huge amounts of debt...two even went back to living with their parents.

Damn...


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[axelz165]

I applaud you for actually speaking with pharmacists and getting some info on something you were about to put 4 years and $200k into. I wish I had the brains you did 4 years ago.

 

[TheFlowerGuy]

I hope the people in this thread and more don't apply to Pharmacy schools.
It's great you guys but it helps us out who are in the program now to find a job.

Thanks and good luck in whatever careers you go into!

 

[impatientcollegestudent]

^ Wow how depressing is that... says a lot about the profession now especially coming from an actual student...

 

[impatientcollegestudent]

If you want to know how bad or good the job market where you live is, it is not that hard. All you have to do is picking up the phone and start calling around for jobs. Call Walgreens District managers....say you're a licensed pharmacist looking for work and see what they say. That's all. Same goes with hospitals. If they show no interest or ask you to fax resume and then you hear nothing...that is a very bad sign.
Pharmacy is super saturated now. Please don't do it...

I went ahead and did just that today morning. It looks like nothing is available or they just want me to call back again later. My graduate friends told me when they were job hunting earlier this year, they discovered that there were hundreds of applications for one position, even if it was in the "middle of nowhere." They heard of head pharmacists complaining that there are just way too many to fill just one position and that they apparently just throw so many apps out at the end of the day.

 

[AHossain]

I went ahead and did just that today morning. It looks like nothing is available or they just want me to call back again later. My graduate friends told me when they were job hunting earlier this year, they discovered that there were hundreds of applications for one position, even if it was in the "middle of nowhere." They heard of head pharmacists complaining that there are just way too many to fill just one position and that they apparently just throw so many apps out at the end of the day.

Yea there are lots of threads in the pharmacy forum itself that talk about the whole thousands of applicants for one job position issue too... =\


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[impatientcollegestudent]

It's truly terrifying

 

[AHossain]

Sigh


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[RandomDuck]

This thread can save a lot of people a lot of money and time...


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[AHossain]

I'm very concerned too now

 

[impatientcollegestudent]

This thread can save a lot of people a lot of money and time...


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Yup....believe me, I used to be lot of these students here positing about how to get in, but there were so many things on sdn that swayed me away that I did my own digging and found every single claim to be true...there's even an actual scientific study on the dropping market for pharmacists done recently on NCBI...and the labor statistics dropped below national average.....like wtf...people seriously need to open their eyes and save themselves from all the debt they're going to go through...there are even real YouTube pharmacy students and pharmacists who claim all the things I read on sdn and from other places...is so bad man sigh. It's sick what schools are even doing to literally take just about anyone at this point...

 

[quickpic007]

Yup....believe me, I used to be lot of these students here positing about how to get in, but there were so many things on sdn that swayed me away that I did my own digging and found every single claim to be true...there's even an actual scientific study on the dropping market for pharmacists done recently on NCBI...and the labor statistics dropped below national average.....like wtf...people seriously need to open their eyes and save themselves from all the debt they're going to go through...there are even real YouTube pharmacy students and pharmacists who claim all the things I read on sdn and from other places...is so bad man sigh. It's sick what schools are even doing to literally take just about anyone at this point...

its good you realize sooner than later, I was a technician in 2005, seen the big sign on bonuses first hand, 40K plus. Even as recent as 2014 still good sign ons. 2017 not so much. From what I hear it is too darn easy to get accepted nowadays.

 

[AHossain]

Signs on don't exist in the entire east coast anymore, same for west coast cities. Never hear about them, they're long gone....

 

[Apples2Oranges]

People shouldn't go into pharmacy thinking it'd be a lucrative career like it once was. Good pay? Possibly, relative to the majority of the population in the US. But the debt is tremendous. I shiver every time I hear about my loans, even though it'll be in the low $100k when I'm done...and people take out $150-200k just for tuition I'm jealous of the kids whose state schools are only $10-15k/yr. If it was that cheap, I wouldn't feel so bad.

Unless you like floating, have great connections or plan part-time, then pharmacy is not where people should pursue right now. So annoying when my classmates think they'll make bank after pharm school. At least they go to a 'top 10' accredited school with decent connections. NC just got a brand spanking new HPU pharmacy. Pisses me the heck off. They're also planning a PA and DPT school. So I guess other private schools will start to do the same.

 

[impatientcollegestudent]

Damn....

 

[Nguyen2017]

its good you realize sooner than later, I was a technician in 2005, seen the big sign on bonuses first hand, 40K plus. Even as recent as 2014 still good sign ons. 2017 not so much. From what I hear it is too darn easy to get accepted nowadays.

2014 still good? No wonder class of 2020 and 2021 are still filled.
That means students started pre-pharmacy in 2015 were not aware of the bad job market yet.
I hope whoever wanted to start pre-pharm in 2016 and this year would all change their minds. And most pharmacy schools will be out of business starting 2020 or so...

 

[quickpic007]

People shouldn't go into pharmacy thinking it'd be a lucrative career like it once was. Good pay? Possibly, relative to the majority of the population in the US. But the debt is tremendous. I shiver every time I hear about my loans, even though it'll be in the low $100k when I'm done...and people take out $150-200k just for tuition I'm jealous of the kids whose state schools are only $10-15k/yr. If it was that cheap, I wouldn't feel so bad.

Unless you like floating, have great connections or plan part-time, then pharmacy is not where people should pursue right now. So annoying when my classmates think they'll make bank after pharm school. At least they go to a 'top 10' accredited school with decent connections. NC just got a brand spanking new HPU pharmacy. Pisses me the heck off. They're also planning a PA and DPT school. So I guess other private schools will start to do the same.

Depending on where you want to land, RN is a much better deal in 2017, even for associates degree. Maybe NC salaries are low for RN, but I constantly hear 60K starting and 80K within a few years for associates degree (tuition under 12K total).

2014 still good? No wonder class of 2020 and 2021 are still filled.
That means students started pre-pharmacy in 2015 were not aware of the bad job market yet.
I hope whoever wanted to start pre-pharm in 2016 and this year would all change their minds. And most pharmacy schools will be out of business starting 2020 or so...

Nah it was already souring in 2009 when I started RX school. There will always be a student to fill the seat, just a matter of how hard the school recruiters work. It really is a shame.

 

[Apples2Oranges]

Depending on where you want to land, RN is a much better deal in 2017, even for associates degree. Maybe NC salaries are low for RN, but I constantly hear 60K starting and 80K within a few years for associates degree (tuition under 12K total).



Nah it was already souring in 2009 when I started RX school. There will always be a student to fill the seat, just a matter of how hard the school recruiters work. It really is a shame.

Nursing is a better deal than most college degrees if you can handle the work. Most people I know in nursing have gotten jobs somewhere, but most aren't full time. There's just more versatility in nursing, which is why it's not extremely saturated...despite nearly every college having a nursing program. Every. darn. one.

 

[AHossain]

Nursing is a better deal than most college degrees if you can handle the work. Most people I know in nursing have gotten jobs somewhere, but most aren't full time. There's just more versatility in nursing, which is why it's not extremely saturated...despite nearly every college having a nursing program. Every. darn. one.

I've been thinking about nursing, I hear a lot of people who went the nursing route instead are doing great now


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[impatientcollegestudent]

I've been thinking about nursing, I hear a lot of people who went the nursing route instead are doing great now


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That's exactly what I'm looking into doing now too. I am thinking of considering PA or PT as well.

 

[nonizondi]

• I've been thinking about nursing, I hear a lot of people who went the nursing route instead are doing great now

 

[nonizondi]

I've been thinking about nursing, I hear a lot of people who went the nursing route instead are doing great now


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nursing is not the holy grail people make it seem to be unless you are white or phillipino... I know many nurses that have lost their license from little things. the racism and backstabbing that goes on in that profession is unimaginable..

 

[Nguyen2017]

nursing is not the holy grail people make it seem to be unless you are white or phillipino... I know many nurses that have lost their license from little things. the racism and backstabbing that goes on in that profession is unimaginable..

Wow!!!
One person told me about mean colleague when she worked at UCSF and I didn't believe that

 

[impatientcollegestudent]

nursing is not the holy grail people make it seem to be unless you are white or phillipino... I know many nurses that have lost their license from little things. the racism and backstabbing that goes on in that profession is unimaginable..

Yea better than having no job


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[PharmtoCS]

Nursing can be worse than retail pharmacy in that you have to deal with understaffing and angry/annoying patients demanding their narcotics all the time with the addition of having to deal with bodily fluids and more backstabbing by coworkers/management.

I would recommend computer science or coding bootcamp instead. The work environment is much better, as many tech companies also offer amenities such as compensated catered meals, on-site gym and laundry, employee shuttles, don't have to deal with the general public, etc. whereas as a pharmacist or nurse you might be lucky to even get a bathroom break. The pay is also excellent for a degree that requires you to take out a much smaller amount in loans. Demand for software engineers / computer programmers is still sky high.

 

[RandomDuck]

I have two nurse colleagues who were considering pharmacy before they did nursing...all I can tell you now is that they regret nothing, while my pharmacy friends regret just about everything and had very low marks in school with me.

 

[quickpic007]

Nursing can be worse than retail pharmacy in that you have to deal with understaffing and angry/annoying patients demanding their narcotics all the time with the addition of having to deal with bodily fluids and more backstabbing by coworkers/management.

I would recommend computer science or coding bootcamp instead. The work environment is much better, as many tech companies also offer amenities such as compensated catered meals, on-site gym and laundry, employee shuttles, don't have to deal with the general public, etc. whereas as a pharmacist or nurse you might be lucky to even get a bathroom break. The pay is also excellent for a degree that requires you to take out a much smaller amount in loans. Demand for software engineers / computer programmers is still sky high.

What kind of salaries have you heard straight out of bootcamp? I hear no more than 80K usually and barely 60% of class gets offer at graduation. Still great odds but my understanding is there are just too many qualified Junior Developers now days.

 

[Apples2Oranges]

Nursing can go either way and it depends on which department you are in. Let's say if you went into med surg, ICU or L&D, you're in for some hell. You cannot argue with me nor the nurses that dealing with people's crap in one of the worst scenarios of their lives is any better than dispensing 700 meds/day at a busy CVS. So unless you go into a decent field of nursing or plan on NP, nursing is not much better. In reality, would you like being splattered with sick people's body fluids and be deemed less credible than the avg doctor?

If you want a good quality of life and good pay without crap, don't even pursue healthcare. You have a few options:
1) Dentistry
2) PA in a specialized field
3) MD/DO in a specialized field
4) Maybe PT or even podiatry? Optometry if you're lucky?

The pharmacists I've spoken with quite enjoy their line of work. Either that or they're indifferent. Let's not talk crap about the field itself. Pharmacy was a great field. What's ruining it is the sprouting of pharmacy schools.

 

[BlackDiamond277]

Signs on don't exist in the entire east coast anymore, same for west coast cities. Never hear about them, they're long gone....

Where I live in the South/Central US there are still sign-on bonuses. Walgreens gives $20,000 for a 2 year contract. Most of the new grads take it, if they can.

 

[AHossain]

Where I live in the South/Central US there are still sign-on bonuses. Walgreens gives $20,000 for a 2 year contract. Most of the new grads take it, if they can.

Yea it's just too bad everyone thinks they can go live on the east coast or west coast cities. Majority of students see unrealistic expectations of living there and they don't even think about the Midwest states to go for a living. There literally are no jobs in the east coast/west anymore. If there are...you bet there are thousands of applicants for that one position.


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[RandomDuck]

Yea it's just too bad everyone thinks they can go live on the east coast or west coast cities. Majority of students see unrealistic expectations of living there and they don't even think about the Midwest states to go for a living. There literally are no jobs in the east coast/west anymore. If there are...you bet there are thousands of applicants for that one position.


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One of my buddies is planning on moving to the Midwest now actually to even find a job! How freaking depressing is that? Seriously living your whole life somewhere you're comfortable doing a 4 year degree and paying huge amounts of cash just so that when you graduate, you can't even find employment...and at this point people are literally being forced to move to other areas. I don't think people realize how hard it is to actually situate and settle somewhere else for a job. They say oh just move like it's easy. I've had enough of pharmacy schools and their low key ways of reeling in uninformed and uneducated students about the field. This is flat out atrocious!

 

[AHossain]

One of my buddies is planning on moving to the Midwest now actually to even find a job! How freaking depressing is that? Seriously living your whole life somewhere you're comfortable doing a 4 year degree and paying huge amounts of cash just so that when you graduate, you can't even find employment...and at this point people are literally being forced to move to other areas. I don't think people realize how hard it is to actually situate and settle somewhere else for a job. They say oh just move like it's easy. I've had enough of pharmacy schools and their low key ways of reeling in uninformed and uneducated students about the field. This is flat out atrocious!

This is deeply depressing...


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[impatientcollegestudent]

One of my buddies is planning on moving to the Midwest now actually to even find a job! How freaking depressing is that? Seriously living your whole life somewhere you're comfortable doing a 4 year degree and paying huge amounts of cash just so that when you graduate, you can't even find employment...and at this point people are literally being forced to move to other areas. I don't think people realize how hard it is to actually situate and settle somewhere else for a job. They say oh just move like it's easy. I've had enough of pharmacy schools and their low key ways of reeling in uninformed and uneducated students about the field. This is flat out atrocious!

It's disgusting what pharmacy schools try to do reel students in like fish in a pond. Extending deadlines to over 4 months? Yup. Lowering standards to 2.0? Yup. Flat out lying on their sites about job prospects? Yup. Cmon guys, open your damn eyes...and see what they're doing here

 

[AHossain]

It's disgusting what pharmacy schools try to do reel students in like fish in a pond. Extending deadlines to over 4 months? Yup. Lowering standards to 2.0? Yup. Flat out lying on their sites about job prospects? Yup. Cmon guys, open your damn eyes...and see what they're doing here

The pharmacy graduates I know are very aware about this too and they're all deciding to keep on living with their parents and are applying to several part time jobs just to float


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[Jhunter]

Nursing can go either way and it depends on which department you are in. Let's say if you went into med surg, ICU or L&D, you're in for some hell. You cannot argue with me nor the nurses that dealing with people's crap in one of the worst scenarios of their lives is any better than dispensing 700 meds/day at a busy CVS. So unless you go into a decent field of nursing or plan on NP, nursing is not much better. In reality, would you like being splattered with sick people's body fluids and be deemed less credible than the avg doctor?

If you want a good quality of life and good pay without crap, don't even pursue healthcare. You have a few options:
1) Dentistry
2) PA in a specialized field
3) MD/DO in a specialized field
4) Maybe PT or even podiatry? Optometry if you're lucky?

The pharmacists I've spoken with quite enjoy their line of work. Either that or they're indifferent. Let's not talk crap about the field itself. Pharmacy was a great field. What's ruining it is the sprouting of pharmacy schools.

I hear a lot of people going into CRNA and doing pretty damn well. What do you think about the field?

 

[pharmasaurusRex17]

If you're passionate about the field of pharmacy, and willing to work hard, and really pull on the chances that come at you, then yes I think pharmacy is fine. However, if you're going to school for pharmacy just for the money (a lot of the international students at MCP Boston and many that the parents pushed into them), do not go to pharmacy school. Do what you love to do, not just for the money or for the parents. Yes, the market is tight, but with the hard work and all the stacked up activities, research, whatevers, you will end up with either a job, residency, fellowship, or whatever you are looking for.

... and by hard work, I mean, you will work. -_-.

But yes, some of my friends have switched. While others have switched into pharmacy. It really depends on what you truly love. Yes I've posted on other threads in the forums, but this is ultimately what I've been trying to say: Only go into it, if you really love what you do. Because if you love what you do, you will make it rewarding for yourself and the field will still look amazing to you regardless of what others say. Because, well... you love it. Duh ^^

 

[Pharmnomenal Health]

If you're passionate about the field of pharmacy, and willing to work hard, and really pull on the chances that come at you, then yes I think pharmacy is fine. However, if you're going to school for pharmacy just for the money (a lot of the international students at MCP Boston and many that the parents pushed into them), do not go to pharmacy school. Do what you love to do, not just for the money or for the parents. Yes, the market is tight, but with the hard work and all the stacked up activities, research, whatevers, you will end up with either a job, residency, fellowship, or whatever you are looking for.

... and by hard work, I mean, you will work. -_-.

But yes, some of my friends have switched. While others have switched into pharmacy. It really depends on what you truly love. Yes I've posted on other threads in the forums, but this is ultimately what I've been trying to say: Only go into it, if you really love what you do. Because if you love what you do, you will make it rewarding for yourself and the field will still look amazing to you regardless of what others say. Because, well... you love it. Duh ^^

Well said and I completely agree with you.I didn't really internalize this until my 4th year in pharmacy school.

But yes, for those who are considering the field. Take some time off to think, reflect, and debate if this is what you want to do as a career. Once you start working, you'll either realize if you enjoy the thing you're doing or you don't, don't wait for that until you get to that point. Do some soul searching now.

Best wishes on your endeavors.