I want to be a LGBT Therapist, do I need a PsyD?

[yesthisiswene]

I am almost done with my BA in Psychology, with a minor in Neuroscience and Women's, Gender & Sexuality Studies. Busy schedule, I know.

My next step is getting a Masters, which is where I'm second-guessing what I should do. I want to be an LGBT Therapist with, preferably, no research involvement, just helping people in the LGBT community. I've looked at getting a MA in Clinical Psychology (LGBT-Affirmative Psychology specific program), but that specific program is only offered in California, and I live in Ohio. I'd move if I have to, but I really love the idea of the program altogether.

However, I've been questioning whether getting a PsyD is really worth it. I've read that to be able to practice independently, I'd have to get a MSW, which I do not like social work at all so its concerning to me. In the long-run, I want to own a private practice, where I still see people for therapy. I'll have a BA in Psychology so what should I pursue?

I guess my question is: what degree should I get? I want to see specifically LGBT clients and be their therapist. I want to work independently as a therapist, but it be alright to work for a company for a little bit, until I build a large clientele for myself to work solo. One day, possibly, opening my open therapeutic company where strictly LGBT therapists are hired.

I'm really struggling to find any information for my journey so any links or resources are greatly appreciated!

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[G Costanza]

It sounds like the degree of specialization you are requiring will likely not be met at the masters level. So you could get an MA/MS but you would likely need a lot of training, mentoring, and experiences after you graduate. That's probably the easiest route.

A longer route will be getting a PhD in a program that is known for LGBT research and practice. Even then, you'll still be seeking out extra trainings to supplement your learning but will likely be more prepared and have a much better understanding of research.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

Why not social work? Just curious. I think a lot of people associate the field with casework, policy, etc. (and you can certainly find that component if you want it), but many social work programs are very clinically oriented. I have an MSW from a more clinical program that offered a full course in clinical practice with LGBT individuals. Depending on where the program is located and what's available, there could also be many opportunities for internships working with the LGBT population (Most MSW programs require two academic-year-long internships). The social work field has a strong foundation in human rights and social justice, which would also fit your desire to provide support to this population. After LCSW licensure (~2 years of hours after completing your MSW), you can open your own practice and go nuts. It's also a pretty portable (from state to state) and flexible degree.

I agree with the above that a master's-level program would probably suit your needs and goals, and I would suggest at least looking into the MSW as a possibility.

Best of luck!

 

[MCParent]

If your goal is to run your own large practice, the degree you sink money into should be an MBA, not a PsyD.

 

[yesthisiswene]

I've heard that there are doctoral programs that have the master's built into them after getting so far in the program. Would it be worthwhile to look into that type of program? And try to specialize my "research" towards the LGBT community? The only thing is is that I don't want to do research, or very little if possible. Would getting a Phd be a better fit than a PsyD?

Thanks for the help, but I am pretty set that I do not want a MSW. I just want to be a therapist really. What entails that process?

 

[PsyDr]

1) look up division 44. There has got to be more programs. Or at least faculty peeps.

2) you might want to narrow your interest.

3) your geographic location is going to potentially limit your practice. Last I looked, homosexuality is like 3% of the population. So you'd have to have a catchment area that can support whatever percent of that 3% that have a mental illness and want your treatment. So I would be flexible.

4) I hope you mean "lgbtq sensitive therapists" rather than therapist who identify as lgbtq, because discrimination based upon sexual identity is not okay.

5) there is a professional association for mental healthcare providers serving lgbtq communities. It's called rainbow something or other. Might want to google that.

 

[MCParent]

I've heard that there are doctoral programs that have the master's built into them after getting so far in the program. Would it be worthwhile to look into that type of program? And try to specialize my "research" towards the LGBT community? The only thing is is that I don't want to do research, or very little if possible. Would getting a Phd be a better fit than a PsyD?

Thanks for the help, but I am pretty set that I do not want a MSW. I just want to be a therapist really. What entails that process?

Masters in course--not if you intend on leaving with the masters. Most programs that give a masters in course do not intend for people to run off and practice with the masters degree, so you may not have the required classes done, etc., for masters licensure when you get a masters degree that is intended to be in course.
There are lots of programs that are fine with people doing a thesis, a diss, and a little other research work. That is what most psych grad students at most programs do.
I'm not getting "I just want to be a therapist" as a reason to NOT get an MSW. Do you mean, "I just want to be a doctor"? There are some threads on that...

4) I hope you mean "lgbtq sensitive therapists" rather than therapist who identify as lgbtq, because discrimination based upon sexual identity is not okay.

Plus, assuming that everyone is going to be ok with everyone else (e.g. that a lesbian therapist will not be biphobic, that a cis gay therapist will not be transphobic, etc.). Also seems to be "spun-glass theory of mind" thinking (don't want to put the fragile snowflakes with a scary straight person, even if they've done years of service and advocacy for the lgbt community...)

 

[deleted760483]

Just curious, why don't you want to do research? You are wanting to specialize in a population who could really use more people specifically studying them, in my opinion

 

[deleted480308]

I am almost done with my BA in Psychology, with a minor in Neuroscience and Women's, Gender & Sexuality Studies. Busy schedule, I know.

My next step is getting a Masters, which is where I'm second-guessing what I should do. I want to be an LGBT Therapist with, preferably, no research involvement, just helping people in the LGBT community. I've looked at getting a MA in Clinical Psychology (LGBT-Affirmative Psychology specific program), but that specific program is only offered in California, and I live in Ohio. I'd move if I have to, but I really love the idea of the program altogether.

However, I've been questioning whether getting a PsyD is really worth it. I've read that to be able to practice independently, I'd have to get a MSW, which I do not like social work at all so its concerning to me. In the long-run, I want to own a private practice, where I still see people for therapy. I'll have a BA in Psychology so what should I pursue?

I guess my question is: what degree should I get? I want to see specifically LGBT clients and be their therapist. I want to work independently as a therapist, but it be alright to work for a company for a little bit, until I build a large clientele for myself to work solo. One day, possibly, opening my open therapeutic company where strictly LGBT therapists are hired.

I'm really struggling to find any information for my journey so any links or resources are greatly appreciated!

As in, someone must not be straight in order to work for you?

Would you be cool with someone putting "no lgbt" in their employment ads?

I'd propose you limit your talent pool significantly with either restriction

 

[hamstergang]

The only thing is is that I don't want to do research, or very little if possible. Would getting a Phd be a better fit than a PsyD?

Thanks for the help, but I am pretty set that I do not want a MSW. I just want to be a therapist really. What entails that process?

This is just bizarre. You say you don't want to do research but then ask about a PhD. You say you want a clinical degree but then state you don't want an MSW, which someone just explained as providing all that clinical training.

 

[yesthisiswene]

1) look up division 44. There has got to be more programs. Or at least faculty peeps.

2) you might want to narrow your interest.

3) your geographic location is going to potentially limit your practice. Last I looked, homosexuality is like 3% of the population. So you'd have to have a catchment area that can support whatever percent of that 3% that have a mental illness and want your treatment. So I would be flexible.

4) I hope you mean "lgbtq sensitive therapists" rather than therapist who identify as lgbtq, because discrimination based upon sexual identity is not okay.

5) there is a professional association for mental healthcare providers serving lgbtq communities. It's called rainbow something or other. Might want to google that.

Oh no, I'd want LGBT sensitive/specialized therapists. They wouldn't have to identify as a part of the community.

 

[yesthisiswene]

Masters in course--not if you intend on leaving with the masters. Most programs that give a masters in course do not intend for people to run off and practice with the masters degree, so you may not have the required classes done, etc., for masters licensure when you get a masters degree that is intended to be in course.
There are lots of programs that are fine with people doing a thesis, a diss, and a little other research work. That is what most psych grad students at most programs do.
I'm not getting "I just want to be a therapist" as a reason to NOT get an MSW. Do you mean, "I just want to be a doctor"? There are some threads on that...




Plus, assuming that everyone is going to be ok with everyone else (e.g. that a lesbian therapist will not be biphobic, that a cis gay therapist will not be transphobic, etc.). Also seems to be "spun-glass theory of mind" thinking (don't want to put the fragile snowflakes with a scary straight person, even if they've done years of service and advocacy for the lgbt community...)

I wouldn't run off with just the Master's degree, I am just trying to get the degree that's best going to qualify me for the job.

No need to worry about that too. I'm open-minded and accepted to all branches of LGBTQIA+ and I wouldn't start my own practice until after many years of working independently. Hopefully, the world will change a little bit more within 10 years.

 

[yesthisiswene]

Just curious, why don't you want to do research? You are wanting to specialize in a population who could really use more people specifically studying them, in my opinion

I've been doing research in college and I find absolutely as a task rather than being excited about data and results. I feel like a computer. Find data. Report data. Have results. Interpret results. Publish. Repeat. It's all a ver boring process for me and I don't want to be bored with my career. The only thing I like about research is when I'm done with it.

 

[yesthisiswene]

This is just bizarre. You say you don't want to do research but then ask about a PhD. You say you want a clinical degree but then state you don't want an MSW, which someone just explained as providing all that clinical training.

I don't want a MSW. Their salary is degrading based on everything that they do, while someone with a PhD/PsyD gets paid astronomically more and are more specialized to be doing this. I don't want all the stereotypes that come with being a social worker. That's just my opinion and my decision. I already don't favor the job I'm in now, but I'd rather not doing it my whole life. Plus, PsyD's don't entail as much research as a PhD anyway.

 

[yesthisiswene]

I want the best degree possible and I want the best qualifications to do what I want to do. I don't want to be skimped out on what I could be earning, or the changes I could make, or the impacts to the community. I feel as if only having a Master's I won't get the same respect I would with a PhD or PsyD.

 

[deleted480308]

I want the best degree possible and I want the best qualifications to do what I want to do. I don't want to be skimped out on what I could be earning, or the changes I could make, or the impacts to the community. I feel as if only having a Master's I won't get the same respect I would with a PhD or PsyD.

You mean you don't want someone to look down on you as an MSW in the same way that you look down on MSWs?

 

[yesthisiswene]

You mean you don't want someone to look down on you as an MSW in the same way that you look down on MSWs?

I don't look down on the MSW, I just don't want to be a social worker. I never have wanted to be one. It's like asking a child what he wants to be when he grows up and after he says dentist, you say office manager would be a better route. I don't want to be a social worker. That's just what I have decided.

 

[MCParent]

I don't look down on the MSW, I just don't want to be a social worker. I never have wanted to be one. It's like asking a child what he wants to be when he grows up and after he says dentist, you say office manager would be a better route. I don't want to be a social worker. That's just what I have decided.

No, it isn't. It's like asking a child what they want to be, and they say "dentist," and then you ask them what they want to do all day, and you say "I think you might actually want to be an orthodontist."
I think you need to look more into the helping professions as a start. There are several books out there.

 

[G Costanza]

I think you're in a bit of a paradox. You want a highly reputable school to earn a PsyD or PhD that doesn't require much research. I don't know of any.

That being said, you could get a doctorate at a school that requires minimal research and it likely wouldn't hold you back too much. Insurance companies and people who pay cash for services don't care where you went to school. They just want you to be effective.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I don't look down on the MSW, I just don't want to be a social worker. I never have wanted to be one. It's like asking a child what he wants to be when he grows up and after he says dentist, you say office manager would be a better route. I don't want to be a social worker. That's just what I have decided.

When asked what you wanted to be, you said, "I just want to be a therapist really." That's an MSW. If you only want to do therapy, you're not going to make much more with a doctoral degree than you would as an LCSW; you'll just have a lot more debt to pay off.

It sounds like you're still in school (finishing up your BA), so I would suggest discussing your goals and options with an academic adviser or faculty member.

 

[rerope]

I don't look down on the MSW, I just don't want to be a social worker. I never have wanted to be one. It's like asking a child what he wants to be when he grows up and after he says dentist, you say office manager would be a better route. I don't want to be a social worker. That's just what I have decided.

I second the suggestion on familiarizing yourself more with a SW duties in different settings. I'm working at an R1 AMC and the LMSWs have not only a lot of autonomy but do mostly therapy and assessment and possibly a tiny bit of research (if they want to). Also, they're pretty well respected if they're competent.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

When asked what you wanted to be, you said, "I just want to be a therapist really." That's an MSW. If you only want to do therapy, you're not going to make much more with a doctoral degree than you would as an LCSW; you'll just have a lot more debt to pay off.

It sounds like you're still in school (finishing up your BA), so I would suggest discussing your goals and options with an academic adviser or faculty member.

I wanted to highlight the point that an MSW doing therapy doesn't make much less than a psychologist only doing therapy. A major insurer in my city pays me $69 for a 45 minute session. It pays my MSW colleague $60 for that same session. Additionally, due to lack of job options in my (major midwestern) city, I have had psychologist friends apply for jobs that were advertising for social workers and counselors. They were able to negotiate a little more salary, but very little.

Not trying to change your mind. Just putting info out there for future visitors to this thread. Good luck.

 

[deleted760483]

The difference in pay between PsyD or PhD and MSW is hardly astronomical in most cases. If both individuals in our theoretical comparison function primarily as psychotherapists it is practically nonexistent.

 

[deleted343839]

I want the best degree possible and I want the best qualifications to do what I want to do. I don't want to be skimped out on what I could be earning, or the changes I could make, or the impacts to the community. I feel as if only having a Master's I won't get the same respect I would with a PhD or PsyD.

It's not that hard to figure out a way to put "Dr." in front of your name, and no one knows that better than people who are already called "Dr."

I'll offer my perspective as someone with a Ph.D. who frequently refers out to therapists in my community. We get to know other practitioners in a lot of ways. Some of it is by reputation, or recommendations from trusted colleagues, or conversations we've had at professional meetings, or patients who come back and give us feedback about the therapist, or other kinds of first- or second-hand interactions. But in a pinch, when none of this sort of information is available, I look very closely at someone's credentials. Someone who attended a reputable master's program and has work experience in a reputable organization or agency is going to command my respect much more than someone with a PsyD who attended a mediocre program and has less experience. I'm in a large city, and when I'm looking for referrals, I skip over PsyDs with lousy credentials all the time.

In case this wasn't clear before, let's make it crystal: high quality doctoral programs, PhD or PsyD, require meaningful research experience. Good PsyD programs and good PhD programs are more alike than unalike. There is a gap between the lay perception of a psychologist and how psychologists are actually trained to think and practice.

Someone who wants to focus exclusively on providing counseling/psychotherapy would do well to consider the master's degree option. For instance, one of my friends is a licensed clinical social worker, specializes in one area, and works as a private practice psychotherapist on a cash-only basis. Before striking out on her own she worked for years as a therapist for a very reputable hospital in a specialized clinical program. She has plenty of respect from the community, mine included.

TL;DR: The best degree is the one that best fits the career you want. Make sure that you have checked out all your options.

 

[foreverbull]

I am almost done with my BA in Psychology, with a minor in Neuroscience and Women's, Gender & Sexuality Studies. Busy schedule, I know.
My next step is getting a Masters, which is where I'm second-guessing what I should do. I want to be an LGBT Therapist with, preferably, no research involvement, just helping people in the LGBT community. I've looked at getting a MA in Clinical Psychology (LGBT-Affirmative Psychology specific program), but that specific program is only offered in California, and I live in Ohio. I'd move if I have to, but I really love the idea of the program altogether.
However, I've been questioning whether getting a PsyD is really worth it. I've read that to be able to practice independently, I'd have to get a MSW, which I do not like social work at all so its concerning to me. In the long-run, I want to own a private practice, where I still see people for therapy. I'll have a BA in Psychology so what should I pursue?
I guess my question is: what degree should I get? I want to see specifically LGBT clients and be their therapist. I want to work independently as a therapist, but it be alright to work for a company for a little bit, until I build a large clientele for myself to work solo. One day, possibly, opening my open therapeutic company where strictly LGBT therapists are hired.
I'm really struggling to find any information for my journey so any links or resources are greatly appreciated!

I think I can add some advice here as a psychologist who both identifies as LGBT and has quite a bit of experience with LGBTQ clients. You don't need to go into a program that specializes in LGBT-affirmative care because at this point, every reputable program should be training you to be sensitive to LGBT needs/concerns--look for courses regarding multicultural counseling/competence as a rough measure of whether you will get that training.
From personal experience, most master's in counseling and counseling psychology Ph.D. programs require a multicultural/pluralistic counseling course that includes a section on LGBTQIA folks (APA-accredited clinical Ph.D. programs do not require it, or at least they didn't when I was in grad school). Having said that, the biggest thing you will need next is experience working with LGBTQ folks and good supervision, so the practica/internships that you do will be hugely important. I worked with a lot of LGBTQ folks in college counseling centers, and working with adolescents, so the bulk of my experience came from practicing. I'm not sure that the CA master's is necessary if a program locally has a multicultural training/course component.

Also, look for LGBTQ/gender trainings/conferences in your area or nationally, because you can be certified to work with transgender populations in some states. Trainings will be just as helpful as the practicum/internship experiences.

I have worked with many transgender youth and adults and gay, bisexual, gender questioning individuals and have a "developing" specialization in it, but I'm also a generalist and don't like to be trapped into one box, especially as I'm about to start private practice and want to work with a range of folks. Marketing oneself as purely LGBT-focused might limit your opportunities, at least as you're starting out, although it's important to make it known that those experiences are a strength.

I attended the Gender Spectrum Symposium, and there are several events like this in other states, but you have to do a bit of research...usually being in a master's or doc program will help connect you with those kinds of resources. I can't speak to clinical programs and their training in multicultural competence, just counseling programs at the master's and doctoral level, both of which I was a part of. As I said, look for course offerings in cultural competence/diversity as a good sign for a program and look for outside trainings and clinical experiences that will match what you want. College counseling centers are great places to work to find LGBTQIA clients, and they sometimes accept master's level practitioners/interns, but it varies by site.

Feel free to message me privately if you have further questions. Best of luck!

 

[MCParent]

I think I can add some advice here as a psychologist who both identifies as LGBT and has quite a bit of experience with LGBTQ clients. You don't need to go into a program that specializes in LGBT-affirmative care because at this point, every reputable program should be training you to be sensitive to LGBT needs/concerns--look for courses regarding multicultural counseling/competence as a rough measure of whether you will get that training.
From personal experience, most master's in counseling and counseling psychology Ph.D. programs require a multicultural/pluralistic counseling course that includes a section on LGBTQIA folks (APA-accredited clinical Ph.D. programs do not require it, or at least they didn't when I was in grad school). Having said that, the biggest thing you will need next is experience working with LGBTQ folks and good supervision, so the practica/internships that you do will be hugely important. I worked with a lot of LGBTQ folks in college counseling centers, and working with adolescents, so the bulk of my experience came from practicing. I'm not sure that the CA master's is necessary if a program locally has a multicultural training/course component.

Also, look for LGBTQ/gender trainings/conferences in your area or nationally, because you can be certified to work with transgender populations in some states. Trainings will be just as helpful as the practicum/internship experiences.

I have worked with many transgender youth and adults and gay, bisexual, gender questioning individuals and have a "developing" specialization in it, but I'm also a generalist and don't like to be trapped into one box, especially as I'm about to start private practice and want to work with a range of folks. Marketing oneself as purely LGBT-focused might limit your opportunities, at least as you're starting out, although it's important to make it known that those experiences are a strength.

I attended the Gender Spectrum Symposium, and there are several events like this in other states, but you have to do a bit of research...usually being in a master's or doc program will help connect you with those kinds of resources. I can't speak to clinical programs and their training in multicultural competence, just counseling programs at the master's and doctoral level, both of which I was a part of. As I said, look for course offerings in cultural competence/diversity as a good sign for a program and look for outside trainings and clinical experiences that will match what you want. College counseling centers are great places to work to find LGBTQIA clients, and they sometimes accept master's level practitioners/interns, but it varies by site.

Feel free to message me privately if you have further questions. Best of luck!

I think the OP's career aspirations are less defined by the LGBT interests than the entrepreneurial interests. I don't know of any psych training programs that offer the organizational management skills the OP would need to hit their actual goal (managing large PP). They should but I don't know a single one that does. I'd say an entrepreneurial MBA is the most critical degree, then whatever degree lets OP do some therapy.

 

[foreverbull]

I think the OP's career aspirations are less defined by the LGBT interests than the entrepreneurial interests. I don't know of any psych training programs that offer the organizational management skills the OP would need to hit their actual goal (managing large PP). They should but I don't know a single one that does. I'd say an entrepreneurial MBA is the most critical degree, then whatever degree lets OP do some therapy.

In that case, since MSW is not preferred by the OP, a master's in counseling or clinical psych would be fine. One can practice in some states independently with a master's if you pursue the Licensed Professional Counselor, etc. route after enough years of practice or do the counseling/clinical psychology doctorate (Psy.D. would be more appropriate for a desire to avoid research).

You'd likely want to pay for consultation with someone outside your area (i.e. no competition) who has already done this route. For example,
The Gay Therapy Center
offers therapy specifically to the LGBT community in the Bay Area, so the OP can pay to consult with the founder about the business expertise involved once the appropriate degree is obtained.

 

[psych.meout]

I'm surprised no one else has touched more on the "research is icky" mentality here.

That doctoral programs require their students to perform research is not simply to train researchers or faculty at universities. This is a misconception that furthers the false narrative that PsyD programs are for students who want to be involved in clinical practice, which is at least partially fostered by professional schools and other low quality doctoral programs trying to convince applicants to ignore common sense and attend anyways.

Doctoral programs are aware of the career outcome stats for clinical students in general and their students specifically. They know that most graduates end up in clinical careers of some kind. Performing research during graduate school is necessary to make their clinician graduates competent consumers of empirical research in their clinical responsibilities. Part of their duty as ethical clinicians is to use the best evidence-based practices, which requires that they are up-to-date on the extant empirical research of the field and related disciplines (e.g. medical research into pain issues). Anyone can read an scholarly journal article, but without a strong foundation in research, stats, and clinical psychology (like that inculcated in a good doctoral program), it's far less likely that a given person will truly understand the article and the research behind it. Without this basis, one may not understand the stats being used and may miss errors or even impropriety (e.g. P-hacking), thereby credulously accepting the results without realizing the flaws behind it. Or they might be extrapolating the results beyond the actual external validity of the study (e.g. applying the results to the general population when only US military veterans were studied).

This is not to say that there aren't great mid-level practitioners. I would simply argue that not having as strong didactic training in these issues means that they have to find other avenues of achieving similar research comprehension competence, which will necessarily be more difficult and inconsistent.

 

[deleted760483]

Personally I find it tremendously valuable to be able to understand research, but I do think it's overstating the case to suggest that if you are unable to do so you are at risk of being unable to apply evidence based practices when there are entire organizations, such as APA Division 12, dedicated to delineated the research and providing s comprehensive summary of the literature on EBTs

 

[WisNeuro]

Personally I find it tremendously valuable to be able to understand research, but I do think it's overstating the case to suggest that if you are unable to do so you are at risk of being unable to apply evidence based practices when there are entire organizations, such as APA Division 12, dedicated to delineated the research and providing s comprehensive summary of the literature on EBTs

I'd actually argue that this example only supports the need to actually be able to understand how research is done and how to evaluate it adequately. Otherwise people would see that APA Div 12 says that EMDR has "Strong" support despite the fact that it is just exposure with a meaningless extra component, a component that is very expensive to become "trained" in and requires expensive equipment. Not understanding how to evaluate research is why there are plenty of useless and/or outdated clinicians across the healthcare spectrum.

 

[psych.meout]

I'd actually argue that this example only supports the need to actually be able to understand how research is done and how to evaluate it adequately. Otherwise people would see that APA Div 12 says that EMDR has "Strong" support despite the fact that it is just exposure with a meaningless extra component, a component that is very expensive to become "trained" in and requires expensive equipment. Not understanding how to evaluate research is why there are plenty of useless and/or outdated clinicians across the healthcare spectrum.

Exactly.

We're not talking about sci-comm for lay masses. We're talking about clinicians being informed about the best evidence-based practices. Deferring this responsibility to someone else, because they, for whatever reason, never obtained a full understanding of research and how to evaluate it, is an abdication of ethical responsibilities. It also opens the door to a more meta problem of not understanding the flaws and biases of the people that are distilling the empirical research for you, e.g. EMDR.

 

[deleted760483]

I'd actually argue that this example only supports the need to actually be able to understand how research is done and how to evaluate it adequately. Otherwise people would see that APA Div 12 says that EMDR has "Strong" support despite the fact that it is just exposure with a meaningless extra component, a component that is very expensive to become "trained" in and requires expensive equipment. Not understanding how to evaluate research is why there are plenty of useless and/or outdated clinicians across the healthcare spectrum.

EMDR is actually listed as strong/controversial and it is clearly stated how there is not strong evidence that it adds anything beyond standard exposure therapy.

 

[WisNeuro]

EMDR is actually listed as strong/controversial and it is clearly stated how there is not strong evidence that it adds anything beyond standard exposure therapy.

If one digs for it, they can find that. They should be able to get to that point themselves reviewing the literature. It's the reason EMDR got so big in the first place. The horse has left the barn and there's no convincing an EMDR "practitioner" that what they are doing is just watered down exposure with some fancy sounding neuro terms and an expensive placebo device attached to it. In other realms, it's why Donepezil is still widely prescribed for memory loss. Clinicians in healthcare are poor evaluators of clinical research, leading to expensive, and in-efficacious care. The answer is to make clinicians more research savvy so that they can understand, not less research savvy with a diploma mill degree so that they can go out into the world and just believe whatever pop science reporting they read and deliver subpar care.

 

[deleted760483]

You don't have to "dig" for it at all. This is the full description of EMDR for PTSD from Division 12, minus citations:

"Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing, or EMDR, pairs eye movements with cognitive processing of the traumatic memories. The initial phases of EMDR involve affect management techniques, such as relaxation. During the processing stage of therapy, the patient describes the traumatic memory and identifies and labels the images, beliefs, and physiological symptoms elicited by it. The patient is instructed to focus on these aspects of the traumatic memory while moving his/her eyes back and forth by tracking the therapists’ finger (although other bilateral stimulation, such as finger-tapping, is used). The theoretical basis for EMDR is that PTSD symptoms result from insufficient processing/integration of sensory, cognitive, and affective elements of the traumatic memory. The bilateral eye movements are proposed to facilitate information processing and integration, allowing clients to fully process traumatic memories.

The efficacy of EMDR for PTSD is an extremely controversial subject among researchers, as the available evidence can be interpreted in several ways. On one hand, studies have shown that EMDR produces greater reduction in PTSD symptoms compared to control groups receiving no treatment. On the other hand, the existing methodologically sound research comparing EMDR to exposure therapy without eye movements has found no difference in outcomes. Thus, it appears that while EMDR is effective, the mechanism of change may be exposure – and the eye movements may be an unnecessary addition. If EMDR is indeed simply exposure therapy with a superfluous addition, it brings to question whether the dissemination of EMDR is beneficial for patients and the field. However, proponents of EMDR insist that it is empirically supported and more efficient than traditional treatments for PTSD. In any case, more concrete, scientific evidence supporting the proposed mechanisms is necessary before the controversy surrounding EMDR will lift."

Again, I do believe it is helpful to be able to critically review research, but suggesting not doing so puts one at risk of malpractice is overstating your case and using EMDR as an example is silly. EMDR is not a harmful or ineffective intervention. Someone took an already helpful treatment and basically added a proprietary business model to it. I don't think getting trained in EMDR is a good use of a practitioners time and money, but that's pretty much where the harm ends.

 

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If one digs for it, they can find that. They should be able to get to that point themselves reviewing the literature. It's the reason EMDR got so big in the first place. The horse has left the barn and there's no convincing an EMDR "practitioner" that what they are doing is just watered down exposure with some fancy sounding neuro terms and an expensive placebo device attached to it. In other realms, it's why Donepezil is still widely prescribed for memory loss. Clinicians in healthcare are poor evaluators of clinical research, leading to expensive, and in-efficacious care. The answer is to make clinicians more research savvy so that they can understand, not less research savvy with a diploma mill degree so that they can go out into the world and just believe whatever pop science reporting they read and deliver subpar care.

I'm not sure if your opinion is coming from actually working in settings with master's level therapists, but in sites I've worked at with master's clinicians and in job postings I've seen where I live and work, many employers expect master's level practitioners to seek training or already be familiar with some evidence-based practice/treatments, especially trauma-focused CBT if working with youth/adolescents, etc. There is a huge push for more evidence-based practice in most non-profits and community mental health centers, so evidence-based treatments are becoming an expectation for everyone to be marketable, even at the master's level. So regardless of willingness to review the literature, there has been and continues to be a huge drive for both master's and doctoral-level clinicians to be trained in interventions/treatments that have been shown to work, whether it's EMDR, TF-CBT, etc. Whether or not everyone chooses to review the literature, they can still receive appropriate training in treatments that work and provide sound therapy, although of course we'd like people to continue to review the research out there. I think it goes a bit far to say that not reviewing the literature necessarily results in subpar care. If you're trained in an evidence-based treatment, the literature should already be there to back it up, regardless of the mechanism of action, in EMDR's case.