HPSP help

[Tim722]

Well you make the point about 92% of med school grads (and is that number really that high? Is that 92% of US allopathic grads, not accounting for foreign and international grads?) don't match, meaning no internship. The military guarantees you an internship. In that sense it is a safety. Yes the mil will always need the above mentioned specialties, but when it comes your time to apply those 30 spots might be whittled down to 24 because of GMO slots, LTC's who feel like picking up another specialty, and juiced in scions. That's a 20% drop in available slots, this is the tyranny of small numbers we talk about. The military is a sure thing for internship but not so much for full residency training. Most do train in their chosen (or compromised) fields. That is the average outcome. But when you get bounced to GMO land, it's 100% happening to you.

Yea the point system the mil has sucks for incoming students but is great for some people coming back from GMO billets or switching residencies.

From what I saw published from the AAMC it was 92% US medical school grads matched. 88% DOs matched that participated in ACGME and FMG/IMG was 52% or so.

So idk the civilian world is becoming bottle necked as new MD/DO for profits are opening and that is definitely going to have some effects as the AOA and ACGME merge the year I graduate. I like the thought of service and being able to do my part, yes I have got into a school that will give me some advantages when match comes around but I still have worries about the civilian side as there are so many great applicants every year that are doing research years etc to increase there odds and if your taking more time to match your debt is stedy capatalizing.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Tim722]

I'm being modest bro. I dont mean I'm going to flunk out of med school. I meant I might be competitive for primary care rather than something as cometitive as ortho. You know what I mean? So the potential benefits of the HPSP program are dependent on an unforseeable future (I will just assume Im competitive for primary care vs other more competitive specialties).

I feel ya man. THere are things like NHCS or whatever that help pay back loans I know a guy in San Diego "under served area" getting a FM salary and getting 60 a year paid pac or whatever it is.

 

[theonlytycrane]

^^ I'll be a slave to ADSO or my debt for 4ish years.

 

[Homunculus]

a vigorous thread. I like it.

Yes. At that level, "doing it for the money" starts to make a lot more sense. Even if you land a very high paying specialist job, 1. You won't lose a lot and 2. You're making a ton of money, so it won't matter.
Though I still think you need to have a desire to serve in the military or you'll probably focus only on the negative and be miserable.
Il Destriero

also, with the recent blended retirement system implementation if you get out after your initial ADSO is up the financial hit is even less than it would have been previous. which is why I think the blended retirement will end up killing retention for subspecialties in the 12-14 year range. deadens the blow to leave and you can jump ship and make civilian money or join the reserves/guard.

I have noticed that you really dont recommend HPSP. Why has your experience been so bad? Is it super common for HPSPers to have a bad experience or what?

super common? no. but I think everyone goes through a phase when they think "wtf did I sign up for?" by far and away the people with the most miserable experiences are those who did it for the money and/or did not do their research and understand the impact to their future spouse/children of their moving/deployments/career stunting due to lack of fellowship training.

What I was aiming for is that using the military for a safety net is something most on here would highly discourage?

I would not use the military as a "safety net" any more than I would use a car title loan place as a safety net for financial needs. you're always going to have non-matched people through social advancement (it happens in medschool, too) or people under-applying or whatever. you'll get a civilian residency in the specialty you want as long as you have realistic expectations (can't bomb the boards and want to do NSG) and apply to enough places. that's not true in the military. through dumb luck/fate/chance you could be a shoe in at a civilian residency (or fellowship) and simply not be approved due to needs of the army.

--your friendly neighborhood padawan guiding caveman

 

[Tim722]

a vigorous thread. I like it.



also, with the recent blended retirement system implementation if you get out after your initial ADSO is up the financial hit is even less than it would have been previous. which is why I think the blended retirement will end up killing retention for subspecialties in the 12-14 year range. deadens the blow to leave and you can jump ship and make civilian money or join the reserves/guard.



super common? no. but I think everyone goes through a phase when they think "wtf did I sign up for?" by far and away the people with the most miserable experiences are those who did it for the money and/or did not do their research and understand the impact to their future spouse/children of their moving/deployments/career stunting due to lack of fellowship training.



I would not use the military as a "safety net" any more than I would use a car title loan place as a safety net for financial needs. you're always going to have non-matched people through social advancement (it happens in medschool, too) or people under-applying or whatever. you'll get a civilian residency in the specialty you want as long as you have realistic expectations (can't bomb the boards and want to do NSG) and apply to enough places. that's not true in the military. through dumb luck/fate/chance you could be a shoe in at a civilian residency (or fellowship) and simply not be approved due to needs of the army.

--your friendly neighborhood padawan guiding caveman

Padawan guiding, I about woke up my house laughing I seriously love the caveman quotes you guys need to collect all of them and put them into a book. I would never join as a safety net that was my response to the other post. Yea, hindsight is 20/20 and the grass is always greener on the other side but the state of civilian GME is getting ultra competitive. For example Kaiser and arrowhead county hospital are opening up medical schools in southern CA, Which from my understanding is one of the most competitve pools in terms of residency training. So I am looking down the barrell of sallie mae and Uncle sam and trying to see what avenue will be the best for my future. I still have a choice I havent raised my right hand and signed my papers but for some reason I want to.

 

[Tim722]

^^ I'll be a slave to ADSO or my debt for 4ish years.

Yea thats how I feel but like wernikie pointed to makes me think twich before signing

 

[Homunculus]

... Kaiser and arrowhead county hospital are opening up medical schools in southern CA, Which from my understanding is one of the most competitve pools in terms of residency training.

see that's the thing-- if you aren't tied to a particular geographic area, you can get your residency. that option is not available to the .mil

I havent raised my right hand and signed my papers but for some reason I want to.

it's easy to romanticize. it's programmed into us. it's ok to have that feeling, but you need to identify what the feeling is- debt aversion? a romanticized Hollywoodified vision of military service? discomfort with the uncertainty of what comes after medical school? it's a normal thing, and it's where the recruiters (especially for enlisted) work their magic. this is the time to be analytical-- and if the numbers works and you read the forum and understand the risks, it can be a solution. but at least you'll go in knowing the life you've signed up for.

--your friendly neighborhood 17 years of quotes I'm sure I've repeated a few caveman

 

[WernickeDO]

@WernickeDO In your GMO position do you feel that you're able to keep growing your skills? Or are you tasked with a lot of admin bs?

Well in my current position if I just did my assigned job all the time the answer would be no. But, I have quite a few side projects that have allowed me to stay in the game somewhat. I have certainly lost skills and knowledge since becoming a GMO. I am tasked with a lot of admin crap, it's about half my job.

 

[WernickeDO]

Yea the point system the mil has sucks for incoming students but is great for some people coming back from GMO billets or switching residencies.

From what I saw published from the AAMC it was 92% US medical school grads matched. 88% DOs matched that participated in ACGME and FMG/IMG was 52% or so.

So idk the civilian world is becoming bottle necked as new MD/DO for profits are opening and that is definitely going to have some effects as the AOA and ACGME merge the year I graduate. I like the thought of service and being able to do my part, yes I have got into a school that will give me some advantages when match comes around but I still have worries about the civilian side as there are so many great applicants every year that are doing research years etc to increase there odds and if your taking more time to match your debt is stedy capatalizing.

The points system is crap. GMOs almost universally have a hard time returning to training unless they want IM, psych, or another residency that didn't fill. Program directors fill up first with MS4s and then throw a couple scraps to GMOs.

 

[SirGecko]

The points system is crap. GMOs almost universally have a hard time returning to training unless they want IM, psych, or another residency that didn't fill. Program directors fill up first with MS4s and then throw a couple scraps to GMOs.

Should be noted that this is different in the Navy. We have a lot more GMO's and depending on the program you aren't at a disadvantage for matching compared to current interns. (it will vary some from specialty to specialty though)

 

[WernickeDO]

Should be noted that this is different in the Navy. We have a lot more GMO's and depending on the program you aren't at a disadvantage for matching compared to current interns. (it will vary some from specialty to specialty though)

I actually think the Navy has the right idea here. GMOs are commonplace and it's expected that you return to training after a tour. In the Army, you are a bit of an oddity.

 

[jordansnfootbal]

see that's the thing-- if you aren't tied to a particular geographic area, you can get your residency. that option is not available to the .mil



it's easy to romanticize. it's programmed into us. it's ok to have that feeling, but you need to identify what the feeling is- debt aversion? a romanticized Hollywoodified vision of military service? discomfort with the uncertainty of what comes after medical school? it's a normal thing, and it's where the recruiters (especially for enlisted) work their magic. this is the time to be analytical-- and if the numbers works and you read the forum and understand the risks, it can be a solution. but at least you'll go in knowing the life you've signed up for.

--your friendly neighborhood 17 years of quotes I'm sure I've repeated a few caveman

Man I have 83k loans every term from an expensive ass school for OOS students. I'm getting emails from my school talking about the federal loan interest getting higher. This making me sweat I'm about to sign and don't even have the papers yet lmao

 

[Tim722]

Man I have 83k loans every term from an expensive ass school for OOS students. I'm getting emails from my school talking about the federal loan interest getting higher. This making me sweat I'm about to sign and don't even have the papers yet lmao

I really hope that is including cost of living as well.

 

[Tim722]

I really hope that is including cost of living as well.

Man I have 83k loans every term from an expensive ass school for OOS students. I'm getting emails from my school talking about the federal loan interest getting higher. This making me sweat I'm about to sign and don't even have the papers yet lmao

Have you gotten accepted into HPSP? Which branch.

 

[jordansnfootbal]

I really hope that is including cost of living as well.

Yeah it does. My tuition is 57K or something around there.

Have you gotten accepted into HPSP? Which branch.

Yeah. I got accepted to the Air Force HPSP.

 

[Tim722]

Yeah it does. My tuition is 57K or something around there.

Yeah. I got accepted to the Air Force HPSP.

Damn Well HPSP definitely makes a lot of sense financially for you man that's 400k by the time residency rolls around

 

[theonlytycrane]

@WernickeDO In the army, no one is safe from GMO until after intern year, correct? Because some people who matched their desired specialty will get called for GMO after intern year?

 

[Homunculus]

@WernickeDO In the army, no one is safe from GMO until after intern year, correct? Because some people who matched their desired specialty will get called for GMO after intern year?

technically I guess no one is safe but most residencies are "continuous training" meaning they don't chop it up into intern/residency anymore. except for cases of negligent/poor fit/weight issues or the servicemember wanting to leave after internship it's a rarity at least on the medicine side of the house. not sure about surgery or other specialties.

--your friendly neighborhood "you're terrible we're kicking you out to go practice on your own" is odd logic caveman

 

[WernickeDO]

It used to be that general surgery would cut an intern and they would end up GMO. That's what happened to me. But back in the day it would be a 1 year tour and the expectation was that you would go right back to training when completed. Those days are over. Now your training will go straight through save the reasons homunculus outlined. If you are a TY chances are you are headed for GMO. But you have to at least finish the internship first so you can get licensed.

 

[Tim722]

It used to be that general surgery would cut an intern and they would end up GMO. That's what happened to me. But back in the day it would be a 1 year tour and the expectation was that you would go right back to training when completed. Those days are over. Now your training will go straight through save the reasons homunculus outlined. If you are a TY chances are you are headed for GMO. But you have to at least finish the internship first so you can get licensed.

How difficult is it for one to match civilian or military after doing a GMO? What are your plans if you don't mind me asking.

 

[WernickeDO]

How difficult is it for one to match civilian or military after doing a GMO? What are your plans if you don't mind me asking.

There is a good sticky on the civilian match on the front page. As for the military match, there is also a discussion on this subject in the Pros and cons sticky if you go to the last page. My plans are to finish up and get out, hopefully return to residency.

 

[Tim722]

There is a good sticky on the civilian match on the front page. As for the military match, there is also a discussion on this subject in the Pros and cons sticky if you go to the last page. My plans are to finish up and get out, hopefully return to residency.

Will look into it. Thank you.

 

[Tim722]

Do spouses that are healthcare providers such as a RN have a hard time getting work near bases or at the medical centers on bases.?