How bad is the job market in your area?

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I'm looking in the NE and applied to at least 30 positions in the last 6 months. With my PGY2 training, my most promising lead right now is a staff/order verification pharmacist position.
wow is moving out of the NE an option? The pgy2s I know got really good jobs in the midwest

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Live in a medium-sized city in GA. There are no jobs aside from a single CVS position in the ghetto that they can't manage to fill. The last pharmacist who held the job had previous retail experience and they quit after 2 days. Last I've heard, graduates of the c/o 2017 are applying to positions in rural MS and LA because there's nothing left in most GA cities aside from a random CVS position here and there.

You have some pretty poor sources. I see several inpatient positions open (both FT and PRN) at multiple hospitals in the Metro-Atlanta area and in some of the larger cities outside of Atlanta.
 
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This sounds like you're a prisoner of your own device. Why not promote one of the inpatient pharmacists you have already trained and then fill their position with a PGY1 grad?

Because the inpatient pharmacists want to be inpatient pharmacists, we'll gladly take a PGY-1 grad with interest in transitions of care.
 
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You might have to movie [...] It sucks, but it is what it is.

I've heard of sleeping your way to the top, is this what the new kids are doing? Making porno snapchats to move up the ladder? :rofl:
 
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I saw this thread because of an user from the prepharm forum warning others about the job market. I noticed that there are some serious deniers out there who think he is trying to discourage them some way. I'm asking you guys, in all honesty please...is the job market really that bad? And why are there so many people on the prepharm sub forum who don't seem to believe it?

It's risk tolerance, and it's all relative. I'll explain.

In 2005, a degree got you a job no matter how terrible you were. By the time you graduate in ~2021, we'll have been 16 years removed from these days. That's the equivalent of telling one of our older members to compare the job market (in general, not pharmacy) in 2000 vs. 1984. It's not fair to compare, so there's some aspect of that going on because 2005 is fairly recent for me personally (as I'm > 30 years old).

On the flip side, the current reality is that to have a better than average shot at getting a decent job, you need two discrete events to occur. Event A = admission to pharmacy school, event B = matching for a residency or event C = obtaining employment early & doing well enough to jump off of that.

If you only achieve A, you're in for a lot of trouble. The problem is, you can't even start working on B or C until you sign on the dotted line, plunk down a bunch of money, and commit to 4 years.

It's like driving full speed on a half-complete bridge over water and needing to invent and fire up a jet engine before you plummet over the edge.
 
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It's risk tolerance, and it's all relative. I'll explain.

In 2005, a degree got you a job no matter how terrible you were. By the time you graduate in ~2021, we'll have been 16 years removed from these days. That's the equivalent of telling one of our older members to compare the job market (in general, not pharmacy) in 2000 vs. 1984. It's not fair to compare, so there's some aspect of that going on because 2005 is fairly recent for me personally (as I'm > 30 years old).

On the flip side, the current reality is that to have a better than average shot at getting a decent job, you need two discrete events to occur. Event A = admission to pharmacy school, event B = matching for a residency or event C = obtaining employment early & doing well enough to jump off of that.

If you only achieve A, you're in for a lot of trouble. The problem is, you can't even start working on B or C until you sign on the dotted line, plunk down a bunch of money, and commit to 4 years.

It's like driving full speed on a half-complete bridge over water and needing to invent and fire up a jet engine before you plummet over the edge.

Thank you, this was a good explanation actually.


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Thank you, this was a good explanation actually.


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Don't do it. Only a fool would spend the time, money, and effort to get a degree to enter a profession where the prospect of getting a job depends on so much more than having the degree/qualification in and of itself of being a pharmacist. Keep in mind that even if you go to pharmacy school, work/hustle during school, and manage to find a job, you are almost guaranteed to have to move to some BFE state that will force you to adapt to a lifestyle that is starkly different from what you've grown accustomed to (especially if you are from the NE). Pick literally anything else.
 
I'm a full-time management consultant to the pharmaceutical industry with a firm in Manhattan.
Got promoted and still no.
Not trying to be rude, but how do you survive?
Surely you don't live in
 
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Don't do it. Only a fool would spend the time, money, and effort to get a degree to enter a profession where the prospect of getting a job depends on so much more than having the degree/qualification in and of itself of being a pharmacist.

But isn't that any job? I get what you're saying, pharmacy school is just expensive with a huge opportunity cost. But how is the whole "degree + training" paradigm different for pharmacy vs. the majority of other degrees/careers out there?

Again, back to the relativism thing. It's terrible for pharmacy because in 2005, jobs fell from the sky. I would argue that pharmacy has joined the real world. But I can agree with you in that pharmacy is an expensive ticket to the real world.
 
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But isn't that any job? I get what you're saying, pharmacy school is just expensive with a huge opportunity cost. But how is the whole "degree + training" paradigm different for pharmacy vs. the majority of other degrees/careers out there?

Again, back to the relativism thing. It's terrible for pharmacy because in 2005, jobs fell from the sky. I would argue that pharmacy has joined the real world. But I can agree with you in that pharmacy is an expensive ticket to the real world.

On one level, I think I'm comparing pharmacy's job market to those of other healthcare professions, which are all still in much better shape than pharmacy's. Also, even though it is a good point that most other real-world jobs don't have utopian job markets that are as good as the circa-2005 pharmacy market, I think that the majority of other professions' job markets are at least better off than pharmacy's. I think the fallacy is sort of similar to trying to insist that the lawyer job market is now just a "normal" job market in a similar state to most other professions', when in reality their job market really is objectively in bad shape.
 
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On one level, I think I'm comparing pharmacy's job market to those of other healthcare professions, which are all still in much better shape than pharmacy's. Also, even though it is a good point that most other real-world jobs don't have utopian job markets that are as good as the circa-2005 pharmacy market, I think that the majority of other professions' job markets are at least better off than pharmacy's. I think the fallacy is sort of similar to trying to insist that the lawyer job market is now just a "normal" job market in a similar state to most other professions', when in reality their job market really is objectively in bad shape.

One thing I didn't think of when replying was that other health professions have a degree of autonomy that pharmacy is just barely scratching right now. So even if in the future there is an oversupply of dentists (in some places, there are), optometrists, etc... you can still work as yourself in perhaps a limited capacity. That is, you don't have to rely on an employer for work the way pharmacists generally have to do (is opening your own store even a realistic option anymore? doubtful, the last person who seemed to be successful on here is about to get tossed in federal prison, I presume).

Like...if you're a really lame dentist, you can still open a clinic and see patients with state insurance that seemingly no one wants to take. I had a childhood friend whose father was a dentist, and their clinic was in their house. Seriously, I'd come over to play Nintendo and this entire wing of the house was a dental office and the mom ran the office.
 
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Not trying to be rude, but how do you survive?
Surely you don't live in
The short answer is REPAYE on my Direct Loans, IBR on my FFELP loans, and I don't live in the city.
The long answer is that once I get promoted again in January to Managing Consultant I'll be at retail pharmacist pay with my performance bonus and profit sharing included. After that, Director base salary is above retail pharmacist total compensation, plus my bonus will be based on a larger salary. 1 work from home day per week, 21 PTO days, 7 company holidays, and shutdown between Christmas and New Years Day until then :cool: .

UPDATE 3/2/18: Promoted to Managing Consultant with two WFH days per week.
 
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The short answer is PAYE on my Direct Loans, IBR on my FFELP loans, and I don't live in the city.
The long answer is that once I get promoted again in January to managing consultant I'll be at retail pharmacist pay with my performance bonus and profit sharing included. After that, director base salary is above retail pharmacist total compensation, plus my bonus will be based on a larger salary. 1 work from home day per week, 21 PTO days, 7 company holidays, and shutdown between Christmas and New Years Day until then :cool: .

Pretty sweet.
Do you do any PRN work to keep your knowledge sharp?
 
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Because the inpatient pharmacists want to be inpatient pharmacists, we'll gladly take a PGY-1 grad with interest in transitions of care.
Ah, that's actually very fair and reasonable.

I've been conditioned to expect the worst after witnessing an inpatient pharmacist receive months of training, work anywhere from 20-50% in a specialty area as a "relief" person for several years, only to not even be considered for the job when a new FTE was approved. Yet they still had the pleasure of training the newbie they hired fresh out of residency. If there is a boneheaded choice, I expect management to take it.
 
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I saw this thread because of an user from the prepharm forum warning others about the job market. I noticed that there are some serious deniers out there who think he is trying to discourage them some way. I'm asking you guys, in all honesty please...is the job market really that bad? And why are there so many people on the prepharm sub forum who don't seem to believe it?


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It's terrible. I actually visited the thread you were talking about and there seem to be quite a few individuals who just don't want to believe it to the point where they started to attack the OP in an extreme manner. Take my word for it, they're in serious denial and seem like they hate it when someone brings up the truth. The market is not crashing, it already crashed and now new graduates are wandering state to state, holding various amounts of state licenses to find a job. The saturation is real and the market is finished. The very students you saw arguing against the facts are the very same students who go into the field knowing they will be screwed over in the future and still go for it, then come back later on the forums to ask if anyone found a job or to ask if anyone knows anyone else that can connect them with others. It's harsh and facts obviously do not lie.
 
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It's terrible. I actually visited the thread you were talking about and there seem to be quite a few individuals who just don't want to believe it to the point where they started to attack the OP in an extreme manner. Take my word for it, they're in serious denial and seem like they hate it when someone brings up the truth. The market is not crashing, it already crashed and now new graduates are wandering state to state, holding various amounts of state licenses to find a job. The saturation is real and the market is finished. The very students you saw arguing against the facts are the very same students who go into the field knowing they will be screwed over in the future and still go for it, then come back later on the forums to ask if anyone found a job or to ask if anyone knows anyone else that can connect them with others. It's harsh and facts obviously do not lie.

It's either that or we know how bad the job market is, so we become more competitive and do a lot of things outside of school and work. Things have the opposite effect on me. If I see something that's hard, I'll run towards it and compete. Competition is fun to me, not in a bad way, but more so I find the adrenaline thrilling and the passion for it drives me. I had a professor tell me that I had a long way to go if I wanted residency. Well guess what, I played the game right and made it in. The hospital I'm at offered all their residents to stay on full time as well after finishing because we expanded even bigger.
 
Yet every day I hear about one of my friends leaving one job to go to the next. How is that possible if there are no jobs at all? We've hired several pharmacist in the last 6 months. There is a reason some of these people can't find a job. Not trying to be rude, but there's a reason.

Before the flame war starts, allow me to summarize; I'm not saying it's all rainbows and butterflies. Just thinning the herd a bit.
 
NY/NJ/PA/CT = the job market is at Hunger Games level of crazy. The only way you land a good gig is if you have excellent connections. Like, you are best friends with directors type of connections. I graduated in 2013 and one of my classmates who has a Masters in science became a pharmacy director 2 years out of school. Turns out he was chummy with one of the professors who was also a pharmacy director at couple of hospitals before. Another classmate landed a job at Big Pharma after interning there during APPE. Found out she took another per diem gig at a hospital. She tried that whole "I don't want to lose my clinical knowledge" schtick with me, until I spoke to a nurse at the same pharma company. The nurse told me what drug safety associates really make. I was like yeah, screw clinical knowledge, your ass needed more $$$$$ to pay your bills. Last I heard, this same classmate was going back to school to get her MBA (so she could climb the corporate ladder at Pharma).

Looking back, I wish I kept in better contact with more classmates to see how they are faring as I see some are flat-out lying on LinkedIn/Facebook (I have little birds that whisper in my ear from time to time). But from what I was able to glean off of social media, most have landed in retail but they live in the rural areas. The ones in the major city that I know of, they catching pure hell right now and can't leave.

Most of the hospital positions are per-diem. That sucks.
 
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NY/NJ/PA/CT = the job market is at Hunger Games level of crazy. The only way you land a good gig is if you have excellent connections. Like, you are best friends with directors type of connections. I graduated in 2013 and one of my classmates who has a Masters in science became a pharmacy director 2 years out of school. Turns out he was chummy with one of the professors who was also a pharmacy director at couple of hospitals before. Another classmate landed a job at Big Pharma after interning there during APPE. Found out she took another per diem gig at a hospital. She tried that whole "I don't want to lose my clinical knowledge" schtick with me, until I spoke to a nurse at the same pharma company. The nurse told me what drug safety associates really make. I was like yeah, screw clinical knowledge, your ass needed more $$$$$ to pay your bills. Last I heard, this same classmate was going back to school to get her MBA (so she could climb the corporate ladder at Pharma).

Looking back, I wish I kept in better contact with more classmates to see how they are faring as I see some are flat-out lying on LinkedIn/Facebook (I have little birds that whisper in my ear from time to time). But from what I was able to glean off of social media, most have landed in retail but they live in the rural areas. The ones in the major city that I know of, they catching pure hell right now and can't leave.

Most of the hospital positions are per-diem. That sucks.

These kinds of anecdotes are terrifying. With the job market getting this bad, it makes me wonder why people are still going to pharmacy school. Maybe there really are people out there who love the subject matter of pharmacy so much that they're willing to pursue such an expensive, drawn-out degree on that basis alone, even in the face of an abysmal job market. Pharmacy is quickly becoming The Art History Degree of Healthcare.
 
These kinds of anecdotes are terrifying. With the job market getting this bad, it makes me wonder why people are still going to pharmacy school. Maybe there really are people out there who love the subject matter of pharmacy so much that they're willing to pursue such an expensive, drawn-out degree on that basis alone, even in the face of an abysmal job market. Pharmacy is quickly becoming The Art History Degree of Healthcare.

I got news for you, it will get exponentially worse. NJ opened another pharmacy school a few years back and I believe they graduated their 1st class last year, IIRC. Connecticut opened another pharmacy school not too long ago as well. Now, CT is such a small state you would think just 1 pharmacy school would be enough. NY is slated to open 2 more (I think Syracuse and Binghamton). Now mind you, the job market in NY/PA/NJ/CT is like competitive on the level of The Walking Dead. Anyone who goes into pharmacy school at this point are idiots. It's basically a massive cash grab with the schools. Good luck in landing a residency. Heck, I wish students even more luck in doing PGY1 AND 2 AND still trying to be able to get a job! I notice now techs are gaining more and more responsibilities. It's really a shame. Now, normally I wouldn't feel a way but these students are taking out Jurassic Park sized loans (I am one of those unfortunate souls). My ass was in school right around when the market shifted. I was already 2.5 years in. I convinced myself I would get internships. NOPE. Never happened. Applied for tech jobs in 3 states while in school. Never materialized (turns out that most students who didn't land internships gobbled up the tech positions with a quickness).

Wanna hear the scary part? I wasn't the only one. Me and other students convinced ourselves that all will be well. The people who got hospital jobs, had freaking good connections. Like really good connections. But for students like that, they are far and few in-between.

I agree with what another posted stated: the market isn't crashing. It already crashed.
 
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I got news for you, it will get exponentially worse. NJ opened another pharmacy school a few years back and I believe they graduated their 1st class last year, IIRC. Connecticut opened another pharmacy school not too long ago as well. Now, CT is such a small state you would think just 1 pharmacy school would be enough. NY is slated to open 2 more (I think Syracuse and Binghamton). Now mind you, the job market in NY/PA/NJ/CT is like competitive on the level of The Walking Dead. Anyone who goes into pharmacy school at this point are idiots. It's basically a massive cash grab with the schools. Good luck in landing a residency. Heck, I wish students even more luck in doing PGY1 AND 2 AND still trying to be able to get a job! I notice now techs are gaining more and more responsibilities. It's really a shame. Now, normally I wouldn't feel a way but these students are taking out Jurassic Park sized loans (I am one of those unfortunate souls). My ass was in school right around when the market shifted. I was already 2.5 years in. I convinced myself I would get internships. NOPE. Never happened. Applied for tech jobs in 3 states while in school. Never materialized (turns out that most students who didn't land internships gobbled up the tech positions with a quickness).

Wanna hear the scary part? I wasn't the only one. Me and other students convinced ourselves that all will be well. The people who got hospital jobs, had freaking good connections. Like really good connections. But for students like that, they are far and few in-between.

I agree with what another posted stated: the market isn't crashing. It already crashed.


So what year did you graduate? I am from the south and noticed a shift in the market between my first and second years of pharmacy school (09-2010). Granted the market hasn't dropped as much as I had expected yet down here.
 
Look at the pre-pharm forum here or on Reddit. These kids are young and idealistic. They won't listen when people warn them and instead choose to believe what their school or professor says, or maybe a pharmacist in their life who hasn't tried to find a job in 20 years. Look at the recent thread by the Larkin student who just accused everyone of being negative when we weren't excited about yet another unaccredited pharmacy school opening in an already saturated market.

Basically people only hear what they want to hear.
 
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San Francisco Bay Area - very difficult finding qualified pharmacists to fill positions. Kaiser just finished a hiring spree in the area this past spring (IP and OP), and I believe most of their residents have committed to positions after they complete. Specialist positions are a bit harder to fill vs. generalist as we have a huge cohort of PGY-1 graduates coming on board over the next month or so.

I had been trying to recruit for a transitions of care pharmacist for the past year and couldn't freaking find anyone. We ended up training some inpatient pharmacists as a stop-gap but we finally found someone that's on boarding next month.

C'mon people....the COL in the Bay Area isn't that. I promise we'll make it up to you in compensation!

Non-sense there are no jobs- stop spewing fake news!
 
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We all know career outcomes in pharmacy or more or less bifurcated. Retail drone or something else. It's getting harder and harder to jump from one track to the other (either direction). Also the market for pharmacists with connections will be favorable, while the market for new grads and/or those with no connections will be trash. Not exactly a surprise since that is how it is in a lot of other "professions."
 
So what year did you graduate? I am from the south and noticed a shift in the market between my first and second years of pharmacy school (09-2010). Granted the market hasn't dropped as much as I had expected yet down here.

It hasn't? When the tradtionally undesirable medium-sized cities in GA are close to becoming totally saturated, you don't consider that to be a significant drop in the job market?
 
Is there anyone on SDN who doesn't live on the east or west coast? Or GA? Lol
 
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San Francisco Bay Area - very difficult finding qualified pharmacists to fill positions. Kaiser just finished a hiring spree in the area this past spring (IP and OP), and I believe most of their residents have committed to positions after they complete. Specialist positions are a bit harder to fill vs. generalist as we have a huge cohort of PGY-1 graduates coming on board over the next month or so.

I had been trying to recruit for a transitions of care pharmacist for the past year and couldn't freaking find anyone. We ended up training some inpatient pharmacists as a stop-gap but we finally found someone that's on boarding next month.

C'mon people....the COL in the Bay Area isn't that. I promise we'll make it up to you in compensation!

where are there jobs in sf?? hook me up!! I just finished pgy1, have ca-license
 
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i went to pharmacy school in CA, moved out of state for PGY1, have applied to like 100+ jobs in CA over the past month (I do have my CA license) and dont have anything yet. WTF.
 
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i went to pharmacy school in CA, moved out of state for PGY1, have applied to like 100+ jobs in CA over the past month (I do have my CA license) and dont have anything yet. WTF.

Dang, 100+? Are you looking in specific areas only? Are you applying off hospital websites, Indeed, or through recruiters?
 
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Dang, 100+? Are you looking in specific areas only? Are you applying off hospital websites, Indeed, or through recruiters?
no, im not even looking at specific areas. im applying through all of the above.
this is ridic lol
 
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This is terrifying....and yet there are complete idiots going head first into the field now?...wth.....it's like watching a kamikaze plane.
 
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i went to pharmacy school in CA, moved out of state for PGY1, have applied to like 100+ jobs in CA over the past month (I do have my CA license) and dont have anything yet. WTF.

That's really scary, I'm curious what did all your classmates do if even pgy1 can't get anything ...
 
I wouldn't be a pharmacist outside of CA and the only places left in CA will be overstaturated in the next 3-5 years. Runaway from the field. Being paid salary for this career is highway robbery especially in retail. You will work more hours than what you are paid. At least in CA you're paid every second you are on the clock and these bogus meetings.

But i'm tired of dipsh*ts going into this field and then crying about the retail grind. It's NOT easy. People applying to pharm school that are reading this, if you don't know what hard work is, then stay out of this career or you'll be another dipsh*t who starts threads like "CVS is Hell" "Walgreen supervisor demanding too much" "Walmart is only giving me 7 techs a day now" lol
 
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It hasn't? When the tradtionally undesirable medium-sized cities in GA are close to becoming totally saturated, you don't consider that to be a significant drop in the job market?

Well I have heard slightly different stories then you and my few new grads I know do have jobs lined up in Atlanta, savanna, and Augusta. The jobs are there they just aren't abundant and you may have a harder time if you didn't prove yourself valuable/competent during intern years. My classmates and peers they graduated 1-2 years ago are switching to the public/Kroger/Walmart/sams (the better places) in desirable areas. Granted i only know a handful if new grads but the ones with just a year or three experience I have more anecdote stories. I know my local hospital in middle ga isn't starting new grads off below six figures, in fact I was surprised to learn they were getting 110-120k at a hospital
 
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i went to pharmacy school in CA, moved out of state for PGY1, have applied to like 100+ jobs in CA over the past month (I do have my CA license) and dont have anything yet. WTF.

Where did you go your PGY-1? Academic hospital? or Community teaching? Reach back to your pharmacy school days and pull some of those connections haha. They'll be able to help. I found that I'm not a big fan of CA because of how expensive everything is, although my family is down there. I'm falling in love with the PNW haha.
 
Well I have heard slightly different stories then you and my few new grads I know do have jobs lined up in Atlanta, savanna, and Augusta. The jobs are there they just aren't abundant and you may have a harder time if you didn't prove yourself valuable/competent during intern years. My classmates and peers they graduated 1-2 years ago are switching to the public/Kroger/Walmart/sams (the better places) in desirable areas. Granted i only know a handful if new grads but the ones with just a year or three experience I have more anecdote stories. I know my local hospital in middle ga isn't starting new grads off below six figures, in fact I was surprised to learn they were getting 110-120k at a hospital

Friends of mine did the same exact thing, which is why we're able to stay in and compete haha. Hence why the new grads, at least the strong ones are grabbing the jobs left and right. Unfortunately if you didn't prove yourself back then / if you don't keep up with the game, you end up losing.
 
So what year did you graduate? I am from the south and noticed a shift in the market between my first and second years of pharmacy school (09-2010). Granted the market hasn't dropped as much as I had expected yet down here.

I graduated in 2013. So around 2010, like you, I noticed the shift (I started Pharm school in August of 2009). Since I am from NYC, I went to school in another state. Literally, the pharmacy intern positions dried up from 2010 onwards, even in NYC. Found out later on that many schools in the Northeast corridor that were built 4-6 years prior, started graduating their 1st class around 2009-2010. Funny, we both noticed the shift around this time period. I returned back to NYC and let's just say it was a nightmare. Looked into relocating but nothing really came through (I am not moving unless I get a job offer. Some posters said they moved in hopes of finding work elsewhere....nope. I need a job offer in my hand before i pick up and move clear across country or to the middle of nowhere). I am not young like other pharmacy students, so I can't just up and move at a drop of dime. Another friend of mine graduated pharm school in 2005 and has been in retail since. Her husband is a pharmacist too. They have 2 beautiful kids. Wife works in retail (WAGS) and hubby works in hospital. She said retail sucks terribly but what else can she do? She needs the money to care for kids and pay school fees and mortgage. Imagine if one of them gets laid off especially in this job market? Disaster.
 
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I graduated in 2013. So around 2010, like you, I noticed the shift (I started Pharm school in August of 2009). Since I am from NYC, I went to school in another state. Literally, the pharmacy intern positions dried up from 2010 onwards, even in NYC. Found out later on that many schools in the Northeast corridor that were built 4-6 years prior, started graduating their 1st class around 2009-2010. Funny, we both noticed the shift around this time period. I returned back to NYC and let's just say it was a nightmare. Looked into relocating but nothing really came through (I am not moving unless I get a job offer. Some posters said they moved in hopes of finding work elsewhere....nope. I need a job offer in my hand before i pick up and move clear across country or to the middle of nowhere). I am not young like other pharmacy students, so I can't just up and move at a drop of dime. Another friend of mine graduated pharm school in 2005 and has been in retail since. Her husband is a pharmacist too. They have 2 beautiful kids. Wife works in retail (WAGS) and hubby works in hospital. She said retail sucks terribly but what else can she do? She needs the money to care for kids and pay school fees and mortgage. Imagine if one of them gets laid off especially in this job market? Disaster.

I graduated the same year and feel for you. However, I have very little sympathy for anyone starting school in the last few years as the job market has been apparent. Heck if I was 2 years younger I would have gone a different route. I've been fortunate however and am no longer in retail and enjoy my job. Retail has changed a lot from when I started as a tech in early 2007.
 
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Well I have heard slightly different stories then you and my few new grads I know do have jobs lined up in Atlanta, savanna, and Augusta. The jobs are there they just aren't abundant and you may have a harder time if you didn't prove yourself valuable/competent during intern years. My classmates and peers they graduated 1-2 years ago are switching to the public/Kroger/Walmart/sams (the better places) in desirable areas. Granted i only know a handful if new grads but the ones with just a year or three experience I have more anecdote stories. I know my local hospital in middle ga isn't starting new grads off below six figures, in fact I was surprised to learn they were getting 110-120k at a hospital

I suppose it's good to hear that some new graduates are able to get jobs in non-BFE areas, but I can tell you I'm not making up what I've heard about other graduates having a harder time (unless I'm just being flat-out lied to). The increasingly high-stakes nature of the pharmacy profession and the job market is just not for me. Also, over the last few months, I looked at local job listings for pharmacy student interns, and I was shocked to find out that there are basically no intern positions left here unless you're willing to work for CVS, Walgreens, or unless you know someone who will go out of their way to create a position for you. I was told by a hospital DOP that students are commuting anywhere from 45 mins - 2 hours away to work a few days per month as interns. It would be interesting to see some objective data on the number of recent who either had to move to a BFE region of the state or to a different state entirely. Even if someone can hustle and work as an intern and "out-compete" the other interns and manage to secure a job SOMEWHERE in the state, I just don't think it's worth it, especially when you consider that someone also has to spend six figures on a pharmacy degree and 4-6 years (depending on whether someone completes a residency or not) in addition to the hustling part.

When you think about it, it begs the question (regardless of someone's state), if hustling/interning/who you know is going to play such a huge factor in determining whether someone gets a job, then why not save $100k+ in tuition and 4-6 years of graduate school/residency and pursue a less costly and less time-intensive career that emphasizes proficiency with those same factors?
 
Another friend of mine graduated pharm school in 2005 and has been in retail since. Her husband is a pharmacist too. They have 2 beautiful kids. Wife works in retail (WAGS) and hubby works in hospital. She said retail sucks terribly but what else can she do? She needs the money to care for kids and pay school fees and mortgage. Imagine if one of them gets laid off especially in this job market? Disaster.
You mean a family can't live on $120k/year?
 
You mean a family can't live on $120k/year?

Haha, top 10% in the US is like $100k, but in SF and one other county just to the south of it, $105,350 is considered low income for a family of 4.

Let that one sink in for a minute.

(HUD 2017 threshold)


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Don't forget student loan payments for which you are not allowed to deduct interest from your taxes because you make "too much."
 
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