How about a good ol' fashioned "what are my chances" thread?

[redoitall]

I think it's safe to say you're going to match but the big question is where? Unlike many fields, location is much of a bigger issue in rad onc (more for residency but also for permanent jobs) and that limitation may be your greatest weakness.

In regards to your stats: Let's just say a lot of PD's will be sending you love letters!

Thx RadOnc21 for taking time to provide your input. I have long hesitated between Rads and RadOnc. Both have a tough job market, but I feel that Rads offers more possibilities in term of location. Yet, RadOnc is more interesting to me and despite geographic limitations, I think I would be happier in academic RadOnc. Being a parents of two, I also worry about going to a place where my wife and I can afford "enough house" for our family and that alone makes a lot of places out of reach (essentially coasts and attractive cities), with good schools. Texas and Dallas in particular has been great so far for these reasons (OK I commute to work and hate traffic). Any state and city that is not usually seen as desirable for young applicants will likely be an option for me. So I am very open. But it is true that now, my wife has a job here, my kids go to a great school, and we have a house, which is not a palace but decent and spacious enough to make do for the time being. Thus, sticking around is simply the least disruptive thing to do if possible. My wife is not opposed to a new start but we know that it will be an emotional roller coaster, should I have to move because some separation (at least temporary) will take place, which will be awful for us and particularly my kids.
Anyway I am comforted to know that I do have a shot at this career. I can't wait to start 4th year and get all that match process started (and over with)...
Thanks again to all willing to provide an input. It is much appreciated.

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[Xander Cruz]

Hi guys, new WAMC post.

1st/2nd yr grades: all HP except for 1 H and 2 P.
step 1: 239
3rd year grades: unfortunately, looking to be: IM-P, Neuro - HP, Psych - HP, Surgery - P, OB/GYN - HP, Peds - H
Research: 2 pubs - 1 derm review article, another a rheumatology chart review. 2 other research experiences that did not result in publication.
EC involvement: effectively none.

Honestly...I think I'm in the bottom half of the class

I realllly reallly want to go into Rad Onc though. Is there any way you think my app could be salvaged to match into it? Or at this point have I passed the event horizon of not being able to match Rad Onc?

Thanks!

Just a heads up Muhali, if you do pursue RadOnc, also be reasonable about where you apply for Prelim programs. I have a friend (also MD-PhD) who had very similar board scores/research etc. as I did, he got a ton of great Radiology invites, but got smoked in his Prelim applications because he had a Pass in Medicine (and Surgery too I think) and lukewarm M3 evals. I erroneously assumed (as did he) that, because he was competitive for his advanced program, he would also be competitive for Prelim/TY programs. This is definitely not the case.

(it worked out for him, he stayed at our home institution for both)

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Redoitall, I doubt staying in Texas will be a problem for you if that is what you want. They have a lot of programs there, and from looking at the people who matched this year it looks like many of the programs like Texas people. If you absolutely want to stay in Texas you can increase your already high chances by doing your away rotations there (pick like 2 places), plus your home program. This will give you a very solid shot of making this happen. Let programs know of this intention up front, and how much this means to you and your family. Although Kansas is not a bad program, you won't be sniffing it. Good luck!

 

[redoitall]

If you absolutely want to stay in Texas you can increase your already high chances by doing your away rotations there (pick like 2 places), plus your home program.

Thanks a lot Doc. Duly noted. I certainly will do so. I am sure to do at least 1 away (or at least to try). Two may be pushing it in my case, but it is not out of the realm of possibilities.
Thanks again for the valuable input.

 

[ExLapForYou]

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[docbrown4]

Hey all, I would also really appreciate some feedback!

US MD mid-tier med school
Step 1: ~250, not AOA
Preclinical grades: mostly Bs, couple As couple Cs
Clinical Grades: mostly Bs, few Cs, good comments
Research: 3 rad onc papers (1 first author, couple middle), 3 non-rad onc papers (middle author), 1 rad onc abstract, 2 rad onc invited presentations (that someone else presented), working on more research now
Leadership: not much

Going on 2-3 aways. My question is basically how much will my grades and lack of extracurriculars hurt me? Similar to above, I'm trying to decide if I should apply to a back-up specialty. Again, I really appreciate any input.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Hey everyone, in the process of scheduling aways. Would love any input, especially since I don't have a home program!

US MD at 3rd tier school with no home program, but community group with "top 3" pedigree
Low 250s step 1, step 2 tbd, won't be aoa
Pre-Clinical: mix of As/Bs
Clerkship: B in medicine and peds, A in all others; really excellent comments from all rotations
Publications: 1 radonc poster (local conference), 2 non-radonc posters (1 selected for oral at national conf), 2 non-radonc non-1st author basic science pubs, 1 radonc chart review either accepted or in review by interviews, high chance of radonc research in my July away
Leadership: onc group, other diverse and involved experiences
LoR: community research mentor with top of the line pedigree, aways x 2 or 3
Went to top 10 undergrad if that matters

For my 3-4 aways I am targeting in no specific order: baylor, vanderbilt, UF, UVA, emory, UCSF, umiami, cleveland clinic, mt sinai, colorado, UCLA, washington. I have accepted and plan to go to a few in the list already.

My questions:
1. Are my aways the right kind of programs to be going to? I'm looking for places with SOME chance of matching at (and good letter writers)?
2. Overall chances at the match...should I be worried enough to actually prepare to be in my backup specialty??

much appreciated

Apply broadly. I recommend applying all programs unless you really do not see yourself being somewhere at all and would rather not match. I would do 3 aways. The places you have all seem like pretty solid places. I would pick one in different geographical locations throughout the country to open up doors in those areas. Don't do them all in the same place, specially not in the same location of your home program. So pick something like: Northeast, coastal south (or Cali/Colorado), Texas or Midwest, coastal south (or cali colorado), north east....whatever geographical combinations your are most interested in (you get the point). All those programs you mention will give you a pretty good shot to match at that institution if you rotate well and are generally liked. By looking at the list of who those institutions have matched, most have taken a rotator recently.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Hey all, I would also really appreciate some feedback!

US MD mid-tier med school
Step 1: ~250, not AOA
Preclinical grades: mostly Bs, couple As couple Cs
Clinical Grades: mostly Bs, few Cs, good comments
Research: 3 rad onc papers (1 first author, couple middle), 3 non-rad onc papers (middle author), 1 rad onc abstract, 2 rad onc invited presentations (that someone else presented), working on more research now
Leadership: not much

Going on 2-3 aways. My question is basically how much will my grades and lack of extracurriculars hurt me? Similar to above, I'm trying to decide if I should apply to a back-up specialty. Again, I really appreciate any input.

Same advice as above. Apply BROADLY and do 3 aways. Be a likeable normal decent human being in those aways and you will be fine. The grades will hurt you in some instutions but who cares. Others will bite. Just be prepared to explain it to one or two interviewers who may bring it up. Most hardly look at your file besides your letters, it seemed (can't tell you how many asked me questions which were literally right in my file). Good luck!

 

[docbrown4]

Same advice as above. Apply BROADLY and do 3 aways. Be a likeable normal decent human being in those aways and you will be fine. The grades will hurt you in some instutions but who cares. Others will bite. Just be prepared to explain it to one or two interviewers who may bring it up. Most hardly look at your file besides your letters, it seemed (can't tell you how many asked me questions which were literally right in my file). Good luck!

Thank you!

 

[redoitall]

Redoitall, I doubt staying in Texas will be a problem for you if that is what you want. They have a lot of programs there, and from looking at the people who matched this year it looks like many of the programs like Texas people. If you absolutely want to stay in Texas you can increase your already high chances by doing your away rotations there (pick like 2 places), plus your home program. This will give you a very solid shot of making this happen. Let programs know of this intention up front, and how much this means to you and your family. Although Kansas is not a bad program, you won't be sniffing it. Good luck!

So an update. I will be doing an away at MDACC in Late Sept. I am quite happy about that opportunity, although I am going in with little to no hope as far as matching there. However, I do hope to maximize my time by 1) learning from their settings and expertise as much as I can and 2) hoping to get a letter from someone that will help my chances at matching anywhere! I will be doing 2 weeks thoracic and 2 weeks head and neck. I can't wait.
Any input regarding how to best approach the letter situation. I mean two weeks on a service (hopefully with the same attending) is not very long. Any suggestion?

 

[Sheldor]

So an update. I will be doing an away at MDACC in Late Sept. I am quite happy about that opportunity, although I am going in with little to no hope as far as matching there. However, I do hope to maximize my time by 1) learning from their settings and expertise as much as I can and 2) hoping to get a letter from someone that will help my chances at matching anywhere! I will be doing 2 weeks thoracic and 2 weeks head and neck. I can't wait.
Any input regarding how to best approach the letter situation. I mean two weeks on a service (hopefully with the same attending) is not very long. Any suggestion?

I would introduce yourself on day 1, and say something like, "Hi, my name is redoitall and I will be rotating with you for a couple weeks. Do you a couple minutes to talk? Awesome. What are your expectations for medical students who rotate through with you? Uh huh. Uh Huh, that makes sense. That is really helpful, thanks. I am very excited to work with you and I've heard from Dr. XXXX that this is a great rotation for me. Also, I know I will only be working with you for two weeks but I'd really like to earn a letter of recommendation from you if you feel comfortable. If it is okay, can we meet at the end of the rotation and discuss applications and my performance working with you? Thanks!"

I think this is key because it tunes them in to pay extra attention to you for the short time you are with them. Warning though, they will pay closer attention!

Other caveat, if you can get a research project with someone and work hard on that, it often leads to more details letters of recommendation.

 

[redoitall]

OK thanks Sheldor. This is very helpful. I hope this won't come off as presumptuous, although I am sure they know the game...
I will keep that in mind. Also, this is assuming I will be working with the same attending for each 2 week block. I do hope it is the case.
Thanks again for taking the time.

 

[Phantom1]

I would introduce yourself on day 1, and say something like, "Hi, my name is redoitall and I will be rotating with you for a couple weeks. Do you a couple minutes to talk? Awesome. What are your expectations for medical students who rotate through with you? Uh huh. Uh Huh, that makes sense. That is really helpful, thanks. I am very excited to work with you and I've heard from Dr. XXXX that this is a great rotation for me. Also, I know I will only be working with you for two weeks but I'd really like to earn a letter of recommendation from you if you feel comfortable. If it is okay, can we meet at the end of the rotation and discuss applications and my performance working with you? Thanks!"

I think this is key because it tunes them in to pay extra attention to you for the short time you are with them. Warning though, they will pay closer attention!

Other caveat, if you can get a research project with someone and work hard on that, it often leads to more details letters of recommendation.

Agree... I might wait to ask for a rec letter until after the first week or two.. might a bit much asking at your first interaction with someone. Most likely you will be with the same attending for 2 weeks. That is actually a longer time than many other away rotations which can give you 1 week or even change every day. Away rotations are pretty difficult. Make sure you pair well with the resident on service as well. Be prepared before hand, maintain your cool, and #1 make sure you are extremely nice to every single person that you meet..

 

[Sheldor]

Agree... I might wait to ask for a rec letter until after the first week or two.. might a bit much asking at your first interaction with someone. Most likely you will be with the same attending for 2 weeks. That is actually a longer time than many other away rotations which can give you 1 week or even change every day. Away rotations are pretty difficult. Make sure you pair well with the resident on service as well. Be prepared before hand, maintain your cool, and #1 make sure you are extremely nice to every single person that you meet..

Re-reading my quote it is every so slightly ambiguous. I was really suggesting letting the attending know up front that you will in the future be asking for a letter. That way they can have it in the back of their mind. It definitely makes for an uncomfortable situation, but I found attendings responded better to the notification that they were going to be asked for a letter in the future than they did to just being asked about a letter after only a week or two. As usual though, your mileage may vary.

 

[redoitall]

OK thanks guys. I guess I will just go and play nice with everyone. I just hope to have a chance to get to know the attending for at least 2 weeks. With less than that, it is really difficult to demonstrate anything. Anyway, and hopefully, they understand that for many candidates, the only thing that we shoot for is a letter. I guess I will play it by ear and likely wait till mid-block feedback after the first week. I will make sure to request to have one at least, this way, it will be an opportunity to mention the letter if I have not done it, and will get me a chance to fine tune my performance with some direction in mind...
Thank you again for the input.

 

[sunealoneal]

Hey, not sure if this is the right place for this but at this point I'm sort of tossing a Hail Mary.

I'm a DO student, bottom half of my class. Practice NBMEs leading up to my Step 1 were both 228. About to start my 3rd year.

Research:
A project that yielded 2 poster presentations and an oral presentation.

I secured a month-long research position at a big institution that starts next Wednesday. I sent an email and left a few voicemails for the doctor I'm working with about all this, but I think he's been very busy.

I feel like I'm at a crossroads for my career. I'm prepared to "give it my all" by doing the research month, giving a bulk of my rotations an oncology bent, doing more research through 3rd and 4th year, etc. I'm just so very afraid that all this will lead to me being unmatched with no "back up" field in reach. I know that whether or not I attend this research month and press on trying to get into this field is ultimately my decision, but I guess I was hoping to hear the anecdote "yes I know a DO with a mediocre step 1 score who matched into rad onc". I've come across posts about lower step 1 scores not being a deal breaker, and I've also come across posts about the DO status not being a deal breaker, but not both.


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[SRC1987]

Hey, not sure if this is the right place for this but at this point I'm sort of tossing a Hail Mary.

I'm a DO student, bottom half of my class. Practice NBMEs leading up to my Step 1 were both 228. About to start my 3rd year.

Research:
A project that yielded 2 poster presentations and an oral presentation.

I secured a month-long research position at a big institution that starts next Wednesday. I sent an email and left a few voicemails for the doctor I'm working with about all this, but I think he's been very busy.

I feel like I'm at a crossroads for my career. I'm prepared to "give it my all" by doing the research month, giving a bulk of my rotations an oncology bent, doing more research through 3rd and 4th year, etc. I'm just so very afraid that all this will lead to me being unmatched with no "back up" field in reach. I know that whether or not I attend this research month and press on trying to get into this field is ultimately my decision, but I guess I was hoping to hear the anecdote "yes I know a DO with a mediocre step 1 score who matched into rad onc". I've come across posts about lower step 1 scores not being a deal breaker, and I've also come across posts about the DO status not being a deal breaker, but not both.


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When are you scheduled to take step 1? Is there more time to study and improve?
The research position you have is a great opportunity- I did it- I'm a DO. They will have a good project for you when you get there and your time will be well spent. It's very hard to find a mentor like him that will hand you a, likely manuscript worthy, project. If you plan on pursuing Rad Onc I would stick with it.

It's okay to be nervous, you still have time to put a great CV and competitive application together. For your 4th year make sure you schedule away rotations at places you stand a chance at matching. Get to know the people, make connections, and this is most likely to lead to a successful match.

If your step 1 does end up being lower than average I recommend dual applying. Honestly, even if your step 1 is 240 I would still recommend dual applying for safety. I came across 6-7 DO's on the audition trail and only 3 of us matched. So having a back up plan is important. Most people consider another specialty like internal medicine- you don't need audition rotations to get interviews and there's a lot of programs.

 

[firewicket]

When are you scheduled to take step 1? Is there more time to study and improve?
The research position you have is a great opportunity- I did it- I'm a DO. They will have a good project for you when you get there and your time will be well spent. It's very hard to find a mentor like him that will hand you a, likely manuscript worthy, project. If you plan on pursuing Rad Onc I would stick with it.

It's okay to be nervous, you still have time to put a great CV and competitive application together. For your 4th year make sure you schedule away rotations at places you stand a chance at matching. Get to know the people, make connections, and this is most likely to lead to a successful match.

If your step 1 does end up being lower than average I recommend dual applying. Honestly, even if your step 1 is 240 I would still recommend dual applying for safety. I came across 6-7 DO's on the audition trail and only 3 of us matched. So having a back up plan is important. Most people consider another specialty like internal medicine- you don't need audition rotations to get interviews and there's a lot of programs.

Dood, check out the "canaries in a coal mine" and the "ASTRO panel session on rad onc US labor market." If you see a tree about to slam into the road you better take a sharp turn in the other direction. There is also a recent red journal publication from leaders in the field that paints a more dismal picture:

http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(16)30289-9/abstract

I'd recommend getting your hands on that paper, reading it, and thinking long and hard about if it's worth it. From a medical student perspective it is easy to lose sight of where a field may be 5-10 years down the road...but in reality that is when you'll be in early practice. It easier to make a choice where you are now rather than when you are in residency and looking at a job market in Idaho/hospital systems owning and taking advantage of you.

You will end up working your butt of for the next 7 years with limited opportunities at the end of the tunnel.

I would urge you to check out another field if you are that early on in training.

 

[sunealoneal]

When are you scheduled to take step 1? Is there more time to study and improve?
The research position you have is a great opportunity- I did it- I'm a DO. They will have a good project for you when you get there and your time will be well spent. It's very hard to find a mentor like him that will hand you a, likely manuscript worthy, project. If you plan on pursuing Rad Onc I would stick with it.

It's okay to be nervous, you still have time to put a great CV and competitive application together. For your 4th year make sure you schedule away rotations at places you stand a chance at matching. Get to know the people, make connections, and this is most likely to lead to a successful match.

If your step 1 does end up being lower than average I recommend dual applying. Honestly, even if your step 1 is 240 I would still recommend dual applying for safety. I came across 6-7 DO's on the audition trail and only 3 of us matched. So having a back up plan is important. Most people consider another specialty like internal medicine- you don't need audition rotations to get interviews and there's a lot of programs.

Unfortunately I caved and took the exam a couple days after that last NBME.

Thanks for the encouraging words, it means a lot!

I didn't consider fields that don't typically need audition rotations. That's a comforting idea.


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[sunealoneal]

Dood, check out the "canaries in a coal mine" and the "ASTRO panel session on rad onc US labor market." If you see a tree about to slam into the road you better take a sharp turn in the other direction. There is also a recent red journal publication from leaders in the field that paints a more dismal picture:

http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(16)30289-9/abstract

I'd recommend getting your hands on that paper, reading it, and thinking long and hard about if it's worth it. From a medical student perspective it is easy to lose sight of where a field may be 5-10 years down the road...but in reality that is when you'll be in early practice. It easier to make a choice where you are now rather than when you are in residency and looking at a job market in Idaho/hospital systems owning and taking advantage of you.

You will end up working your butt of for the next 7 years with limited opportunities at the end of the tunnel.

I would urge you to check out another field if you are that early on in training.

Yeah that's probably *the* major anxiety I have with all of this. If it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't have hesitated about pushing on.


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[SRC1987]

Dood, check out the "canaries in a coal mine" and the "ASTRO panel session on rad onc US labor market." If you see a tree about to slam into the road you better take a sharp turn in the other direction. There is also a recent red journal publication from leaders in the field that paints a more dismal picture:

http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(16)30289-9/abstract

I'd recommend getting your hands on that paper, reading it, and thinking long and hard about if it's worth it. From a medical student perspective it is easy to lose sight of where a field may be 5-10 years down the road...but in reality that is when you'll be in early practice. It easier to make a choice where you are now rather than when you are in residency and looking at a job market in Idaho/hospital systems owning and taking advantage of you.

You will end up working your butt of for the next 7 years with limited opportunities at the end of the tunnel.

I would urge you to check out another field if you are that early on in training.

I'm not the medical student, I've already matched and have been in the field for a few years in other capacities. I have seen the publications and what you are talking about. There is a problem and the field is changing. However, all these residency spots are going to match for many years to come. I would rather encourage a guy who is genuinely interested in the field, but well informed about what is going on- which this student is.

He's set up for a good research rotation at the beginning of his 3rd yr. I said push forward with it and evaluate all his options.

 

[SRC1987]

Unfortunately I caved and took the exam a couple days after that last NBME.

Thanks for the encouraging words, it means a lot!

I didn't consider fields that don't typically need audition rotations. That's a comforting idea.


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You're just starting third year. Do the research month and make the most of it. When you get your step 1 score back it might be a little more clear. Not to mention you've never done any medical school rotations lol. Do all your cores and see what you like. Some time spent in rad onc does not make you ineligible for another residency.

 

[StrongSide]

How important, exactly, is Step 2 CK?

I got a 255+ on Step 1, but my school requires me to take CK before a research year. Obviously going to try my best, but haven't been getting the kind of results I want yet and I'm a little afraid I'll go down from my Step 1 score. Would appreciate any thoughts on this.

 

[Tungsten5]

Hello,

I'll admit this - I am primarily interested in EM. I am a new 3rd year who did a lot better on Step 1 than I expected (253) and am now exploring options I thought were beyond my potential. I go to a strictly pass fail average MD state school so we don't have any AOAs or class rank either. I have one pretty good orthopedic based paper, but I am 5th author. I am in the middle of an EM research project which should net me first author. I am pretty social and like to think I get along well with everyone.

I'm going to be getting some shadowing done in the next few months between my rotations. Let's say I fall in love with Rad Onc. What would I have to do to make myself competitive? Besides my Step 1, I know I am average in every way on paper. Is it too late to consider Rad Onc? (wouldn't be able to get research done?)

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Hello,

I'll admit this - I am primarily interested in EM. I am a new 3rd year who did a lot better on Step 1 than I expected (253) and am now exploring options I thought were beyond my potential. I go to a strictly pass fail average MD state school so we don't have any AOAs or class rank either. I have one pretty good orthopedic based paper, but I am 5th author. I am in the middle of an EM research project which should net me first author. I am pretty social and like to think I get along well with everyone.

I'm going to be getting some shadowing done in the next few months between my rotations. Let's say I fall in love with Rad Onc. What would I have to do to make myself competitive? Besides my Step 1, I know I am average in every way on paper. Is it too late to consider Rad Onc? (wouldn't be able to get research done?)

I think you should first do some research on the field and truly understand why this is something you would consider going into before you apply. There is a huge difference between Rad Onc and EM. With that said, if you are seriously interested, you should start with a meeting with either the chair or program director and go from there. They may be able to put you on a research project and then you can schedule your rotations accordingly going into 4th year.

 

[redraider88]

I'm in the opposite boat as Tungsten. Step was a big disappointment for me (scored 225 despite all of my recent NBMEs being 240+). Am I dead in the water? I was hoping to work with our department this year and get 1-2 first author pubs (nothing huge, but something), but it really seems like an uphill battle. I'm 2nd quartile in our class, not AOA but just finished an MPH. I'm wondering if putting in the extra legwork and doing a few aways with less academic programs (do those even exist in Rad Onc?) could help close the gap. Any thoughts? I'd love to hear if there are any programs with more of a focus on patient care rather than research publication, since I'm much more likely to be the resident who gets hired on because patients love me, rather than one whose name frequents the Red journal. Again, any advice would be great. Y'all are a great group of doctors.

 

[mm241008]

DO student
Step 1=250s
Top of class in preclinical years 1&2
Clinical grades all A's
3 aways at mid tiers in the midwest where I would ideally like to stay
Research/Publications etc=NONE
Avg volunteer activities

Didn't truly discover this specialty until 3/4 way through 3rd year but knew right away it was what I wanted to do. I have tried recently to get on research projects within the field but they all have fallen through. The match data showing applicants with a crap load of research, publications, abstracts etc is extremely worrisome that I have a slim chance to match (especially as a DO). Similar to redraider I am great with people/patients and am less concerned with having my name in publications. Can an impressive audition and good clinical skills be enough to overcome my complete lack of research?

 

[RadOncDoc21]

DO student
Step 1=250s
Top of class in preclinical years 1&2
Clinical grades all A's
3 aways at mid tiers in the midwest where I would ideally like to stay
Research/Publications etc=NONE
Avg volunteer activities

Didn't truly discover this specialty until 3/4 way through 3rd year but knew right away it was what I wanted to do. I have tried recently to get on research projects within the field but they all have fallen through. The match data showing applicants with a crap load of research, publications, abstracts etc is extremely worrisome that I have a slim chance to match (especially as a DO). Similar to redraider I am great with people/patients and am less concerned with having my name in publications. Can an impressive audition and good clinical skills be enough to overcome my complete lack of research?

I think overall you're in a great position. Audition well and work on a good 1-3 research projects. You should do at least 3 away electives.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I'm in the opposite boat as Tungsten. Step was a big disappointment for me (scored 225 despite all of my recent NBMEs being 240+). Am I dead in the water? I was hoping to work with our department this year and get 1-2 first author pubs (nothing huge, but something), but it really seems like an uphill battle. I'm 2nd quartile in our class, not AOA but just finished an MPH. I'm wondering if putting in the extra legwork and doing a few aways with less academic programs (do those even exist in Rad Onc?) could help close the gap. Any thoughts? I'd love to hear if there are any programs with more of a focus on patient care rather than research publication, since I'm much more likely to be the resident who gets hired on because patients love me, rather than one whose name frequents the Red journal. Again, any advice would be great. Y'all are a great group of doctors.

not "dead in the water" but you have to be realistic with your approach to the application process. You need to do at least 2 aways and 3 would be best. These should be at programs where you can realistically have a good chance to match. I would not recommend going to "top" programs. Quite frankly, i think very few people benefit from rotations at these programs anyways. Pick middle of the road places in geographical regions you like and go there and let your personality shine, get a good letter and repeat. Apply to all programs and go on all interviews. You need to get a project in to put in your application, have something to talk about. Good luck

 

[ColoRadiful]

I would love to get some insight into my application. I am a realist and not to sure I stand a chance. I attend a mid tier MD school without a rad onc residency, average grades but not AOA, maybe gold humanism, 245 step 1, awaiting step 2 scores, will have two rad onc rotations (MDACC & home school), minimal research (2 case reports, working a rad on project that won't be published anytime soon), lots of volunteer stuff. Do I stand a chance? My research is weak and I know how much they love research.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I would love to get some insight into my application. I am a realist and not to sure I stand a chance. I attend a mid tier MD school without a rad onc residency, average grades but not AOA, maybe gold humanism, 245 step 1, awaiting step 2 scores, will have two rad onc rotations (MDACC & home school), minimal research (2 case reports, working a rad on project that won't be published anytime soon), lots of volunteer stuff. Do I stand a chance? My research is weak and I know how much they love research.

do another away

 

[Lamount]

I would love to get some insight into my application. I am a realist and not to sure I stand a chance. I attend a mid tier MD school without a rad onc residency, average grades but not AOA, maybe gold humanism, 245 step 1, awaiting step 2 scores, will have two rad onc rotations (MDACC & home school), minimal research (2 case reports, working a rad on project that won't be published anytime soon), lots of volunteer stuff. Do I stand a chance? My research is weak and I know how much they love research.

Agree with thecarbonionangle... do another away, preferably a low-mid tier program in a geographic region where you would like to end up.

 

[ColoRadiful]

Agree with thecarbonionangle... do another away, preferably a low-mid tier program in a geographic region where you would like to end up.

Thanks for the advice

 

[evilbooyaa]

Question about charting outcomes 2014: Rad onc has high averages on step exams, but most people match even with sub-par scores. What gives?

Those with the lower step scores generally have significant research experience (dedicated research years, PhDs in the field, etc) to attempt to make up for their Step 1. At least from anecdotal experience.
Luckily for those who are interested in the field without a stellar step score, there are ways to get into the field.

 

[metallica81788]

The notion of doing 3 aways is very huge, especially if you're borderline. Don't always bank on a home program either, even if they've told you something. People who are wondering whether they may or may not match need to get the idea of MDACC, MSK, Harvard aways for letters out of their head and just do rotations at mid/low-tier and not-as-academic places. Find geographic locations and/or programs that could work for you and rotate their as if it were your chance to match. That's how a lot of borderline people get places. My program definitely views known quantities as better than one-day interview stars.

3 aways, ball out, get good letters (even if not from big names), apply broadly, kill it.

 

[Sheldor]

The notion of doing 3 aways is very huge, especially if you're borderline. Don't always bank on a home program either, even if they've told you something. People who are wondering whether they may or may not match need to get the idea of MDACC, MSK, Harvard aways for letters out of their head and just do rotations at mid/low-tier and not-as-academic places. Find geographic locations and/or programs that could work for you and rotate their as if it were your chance to match. That's how a lot of borderline people get places. My program definitely views known quantities as better than one-day interview stars.

3 aways, ball out, get good letters (even if not from big names), apply broadly, kill it.

Couldn't agree more! Plus, there are a lot of big name people at mid-tier programs, so if you are strategic you can get the best of both worlds!

 

[IgM]

Would love some thoughts on my situation: Mid-tier state school, Step 1 220's (I know, I couldn't believe it), and strong research/unique angle with one publication. Currently doing one away due to scheduling issues at my restrictive school. Is there anything I can do to reach out to other schools and let them know it's not that I didn't WANT to come rotate, I just wasn't allowed? Are there such things as shorter (~2 wk) rotations that I could fit in over a break?

 

[radoncftw]

Are there any current residents or attendings who (semi)-recently went through the match process who would be willing to PM a copy of their personal statement?

Having trouble putting mine together with no home department / PD for guidance, and I know it's crunch time.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Would love some thoughts on my situation: Mid-tier state school, Step 1 220's (I know, I couldn't believe it), and strong research/unique angle with one publication. Currently doing one away due to scheduling issues at my restrictive school. Is there anything I can do to reach out to other schools and let them know it's not that I didn't WANT to come rotate, I just wasn't allowed? Are there such things as shorter (~2 wk) rotations that I could fit in over a break?

I remember something about Northwestern and A&M having a 2 week option. Unfortunately, most places do a month. You need to apply to every program. Your step 1 will keep you out of some places. Have a back up plan.

 

[radiaterMike]

Are there any current residents or attendings who (semi)-recently went through the match process who would be willing to PM a copy of their personal statement?

Having trouble putting mine together with no home department / PD for guidance, and I know it's crunch time.

Your advisory dean should be offering advice on this. Don't be too long, too sappy or too boring. Also be honest.


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[wubba-lubba-dub-dub]

Hi all, what are my chances?

MS3 at top 10 institution.
Step 1: 256
Step 2: TBD
Grades: All honors except pediatrics.
Research anticipated: 1st authored ASTRO abstract, 2nd authored ASTRO abstract, anticipated 2nd authored rad-onc publication, anticipated 1st authored non-rad onc pub during a research year, as well as one first and one second authored publication from undergrad, and about 12 total posters, talks, seminars, etc, from undergrad. My rad onc research is based at one of these institutions: MSKCC, MD Anderson, or Harvard (won't say which for anonymity).
Rotations planned: 1) at home institution. 2) at same place as the rad onc research. These are probably top two choices for residency but I still have to figure this out.
Letters anticipated: 1) research rad onc letter, 2) home clinical rad onc letter, 3) away clinical rad onc letter. The first two are from well known people.

What are my chances at MSKCC, MD Anderson, or Harvard? What about at other great programs like UMich, UPenn, Stanford, and UCSF?

No phd...need to work on that if you have an off month

 

[evilbooyaa]

Hi all, what are my chances?

MS3 at top 10 institution.
Step 1: 256
Step 2: TBD
Grades: All honors except pediatrics.
Research anticipated: 1st authored ASTRO abstract, 2nd authored ASTRO abstract, anticipated 2nd authored rad-onc publication, anticipated 1st authored non-rad onc pub during a research year, as well as one first and one second authored publication from undergrad, and about 12 total posters, talks, seminars, etc, from undergrad. My rad onc research is based at one of these institutions: MSKCC, MD Anderson, or Harvard (won't say which for anonymity).
Rotations planned: 1) at home institution. 2) at same place as the rad onc research. These are probably top two choices for residency but I still have to figure this out.
Letters anticipated: 1) research rad onc letter, 2) home clinical rad onc letter, 3) away clinical rad onc letter. The first two are from well known people.

What are my chances at MSKCC, MD Anderson, or Harvard? What about at other great programs like UMich, UPenn, Stanford, and UCSF?

Really impossible to answer your question unless you happen to know the PD or someone else important at one of those institutions. All you can do is apply and pray for an interview. You probably do need some more Rad Onc research to really cement you as a front-runner for a top program, but in terms of matching in Rad Onc you're going to be fine.

 

[radicalonc]

Hi all,

Up until recently, I was thinking I would end up in IM but now I'm thinking rad onc. It's pretty late in the year, so I'm not opposed to taking a year off before 4th year to get some research done and try to make some connections in my area. Any suggestions? And WAMC- with and without a research year? And how difficult is it to stay in the northeast?

MD MS3 at top 30 institution
Step 1: 261
Step 2: TBD
Clinicals: Will probably finish the year with 5-6 H, 2-3 HP
Research: Not much. One 2nd author publication unrelated to rad onc before I got to med school. A few other projects that I did internally for a hospital but that were not published.

 

[Get_schwifty]

Hi all,

Up until recently, I was thinking I would end up in IM but now I'm thinking rad onc. It's pretty late in the year, so I'm not opposed to taking a year off before 4th year to get some research done and try to make some connections in my area. Any suggestions? And WAMC- with and without a research year? And how difficult is it to stay in the northeast?

MD MS3 at top 30 institution
Step 1: 261
Step 2: TBD
Clinicals: Will probably finish the year with 5-6 H, 2-3 HP
Research: Not much. One 2nd author publication unrelated to rad onc before I got to med school. A few other projects that I did internally for a hospital but that were not published.

Try and get involved in some research at your home institution presuming you have one. Do 3 total rotations, including programs in your area of interest.

Your metrics are great and should have no problem matching somewhere in the northeast. You will have difficulty matching/interviewing to the top programs in that region without stronger research so if this is a must for you, consider taking a year off.

Best of luck

 

[StrongSide]

Any reason you suggest 3 total rotations (I assume this is including a home rotation)? Any advantage to doing an extra away?


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