How about a good ol' fashioned "what are my chances" thread?

[laserbeams]

So here's the scoop. I'm a third year student at mid-range private school without a home program. Stats are as follows:

Step 1: High 230s (disappointing, I know)
Pre-clinical: P/F at my school; I did above average in most classes
Clinical: Honors in Pediatrics, HP in IM, FM and Surgery; have yet to complete OBGYN, Neuro and Psych
Research: ACRO abstract, ASTRO abstract (hopefully), non-rad onc presentation, a couple second/third author papers to be submitted
ECs: Strong leadership record, some volunteering, and I've worked a few jobs.
LoRs: TBD
"Extras": I work hard and generally get along well with folks

While I don't mean to sell myself short, I realize I'm not the strongest candidate the field has ever seen. Aside from doing as well as humanly possible in my remaining required clerkships, what should I plan on doing? My short-term goals include:

1) Step 2CK in June or July; aiming for a ~15+ point improvement over Step 1
2) Away rotations: three in total, with one at a "reach" spot and the other two at respectable institutions (July/Aug/Sept)
3) More research: aim to be productive during aways
4) LoRs: talk some good game with attendings, see where it gets me.

Longer-term goals: matching (anywhere). I like the patients more than anything, so I'm not sweating admission to Big Name Programs, just somewhere that'll teach me how to take care of people with cancer.

Carefully-worded guidance? Brutal honesty? I'm game. Also, thanks in advance -- this forum has been terribly anxiety-inducing but also very helpful.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Sheldor]

So I recently finished interviews, and have yet to match, but since I came from a quasi-similar situation I thought I'd share what I picked up.

You're right, in that there isn't much you can change at this point. Since its only January, I'd definitely try to get more research over the next few months. If you can get a first author paper, that would be money. My advice, would be to write the paper based on your ASTRO abstract, and then show the completed paper to your PI for edits, otherwise it may take too long to get done.

The other thing you have control over is aways:

1) I think you have a realistic view of your application, so I'm not sure what a "reach" is to you. That said, I would definitely do the three aways, but I wouldn't do one at a "top 10" institution.

2) The reason I say not to do one at a top 10 institution is that you get very little bang for your investment. Maybe a LOR from a big name, maybe not. Maybe an interview there, maybe not. The unfortunately truth is, you won't match at a top 10 place. Again, you are realistic and know this and have career goals that don't require it so its perfect!

3) Where should you do them? I'd do one at the "bottom of the top tier", and then two in the solid mid-tier range. Spread them out geographically. Between your medical school and your aways, you want to cover the Midwest, the East, and one other region. I was shocked how much the region your away is in can influence where you get invites.

4) LOR - The conventional wisdom is to go to a reach to get a big name LOR. However, as I've gone on the trail I've noticed there are actually a lot of big name people at mid-tier institutions. These are perfect, because you get your foot in the door at a realistic opportunity while getting a big name letter.

Again, take with a grain of salt, but these are a few of the things that I wish I had listened to 6 months ago. Good luck!

So here's the scoop. I'm a third year student at mid-range private school without a home program. Stats are as follows:

Step 1: High 230s (disappointing, I know)
Pre-clinical: P/F at my school; I did above average in most classes
Clinical: Honors in Pediatrics, HP in IM, FM and Surgery; have yet to complete OBGYN, Neuro and Psych
Research: ACRO abstract, ASTRO abstract (hopefully), non-rad onc presentation, a couple second/third author papers to be submitted
ECs: Strong leadership record, some volunteering, and I've worked a few jobs.
LoRs: TBD
"Extras": I work hard and generally get along well with folks

While I don't mean to sell myself short, I realize I'm not the strongest candidate the field has ever seen. Aside from doing as well as humanly possible in my remaining required clerkships, what should I plan on doing? My short-term goals include:

1) Step 2CK in June or July; aiming for a ~15+ point improvement over Step 1
2) Away rotations: three in total, with one at a "reach" spot and the other two at respectable institutions (July/Aug/Sept)
3) More research: aim to be productive during aways
4) LoRs: talk some good game with attendings, see where it gets me.

Longer-term goals: matching (anywhere). I like the patients more than anything, so I'm not sweating admission to Big Name Programs, just somewhere that'll teach me how to take care of people with cancer.

Carefully-worded guidance? Brutal honesty? I'm game. Also, thanks in advance -- this forum has been terribly anxiety-inducing but also very helpful.

 

[Neuronix]

Step 1: High 230s (disappointing, I know)

My biggest advice is to get over it. It's about the average for the specialty. We interview, rank, and match people with lower step 1 scores than yours. It annoys me when people think their AVERAGE step 1 scores are disappointing/limiting.

Get AOA if you can. Keep trying to get clinical honors to achieve that. Stay active in rad onc research. I think 3 aways is a bit much if you have a home program. If you can do 2 aways and do additional, hopefully first author publishable research in rad onc, that's best. Though the timing of that may not work out.

"Extras": I work hard and generally get along well with folks

I underestimated the importance of this when I applied. Everyone in this field works hard (at least seems to when they apply), and everyone gets along well. But, personality really is very important. It's the same stuff that gets you clinical honors. Be smiley, enthusiastic, diplomatic, work hard, etc...

1) Step 2CK in June or July; aiming for a ~15+ point improvement over Step 1
2) Away rotations: three in total, with one at a "reach" spot and the other two at respectable institutions (July/Aug/Sept)
3) More research: aim to be productive during aways
4) LoRs: talk some good game with attendings, see where it gets me.

It seems to me there's no good consensus as to away rotations. I think Sheldor's advice is fine. Early Step 2 is fine, but you should be aiming for 260+.

 

[Totem]

My two cents: (full disclosure, I'm a 4th year med student wrapping up my rank list)

Many people (PD's, etc.) don't believe in the "better score on step 2 makes up for a low step 1" idea. Plus, your step 1 score is actually good--about average for the specialty, so relax. Seriously you are fine.

I would take step 2 after the interview season. It's not worth giving up the amount of time it takes to rock step 2 during June-September of your 4th year. Those are the most critical months of med school (research + aways + get your application ready).

If you are going to put your time anywhere, put it into research. I swear, it's all anyone cares about on the interview trail, along with letters of recommendation. Grades and scores were almost never brought up.

Good luck, you'll be fine. And, as mentioned above, having a good personality matters more than I expected as well. Pretty much everyone is smart/hard working, but not everyone is someone you'd want to work side by side with for 4 years.

One last thing re: aways--look at the who's who match lists for the last few years here on the board to get a sense of where people go. I don't believe in doing an away solely for a letter--it should definitely be a place where you have at least an outside chance of matching. For example, if an institution you are considering doing an away at has only matched students from top 5 med schools and you are at an unranked state school, that rotation won't be as high yield. There are lots of good LOR writers out there at many places, so do aways at places you really want to go and feel that you have a reasonable chance.

 

[napoleondynamite]

One last thing re: aways--look at the who's who match lists for the last few years here on the board to get a sense of where people go. I don't believe in doing an away solely for a letter--it should definitely be a place where you have at least an outside chance of matching. For example, if an institution you are considering doing an away at has only matched students from top 5 med schools and you are at an unranked state school, that rotation won't be as high yield. There are lots of good LOR writers out there at many places, so do aways at places you really want to go and feel that you have a reasonable chance.

Good advice. Don't sell yourself short - I think you sound like a strong applicant who based on paper alone is likely to get 7-10 interviews, which seems to be the sweet spot for matching. If you have a good personality and get along well with people, I'd say your chances are excellent at matching. There are of course random driveby shootings every year and good people get left out on match day sometimes, but the odds are with you more than against you.

 

[metallica81788]

It seems to me there's no good consensus as to away rotations. I think Sheldor's advice is fine. Early Step 2 is fine, but you should be aiming for 260+.

So you think that if a Step score in the high 230s to mid 240s I'd be better off waiting to take it until later? I was planning on taking mine early (before fourth year) to get it out of the way.

I'm in a similar situation to OP, just with less research (currently trying to get some) and no home program. Just curious about the Step 2 thing.

 

[Totem]

So you think that if a Step score in the high 230s to mid 240s I'd be better off waiting to take it until later? I was planning on taking mine early (before fourth year) to get it out of the way.

I'm in a similar situation to OP, just with less research (currently trying to get some) and no home program. Just curious about the Step 2 thing.

I've given this a lot of thought and talked with a number of fellow applicants and residents about this. I just don't think an amazing step 2 score does that much for you if you are already in the 230's or 240's or higher. Maybe if your step 1 is below 230, taking step 2 early could demonstrate that step 1 was a fluke, then it may be worth it.

But as I mentioned above, I think any extra time before you submit your ERAS application should be spent on research or away rotations. Each line of research on your application is worth its weight in gold.

Realistically, you probably need 4-6 weeks of prep to really rock step 2. That same amount of time could be spent preparing an abstract or two or getting a manuscript submitted which is probably 100x more valuable than an impressive step 2 score.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

 

[Neuronix]

So you think that if a Step score in the high 230s to mid 240s I'd be better off waiting to take it until later?

There is no consensus on this point. Hence it would be reasonable to do either IMO.

 

[ramsesthenice]

It doesn't matter. When you register for step2 don't allow automatic release of your scores and take it whenever you feel like it. If your score is good send it in. If not then just never send it. Most places don't care about step 2 because a lot of applicants simply won't have it. Keep in mind most people do better on step 2 so it's harder than you think to make up ground. It's a check box requirement. Do it whenever.

 

[hot sauce]

So you think that if a Step score in the high 230s to mid 240s I'd be better off waiting to take it until later? I was planning on taking mine early (before fourth year) to get it out of the way.

I'm in a similar situation to OP, just with less research (currently trying to get some) and no home program. Just curious about the Step 2 thing.

Take step 2CK whenever you think you will be able to do the best on it. I think it makes sense to take it near the start of your forth year if you feel prepared. Rad onc electives will not help you with CK. Your sub-I may but you'll be farther out from stuff like OB, peds, ect. Besides who wants to take it near the end of the year. Conversely, if you don't feel prepared don't rush it and regret it.

As Neuronix said high 230s is fine. Are you the most amazing applicant ever? No, but you already knew that. Are you a competitive applicant who should land a spot? Based on what you've posted, yes you are.

My advise would be work hard and be nice on your away rotations. Should go without saying but important enough to say anyway.

 

[RSAOaky]

Since you have no home program I'd do 3 aways at mid-tier places (i.e. ones that you'll have a shot at interviewing at). There are plenty of such places with at least 1 big name faculty and so you get both a letter from someone well known and hopefully an extra interview. There are programs that may not interview you regardless of how well you do at the rotation, and that would just be a complete waste of time. As for step 2, no one really knows the answer but I personally don't think it matters at all. Research and who you wrote your letters/where you rotated is all that people speak about on 90% of my interviews. Good luck.

 

[laserbeams]

Many thanks to all those who've replied. Suffice to say, I appreciate your candor and enjoyed your responses, although I'm still a bit conflicted on the timing of Step 2. The dean of students at my school is pessimistic about my chances, but I also feel that he doesn't really have a good sense of just how much research plays a part in matching in this field. His advice was to take it "early" (sometime between May and August), but I'll be weighing my options carefully.

Best of luck to all of you MS4s as you await Match Day!

 

[RSAOaky]

The worst thing that happens is you apply and don't get in, which obviously seems like it's the worst thing in the world as a 4th year medical student and it obviously sucks but if it's what you want to do and you're willing to do your best to get in then things will hopefully work out in the end. It seems like you have an application that is within the match range, you just have to continue doing everything to make your application as good as it can be. The field itself has a aura of being impossible to get into for whatever reason but I think more than any other competitive specialty it is accessible as long as you are dedicated. Now regarding step 2 one more time, I honestly think it doesn't matter either way so just do what you feel comfortable with. I can't see it being a make or break for interviews but who knows, that's just the feeling I get. Work hard and don't get discouraged. In general, deans know absolutely nothing about the field and sometimes coming from a smaller school, one without a program, or one without people who have traditionally matched into it they can be particularly negative. Best of luck.

 

[cuedot]

I would take Step 2 as late as possible, aim to for a passing score, and only send it to schools if it is really strong. I think it is more important in this field to direct your energy toward research and performance on away rotations. Improving on Step 2 might be recommended for medicine or surgery, but I would take advice from your Dean with a grain of salt especially considering your school doesn't even have a radonc program.

 

[Sheldor]

I think the answer is both. Take it at the end of August such that scores come out after ERAS submission, that way you have damage control.

 

[amakhosidlo]

Same question, not sure where to start looking for answers.

Top 10 School
Step 1: 240+
Clinicals: Honors in Family and Medicine so far (only things I've gotten a grade for)
Research: One 4th author radonc-specific paper, one non-specific 1st author (low, low impact journal)

That's...about it. I imagine that makes me low tier/middle-of-the-road? Are there middle-of-the-road programs that'd be appropriate?

My list so far:

UW (Home/reach)
OHSU
Utah
Colorado
UCLA (All of the Socal programs, really)

Really, really trying to stay west coast.

Suggestions?

Also, I think I might have a problem with regards to aways: Our school has a ridiculous new requirement of forcing us to do one required 4th year rotation per quarter, which means I can fit in a max of one home and one away before September. Looking at an away at Utah. Is that a total reach? Is there any way to find out average scores, resumes for people who matched recently?

 

[Neuronix]

My 2c:

Every year a lot of people want to be on the west coast and/or mountain areas. Some will get that, some won't. Those areas are clearly more competitive than the midwest, and you need to apply broadly. Which means you can hope for the best, but plan for matching anywhere you can get a position. Don't be unhappy if you don't get what you want. There are a lot of people out there in MD/PhD programs and residencies who are stuck outside their beloved California/NYC/wherever, and some of them get really depressed about it. If that's you, consider a backup specialty. Otherwise, apply to every program on the west coast, mountains, and another 40 or so elsewhere, and not just big name east coast cities.

It's hard to say where to go for away rotations. Everyone has a variety of experiences. As for Utah specifically, they get a lot of mentions on the forums. See: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=629802. UW does too... Sort through the interview impressions thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8859929.

But whether you'd be better off going to one program or another for away rotations is a matter of chance. You can't see the details of applications of who matched where in prior years, and I'm not sure it would be helpful anyway. i.e. Due to high numbers of applications to positions at any given program in any given year, someone with an identical application to yours might do differently than you will for factors out of your control. You just take your chances and see what happens. For the most information you're going to find, see this thread and the equivalents for previous years:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=897531

 

[aus9788]

Same question for me, MS-3 here looking to apply for 2013-2014 year and I have no idea where to do away rotations. For that matter, I do not know what programs I'd even be competitive at. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Top 25 school
Step 1: 250
Clinicals: Most likely not AOA, honors in Medicine, Psych, HP in peds (only grades I have back so far)
Research: Author (not lead) on a internal medicine paper, just completed abstract for ASTRO and will present poster as 2nd author, have an editorial in oncology, another rad onc project in progress now for which I will be 1st author, and another one just completed as 2nd author not yet written up

Thank you!!

 

[IlladeplhNarm]

My question is slightly different but still relevant. I will be an MS-1 this upcoming August (yes, very early, i know) at a very new medical school without a home Rad/Onc program. This school will graduate their charter class this May. I am a non-trad student starting med school 3 years after graduating undergrad.

I'm concerned about how important is the reputation of the school when matching for Rad/Onc? Do you think stellar Step 1 scores (250+), AOA membership, and decent number of publications can make up for a school that doesn't have much of a reputation yet?

I completed a post-bacc at the same institution which is basically a mimic of the first year curriculum . I was top of my class and graduated with a 4.0 GPA. I am confident that I can perform well during my first year, but I've also been keeping up with a lot of the basic sciences during my gap year. With that said, I am going to attempt Rad/Onc research from year 1 and I am aggressively looking for long term research opportunities right now.

Do you think I have a shot if all of the above is becomes true? Also what other steps should I take to make me a more competitive applicant?

 

[Neuronix]

I have no idea where to do away rotations. For that matter, I do not know what programs I'd even be competitive at.

Any and all potentially. This is very vague.

I'm concerned about how important is the reputation of the school when matching for Rad/Onc? Do you think stellar Step 1 scores (250+), AOA membership, and decent number of publications can make up for a school that doesn't have much of a reputation yet?

www.google.com

site:forums.studentdoctor.net radiation home program

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=771274
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=827536
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=815594

 

[CDevil]

Gotta throw my profile in here as I'm in a similar boat. I'm an MS-3 who only really recently decided on applying to Rad Onc. The idea of Rad Onc hadn't even entered my mind prior to third year. No idea what my chances are of matching are, particularly to a mid-tier or higher program. Any help would be appreciated - I'd happily give you a high five in real life, but I'm willing to give you whatever the internet equivalent of that is.

Top 10 school
Step 1: 250
Clinicals: Probably not AOA, honors in Family, Surgery, HP in Psych
Research: No current publications, but I should have 1 first-author pub in surgical oncology before application season (will present at a national conference in a few weeks). No research other than that, radonc or otherwise (yup. not ideal).

Same question for me, MS-3 here looking to apply for 2013-2014 year and I have no idea where to do away rotations. For that matter, I do not know what programs I'd even be competitive at. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Top 25 school
Step 1: 250
Clinicals: Most likely not AOA, honors in Medicine, Psych, HP in peds (only grades I have back so far)
Research: Author (not lead) on a internal medicine paper, just completed abstract for ASTRO and will present poster as 2nd author, have an editorial in oncology, another rad onc project in progress now for which I will be 1st author, and another one just completed as 2nd author not yet written up

Thank you!!

 

[thesauce]

My question is slightly different but still relevant. I will be an MS-1 this upcoming August (yes, very early, i know) at a very new medical school without a home Rad/Onc program. This school will graduate their charter class this May. I am a non-trad student starting med school 3 years after graduating undergrad.

I'm concerned about how important is the reputation of the school when matching for Rad/Onc? Do you think stellar Step 1 scores (250+), AOA membership, and decent number of publications can make up for a school that doesn't have much of a reputation yet?

I completed a post-bacc at the same institution which is basically a mimic of the first year curriculum . I was top of my class and graduated with a 4.0 GPA. I am confident that I can perform well during my first year, but I've also been keeping up with a lot of the basic sciences during my gap year. With that said, I am going to attempt Rad/Onc research from year 1 and I am aggressively looking for long term research opportunities right now.

Do you think I have a shot if all of the above is becomes true? Also what other steps should I take to make me a more competitive applicant?

If all or even most of the above comes true, yes, you'll be competitive. Away rotations are the only thing you've left out and it's pretty early to be thinking about that.

 

[thesauce]

Gotta throw my profile in here as I'm in a similar boat. I'm an MS-3 who only really recently decided on applying to Rad Onc. The idea of Rad Onc hadn't even entered my mind prior to third year. No idea what my chances are of matching are, particularly to a mid-tier or higher program. Any help would be appreciated - I'd happily give you a high five in real life, but I'm willing to give you whatever the internet equivalent of that is.

Top 10 school
Step 1: 250
Clinicals: Probably not AOA, honors in Family, Surgery, HP in Psych
Research: No current publications, but I should have 1 first-author pub in surgical oncology before application season (will present at a national conference in a few weeks). No research other than that, radonc or otherwise (yup. not ideal).

You're in good shape, but I would recommend trying for some radonc-specific research before your app goes out.

 

[Totem]

How in the world do you discern what program is in what "tier"? Who comes up with this ranking? How do you determine which programs are low-tier? Searching provides some references to "top" tier programs, but nothing in regards as to what programs aren't as well regarded. I'm an applicant with a step1 in the low 200s, which will likely keep me out of some programs (even with a 250+ VERY early step2); however, I have no idea how to select a few programs to do aways at that would be more likely to interview me, and this mention of certain "tiers" seems to be nothing more than vague notions people have in their heads. My research suggests that geographic location has a lot to do with what "tier" a certain program falls into in people's minds. Where would you suggest rotating given my less than stellar USMLE (but an otherwise pretty unique non-trad personal narrative) and lack of desire to live in any place most med students would consider "desirable?" On these "tiers" you reference, which programs fall towards the bottom? I have little interest in an academic career or practicing in an highly-populated area.[/QUOTE]

My 2 cents:

How in the world do you discern what program is in what "tier"?
A few quick ways to get an idea of what tier a program falls into include: program size (# of residents; most lower tier take 1-2/yr), job placement of graduates (often on program website), name recognition (e.g. affiliated with well known university or hospital), medical schools of applicants who match (not an excellent measure, of course. Look at the who's who threads), how new the program is (newer can mean lower tier. Exception--UCSD), history of probation or residents leaving the program (or residents telling applicants not to rank their program).

Who comes up with this ranking?
We do…. (However, my impression in talking with faculty members and residents is that the rankings are relatively accurate and are more than vague notions in our heads)

How do you determine which programs are low-tier?
See above

"geographic location has a lot to do with what "tier" a certain program falls into in people's minds"
As a general rule, people have and will always want to go to attractive location regardless of field, so its not surprising that good universities, and therefore, good rad onc programs are often located in good locations. It's easier to attract people to San Diego or NYC than to Omaha.

On these "tiers" you reference, which programs fall towards the bottom?
Look through the rank thread again, people have ranked all programs including a bottom tier

 

[thesauce]

How in the world do you discern what program is in what "tier"? Who comes up with this ranking?

I understand your confusion and it's a somewhat arbitrary designation. What others have done is come up with a few programs that they're interested in and inquire to others here. Be sure and ask far in advance of needing the information as the thread tends to move slowly.

How do you determine which programs are low-tier?

PM me. It's a sensitive topic and most (although not all) would be reluctant to post what amounts to an insult toward another programs. You can get an idea here.

I have no idea how to select a few programs to do aways at that would be more likely to interview me, and this mention of certain "tiers" seems to be nothing more than vague notions people have in their heads.

I agree that they can be somewhat vague, but these "notions" tend to stem from tangible benefits including job placement into competitive areas/institutions.

My research suggests that geographic location has a lot to do with what "tier" a certain program falls into in people's minds.

Correct. The top programs tend to be in densely populated areas (typically east or west coast) where there are more patients.

Where would you suggest rotating given my less than stellar USMLE (but an otherwise pretty unique non-trad personal narrative) and lack of desire to live in any place most med students would consider "desirable?"

PM me.

I have little interest in an academic career or practicing in an highly-populated area.

There is nothing wrong with either, of course, but I would caution you not to come across as "anti-academic" on the interview trail or beyond. Keep in mind that the academic leaders in our field have established our ability to make a living (and thrive) in this amazing profession. So at the very least, we should be respectful and appreciative of their contributions.

 

[Neuronix]

My research suggests that geographic location has a lot to do with what "tier" a certain program falls into in people's minds.

I'm strongly agreed on this point. Quality of program and competitive location are often intermixed in these subjective program rankings.

On these "tiers" you reference, which programs fall towards the bottom? I have little interest in an academic career or practicing in an highly-populated area.

I agree with you that this notion of "tiers" is vague. If you're looking for less competitive programs, look for the programs that are not easily recognized names in locations away from coasts (midwest, southeast) and the big name cities. Nobody is going to name names publicly, because any residency program is going to lead to board certification in radiation oncology and thus can be considered a strong program!

Agree with thesauce that you don't want to downplay academics. Do what just about everyone else does (MS4 or PGY-5)--say you are interested in academics or private practice and have not yet decided.

 

[Sheldor]

How in the world do you discern what program is in what "tier"? Who comes up with this ranking? How do you determine which programs are low-tier? Searching provides some references to "top" tier programs, but nothing in regards as to what programs aren't as well regarded. I'm an applicant with a step1 in the low 200s, which will likely keep me out of some programs (even with a 250+ VERY early step2); however, I have no idea how to select a few programs to do aways at that would be more likely to interview me, and this mention of certain "tiers" seems to be nothing more than vague notions people have in their heads. My research suggests that geographic location has a lot to do with what "tier" a certain program falls into in people's minds. Where would you suggest rotating given my less than stellar USMLE (but an otherwise pretty unique non-trad personal narrative) and lack of desire to live in any place most med students would consider "desirable?" On these "tiers" you reference, which programs fall towards the bottom? I have little interest in an academic career or practicing in an highly-populated area.

Obviously, what the above three posters said is absolutely true. As a starting point, I'd recommend this ranking list. Look in to any programs in the "good" category. Warning is, that some just okay programs are very competitive because of location. So for the best bet, go to the "good" part of this list, and then look for the programs in the middle of the country or the south.

Also, if you still want more specific advice, feel free to PM.

Exceptional
Brigham and Women's Hospital/Massachusetts General Hospital/Harvard Medical School
Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Program
University of Texas M D Anderson Cancer Center Program

Outstanding
Stanford University Program
University of California (San Francisco) Program
Yale-New Haven Medical Center Program
University of Chicago/University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program
Johns Hopkins University Program
University of Michigan Program
William Beaumont Hospital Program
Washington University/B-JH/SLCH Consortium Program
Duke University Hospital Program
University of Pennsylvania Program
University of Wisconsin Program
University of Florida Program
Fox Chase Cancer Center Program
Vanderbilt University Medical Center Program
University of Texas Southwestern Medical School Program
University of Utah Program

Excellent
University of Maryland Program
Thomas Jefferson University Program
University of Alabama Medical Center Program
UCLA Medical Center Program
University of Colorado Denver Program
New York University School of Medicine Program
University of Rochester Program
University of North Carolina Hospitals Program
UPMC Medical Education Program
University of Washington Program
Wake Forest University School of Medicine Program
University of California (San Diego) Program
Emory University Program
College of Medicine Mayo Clinic (Rochester) Program
UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School Program
Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program
Case Western Reserve University/University Hospitals Case Medical Center Program
Cleveland Clinic Foundation Program
Oregon Health & Science University Program
University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio Program
Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals Program
McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University Program
National Capital Consortium Program
Mount Sinai School of Medicine Program
Georgetown University Hospital Program
University of South Florida Program
Henry Ford Hospital Program
University at Buffalo Program
University of Virginia Program

Good
New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus) Program
University of Louisville Program
Baylor College of Medicine Program
University of Arizona Program
City of Hope National Medical Center Program
Loma Linda University Program
University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program
Kaiser Permanente Southern California (Los Angeles) Program
University of California (Irvine) Program
University of California (Davis) Health System Program
California Pacific Medical Center Program
College of Medicine Mayo Clinic (Jacksonville) Program
Jackson Memorial Hospital/Jackson Health System Program
Rush University Medical Center Program
Loyola University Program
Indiana University School of Medicine Program
University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics Program
University of Kansas School of Medicine Program
University of Kentucky College of Medicine Program
Tufts Medical Center Program
Wayne State University/Detroit Medical Center Program
University of Minnesota Program
University of Mississippi Medical Center Program
University of Nebraska Medical Center College of Medicine Program
SUNY Health Science Center at Brooklyn Program
New York Methodist Hospital Program
New York Hospital Medical Center of Queens/Cornell University Medical College Program
SUNY Upstate Medical University Program
University Hospital/University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Program
Ohio State University Hospital Program
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center Program
Drexel University College of Medicine/Hahnemann University Hospital Program
Allegheny General Hospital-Western Pennsylvania Hospital Medical Education Consortium (AGH)
Medical University of South Carolina Program
University of Texas Medical Branch Hospitals Program
Methodist Hospital (Houston) Program
Virginia Commonwealth University Health System Program

 

[mrm612]

Hello All, and thanks for being so generous with your advice!

I'm an M3 planning to apply for rad onc next year. I'm looking for advice about ways to improve my application.

Step 1: 229 (I was very disappointed...)
Pre-clinical: P/F here, with H or NH in just under half the courses
Clinical: Honors in Family Medicine, NH in Outpatient IM, Pass in Inpatient IM and Surgery; still need to complete Peds, OBGyn, Neuro and Psych
Research: All prior to medical school and not directly related to rad onc. Nothing published, a couple poster presentations, a couple grad seminar presentations. I worked at the graduate level with antioxidant effects on human cells, my PI fell ill and the project ended. I also worked on several research projects completely unrelated to medicine over several years, my name is not on any of those publications.
ECs: Some leadership, lots of teaching (tutoring in med school, teaching science at college level), a little volunteering, worked full time for a few years prior to med school
LoRs: I'm hoping for 2 from my home dept and 1 from an away, a fourth from a doc in a different field with whom I worked closely for 4 months


I'm not blind to the fact that I'm not a top notch applicant. My biggest question now is about Step 2 vs. research vs. another away rotation. I'll complete one rotation at home and one away. I was thinking of taking 4 weeks in July to study for Step 2 to "make up" for Step 1, but after reading this thread, I'm wondering if it would be wiser to instead use those 4 weeks to complete a research elective or a second away rotation?? How late could I take Step 2?

I just want to match, I know this is my field. I'd prefer to stay as far from big cities as possible, but I'm willing to show up anywhere!

I also meant to mention I'm working on getting involved in research now in rad onc, but realistically given the short time before application season and constraints of required clerkships, this is unlikely to amount to a whole lot...

 

[hot sauce]

Hello All, and thanks for being so generous with your advice!

I'm an M3 planning to apply for rad onc next year. I'm looking for advice about ways to improve my application.

Step 1: 229 (I was very disappointed...)
Pre-clinical: P/F here, with H or NH in just under half the courses
Clinical: Honors in Family Medicine, NH in Outpatient IM, Pass in Inpatient IM and Surgery; still need to complete Peds, OBGyn, Neuro and Psych
Research: All prior to medical school and not directly related to rad onc. Nothing published, a couple poster presentations, a couple grad seminar presentations. I worked at the graduate level with antioxidant effects on human cells, my PI fell ill and the project ended. I also worked on several research projects completely unrelated to medicine over several years, my name is not on any of those publications.
ECs: Some leadership, lots of teaching (tutoring in med school, teaching science at college level), a little volunteering, worked full time for a few years prior to med school
LoRs: I'm hoping for 2 from my home dept and 1 from an away, a fourth from a doc in a different field with whom I worked closely for 4 months


I'm not blind to the fact that I'm not a top notch applicant. My biggest question now is about Step 2 vs. research vs. another away rotation. I'll complete one rotation at home and one away. I was thinking of taking 4 weeks in July to study for Step 2 to "make up" for Step 1, but after reading this thread, I'm wondering if it would be wiser to instead use those 4 weeks to complete a research elective or a second away rotation?? How late could I take Step 2?

I just want to match, I know this is my field. I'd prefer to stay as far from big cities as possible, but I'm willing to show up anywhere!

I also meant to mention I'm working on getting involved in research now in rad onc, but realistically given the short time before application season and constraints of required clerkships, this is unlikely to amount to a whole lot...

Get some rad onc research. Doesn't have to be something major but have something rad onc related to put on your application. Obviously a poster or publication is ideal but don't let the fear of not getting a published project stop you from getting any project. You can do away research rotations at some institutions so that is something to consider. Do try to get at least a poster and let whoever you are working with know that is your goal and you are willing to put in the time to try and make it happen.

And do your best to get honors on your remaining rotations.

 

[napoleondynamite]

Agree with the away research rotation. Will open an interview door and help boost your CV as well. But get a small project going at your own institution ASAP so you can hopefully at least get a poster somewhere b4 you apply. You need to have that all-important publications box checked to the affirmative or you will get screened out of many programs without so much as a glance at your application. Poster vs pub does not matter in that initial screening. It will on closer inspection, but you'll at least get a closer inspection.

 

[Totem]

Hello All, and thanks for being so generous with your advice!

I'm an M3 planning to apply for rad onc next year. I'm looking for advice about ways to improve my application.

Step 1: 229 (I was very disappointed...)
Pre-clinical: P/F here, with H or NH in just under half the courses
Clinical: Honors in Family Medicine, NH in Outpatient IM, Pass in Inpatient IM and Surgery; still need to complete Peds, OBGyn, Neuro and Psych
Research: All prior to medical school and not directly related to rad onc. Nothing published, a couple poster presentations, a couple grad seminar presentations. I worked at the graduate level with antioxidant effects on human cells, my PI fell ill and the project ended. I also worked on several research projects completely unrelated to medicine over several years, my name is not on any of those publications.
ECs: Some leadership, lots of teaching (tutoring in med school, teaching science at college level), a little volunteering, worked full time for a few years prior to med school
LoRs: I'm hoping for 2 from my home dept and 1 from an away, a fourth from a doc in a different field with whom I worked closely for 4 months


I'm not blind to the fact that I'm not a top notch applicant. My biggest question now is about Step 2 vs. research vs. another away rotation. I'll complete one rotation at home and one away. I was thinking of taking 4 weeks in July to study for Step 2 to "make up" for Step 1, but after reading this thread, I'm wondering if it would be wiser to instead use those 4 weeks to complete a research elective or a second away rotation?? How late could I take Step 2?

I just want to match, I know this is my field. I'd prefer to stay as far from big cities as possible, but I'm willing to show up anywhere!

I also meant to mention I'm working on getting involved in research now in rad onc, but realistically given the short time before application season and constraints of required clerkships, this is unlikely to amount to a whole lot...

Depending on your goals, you may consider taking a year off to do research before applying. I'm not saying you need to or anything, just saying that you seem like someone that could really benefit from research, and if you are set on this field, a year of research may be worth it. That way you could have some projects to present at ASTRO next fall (2014) and some papers in the works. Just something to think about.... best of luck!

 

[radonconogs]

Here are my stats. Any insight is appreciated!

Step 1: 231/99
Junior AOA
Preclinical: Mostly honors, top 10%
3rd year grades: Honors in Psych, High Pass in everything else.
Research: One low authorship on rad onc publication. I also have a Masters degree in an unrelated field with 1 first author paper in a high impact journal, 2 second author papers in mid-tier journals, and >10 meetings/published abstracts. I am taking this year off in a research fellowship doing radonc-related research (hopefully with at least one first authorship publication and ASTRO 2013 presentation).
ECs: Lots of teaching (giving lectures in med school, anatomy tutor in med school, 3 years of being an anatomy and physiology teaching assistant in grad school).
Mid-Tier school in Texas with a home radonc department.
LoRs: 1 from home dept, 1 from research year, 1 from an away, and 1 from unrelated field.

In regards to schedule, I plan on doing a one month home rotation followed by an away. Should I consider a second away rotation?

Also, I plan on applying broadly but am interested in any input on my chances at mid-high tier academic programs since I realize my Step score is not the greatest. Thanks for any advice you can give!

 

[Sheldor]

Here are my stats. Any insight is appreciated!

Step 1: 231/99
Junior AOA
Preclinical: Mostly honors, top 10%
3rd year grades: Honors in Psych, High Pass in everything else.
Research: One low authorship on rad onc publication. I also have a Masters degree in an unrelated field with 1 first author paper in a high impact journal, 2 second author papers in mid-tier journals, and >10 meetings/published abstracts. I am taking this year off in a research fellowship doing radonc-related research (hopefully with at least one first authorship publication and ASTRO 2013 presentation).
ECs: Lots of teaching (giving lectures in med school, anatomy tutor in med school, 3 years of being an anatomy and physiology teaching assistant in grad school).
Mid-Tier school in Texas with a home radonc department.
LoRs: 1 from home dept, 1 from research year, 1 from an away, and 1 from unrelated field.

In regards to schedule, I plan on doing a one month home rotation followed by an away. Should I consider a second away rotation?

Also, I plan on applying broadly but am interested in any input on my chances at mid-high tier academic programs since I realize my Step score is not the greatest. Thanks for any advice you can give!

In my experience you are going to be competitive for the mid-high tier you are aiming for, with a smattering from the top tier as well, but unpredictably so.

As for aways, if you are able to get enough letters from high impact people in those two, then two is enough ( I only did two as well.) However, if there is a specific high mid tier program you want to go to, then I'd highly recommend doing your third away rotation there. This process is very random, and the only think we as applicants have in our power to change where we get interviews is away rotations. However, if you're happy going anywhere, then you likely don't need that third rotation.

Also, I'll add that the people I met from lower medical schools who did a year off for research seemed to be interviewing very well, so I'd be encouraged!

 

[mrm612]

Depending on your goals, you may consider taking a year off to do research before applying. I'm not saying you need to or anything, just saying that you seem like someone that could really benefit from research, and if you are set on this field, a year of research may be worth it. That way you could have some projects to present at ASTRO next fall (2014) and some papers in the works. Just something to think about.... best of luck!

Thank you all for your input so far. I will look into the possibility of an away research rotation. Totem, I have considered taking a year off for research. I think the extra year would be worth it to me to do rad onc as a career. I am torn, though, between the year of research versus applying first and then doing research if I don't match the first time. I know the year of research first might open interview doors that otherwise would not be options for me, but if I were to match in the first go, I'm not sure it's worth it. Any thoughts on this? Advice from anyone here who applied, didn't match, then went for the research year? Thanks!

 

[Totem]

Thank you all for your input so far. I will look into the possibility of an away research rotation. Totem, I have considered taking a year off for research. I think the extra year would be worth it to me to do rad onc as a career. I am torn, though, between the year of research versus applying first and then doing research if I don't match the first time. I know the year of research first might open interview doors that otherwise would not be options for me, but if I were to match in the first go, I'm not sure it's worth it. Any thoughts on this? Advice from anyone here who applied, didn't match, then went for the research year? Thanks!

Few things here:

1-A year of research between 3rd and 4th year is not equivalent to a year of research after 4th year if you don't match. I think its easier to get funding for a year off during med school than to find a paid position after graduation. Also, if you don't match in March of 2014, that means you have to find a research position and get research completed 6 months later by fall of 2014, whereas with a year off you have a full year, plus the few months until application for things to get submitted/accepted. Plus going unmatched would be messy and painful and you would be paying to travel for interviews twice-also painful.
2-If you really don't care where you go for residency I think you need to get at least something done and on your application to not be worried about matching. If you want to go to an above average program, you can definitely do so with a year of research.
3-As for how to spend your 4 weeks after your 2 rad onc rotations, I would favor a month of research if you are going to apply this year. My home program doesn't believe in making up for step 1 with a better step 2 and at this point i think more research would be way, way more useful than even an outstanding step 2 score. Not all programs believe in step 2 to make up for step 1, but just about all programs love research.

Just my opinions and what I woud do if I was in your situation. Good luck!

 

[bob1988]

Step 1: 230
Step 2: 255
Preclinical: Mainly P (H/P/F)
Clinical: 1 H (family medicine), 3 HP, 2 P (surgery and ob/gyn)
Research: Was planning on applying to rads, but decided against it. All I have in this respect is co-author for a chapter in a prominent IR textbook. Currently on a rad onc research year, mainly doing basic science in a translational sciences division for which I should publish 1 first author pub, 1 review article, 2-3 abstracts/presentations and hopefully some RCT/case report stuff as well as time permits. I do not have a home program, but my research institution has a very strong one.

 

[thesauce]

Step 1: 230
Step 2: 255
Preclinical: Mainly P (H/P/F)
Clinical: 1 H (family medicine), 3 HP, 2 P (surgery and ob/gyn)
Research: Was planning on applying to rads, but decided against it. All I have in this respect is co-author for a chapter in a prominent IR textbook. Currently on a rad onc research year, mainly doing basic science in a translational sciences division for which I should publish 1 first author pub, 1 review article, 2-3 abstracts/presentations and hopefully some RCT/case report stuff as well as time permits. I do not have a home program, but my research institution has a very strong one.

Hoping to do a medicine AI early and get an H in that. I'm thinking 2 aways, I would like to get back to Calfornia, so thinking of doing one of the lower tier UCs (Irvine or Davis) and one of the mid tiers (San Diego), but am open to anywhere in the country at the end of it all. Any advice/thoughts on my candidacy?

I think you're in pretty good shape. The year of dedicated research is an especially big plus on your application and it sounds like you've been very productive. Your plans going forward sound fine. I would just make sure you work hard to submit any ongoing manuscripts before your application goes out. A strong LOR from the chairman at the program that you're currently doing your research will be especially helpful. Best of luck.

 

[hot sauce]

Hoping to do a medicine AI early and get an H in that. I'm thinking 2 aways, I would like to get back to Calfornia, so thinking of doing one of the lower tier UCs (Irvine or Davis) and one of the mid tiers (San Diego), but am open to anywhere in the country at the end of it all. Any advice/thoughts on my candidacy?

Good application but I'd caution against calling UCSD mid tier at least from a competitiveness standpoint. It's a new program but strong faculty and in San Diego = highly competitive. Not saying you shouldn't do a rotation there or anything; if you can get a good letter from Dr. Mundt it would be great for your application.

 

[Neuronix]

I'd recommend against doing two rotations in the same competitive geographic area. Unfortunately, there a large number of people who want to go to California. Meanwhile, some programs assume you only want to go to California and may turn you down for an interview.

 

[bob1988]

Good application but I'd caution against calling UCSD mid tier at least from a competitiveness standpoint. It's a new program but strong faculty and in San Diego = highly competitive. Not saying you shouldn't do a rotation there or anything; if you can get a good letter from Dr. Mundt it would be great for your application.

I meant mid-tier compared to UCSF and Stanford. I imagine it would still be a reach for me, so I figure an away may help me in that regard.

 

[bob1988]

I'd recommend against doing two rotations in the same competitive geographic area. Unfortunately, there a large number of people who want to go to California. Meanwhile, some programs assume you only want to go to California and may turn you down for an interview.

Ah, makes sense, I should probably diversify. My research is out East, so it may make sense to do one Midwest and one West Coast.

 

[radonconogs]

Thanks for getting back to me and the advice! Quick question: with my research taking place on the east coast for the past year, how much weight does that carry with programs in the northeast region in terms of geographic ties? I'll most likely do an away up here anyway, but wanted to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

 

[TheMV]

Oh man I feel stupid for not having found this field sooner, since I love math and physics and probably the thing I hate most about med school is lack of math/physics. I am really behind obviously, but super glad I found something I am sure is my #1 choice (haven't done all rotations I wanted to yet).

Step I: 242
Grades: HP all, but P surg, don't know what in medicine yet will try to H hard.
Preclinicals: mostly H
Research: strong lacking, did some random stuff in undergrad w/ no publication. Did some stuff during the summer w/ no publication (bad project honestly), but I am writing a review paper cause I need to get something out. All non related to RadOnc.
ECs: some leadership positions, fundraising, play a lot of sports/work out still (volunteering, jobs in undergrad but w/e)
Desired location: Midwest or Texas, I think that's a good thing right?

Things that I lack:
1. BIG time number one is research
2. No RadOnc residency at my school
3. Clinical grades suck
4. No engineering/physics degree (I don't know how I can prove to people that my math/physics ability is top notch)

Questions:
1. Do I have a shot?
2. Do I have a shot next year?
3. Should I take a year off and do research? (but my loans )

EDIT: thanks for any advice btw! and please brutal honesty only

 

[TheMV]

Anyone?

 

[ReOxygenation]

Anyone?

I'd say you stand no chance. I mean I was a 293 step1 (not a typo), phd, 2 nature papers, 1 NEJM middle author and 6 middle tier journal publications, did externships, got big wig letters, have an amazing personality and was willing to go the extra mile (if you know what I mean) and I didn't match. I don't understand how anyone matched at all. This field is inpossible to crack even for a god like me. Now I'm stuck doing OB/gyn.

I'll tell you this, if you don't apply, you won't match.

Just prepare yourself well - externships, research, letters and you will be fine. Most important thing in MATCHING (not getting interviews) is PERSONALITY. If they wouldn't like working with you, doesn't matter what the stats are.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Oh man I feel stupid for not having found this field sooner, since I love math and physics and probably the thing I hate most about med school is lack of math/physics. I am really behind obviously, but super glad I found something I am sure is my #1 choice (haven't done all rotations I wanted to yet).

Step I: 242
Grades: HP all, but P surg, don't know what in medicine yet will try to H hard.
Preclinicals: mostly H
Research: strong lacking, did some random stuff in undergrad w/ no publication. Did some stuff during the summer w/ no publication (bad project honestly), but I am writing a review paper cause I need to get something out. All non related to RadOnc.
ECs: some leadership positions, fundraising, play a lot of sports/work out still (volunteering, jobs in undergrad but w/e)
Desired location: Midwest or Texas, I think that's a good thing right?

Things that I lack:
1. BIG time number one is research
2. No RadOnc residency at my school
3. Clinical grades suck
4. No engineering/physics degree (I don't know how I can prove to people that my math/physics ability is top notch)

Questions:
1. Do I have a shot?
2. Do I have a shot next year?
3. Should I take a year off and do research? (but my loans )

EDIT: thanks for any advice btw! and please brutal honesty only

I'm assuming your an MS3. I think if you iron out your research issues (either by taking a year off or somehow doing research, which will be hard due to the lack of a program at your school) you should get interviews at least. It doesn't have to be a lot of research, based on what I've read in the matched thread. Nearly all HP and your clinical grades suck? I'd be happy to have them like that. I have no idea who all these people are that get honors in every. single. thing. My stats are worse than yours, and therefore I am taking a research year off to increase my chances.

 

[TheMV]

I'd say you stand no chance. I mean I was a 293 step1 (not a typo), phd, 2 nature papers, 1 NEJM middle author and 6 middle tier journal publications, did externships, got big wig letters, have an amazing personality and was willing to go the extra mile (if you know what I mean) and I didn't match. I don't understand how anyone matched at all. This field is inpossible to crack even for a god like me. Now I'm stuck doing OB/gyn.

I'll tell you this, if you don't apply, you won't match.

Just prepare yourself well - externships, research, letters and you will be fine. Most important thing in MATCHING (not getting interviews) is PERSONALITY. If they wouldn't like working with you, doesn't matter what the stats are.

Thank you for advice. Sorry, wasn't trying to come off cynical. Thank you for encouraging words, will try my best.

I'm assuming your an MS3. I think if you iron out your research issues (either by taking a year off or somehow doing research, which will be hard due to the lack of a program at your school) you should get interviews at least. It doesn't have to be a lot of research, based on what I've read in the matched thread. Nearly all HP and your clinical grades suck? I'd be happy to have them like that. I have no idea who all these people are that get honors in every. single. thing. My stats are worse than yours, and therefore I am taking a research year off to increase my chances.

Yea I think I might have to take a year off as well. My rad onc chairman at our school said he could probably get me on some sort of research, but the department is not super research heavy. Thank you for the encouraging advice.

 

[amakhosidlo]

I'd say you stand no chance. I mean I was a 293 step1 (not a typo), phd, 2 nature papers, 1 NEJM middle author and 6 middle tier journal publications, did externships, got big wig letters, have an amazing personality and was willing to go the extra mile (if you know what I mean) and I didn't match. I don't understand how anyone matched at all. This field is inpossible to crack even for a god like me. Now I'm stuck doing OB/gyn.

I'll tell you this, if you don't apply, you won't match.

Just prepare yourself well - externships, research, letters and you will be fine. Most important thing in MATCHING (not getting interviews) is PERSONALITY. If they wouldn't like working with you, doesn't matter what the stats are.

Don't feed the trolls. If not, then I think I found your problem

 

[Lamount]

Hello applicants. I am a fourth year student who just matched into radiation oncology, and i could not be happier with the place i ended up. I used this forum heavily during the application process because I don't have a home program and there is no one at my school who is familiar with how to apply to rad onc. This forum is a blessing (thanks to Gfunk) and a curse (thanks to many of the other posters here). One can easily get discouraged from applying based upon the supposed "stats" of other applicants.
Radiation Oncology is a very competitive field... anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something. That being said, you don't have to walk on water to match. I will share with you what I have learned during my (thankfully) limited exposure to the application process. Check out the FAQ for a more eloquent description.

Logically, you should consider the application process to have two phases: pre-interview and interview.

Pre-interview, there are four general considerations in your application (in no particular order)

1) Preclinical/clinical grades (i.e. are you Junior or Senior AOA? in the top of your class?). In 2011 roughly 1/3 of rad onc matches were AOA, and 96% of AOA rad onc applicants matched.
2) Boards scores (generally speaking Step1 is much more important than Step 2) Average on Step 1 is somewhere in the 240s
3) Research (cue the dramatic music). It seems like rad onc specific research definitely helps. I personally didn't have any rad onc research, but I had several other publications (some physics manuscripts from undergrad and non-onc presentations in med school). My sense is that my lack of rad onc research prevented me from getting interviews at SOME top places. It is possible that some top programs use this as a means of screening applicants prior to interviews, but not everyone does this... so don't think that you are hopeless if you don't have 3 first authors pubs in the red journal. If you have ANYTHING in rad onc, it certainly helps a lot, so try your best to get in on a project early (circumstances permitting). Having an MD/PhD certainly helps... but it isn't a requirement (I don't have one), and I get the sense that it was less important in this current application year than it was in previous years. As Gfunk said in his FAQ, it is very hard to crack into this field without ANY research at all. Research is important in radiation oncology, and residencies want to make certain that you are capable of publishing.
4) LORS and connections. This also seems to be a fairly important part of the application. Since I didn't have a home residency (just a clinical rad onc department), I did two away electives and got LORs from both. I again had the sense that my lack of big-wig connections hurt me, but it clearly wasn't a deal breaker. That being said, if you have the opportunity to impress a well known radiation oncologist and get a letter from them, you would be crazy not to take advantage of that opportunity.

You don't have to be the best in all four categories to get interviews (the top programs are obviously more stingy with interviews because... well... they can be). Some programs value grades/boards scores more, other value research/LORs more... and every possible permutation. I get some interviews from upper tier programs, and got snubbed by some mid tier programs... there didn't seem to be much of a rhyme or reason to it. If you don't excel in any of the four categories, applying may be an uphill battle for you.

If you want to improve your chances of getting interviews, consider which of the four areas you are deficient in. If you dont have great grades or board scores, a great research pub and a phone call/LOR from your influential PI could help offset your. If you are struggling in all four areas but still really want to enter the field, consider taking a planned year off and apply to do rad onc research at a well known center with a well known radiation oncologist.


Once you DO get an interview, the playing field becomes a little bit more equal between you and your fellow applicants. I got the sense that the interview was more important in rad onc than it is in other fields... probably because there are so few applicants accepted to a given program (2-5 compared to 30+ for int med), so the faculty have more of a stake in making certain that they can work well with every resident. By yourself, and don't be afraid to show how excited you are about the field. Interviewers really want to believe that you are truly interested in radiation oncology, so hone your personal narrative concerning how you first were introduced to the field, and when you "fell in love" with it (i.e. don't say "I did really well on the boards, so people told me to apply for rad onc"). Research comes up during interviews, so make certain you can describe ALL of the research on you application clearly and concisely. If you don't have any radiation oncology specific research, consider some rad onc research that you are interested in doing in the future (i.e. during residency) and why this research interests you. Additionally, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to do a quick search before an interview to see what rad onc research that particular program is currently working on.

After the interview, send a thank you note (at bare minimum) to the program director and department chair.

If you wanna cover your bases, send an individualized thank you note to everyone you interviewed with (this can obviously be pretty tedious, but you just spent $1000 flying across the country so writing a few emails won't kill you). If you plan on doing this, make certain to write a word or two after each meeting on your interview day so that you can keep all of the discussions straight. Some programs make you talk to over 12 people! It is impossible to remember who said what for you individualized thank you notes unless you write down a quick word as you are leaving the room. I used the UCSF rubric, and I sent all of my thank you notes via email. I found email easier (obviously), and it also has the added benefit of opening a line of communication with the faculty. I have had some long exchanges with faculty following me emailing them a thank you note, and I think this helped make me stand out.

Good luck!

 

[ortho2014]

Hello applicants. I am a fourth year student who just matched into radiation oncology, and i could not be happier with the place i ended up. I used this forum heavily during the application process because I don't have a home program and there is no one at my school who is familiar with how to apply to rad onc. This forum is a blessing (thanks to Gfunk) and a curse (thanks to many of the other posters here). One can easily get discouraged from applying based upon the supposed "stats" of other applicants.
Radiation Oncology is a very competitive field... anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something. That being said, you don't have to walk on water to match. I will share with you what I have learned during my (thankfully) limited exposure to the application process. Check out the FAQ for a more eloquent description.

Logically, you should consider the application process to have two phases: pre-interview and interview.

Pre-interview, there are four general considerations in your application (in no particular order)

1) Preclinical/clinical grades (i.e. are you Junior or Senior AOA? in the top of your class?). In 2011 roughly 1/3 of rad onc matches were AOA, and 96% of AOA rad onc applicants matched.
2) Boards scores (generally speaking Step1 is much more important than Step 2) Average on Step 1 is somewhere in the 240s
3) Research (cue the dramatic music). It seems like rad onc specific research definitely helps. I personally didn't have any rad onc research, but I had several other publications (some physics manuscripts from undergrad and non-onc presentations in med school). My sense is that my lack of rad onc research prevented me from getting interviews at SOME top places. It is possible that some top programs use this as a means of screening applicants prior to interviews, but not everyone does this... so don't think that you are hopeless if you don't have 3 first authors pubs in the red journal. If you have ANYTHING in rad onc, it certainly helps a lot, so try your best to get in on a project early (circumstances permitting). Having an MD/PhD certainly helps... but it isn't a requirement (I don't have one), and I get the sense that it was less important in this current application year than it was in previous years. As Gfunk said in his FAQ, it is very hard to crack into this field without ANY research at all. Research is important in radiation oncology, and residencies want to make certain that you are capable of publishing.
4) LORS and connections. This also seems to be a fairly important part of the application. Since I didn't have a home residency (just a clinical rad onc department), I did two away electives and got LORs from both. I again had the sense that my lack of big-wig connections hurt me, but it clearly wasn't a deal breaker. That being said, if you have the opportunity to impress a well known radiation oncologist and get a letter from them, you would be crazy not to take advantage of that opportunity.

You don't have to be the best in all four categories to get interviews (the top programs are obviously more stingy with interviews because... well... they can be). Some programs value grades/boards scores more, other value research/LORs more... and every possible permutation. I get some interviews from upper tier programs, and got snubbed by some mid tier programs... there didn't seem to be much of a rhyme or reason to it. If you don't excel in any of the four categories, applying may be an uphill battle for you.

If you want to improve your chances of getting interviews, consider which of the four areas you are deficient in. If you dont have great grades or board scores, a great research pub and a phone call/LOR from your influential PI could help offset your. If you are struggling in all four areas but still really want to enter the field, consider taking a planned year off and apply to do rad onc research at a well known center with a well known radiation oncologist.


Once you DO get an interview, the playing field becomes a little bit more equal between you and your fellow applicants. I got the sense that the interview was more important in rad onc than it is in other fields... probably because there are so few applicants accepted to a given program (2-5 compared to 30+ for int med), so the faculty have more of a stake in making certain that they can work well with every resident. By yourself, and don't be afraid to show how excited you are about the field. Interviewers really want to believe that you are truly interested in radiation oncology, so hone your personal narrative concerning how you first were introduced to the field, and when you "fell in love" with it (i.e. don't say "I did really well on the boards, so people told me to apply for rad onc"). Research comes up during interviews, so make certain you can describe ALL of the research on you application clearly and concisely. If you don't have any radiation oncology specific research, consider some rad onc research that you are interested in doing in the future (i.e. during residency) and why this research interests you. Additionally, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to do a quick search before an interview to see what rad onc research that particular program is currently working on.

After the interview, send a thank you note (at bare minimum) to the program director and department chair.

If you wanna cover your bases, send an individualized thank you note to everyone you interviewed with (this can obviously be pretty tedious, but you just spent $1000 flying across the country so writing a few emails won't kill you). If you plan on doing this, make certain to write a word or two after each meeting on your interview day so that you can keep all of the discussions straight. Some programs make you talk to over 12 people! It is impossible to remember who said what for you individualized thank you notes unless you write down a quick word as you are leaving the room. I used the UCSF rubric, and I sent all of my thank you notes via email. I found email easier (obviously), and it also has the added benefit of opening a line of communication with the faculty. I have had some long exchanges with faculty following me emailing them a thank you note, and I think this helped make me stand out.

Good luck!

thanks! what is the UCSF rubric?