Historically Cush TY/Prelim programs that are no longer cush?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Perforin

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
114
Reaction score
0
Anybody aware of historically "cush" TY/Prelim programs that have changed and are no longer cush? I saw a thread about Macneal in Chicago where somebody mentioned it has a cush reputation but they've recently changed it so it is not so cush. It would be nice to know of such programs.

Members don't see this ad.
 
.
 
Last edited:
surprised there arent more posts here. depends on how you define cush. if you look at the number of outpatient months, virginia mason (VM) transitional year is good. you get about 4 (5 if you're really lucky).
the prelim medicine people get 5-6 but do more medicine wards.
that being said, it is a busy year.
im pretty sure i heard or read that VM used to be (more) cush.
if anybody actually interviewed here, you should contact me.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Big shoutout to Lehigh Valley for no longer being a cushy TY. Program purports 5 months of call-free electives(which actually aren't) and the easy electives are all for like 1-2 weeks only(not to mention you are vying against even upper-year residents for them) so you get stuck with "uncushy" electives..8 weeks of ICU, both medical ICU and cardiac ICU which are brutal, and time-wise is at the high end of ICU time even when compared to academic internal medicine years...4 weeks of BRUTAL night float...1 month of ED required, which includes level 1 trauma center(busy!!)...3 months of floors which include covering night float some weekends. Most troubling is the divide between transitionals and categoricals(DOs and FMGs)..TYs get treated differently by residents and faculty alike, and there is a bad relationship with lot of passive-aggressive behavior by upper-years who will throw you under the bus in half a heartbeat. And to top it all off, the place is more interested in billing than teaching, with private hospital groups and hospitalists..
 
Big shoutout to Lehigh Valley for no longer being a cushy TY. Program purports 5 months of call-free electives(which actually aren't) and the easy electives are all for like 1-2 weeks only(not to mention you are vying against even upper-year residents for them) so you get stuck with "uncushy" electives..8 weeks of ICU, both medical ICU and cardiac ICU which are brutal, and time-wise is at the high end of ICU time even when compared to academic internal medicine years...4 weeks of BRUTAL night float...1 month of ED required, which includes level 1 trauma center(busy!!)...3 months of floors which include covering night float some weekends. Most troubling is the divide between transitionals and categoricals(DOs and FMGs)..TYs get treated differently by residents and faculty alike, and there is a bad relationship with lot of passive-aggressive behavior by upper-years who will throw you under the bus in half a heartbeat. And to top it all off, the place is more interested in billing than teaching, with private hospital groups and hospitalists..

8 weeks of micu and cicu .... Check these are busy and intense

It's actually 2 to 3 weeks of night float not 4, overnight cap is 5 admits for intern 10 for the team

The Ed rotation is not at the level 1 trauma center and is 15 to 18 shifts of 9 hours each
over a 28 day peroid ( some extra academic days half days though)

3 months of floors ... Check ( other then some of the overnight hospitalist I never had a poor experience with a medicine attending some of them were very cool people ) it's 5.5 to 6 days a week usually carrying 6 to 8 patients per weekday 1 or 2 admits per afternoon

The overall relationships between Ty and medicine interns and upper years was excellent if under the bus throwing occured it is a very rare thing

Great benefits I spent nothing on food at work until I ran out of money the last month, step 3 paid for and extra days off for a conference and lots of vacation 14 days plus holiday week

There are easier places out there but there are many more harder places. Some limited elective choices as they are very by the book in regards to acgme requirements if you
advanced program doesn't explicitly spell things out. The once a week short call on wards is rough 3 admits in 3 hours plus cross cover 60 patients and code blues you hardly ever get out on time. Other days you are usually out the door at 4 or 5. Micu is rough 80 hours but some of the best teachers in the program. The new program director is a good guy used to be a Ty before switching to med then ended up staying. Probably some of the above will change but that was my experience. Glad to be done with intern year.



Biggest complaints is the restricted elective choc
 
Yet another NYC TY is likely to bite the dust. A friend of mine at Sound Shore says they're laying people off (although I assume not residents).

I think it's a trend that the NYC TY programs tend to be at hospitals on the brink (with the exception of MSK).

Flushing is certainly a hole, and the two most cush TYs of the past decade (St Vincent's and Cabrini) were both closed down.
 
Yet another NYC TY is likely to bite the dust. A friend of mine at Sound Shore says they're laying people off (although I assume not residents).

I think it's a trend that the NYC TY programs tend to be at hospitals on the brink (with the exception of MSK).

Flushing is certainly a hole, and the two most cush TYs of the past decade (St Vincent's and Cabrini) were both closed down.

Wow no kidding? When were St. Vincent and Cabrini closed?
 
Yeah not much is left in the tri-state area. My rec's are behind most of the PA TY programs (minus LHV?).
 
8 weeks of micu and cicu .... Check these are busy and intense

It's actually 2 to 3 weeks of night float not 4, overnight cap is 5 admits for intern 10 for the team

The Ed rotation is not at the level 1 trauma center and is 15 to 18 shifts of 9 hours each
over a 28 day peroid ( some extra academic days half days though)

3 months of floors ... Check ( other then some of the overnight hospitalist I never had a poor experience with a medicine attending some of them were very cool people ) it's 5.5 to 6 days a week usually carrying 6 to 8 patients per weekday 1 or 2 admits per afternoon

The overall relationships between Ty and medicine interns and upper years was excellent if under the bus throwing occured it is a very rare thing

Great benefits I spent nothing on food at work until I ran out of money the last month, step 3 paid for and extra days off for a conference and lots of vacation 14 days plus holiday week

There are easier places out there but there are many more harder places. Some limited elective choices as they are very by the book in regards to acgme requirements if you
advanced program doesn't explicitly spell things out. The once a week short call on wards is rough 3 admits in 3 hours plus cross cover 60 patients and code blues you hardly ever get out on time. Other days you are usually out the door at 4 or 5. Micu is rough 80 hours but some of the best teachers in the program. The new program director is a good guy used to be a Ty before switching to med then ended up staying. Probably some of the above will change but that was my experience. Glad to be done with intern year.



Biggest complaints is the restricted elective choc
Umm isn't this thread "that are no longer cush"? Things are VERY different this year with the new PD, so your experience last year is irrelevant to how it is NOW.

Only 1-2 people have 2-3 weeks of night float, and they are the exception, not the rule. Everyone else has 4 weeks which is the norm. On night float, your work with a private practice hospitalist group (entire hospital is private practice groups) who have basically 0 incentive to teach, but has a large one to use us for scut and to maximize RVUs. And yes the TEAM is capped at 10 admissions, but that doesn't mean you won't do 8-9 of those per night as the TY intern while the upper year sleeps (I'm not exaggerating this actually happened)

Yes, we do rotate on ED through cedar crest, and it is a level 1 trauma center. Furthermore, you will work night shifts and then expected to have to come back a few hours later after a night shift for mandatory ED daytime conferences, otherwise they will fail you (their malignant attitude was even commented medicine residents)

On medicine floors (3 months), most residents come in a 5 am, carry 7-8 patients daily, and have 1 16+ shift per month where they cover sat night float and have to stay the next day to write 10+ notes. When on short call once/wk, interns get stuck until at least 9 pm (which has caused numerous work hour violations).

As far as MICU, I have violated my work hours. My definition of cush isn't working 14-15 hr days getting abused in some ****ty ICU for 2 months with 0 teaching and just scut and bitchy nurses, with work hour violations, but I don't know what your definition is. As soon as they saw I was a TY (which is clearly labelled on our white coats), I got zero teaching or respect.

As far as upper year residents go, its a community program and essentially all DOs and FMGs. Nothing personally against either group, but expect low quality didactics, don't expect strong guidance or help from upper years (hell if any guidance at all). There is also an institutional barrier put up between categoricals and transitionals, with categoricals cohorted with upper years who "take them under their wing". Expect a range of behavior from the categoricals from passive-aggressive to outright hostility and being "thrown under the bus" as a TY.

In a nutshell, if being promised things at the interview to then be reneged upon post-match, work hour violations, passive-aggressive behavior, categoricals that definitely don't have your back, and scutwork with minimal to zero teaching is your idea of cushy, then by all means apply to Lehigh. Knowing what I know now, if I could do the match over again, I wouldn't have even interviewed at or ranked Lehigh.
 
Umm isn't this thread "that are no longer cush"? Things are VERY different this year with the new PD, so your experience last year is irrelevant to how it is NOW.

Only 1-2 people have 2-3 weeks of night float, and they are the exception, not the rule. Everyone else has 4 weeks which is the norm. On night float, your work with a private practice hospitalist group (entire hospital is private practice groups) who have basically 0 incentive to teach, but has a large one to use us for scut and to maximize RVUs. And yes the TEAM is capped at 10 admissions, but that doesn't mean you won't do 8-9 of those per night as the TY intern while the upper year sleeps (I'm not exaggerating this actually happened)

Yes, we do rotate on ED through cedar crest, and it is a level 1 trauma center. Furthermore, you will work night shifts and then expected to have to come back a few hours later after a night shift for mandatory ED daytime conferences, otherwise they will fail you (their malignant attitude was even commented medicine residents)

On medicine floors (3 months), most residents come in a 5 am, carry 7-8 patients daily, and have 1 16+ shift per month where they cover sat night float and have to stay the next day to write 10+ notes. When on short call once/wk, interns get stuck until at least 9 pm (which has caused numerous work hour violations).

As far as MICU, I have violated my work hours. My definition of cush isn't working 14-15 hr days getting abused in some ****ty ICU for 2 months with 0 teaching and just scut and bitchy nurses, with work hour violations, but I don't know what your definition is. As soon as they saw I was a TY (which is clearly labelled on our white coats), I got zero teaching or respect.

As far as upper year residents go, its a community program and essentially all DOs and FMGs. Nothing personally against either group, but expect low quality didactics, don't expect strong guidance or help from upper years (hell if any guidance at all). There is also an institutional barrier put up between categoricals and transitionals, with categoricals cohorted with upper years who "take them under their wing". Expect a range of behavior from the categoricals from passive-aggressive to outright hostility and being "thrown under the bus" as a TY.

In a nutshell, if being promised things at the interview to then be reneged upon post-match, work hour violations, passive-aggressive behavior, categoricals that definitely don't have your back, and scutwork with minimal to zero teaching is your idea of cushy, then by all means apply to Lehigh. Knowing what I know now, if I could do the match over again, I wouldn't have even interviewed at or ranked Lehigh.

...wow
 
Umm isn't this thread "that are no longer cush"? Things are VERY different this year with the new PD, so your experience last year is irrelevant to how it is NOW.

Only 1-2 people have 2-3 weeks of night float, and they are the exception, not the rule. Everyone else has 4 weeks which is the norm. On night float, your work with a private practice hospitalist group (entire hospital is private practice groups) who have basically 0 incentive to teach, but has a large one to use us for scut and to maximize RVUs. And yes the TEAM is capped at 10 admissions, but that doesn't mean you won't do 8-9 of those per night as the TY intern while the upper year sleeps (I'm not exaggerating this actually happened)

Yes, we do rotate on ED through cedar crest, and it is a level 1 trauma center. Furthermore, you will work night shifts and then expected to have to come back a few hours later after a night shift for mandatory ED daytime conferences, otherwise they will fail you (their malignant attitude was even commented medicine residents)

On medicine floors (3 months), most residents come in a 5 am, carry 7-8 patients daily, and have 1 16+ shift per month where they cover sat night float and have to stay the next day to write 10+ notes. When on short call once/wk, interns get stuck until at least 9 pm (which has caused numerous work hour violations).

As far as MICU, I have violated my work hours. My definition of cush isn't working 14-15 hr days getting abused in some ****ty ICU for 2 months with 0 teaching and just scut and bitchy nurses, with work hour violations, but I don't know what your definition is. As soon as they saw I was a TY (which is clearly labelled on our white coats), I got zero teaching or respect.

As far as upper year residents go, its a community program and essentially all DOs and FMGs. Nothing personally against either group, but expect low quality didactics, don't expect strong guidance or help from upper years (hell if any guidance at all). There is also an institutional barrier put up between categoricals and transitionals, with categoricals cohorted with upper years who "take them under their wing". Expect a range of behavior from the categoricals from passive-aggressive to outright hostility and being "thrown under the bus" as a TY.

In a nutshell, if being promised things at the interview to then be reneged upon post-match, work hour violations, passive-aggressive behavior, categoricals that definitely don't have your back, and scutwork with minimal to zero teaching is your idea of cushy, then by all means apply to Lehigh. Knowing what I know now, if I could do the match over again, I wouldn't have even interviewed at or ranked Lehigh.

Damn. Just posted about Reading on the other thread and how great it is. Interviewed at LHV and had thought that one wasn't bad. Thank god I ranked it where I did.
 
surprised there arent more posts here. depends on how you define cush. if you look at the number of outpatient months, virginia mason (VM) transitional year is good. you get about 4 (5 if you're really lucky).
the prelim medicine people get 5-6 but do more medicine wards.
that being said, it is a busy year.
im pretty sure i heard or read that VM used to be (more) cush.
if anybody actually interviewed here, you should contact me.

Sorry to say this, but the above post does not address FATAL FLAWS.
The number of electives ultimately doesn't matter, esp when the entire culture, attitudes, environment, etc. (leadership, faculty, residents, support staff, etc.) is beyond rotten.
They have no problem going out of their way to destroy your entire career, esp non categoricals. Abuse of non categoricals (and some categoricals too) has gone on for many years. By abuse, I mean just about every single kind of abuse you can think of and more. So much has been covered up and swept under the rug. It is so bad that even Virginia Mason alumni do not feel safe to speak up. Even if there were a 1 day residency here, avoid it like the Holocaust. Don't be naive or roll the dice. Don't risk your entire future.
DO NOT LET ANYONE OR ANYTHING FOOL YOU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hey so I saw some previous comments about Lehigh Valley's TY program - was wondering if it has changed since then? It seems that they offer a good number of electives - are the choices still very limited?
 
Can anyone weigh in on the Flushing prelim?
 
Can anyone weigh in on the Flushing prelim?
At NYP/Q? If so, I wasn't impressed. Most interns there sounded like they were just checking to box of intern year (maybe 3-4 interns SOAPed there?) One guy I interviewed with told me I should have definitely gone on to more TY programs. Will rank it last, if at all.
 
At NYP/Q? If so, I wasn't impressed. Most interns there sounded like they were just checking to box of intern year (maybe 3-4 interns SOAPed there?) One guy I interviewed with told me I should have definitely gone on to more TY programs. Will rank it last, if at all.
Isn't that basically what all prelim interns are doing?
 
Isn't that basically what all prelim interns are doing?
There have been some programs where they have been genuinely happy, and others who are pleased with the amount of learning done. But you are correct, it's just a year before doing what we really want. Still, I'd rather be happy & learn something
 
Top