Hepatology...Fact vs. Fiction

[gmacpac]

I apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed but I could not find it in recent threads.

I am planning on applying to GI programs for the NEXT application cycle. I am also looking into Hepatology programs as well in case I do not match into GI on first try, however, one of the GI fellows at my program told me that if I am to do Hepatology BEFORE GI fellowship, I would not be able to get board certified in Hepatology (even after completing GI fellowship). And in future if I am to stick with Hepatology ONLY without pursuing GI track, my job prospects would limited.

Any thoughts on this? It seems odd that doing Hepatology without GI should prevent anyone from being board certified in Hepatology.

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[Gastrapathy]

Fact. And easily verified on the ABIM website. These programs used to be a backdoor into GI but no longer. Best backdoor I know of is Temples motility year. You can't get into an approved transplant fellowship without doing GI first. The programs that will take you are outside the ACGME.

 

[gmacpac]

Thank you Gastrapathy.

 

[brujerizmo]

my two cents... so I interviewed at a clinical program in the midwest and the PD was staunchly anti-hepatology year... he said he will not interview anybody who had a hepatology year under their belt for various reasons... I would not do a hepatology year at all based on his thoughts on the subject

 

[nycscope]

On the other hand, I know at least 3 people who didn't match the first time round and did after their hep year. Of course, that could be because of a great number of improvements/additions to their profile...the PD's I've spoken to seem to view it favorably. It's a year of experience, fellow level responsibility, demonstration of commitment, and additional research opportunity. You can't run a transplant program out of it, and, frankly, you shouldn't be able to unless you are a certified GI first. However, I see no downside (if one is truly committed to GI and no other field) to doing a year of hep if you don't match...bolster your chances for another go and get some experience out of it; this would've been my backup plan if I didn't match.

Available ones I found simply by website search (and some additional information after further inquiry within my own program and elsewhere...Hepatology, as with all sub-specialties, is a somewhat small pond with lots of big, recognizable fish:

Temple --> will only take their own...bridge year into GI for them.
Rutgers --> VERY busy program, university hospital, not robert wood...good match into GI.
UMissouri --> lots of outpatient hep with some transplant exposure...this is nice actually.
Virginia Mason --> 2 year program, research expected.
Dartmouth --> interviews earlier than the others. good program, academic, want research.
UChicago --> this is a cool one actually, clinical nutrition. prefer GI fellows, but still possible.
Einstein (Philly) website SAYS nonaccredited at present, but I can assure you it is.

 

[midgut1975]

Dear all,

This information may find helpful to some folks who are looking for non-accredited hepatology fellowships in order to enhance their CV/get into GI. It is important to work at the institution that helps you achieve your goals as oppose to just work without support for your career advancement. An extra year of life invested is crucial for all of us and should be used to get most out of it. For example certain small community programs (e.g. CMC in North Carolina I heard from many people and local residents that it is not IMG friendly at all and there is absolutely no chance to match into GI locally or elsewhere). I encourage people to apply to at least university based programs (non accredited, as accredited require prior GI fellowship) where letters of faculty members/better research may matter in obtaining IVs or matching process. I know many people who matched into GI after doing hepatology at University place compare to community hospital which may also be due to academic ties/contacts of faculty members as they are likely to be well known in the society. Hope this finds helps to people who are planning to pursue Hepatology training before GI.

 

[HepKing]

my two cents... so I interviewed at a clinical program in the midwest and the PD was staunchly anti-hepatology year... he said he will not interview anybody who had a hepatology year under their belt for various reasons... I would not do a hepatology year at all based on his thoughts on the subject

I have known 6 people in the last 3 years who got into GI after doing this route.

The caveat here is they had to do work for one year after a single hepatology year unless they were in the 2 year track at some program.
The key thing to realize is that the letters come from hepatology program come in when you are in for one year. Doesn't make sense for them to write you a letter the moment you walk in.
Nothing is a shoe-in, no matter what they say.

My friends' profiles:

All IMGs, 1 with visa, 1 had applied 7 times before working as a hospitalist and publishing in low impact journals, did one year transplant, then did one year of practice and then got in.
Another did one year of transplant right after residency and then one year of practice and got in
Another did chief, one year of transplant, then got in.
Others did 2 year programs and got in.

I think the comment by that particular PD above is not worthnoting. Board certified Hepatologists bill the highest RVUs currently and the backbones of large multidisciplinary transplant centers.

I think other than getting into motility, nutrition, a chief year; hepatologist is the next best option. Another could be doing research on the side as a hospitalist but there are too many sad tales out there re: that.

I would add these to the transplant list:
- Baylor
- Nebraska
- NIH
- Tennessee

 

[midgut1975]

I would keep CMC Charlotte community Hepatology program on the way bottom because of multiple prior adverse experiences. Agree with above list.

 

[hotsauce23]

I disagree with all the negative comments towards CMC Charlotte's hepatology program. I'm an IMG, and finished that fellowship last year and successfully matched into their GI program. I also personally know others that have matched GI there after doing hepatology. In addition, there have been multiple fellows before me that matched at other GI programs. The PD and attendings will assist you in any way they can to assure you put your best foot forward through the application process. The fellowship itself gives you lots inpatient and outpatient experience. It's a rapidly growing transplant center and you will get ample amounts of exposure to pre and post transplant patients. There are plenty of research opportunities. I think no matter where you go, you have to exhibit passion, work hard, and show them you would be a good fit for their GI program.

 

[blackberry999]

Stumbled on this outdated thread and hope people find this message helpful.

I completely disagree with the negative comments about the CMC-Charlotte hepatology program. I am an IMG, was accepted to the 1 year hepatology fellowship from residency and matched into GI straight from the program. I know others who have done so as well.

It is an excellent fellowship with outstanding, well trained, and (just as important) supportive faculty. The volume of transplants continues to grow with great stats and positive outcomes. There is constant opportunity to learn both in the inpatient and outpatient setting. There are many opportunities for conferences --weekly pathology, transplant selection, radiology, case conference and monthly research conference and journal club. You are also able to attend GI conferences (IBD, pathology, grand rounds, fellow lectures) and get to know the GI faculty.

There are also plenty of opportunities for research with a great stats/research department that is as motivated as you are to seeing your project through. I was able to create a project, collect data, and submit an abstract to a national conference within 3 months, alongside clinical duties and presentations. This shows there is a great work/life balance, which is also important.

On my GI interviews (which were a wide geographic range--from the Northeast to other programs in NC and even further South), everyone knew and spoke highly of at least one faculty member from the hepatology department. To also counter statements written previously, interviewers all stated doing a hepatology year was very desirable to their program.

It's honestly hard to find a negative thing to say about CMC-Charlotte. This is the kind of place you want to train at. No matter what program you do end up at, you need to be passionate, hard working, and have a good attitude. Each situation and opportunity given is ultimately what you make of it.

 

[asterixis]

Stumbled on this outdated thread and hope people find this message helpful.

I completely disagree with the negative comments about the CMC-Charlotte hepatology program. I am an IMG, was accepted to the 1 year hepatology fellowship from residency and matched into GI straight from the program. I know others who have done so as well.

It is an excellent fellowship with outstanding, well trained, and (just as important) supportive faculty. The volume of transplants continues to grow with great stats and positive outcomes. There is constant opportunity to learn both in the inpatient and outpatient setting. There are many opportunities for conferences --weekly pathology, transplant selection, radiology, case conference and monthly research conference and journal club. You are also able to attend GI conferences (IBD, pathology, grand rounds, fellow lectures) and get to know the GI faculty.

There are also plenty of opportunities for research with a great stats/research department that is as motivated as you are to seeing your project through. I was able to create a project, collect data, and submit an abstract to a national conference within 3 months, alongside clinical duties and presentations. This shows there is a great work/life balance, which is also important.

On my GI interviews (which were a wide geographic range--from the Northeast to other programs in NC and even further South), everyone knew and spoke highly of at least one faculty member from the hepatology department. To also counter statements written previously, interviewers all stated doing a hepatology year was very desirable to their program.

It's honestly hard to find a negative thing to say about CMC-Charlotte. This is the kind of place you want to train at. No matter what program you do end up at, you need to be passionate, hard working, and have a good attitude. Each situation and opportunity given is ultimately what you make of it.

 

[asterixis]

Strongly agree with blackberry999. CMC Hepatology is an excellent program. Terrific faculty and staff. I have nothing but great things to say about the program. I matched into GI after my hepatology year and am now practicing. I received strong letters of recommendation from the program faculty which helped with my GI application.

 

[Gastrapathy]

You guys need to try a little harder. 3 posts in a necrobumped thread from first time posters. Not credible.

 

[justme885]

Interesting to see CMC Hepatology popping up on the map.
Gastrapathy I can understand your concern but if anyone would like verification feel free to message me. Coming from an IMG, through that program, published work in a major journal with the PD and finally a GI fellowship. I never post but its tough to read about "adverse events" when that's simply not the truth.

Best of luck to everyone pushing for fellowship!

 

[Gastrapathy]

Man, you guys were all told to get on here, eh?

 

[Marines305]

Not sure where you’re getting this information from regarding the benefits of this program.

A friend of mine interviewed there last year and said that they faculty did not rave much about the program itself...

 

[Planes2Doc]

I only came here to hear about CMC-Charlotte...

 

[FattySlug]

I did not know this is a thing. So many things to learn.
Just to make sure I understand this correctly. If you do not get into GI the first try and looking for ways to boost your chances you can choose to do a year of hepatology in some programs but these programs are outside of ACGME so you will not be able to be board certified for hepatology after you finish our GI fellowship (if you get in of course)?

 

[Suprep]

I did not know this is a thing. So many things to learn.
Just to make sure I understand this correctly. If you do not get into GI the first try and looking for ways to boost your chances you can choose to do a year of hepatology in some programs but these programs are outside of ACGME so you will not be able to be board certified for hepatology after you finish our GI fellowship (if you get in of course)?

there is no boards for gen hepatology. Transplant hepatology boards can only be taken after finishing GI boards. some non ACGME ones may be able to certify one for transplant boards, provided that person finishes GI fellowship.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I don’t think that’s accurate. ABIM requires GI first or will allow eligibility to GI fellows via the 3 year pilot.