D
deleted343839
Would you attend if the program offered you a spot, and you had no other offers? If the answer is yes, schedule an interview if you can manage it.
"Help me decide" mega thread
- Thread starter IcedBennu
- Start date
-
- Tags
- choosing programs clinical psychology cw liu post george washington university help deciding liu clinical psyd liu post liu post psyd liu psyd long island university psyd pacific pacific university psy.d psychology psyd sopp the wright institute university of hartford university of hartford clinical university of hartford psyd wright state wright state university
Would you attend if the program offered you a spot, and you had no other offers? If the answer is yes, schedule an interview if you can manage it.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 18
- Reaction score
- 4
That is exactly what my adviser said to me. You're not my adviser, right?? I decided my answer is no, so I withdrew. Kind of too soon to tell, but I feel okay about my decision. Hopefully this means that someone else who's really interested in the program will be invited to interview!
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 65
Hello, I would like some help deciding what to do. I was accepted into a phd program with funding and a really good advisor (We will call this school number 1). I was surprised by the positive experience on interview day, as the school was actually my wildcard so to speak. My potential advisor was great and his research is in the realm of my interests. As I am sure many of you have experienced, I went into the application cycle with a top choice (we will call this school number 2). School number 2 is a private university in a pretty cool city. But.....When I interviewed at my top choice, it fell short of my expectations. Mainly, the POI was not what I was expecting. Additionally, funding is apparently not nearly as good as I thought and it would certainty be more expensive than school number 1 (we are talking 1200 a credit hour here). Also, the city is more expensive to live in. However, I will say I think I like some aspects of the curriculum better at school number 2. I was wait-listed at school number 2 and am essentially wondering if I should wait out the wait list to see what happens? I mainly would love advice about things to consider/ things people who have gone through this process wish they had known relevant to my situation. Thanks!
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2006
- Messages
- 22,380
- Reaction score
- 4,315
Assuming both are APA-cared., whichever will result in less debt.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
Based on the very limited information, school 1 would be my top choice.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2016
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 3
I've had the great (mis?)fortune of being accepted to two PhD programs and waitlisted at a 3rd. I need to act quickly because I don't want to sit on the two offers for too long, as per good graduate school parlance.
About me: I'm currently in a research-oriented MA, studying under a social psych advisor, though I've always been more fond of clinical and developmental psych. In undergrad I was involved in development and clinical research labs, and wrote a developmentally-oriented thesis. I have interest in maintaining my research-track, but have always loved the option of dipping out of the academy if things don't stay so rosy (the flexibility of a clinical psych degree is unparalleled, in my opinion). I spent a summer working in a residential treatment facility and have a year working in a clinical research lab, so I'm certainly into the possibility of being a clinician.
Here are my options--
School 1: Accepted at a top 10 social psychology PhD. This program is fantastic. The money is impressive; it's got great name recognition; the department and the lab both have great resources; it's very close to home; and it's in a place I've always wanted to live in. However, I prefer clinical to social psych. Our research fit is decent. There is one substantial red flag--I've heard and seen some questionable things about my potential mentor. The person with whom I would work is very dead set on researching a particular construct--one that I find to be interesting, but researched in ways that I find less-than-savory. I've read online and heard from former lab members/graduate students that they can be fairly inflexible on this, and at times hard to work with. I fancy myself an especially patient person/student/advisee (informant report, not just self-report), so I'm thinking with maybe enough preemptive communication (emails before committing?) and tactful patience I can navigate any potential discrepancies between my burgeoning research paradigm and their pre-existing one. I can always fall back on the fact that I was admitted to the program and not the lab and worse comes to worst, I can switch labs and still be in a great program.
School 2: Accepted at a top 45 clinical psychology PhD. It's a solid program, decently close to home (6 hours by car). The money is there but it certainly isn't as good as School 1. The reputation is good (PI's lab alumni have all gotten faculty positions). Research fit is pretty solid; the department seems nice; it's in a pretty cool location. Perhaps the only drawback--and I know this seems gauche--is that it's not particularly flashy. It's a flagship state school, with *okay* name recognition and only a modest stipend.
School 3: Waitlisted, at a top 10 child clinical program...I was told that 2 of the 4 spots have been filled, one more seems likely to be accepted, and a final spot may or may not be accepted. That person won't be letting the school know until 3/28. I really really love this program, but a.) the chances seem slim at this point and b.) it's far, far away from family. I currently live 8 hours by car, but this would be 16 (although obviously quicker and more inconvenient via airplane).
It seems like each school offers a very convincing pro and an equally convincing con. As you can tell by the timestamp, it's literally keeping me up at night. So, do I go with the lavish, but risky school 1; the safe but not-so-flashy school 2, or do I say goodbye to family and gamble on waiting for school 3? Maybe y'all can help me figure it out...thanks!
About me: I'm currently in a research-oriented MA, studying under a social psych advisor, though I've always been more fond of clinical and developmental psych. In undergrad I was involved in development and clinical research labs, and wrote a developmentally-oriented thesis. I have interest in maintaining my research-track, but have always loved the option of dipping out of the academy if things don't stay so rosy (the flexibility of a clinical psych degree is unparalleled, in my opinion). I spent a summer working in a residential treatment facility and have a year working in a clinical research lab, so I'm certainly into the possibility of being a clinician.
Here are my options--
School 1: Accepted at a top 10 social psychology PhD. This program is fantastic. The money is impressive; it's got great name recognition; the department and the lab both have great resources; it's very close to home; and it's in a place I've always wanted to live in. However, I prefer clinical to social psych. Our research fit is decent. There is one substantial red flag--I've heard and seen some questionable things about my potential mentor. The person with whom I would work is very dead set on researching a particular construct--one that I find to be interesting, but researched in ways that I find less-than-savory. I've read online and heard from former lab members/graduate students that they can be fairly inflexible on this, and at times hard to work with. I fancy myself an especially patient person/student/advisee (informant report, not just self-report), so I'm thinking with maybe enough preemptive communication (emails before committing?) and tactful patience I can navigate any potential discrepancies between my burgeoning research paradigm and their pre-existing one. I can always fall back on the fact that I was admitted to the program and not the lab and worse comes to worst, I can switch labs and still be in a great program.
School 2: Accepted at a top 45 clinical psychology PhD. It's a solid program, decently close to home (6 hours by car). The money is there but it certainly isn't as good as School 1. The reputation is good (PI's lab alumni have all gotten faculty positions). Research fit is pretty solid; the department seems nice; it's in a pretty cool location. Perhaps the only drawback--and I know this seems gauche--is that it's not particularly flashy. It's a flagship state school, with *okay* name recognition and only a modest stipend.
School 3: Waitlisted, at a top 10 child clinical program...I was told that 2 of the 4 spots have been filled, one more seems likely to be accepted, and a final spot may or may not be accepted. That person won't be letting the school know until 3/28. I really really love this program, but a.) the chances seem slim at this point and b.) it's far, far away from family. I currently live 8 hours by car, but this would be 16 (although obviously quicker and more inconvenient via airplane).
It seems like each school offers a very convincing pro and an equally convincing con. As you can tell by the timestamp, it's literally keeping me up at night. So, do I go with the lavish, but risky school 1; the safe but not-so-flashy school 2, or do I say goodbye to family and gamble on waiting for school 3? Maybe y'all can help me figure it out...thanks!
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
Hard to give advice without knowing your career goals. Your career options between choices 1 and 2 are substantially different. Do you have any clinical career aspirations? Or is it academia all the way?
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2016
- Messages
- 27
- Reaction score
- 43
Hello. I have been offered spots at two APA accredited clinical psychology PhD programs and it is a tough decision. Any help and advice is really appreciated!
School 1
Pros: success in student publications and career outcomes, higher rank, better clinical training (has in house clinic), POI has more experience supervising students and has experience on journal review boards, I received a prestigious fellowship here, slightly better quality of life (bigger city)
Cons: POI hasn't had a grant for the last few years, I have to TA the entire time (time consuming), funding only guaranteed for 4 years
School 2
Pros: similar funding but guaranteed for entire duration, POI has several (small) grants, more opportunities for interdisciplinary research, I don't have to TA that much (at least not for 1st and 5th years)
Cons: has no student outcomes because the program is new and my POI is new, POI's previous students didn't have a lot of publications with them
The two programs are comparable in terms of publication record of POIs, research interest fit, and cost of living.
School 1
Pros: success in student publications and career outcomes, higher rank, better clinical training (has in house clinic), POI has more experience supervising students and has experience on journal review boards, I received a prestigious fellowship here, slightly better quality of life (bigger city)
Cons: POI hasn't had a grant for the last few years, I have to TA the entire time (time consuming), funding only guaranteed for 4 years
School 2
Pros: similar funding but guaranteed for entire duration, POI has several (small) grants, more opportunities for interdisciplinary research, I don't have to TA that much (at least not for 1st and 5th years)
Cons: has no student outcomes because the program is new and my POI is new, POI's previous students didn't have a lot of publications with them
The two programs are comparable in terms of publication record of POIs, research interest fit, and cost of living.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
Doesn't seem like much of a decision for me. School 1 would be my easy choice. Although I don't see why you would need to TA if you received a fellowship. In the vast majority of programs, fellowships pay your stipends, so you don't have to TA or RA.
D
deleted343839
I have the same question as WisNeuro - why would you have to TA if you also have a fellowship at School 1?
Being a TA does take time, mostly concentrated around grading periods, but in the big picture I wouldn't consider it a major negative. On the plus side, it can be good experience, especially if you can lead a lab/discussion section or provide a lot of one-on-one support for small courses.
I'd go with School 1 regardless. Unless you have no other options or the other school is just a significantly better fit, my advice is to choose an advisor and program with a good track record. Plus they're giving you a fellowship - presumably that's good for something other than a line on your CV?
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2016
- Messages
- 27
- Reaction score
- 43
Thank you for your helpful advice! I should have clarified that the fellowship is a top-off, so I do have to TA for school 1.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2016
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 3
The career options between the three schools aren't all that different -- all three are research/science programs; it just so happens that the clinical programs offer APA accredited training--they're clinical science programs, nonetheless. I've been trained for the past 4 years in research and academia -- my future career has been canalizing as a result. For the time being, I would say yes, academia (not at an R1, but probably more of an R2-type university). That being said, I love clinical-oriented research, I think I would enjoy the training, and feel it would enhance my understanding of human behavior. So let's say I'm 80-20 or 75-25 research/clinical as far as career goals...
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
The career opportunities available to a Clinical Psychology PhD are very different than one obtaining a Social Psychology PhD. Social Psych programs will not prepare you for clinical work, and I imagine you would have an extremely difficult time obtaining an internship. I have personally never seen an application come across my desk from a Social Psych program in my review of over a hundred applications in recent years. If clinical work and research is in your career plans, then a clinical program should be the way you go.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2016
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 2
This my first time seeking emotional support from strangers online, so bear with me here.
Stats:
UG: B.S. Psychology, 3.97 overall, 4.0 departmental, honors thesis, total of 1.5yrs undergrad research exp across 2 labs, clinical exp: "bereavement volunteer" at local hospice 1 year
Post-Bacc (2013 - present): supervised kids in psychiatric residential tx facility, paid RA on multi-dept R01-funded project in school of medicine doing clinical interviewing, psychophysio data collection, and lots of research: 6 posters (3 first author, 3 co author) at national conferences (ADAA, ISTSS, SOBP), co-presenter at 1 symposium for small private college's conference (nothing major, but i thought it would be good CV fodder), 1 in-progress first-author manuscript, another 1 in-progress poster for ISTSS 2016
Other details: amazing LOR providers (worked with me individually, not just "she was in my class, did x, y z., would be great for your school"), personal statement critiqued and approved by all 3 LOR writers, 2 post-docs who supervise me at my RA job, and 2 current grads students I worked with as undergrad.
Story thus far:
First time applying to research-oriented clinical psychology PhD programs. Applied to 11, interviewed at 2.5 (one was a phone pre-interview that did not turn into an official on-site interview), accepted into 1. Specifically, Temple University, my top choice, interviewed, waitlisted, and rejected me. I interviewed and was accepted into Fordham University's clinical psych phd program with full funding.
Dilemma:
I am in love with Temple's program. The POI's interests are pretty much a perfect match with mine, her grad students did nothing but rave about her as a mentor, overall grad students seemed really happy, the cameraderie is really great within cohorts, they just built a gorgeous, new community psychological services center 1 block from the psych building for practicum, Philadelphia is a beautiful city (walked around it a bit while I was there to get a feel for it) and surprisingly affordable on a grad stipend according all the students I talked to.
Fordham's program seemed average to me. The students were a little more stressed out, POI's interests are close but not 100% match, POI also doesn't have a lab, grants, or projects - you basically come to them tell them what you want and you build a project from scratch, they don't have a in-house clinic but NYC also has alot of great externship sites, NYC-living is obviously expensive and difficult on a grad stipend, and I have some concerns, though not overly large, about their Jesuit history.
I was devastated about Temple, and now I'm considering reapplying next year 1) for another shot at it, and 2) I'm not happy with Fordham and might go somewhere else even if it's not Temple. I just feel like I'd be really really happy at Temple, though, and I'm afraid if I go to Fordham, I'll just be doing it to get a degree and won't really enjoy the experience. It's kind of selfish when alot of people don't even get into a program at all, but I want to get a degree doing what I love and love the place/people I'm doing it at at/with. Essentially, i want to have my cake and eat it too. It's a purely irrational, emotion-based assumption, but I really want to be happy at my program for the next 5-6 years of my life, and I don't get that gut reaction with Fordham. I watched some of the grad students at my undergrad's clinical program deteriorate in health and spirit because they really didn't like the program, but didn't want to risk the uncertainties of re-applying. Another one had the exact same dilemma when she applied: had great stats, tons of research experience, was accepted into 1 school, and didn't love it, so she made the brave decision to re-apply and now loves where she is at. Half of the people I've talked to are basically saying that clinical psych is too cut-throat now to take chances at re-applying so I should accept - I can always post-doc at Temple, or collaborate in some other fashion in the future. The other half totally understands that grad school is a big decision and it's okay to want to be somewhere that you feel would make you happy and if I'm having that strong of a gut reaction about Fordham, it's okay to take some time to figure it out and apply again next year.
If I reapplied, I'd essentially be reapplying to the same schools, this time with publications under my belt and would probably retake GRE to make at least 160s. So, should I reapply? If so, WAMC that I will get interviewed at Temple again? For that matter, WAMC that I will get more interviews (aka interviews to places that rejected me this round)?
Stats:
UG: B.S. Psychology, 3.97 overall, 4.0 departmental, honors thesis, total of 1.5yrs undergrad research exp across 2 labs, clinical exp: "bereavement volunteer" at local hospice 1 year
Post-Bacc (2013 - present): supervised kids in psychiatric residential tx facility, paid RA on multi-dept R01-funded project in school of medicine doing clinical interviewing, psychophysio data collection, and lots of research: 6 posters (3 first author, 3 co author) at national conferences (ADAA, ISTSS, SOBP), co-presenter at 1 symposium for small private college's conference (nothing major, but i thought it would be good CV fodder), 1 in-progress first-author manuscript, another 1 in-progress poster for ISTSS 2016
Other details: amazing LOR providers (worked with me individually, not just "she was in my class, did x, y z., would be great for your school"), personal statement critiqued and approved by all 3 LOR writers, 2 post-docs who supervise me at my RA job, and 2 current grads students I worked with as undergrad.
Story thus far:
First time applying to research-oriented clinical psychology PhD programs. Applied to 11, interviewed at 2.5 (one was a phone pre-interview that did not turn into an official on-site interview), accepted into 1. Specifically, Temple University, my top choice, interviewed, waitlisted, and rejected me. I interviewed and was accepted into Fordham University's clinical psych phd program with full funding.
Dilemma:
I am in love with Temple's program. The POI's interests are pretty much a perfect match with mine, her grad students did nothing but rave about her as a mentor, overall grad students seemed really happy, the cameraderie is really great within cohorts, they just built a gorgeous, new community psychological services center 1 block from the psych building for practicum, Philadelphia is a beautiful city (walked around it a bit while I was there to get a feel for it) and surprisingly affordable on a grad stipend according all the students I talked to.
Fordham's program seemed average to me. The students were a little more stressed out, POI's interests are close but not 100% match, POI also doesn't have a lab, grants, or projects - you basically come to them tell them what you want and you build a project from scratch, they don't have a in-house clinic but NYC also has alot of great externship sites, NYC-living is obviously expensive and difficult on a grad stipend, and I have some concerns, though not overly large, about their Jesuit history.
I was devastated about Temple, and now I'm considering reapplying next year 1) for another shot at it, and 2) I'm not happy with Fordham and might go somewhere else even if it's not Temple. I just feel like I'd be really really happy at Temple, though, and I'm afraid if I go to Fordham, I'll just be doing it to get a degree and won't really enjoy the experience. It's kind of selfish when alot of people don't even get into a program at all, but I want to get a degree doing what I love and love the place/people I'm doing it at at/with. Essentially, i want to have my cake and eat it too. It's a purely irrational, emotion-based assumption, but I really want to be happy at my program for the next 5-6 years of my life, and I don't get that gut reaction with Fordham. I watched some of the grad students at my undergrad's clinical program deteriorate in health and spirit because they really didn't like the program, but didn't want to risk the uncertainties of re-applying. Another one had the exact same dilemma when she applied: had great stats, tons of research experience, was accepted into 1 school, and didn't love it, so she made the brave decision to re-apply and now loves where she is at. Half of the people I've talked to are basically saying that clinical psych is too cut-throat now to take chances at re-applying so I should accept - I can always post-doc at Temple, or collaborate in some other fashion in the future. The other half totally understands that grad school is a big decision and it's okay to want to be somewhere that you feel would make you happy and if I'm having that strong of a gut reaction about Fordham, it's okay to take some time to figure it out and apply again next year.
If I reapplied, I'd essentially be reapplying to the same schools, this time with publications under my belt and would probably retake GRE to make at least 160s. So, should I reapply? If so, WAMC that I will get interviewed at Temple again? For that matter, WAMC that I will get more interviews (aka interviews to places that rejected me this round)?
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
Well, they waitlisted you, so you were under some sort of consideration. So, there is a chance that you could get in next year. Lots of ifs though. What if that POI isn't taking students next year, what if the same thing happens, etc? Also, you could apply next year and get no offers. Definitely a risk either way. Fordham has good stats for internship match rate, so I wouldn't worry about that. I guess the question is, is it worth the risk to not match at all next year and have to take another year off and/or look at other career options?
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2016
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 3
Yeah, I assumed that we were all operating under a basic level of knowledge that Social Psychologists can't become clinicians...that's not the part I'm trying to figure out--obviously I know that if I go to a social program I'm closing the door on a clinical future. My question was of a more holistic/gestalt nature, not just "does it check all the boxes." This is perhaps not the venue to have a philosophical conversation about the various psychology subfields. Far too many prefactuals...not good for the forums, haha.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
It's not as much of a philosophical conversation as it is a pragmatic "what do you want to do in your career" conversation. That should probably take precedence over things like how far it is away from home, or if it is lavish or not.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 5,526
- Reaction score
- 6,553
A fully-funded APA program has selected you. That is cause for celebration. There will be good and bad in every program so I would avoid too much second guessing and just dive in. There are mediocre programs out there, and I don't think a funded PhD program with a good match rate is one of them.
edit to add: I didn't get my top choice either.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2016
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 2
How often does this happen to people who re-apply? I know a sizable minority of people who applied twice because they were interviewed first round without offers, and most get interviews again the second time although I don't know if it's to the same schools. Theoretically, it makes sense that if I got interviewed this time, I should be able to get interviews next time unless I severely f**k up and somehow my apps are worse off. But I know in practice, clinical psych is cut-throat enough that this might happen.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
No idea, I've never seen numbers on this. And, it would make sense that you would get an invite again, although that comes with caveats. If the POI cannot take students and you don't fit with another POI, it may cause them to not interview you. A couple other scenarios could play out as well. Hard to gauge.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2016
- Messages
- 6
- Reaction score
- 0
Hey, friends!
I'm currently an undergraduate student in psychology. My plan is to do private practice in a highly religious area, which means I want to specialize in anxiety-related disorders and my research interests include LGBT issues.
I'm having a bit of a dilemma, though. I like the idea of Psy.D. programs, because I much prefer the practical focus over research focus, but there are only five APA-accredited Psy.D. programs in counseling psychology. But at the same time, I really do want to ensure I am prepared for private practice for outpatient psychotherapy, and I don't know if a Psy.D. in clinical psych will be right for my career goals.
So here is what it boils down to. Do I apply for Ph.D. in counseling or Psy.D. in clinical? What are the differences?
Thanks!
I'm currently an undergraduate student in psychology. My plan is to do private practice in a highly religious area, which means I want to specialize in anxiety-related disorders and my research interests include LGBT issues.
I'm having a bit of a dilemma, though. I like the idea of Psy.D. programs, because I much prefer the practical focus over research focus, but there are only five APA-accredited Psy.D. programs in counseling psychology. But at the same time, I really do want to ensure I am prepared for private practice for outpatient psychotherapy, and I don't know if a Psy.D. in clinical psych will be right for my career goals.
So here is what it boils down to. Do I apply for Ph.D. in counseling or Psy.D. in clinical? What are the differences?
Thanks!
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2009
- Messages
- 1,504
- Reaction score
- 992
Recommending you turn down school 1. Don't want to work with a difficult (personality wise) mentor.
Social and clinical will be very different experiences. If you're game for clinical, I say wait out offer 3 and see what happens.
Social and clinical will be very different experiences. If you're game for clinical, I say wait out offer 3 and see what happens.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
Mostly, about $100k+ in debt. There are tons of Counseling PhD programs, that are fully funded, that mainly focus on practice, while also giving you a solid grounding in research so that you can properly evaluate treatments. The majority of PhD students, clinical and counseling, go on to primarily clinical careers, so that myth is not a problem if your career goals are clinical in nature (e.g., private practice). I'd focus on more of a match with your clinical and career options, and only looking at fully funded programs if I were in your shoes.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2013
- Messages
- 18
- Reaction score
- 4
I'm not sure I have a decision to make yet. Basically I'm holding an offer from a great program, great fit, etc. (Program 1), but I haven't heard back yet from another great program, great fit etc. (Program 2). I visited Program 1 at the very beginning of the process, and while I really liked it, I didn't have anything to compare it to yet. Also, when I didn't get an offer soon after, I assumed it wasn't likely and turned my attention completely to the next visits. I visited Program 2 at the very end of the process (almost exactly a month later), with all of the knowledge and experience and focus of having several other visits to compare it to, and I came away thinking it was my first choice of the schools I considered still "on the table" (again, without ever comparing to Program 1 because I assumed it was off the table). When I received the offer from Program 1 a week or two later, I was totally shocked, but gradually let myself remember what I liked about it. Now I feel ill-equipped to compare the 2 programs, but it could just be because they both would be great? In any case, I've been trying to figure out if I would actually rather go to Program 1, because if so I might as well withdraw from Program 2 and end this terrible saga of waiting. On the other hand, maybe it's too hard to compare an offer in hand with an imaginary offer, and I have to just wait and see if maybe receiving an offer from Program 2 brings reality and clarity? What would you do?
P.S. I know this is a good problem to have, it was hard-earned, unexpected, and a strange new kind of stress.
P.S. I know this is a good problem to have, it was hard-earned, unexpected, and a strange new kind of stress.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2016
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 3
I would have to politely disagree with you here--I think career choice is very much the opposite of a pragmatic, black/white decision. Where you live, with whom you work, what kinds of financial sacrifices you have to make are all intertwined within the question of "your career choice." To sprint through this decision process as if it can be isolated from all other life considerations is to devalue their importance. Call it just a case of me wanting to "have my cake and eat it, too" as the cliche goes, but I think it's foolish not to consider life outside the office. There are 168 hours in the week: we spend roughly 56 hours a week sleeping (assuming we sleep enough-ish); assuming I work 68 hours a week on career-related responsibilities, that still leaves 44 hours a week of unfilled time. Those 44 hours are a substantive part of my life and as important as the 68 hours I spend "in the office." Neglecting to envision what those 44 hours a week look like while at a given program is really failing to encapsulate a lot of the variance in program-fit. Then again, I'm also in the minority of people who don't believe in the false dichotomy of work-life balance, so maybe I'm just approaching this whole process based on idiosyncratic philosophical underpinnings. As I think my professional record indicates, I am an ambitious careerist just as much as the next person -- I just can't look at my career ambitions as independent from my personal values and aspirations.
After taking into account much of what my advisor thinks, as well as my entourage of social support--I'm going to wait it out and if School 3 offers I have to pounce on it (despite the fact that it's across the country). If School 3 doesn't offer, then I will have to soul-search even more because I'm still not sure. I'm tending to lean towards School 2 though.
Thanks for all the help internet compadres.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2016
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 3
Haha, yeah -- one school didn't change, one school went up, and another school dropped a bit. I'm not sure I value these rankings outside of their ability to group schools into approximate quartiles; just doesn't seem like a metric that's any more sensitive then that.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2016
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 0
Hi all, I hope this is the right thread. My ultimate goal is to become a board certified neuropsychologist--as such, I am starting to look into Clinical Psychology programs. I have a BA in Psychology with a 3.6 GPA. My GRE scores are 155/152/5.5 Verbal/Math/Writing, and I have 5+ years of experience working in a clinical setting (substance abuse centers). I have also worked for two research labs in college as well as a medical device research company currently. I am most interested in researching and ultimately using neuromodulation techniques such as biofeedback in a private practice setting. I think the Clinical Psychology programs I am currently looking at may be a bit out of my league: Yale, Drexel, and Northwestern specifically piqued my interest. From an outsider's perspective, are these programs within reach?
I also have a very unique opportunity right now to work for a prominent neuropsychologist in NYC and make some good money while gaining both clinical and research experience. However, I can only pursue this opportunity if I am in a graduate program. As such, I have been looking at neuroscience and social work MA/MS programs. Would it be more advisable to pursue an NYC master's program and apply for a PhD later on? Does anyone have advice for a program that would be within reach in NYC? Thank you!
I also have a very unique opportunity right now to work for a prominent neuropsychologist in NYC and make some good money while gaining both clinical and research experience. However, I can only pursue this opportunity if I am in a graduate program. As such, I have been looking at neuroscience and social work MA/MS programs. Would it be more advisable to pursue an NYC master's program and apply for a PhD later on? Does anyone have advice for a program that would be within reach in NYC? Thank you!
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2016
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
So, I have quite a bit of clinical experience and some research experience, but I know I need to beef up my research a bit before I apply to any of the programs I'm interested in, especially getting some posters and pubs. I may have an opportunity to switch jobs to a research coordinator/assistant position in a neurology lab at a medical school near me, but I'm uncertain of how much working there would contribute to resume/profile. I'm really interested in pursuing clinical neuropsychology research in grad school, so it seems like this neurology research position would be in a similar wheelhouse, but I'm still uncertain.
Would neurology research be helpful and applicable enough to neuropsychology to improve my resume or should I shoot for something more specifically psychology-related, if not neuropsychology-related? Would anything more specifically in clinical psychology, but not in neuropsychology, be inherently better than neurology?
Thanks!
Would neurology research be helpful and applicable enough to neuropsychology to improve my resume or should I shoot for something more specifically psychology-related, if not neuropsychology-related? Would anything more specifically in clinical psychology, but not in neuropsychology, be inherently better than neurology?
Thanks!
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
Without knowing the particulars of your other research exp, but I'd say the neurology research position would be beneficial.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2016
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 0
Hi all,
I'm trying to decide on a PhD program in psychology and I would love your input. Basically I'm trying to choose between a great professor and a great program. Any insight is appreciated!
School A: Has a fantastic mentor with the kind of personality that makes you feel really special. His research interests match mine 100% (right now anyway, I realize that may change later on). The individual attention is fantastic and I love it. I was a first choice offered admission and I feel wanted. Offered a fellowship (so best financially) and had a great feeling of fit. Already networked with a professor at a different university who is working with a student in this lab. I have taken a gap year after graduation and this would probably be an easier transition back into school. HOWEVER, there is no specialized curriculum for my specialization aside from one class and the school isn't as big in my field, but is more well known generally. Plus, the town is pretty small.
School B: Many publishing opportunities with specialized classes since the whole program is focused on my specialization. Great related coursework and could get more experience with different populations than School A. Better city plus more prestige in the field/very well known and good for long term networking. HOWEVER, you are accepted into the program not under one professor, but all of them, and therefore you have multiple mentors, which can make it seem like you may have to fight for attention at times, no hand holding here. You will still gravitate towards certain professors for research but don't have the same connection as with one single mentor. The financial package is standard but isn't as good (no fellowship), with loans seeming less optional.
I'm trying to decide on a PhD program in psychology and I would love your input. Basically I'm trying to choose between a great professor and a great program. Any insight is appreciated!
School A: Has a fantastic mentor with the kind of personality that makes you feel really special. His research interests match mine 100% (right now anyway, I realize that may change later on). The individual attention is fantastic and I love it. I was a first choice offered admission and I feel wanted. Offered a fellowship (so best financially) and had a great feeling of fit. Already networked with a professor at a different university who is working with a student in this lab. I have taken a gap year after graduation and this would probably be an easier transition back into school. HOWEVER, there is no specialized curriculum for my specialization aside from one class and the school isn't as big in my field, but is more well known generally. Plus, the town is pretty small.
School B: Many publishing opportunities with specialized classes since the whole program is focused on my specialization. Great related coursework and could get more experience with different populations than School A. Better city plus more prestige in the field/very well known and good for long term networking. HOWEVER, you are accepted into the program not under one professor, but all of them, and therefore you have multiple mentors, which can make it seem like you may have to fight for attention at times, no hand holding here. You will still gravitate towards certain professors for research but don't have the same connection as with one single mentor. The financial package is standard but isn't as good (no fellowship), with loans seeming less optional.
Last edited:
Honestly, It'll really come down to what you want and hope to do in the future. Personally I enjoy the flexibility of getting mentored by different professors/mentors because everyone is so different and therefore have different teaching styles. (This is just me though). I think you can definitely still have a tight connection with mentors you gravitate towards because you'll have chances to participate in studies, discuss research, etc. Clearly it won't be the same as in school A but then again their are more professors in your field.(WARNING THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!)I find it a bit limiting to simply work under one mentor for a particular amount of time although many programs I'm applying you are accepted under a mentor. But honestly it does look like they each have their pros and cons, but figure out what you wanna get out from your phd (What do you want to be in the long run and who will better help you) and adjust your decision towards that. Personally Id choose School B only because I am interested in forensic psychology and have found many schools that I plan on applying too aren't big on forensics but have one/two professors with similar interest to mine. But programs designed for my specialty makes it that much easier to really make the best of it in terms of internship sites, research, etc- And also your not taking a bunch of courses that aren't as interesting as ones in your specialty. You will definitely meet professors that you like more than others in School B- but thats natural and happens everywhere. If the financial difference is significant though - that will be a huge fall back though. But it would be the price to pay for a school in what you want to do. Also School A mentor might be nice and make you feel special but if his research interest and yours aren't a match- good luck working under him for 6 dreadful years.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2016
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 0
Honestly, It'll really come down to what you want and hope to do in the future. Personally I enjoy the flexibility of getting mentored by different professors/mentors because everyone is so different and therefore have different teaching styles. (This is just me though). I think you can definitely still have a tight connection with mentors you gravitate towards because you'll have chances to participate in studies, discuss research, etc. Clearly it won't be the same as in school A but then again their are more professors in your field.(WARNING THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!)I find it a bit limiting to simply work under one mentor for a particular amount of time although many programs I'm applying you are accepted under a mentor. But honestly it does look like they each have their pros and cons, but figure out what you wanna get out from your phd (What do you want to be in the long run and who will better help you) and adjust your decision towards that. Personally Id choose School B only because I am interested in forensic psychology and have found many schools that I plan on applying too aren't big on forensics but have one/two professors with similar interest to mine. But programs designed for my specialty makes it that much easier to really make the best of it in terms of internship sites, research, etc- And also your not taking a bunch of courses that aren't as interesting as ones in your specialty. You will definitely meet professors that you like more than others in School B- but thats natural and happens everywhere. If the financial difference is significant though - that will be a huge fall back though. But it would be the price to pay for a school in what you want to do. Also School A mentor might be nice and make you feel special but if his research interest and yours aren't a match- good luck working under him for 6 dreadful years.
Thanks for your response! I realize I should have mentioned that School A's mentor shares my research interests 100%, although I realizes this often changes with time and experience. I totally get what you mean when you say a specialized program makes everything easier. Plus interesting classes are a big plus! The financial difference isn't too significant, since both schools are in an area with low costs of living.
I feel like I know School B is better for me in the long run, but that professor at School A is so great (and better for the short term adjustment). I'd feel genuinely sad about turning him down, as opposed to School B which I feel like I'd have no problem turning down. Heart vs the mind, I suppose. Very contradictory to my personality type, but those good vibes at School A were so strong!
Oh okay then yeah theres nothing wrong in neccessarily going to school A for the mentor if you truly feel he/she is great & you both will work great together- Thats pretty hard to find. Any decision you make will be up to you. Just think it through. Goodluck in choosing and CONGRATS
Hi, I'm having trouble deciding between two PsyD programs and would like to gain some advice here. My core dilemma is essentially: prestige vs. fit. School A is highly ranked and lauded as one of the PsyD programs to go to, whereas at School B, I felt an instant connection with faculty and students on interview day, was offered good funding, and quite preferred the location it's in.
As someone whose goal is to eventually have my own private practice, providing assessment and therapy, what should I prioritize? How important is the prestige of a program when it comes to working towards such a goal?
Thanks in advance.
As someone whose goal is to eventually have my own private practice, providing assessment and therapy, what should I prioritize? How important is the prestige of a program when it comes to working towards such a goal?
Thanks in advance.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2006
- Messages
- 22,380
- Reaction score
- 4,315
Look at match rates, total debt, and how past students do in the job market.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 65
Hey,
I will start by saying that I have applied a few application cycles now and have applied to psyd programs every cycle. I ultimately picked a phd program this year but not due to any personal bias against psyd programs and think there are many good quality programs out there. That being said, I have been working in the field a few years and have noticed that some in the field have a bias against the psyd. I know this is just a personal example but I image it happens other places too? (I do see that your goal is a private practice though) Therefore, I would think prestige matters here, but is not everything and you need to be happy. School B might have a great reputation too.
I had an advisor who kept saying go with your gut during previous cycles. I drove myself crazy because I felt a real connection to a school that was financially out of my league. I thought not going was the wrong choice because I would be ignoring my gut. Finally I realized ...at the end of the day your gut is not enough and/or can be in conflict. The reality is debt, location, fit, and many other things matter (your thoughts and feelings are relevant!). Think about the pros and cons of each school. If possible visit again. Image how it would feel to accept each offer. One advice I can say is that I knew I had the right school when I could look at the cons and they did not bother me.
For example, imagine you have picked school B because of the connection. Do you feel like you have lost a great opportunity to attend the other psyd program? Or are you so happy with your pick you feel at peace?
Thank you for your response! It's helpful to hear your thoughts on the matter of prestige; I've certainly heard similar things about psyd vs phd. School B does seem to have a wonderful reputation within its location! But School A appears more recognized across all states, in part because it's a much older institution as well, I think.
On that note, I'm curious: how is the bias in the field against lesser known psyd programs? Is there any, and if so, how prevalent is it?
I have to say, I admire you for not choosing a school till it felt absolutely right, both emotionally and rationally. I think that takes so much courage! I also appreciate your advice of knowing you had the right school when the cons didn't bother you. I'll have a bit of mindful processing of accepting each offer and see where that takes me.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
- Messages
- 101
- Reaction score
- 65
It really does take so much processing and that is completely normal! So please remember that if it gets hard.
As for the psyd stigma...here are just a few examples of the stigma I have witnessed. I worked at a clinic that was hiring a new psychologist. Sadly, some on the hiring committee did not want to even consider a psyd. They felt that they wanted someone able to apply research to his or her clinical work as well as several other ignorant reasons that honestly to me showed a lack of understanding of what a psyd program means. They seem to think psyd means NO knowledge of research. In the academic world, I have come across phd clinical psychology professors that just appear to have an overall lower opinion of the psyd degree. So in my experience stigma does happen. I will mention that I live in an area not in close proximity to some of the well-known and really good psyd programs. One program is new and just got accredited so not respected YET. The other is an argosy campus that I myself have not researched but others tend to not view favorably. Sometimes I wonder if I lived in closer proximity to more psyd programs overall or even a well respected one, would I witness less stigma? Just a thought.
It is hard to help not knowing the two schools but it sounds like they are both good schools. I mean if you told me you got into Rutgers psyd...I would instantly recognize you attended a good program but there are others out there that are great too.
It really does take so much processing and that is completely normal! So please remember that if it gets hard.
As for the psyd stigma...here are just a few examples of the stigma I have witnessed. I worked at a clinic that was hiring a new psychologist. Sadly, some on the hiring committee did not want to even consider a psyd. They felt that they wanted someone able to apply research to his or her clinical work as well as several other ignorant reasons that honestly to me showed a lack of understanding of what a psyd program means. They seem to think psyd means NO knowledge of research. In the academic world, I have come across phd clinical psychology professors that just appear to have an overall lower opinion of the psyd degree. So in my experience stigma does happen. I will mention that I live in an area not in close proximity to some of the well-known and really good psyd programs. One program is new and just got accredited so not respected YET. The other is an argosy campus that I myself have not researched but others tend to not view favorably. Sometimes I wonder if I lived in closer proximity to more psyd programs overall or even a well respected one, would I witness less stigma? Just a thought.
It is hard to help not knowing the two schools but it sounds like they are both good schools. I mean if you told me you got into Rutgers psyd...I would instantly recognize you attended a good program but there are others out there that are great too.
Thank you, will remember that.
Hmm, yeah it'll certainly help more if I shared the two schools. I'll PM you for further conversation.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2016
- Messages
- 62
- Reaction score
- 4
help, please! I'm trying to narrow down my PsyD program choices before the April 15th deadline and I am really leaning towards Fuller Theological Seminary's PsyD program in Pasadena. Does anyone have any more information or qualified opinions on this school (besides cost, please! I've sorted that aspect)?
Specifically, I am hoping to get some more information about these topics:
APA match rates and placemen sites: what was the most recent match rate for Fuller PsyD students to APA-accredited internships (this year)?
Comprehensive exams: when do these exams take place, what is their format, and what preparation is offered/available?
Practicum experiences: Does anyone know specifics about what practicum expereinces are available for PsyD students besides the on campus FPFS clinic?
Course options: I have found a description of the courses offered Spring 2016 on Moodle, but I am hoping to find a more extensive listing and description of courses that satisfy each of Fuller's PsyD requirements.
Thank you so much for your help, any information about Fuller would be so appreciated.
Specifically, I am hoping to get some more information about these topics:
APA match rates and placemen sites: what was the most recent match rate for Fuller PsyD students to APA-accredited internships (this year)?
Comprehensive exams: when do these exams take place, what is their format, and what preparation is offered/available?
Practicum experiences: Does anyone know specifics about what practicum expereinces are available for PsyD students besides the on campus FPFS clinic?
Course options: I have found a description of the courses offered Spring 2016 on Moodle, but I am hoping to find a more extensive listing and description of courses that satisfy each of Fuller's PsyD requirements.
Thank you so much for your help, any information about Fuller would be so appreciated.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
APPIC keeps running stats about match rates. And, one year match rates are not informative out of context. I'd look at the past 15 years to look for trends.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2016
- Messages
- 62
- Reaction score
- 4
Thanks! Each APA accredited school actually has to publish their APA match rates so I have their previous rates, just not this current one since they are not obligated to publish that information for some time. Since I am debating spending my next 5 years there I want to make sure its upward trend is continuing in this year's match rates. Does APPIC publish APA match rates too, and any idea where I can find that information?
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2006
- Messages
- 22,380
- Reaction score
- 4,315
If you google school name + department + Ph.D. (Or Psy.D.) + educational outcomes, it should show up. It is required to be posted on each programs website, though some are harder to find.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2016
- Messages
- 62
- Reaction score
- 4
Than
http://www.fuller.edu/uploadedFiles/Siteroot/Academics/School_of_Theology(2)/CATS/c
‐
20
‐
templates%20(PsyD%20Fall%202014).pd Any idea how I can find this year's published?
ks, I found the 2006-2011 data, but not 2016's that way...it led me here:
http://www.fuller.edu/uploadedFiles/Siteroot/Academics/School_of_Theology(2)/CATS/c
‐
20
‐
templates%20(PsyD%20Fall%202014).pd Any idea how I can find this year's published?
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
Sites won't have the most recent data updated on their sites for a while, I'd say fall at the earliest for most.
Going to make this question short about Adelphi. Tuition is approximately 40k with around a 10k tuition remission and no stipend. Would you accept an offer to Adelphi if you were going to have to take out loans to pay remaining tuition? Is this program so great that it could possibly be worth that amount?
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2006
- Messages
- 22,380
- Reaction score
- 4,315
Way back when...maybe. Now..heck no. $120k minimum (+tuition increases, fees, etc), living expenses, and compounded interest...that's easily $200k.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 18,016
- Reaction score
- 23,756
Personally, I wouldn't take out more than 10k a year.
