Goro’s advice for DO applicants in the absence of grade replacement

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And that, my friends, is a good thing for all of us DO's:biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::biglove::bullcrap:


Maybe in like 5 years it will be a combined degree. "Hey im Dr. Goro and I'm an MDO." Lel.
what about the people that are borderline MD but only get DO...i say they get screwed in the end

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"get as much patient contact volunteering time in as possible."

I'm in my first year of undergrad and my main volunteering activity right now is at an long-term care residence. I visit a few of the residents each week and assist with feeding at mealtimes. Is this decent experience, or do I need something more in-depth? My GPA is currently ~3.6, do you think I'm on the right track?
 
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BUT if you have a 505+ MCAT and 3.4+ GPA WITH grade replacement (<3.0 without grade replacement), I feel like you can succeed at St. George or Ross Medical schools if you work your tail off.

It's hard to understand what makes you genuinely believe this when you aren't a medical student nor have you attended either of these programs. I'm sure you are offering your own opinion on this matter because your colleagues from RUSOM strongly advocate attending the school as a last measure. Hence, why you gravitate towards the words, "I feel like you can succeed" rather than saying, "They informed me that anything is possible..." - at St. George or Ross Medical Schools...

It's precisely because the amount of work you put into the school will not be proportional to the amount of effort the school will have invested in you. Students attend these schools with the mentality that they are going to work their tail off and beat the "reefer kids" in their class. These so called "reefer kids" can be counted on one hand, that is so that out of a class of 130 they don't actually exist. It is not a matter of how hard you are willing to work when you arrive at the school, it is about performance.

People immature enough to highlight human effort as the most important variable to performance are the ones who have a history of under performance in most of their classes. Performance is an elusive category that only becomes less illusory when we reach certain competencies. Then we discover niche areas that we never saw when basic effort wasn't applied as a basic ingredient to start off the entire process.

Everyone here is more than willing to call themselves "motivated individuals" who are willing to make sacrifices, however those sacrifices are inconsequential if you are investing it in a framework that doesn't value you as an individual. U.S. Medical students spend money and dedicate time to review with Goljan, Pathoma, Robbins, UWorld, First Aid, or Kaplan because they feel like they are a special investment and have the chance to have the opportunity of a life time. Ross University doesn't trust you to take the Step I examination without running through the NBME gauntlet.

Caribbean students have spent their money buying inflated real estate and food products at Ross University Island and for the most part are teaching themselves the curriculum the entire step of the way. I know that the island is Dominica. I am calling it Ross University Island because the journey can be an unpleasant ride with you being unsure of the outcome at the end of it. The high point likely being the fact that the ride misleadingly ends back in Miami (Miramar) Florida before kicking off another series of fun rotations in the U.S.

This brings me to the importance of having a solid infrastructure going into medical school. Most undergraduate students don't have an adequate infrastructure going into medical school which is why the analogy of drinking water from a fire hose is accurate and doesn't do the analogy justice. RUSOM "banks" on these students and then proceeds to systematically weed them out with a variety of oppressors I'm sure the students never saw coming.

If you are going to make a huge investment please do not give that money to RUSOM or DeVry. @gonnif Wrote a post in pre-medical regarding the volatile nature of receiving rejections during the winter months and paints a very real emotional portrait of the conditions that informed students come under when they decide to apply to these schools. You will still see some people like {the argus} be a strong advocate for Caribbean outcomes.

I believe that my entire experience made me skeptical of how effective we are in educating prospective students on this site. I think that there is too much of a naive and premature attitude regarding giving advice through a "n=1 and that n is me". There are more inquisitive approaches that we simply do not utilize either through lack of knowledge, lack of trying, or from a lack of insight. I feel like in order to truly dissuade students during these cold winter months, we need to consistently give advice of a higher premium than "I know like 100 general practitioners who became doctors through RUSOM... apply today!" because students are aware of the scruples of such a school but still are naive enough to believe that it will serve their purposes as a mean to an end. Until you have walked to Golgotha, you have been living in Paradise.
 
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1. Merger will most likely help Caribbean students get residencies in the future.
2. You should not tell someone that they shouldn't follow their dreams and change career paths if they fully believe in their capabilities.
I know many people (friends and family) who recently got residencies in primary care who went to Ross/St. George.
-Will it be harder? yes
-Will you need higher STEP scores? Probably
But Caribbean schools are only bad for people who have very poor stats and think that going to medical school is magically going to make them doctors.

BUT if you have a 505+ MCAT and 3.4+ GPA WITH grade replacement (<3.0 without grade replacement), I feel like you can succeed at St. George or Ross Medical schools if you work your tail off.
There is no evidence to suggest your #1 claim. None. What we can do is speculate and infer and from what I gather overall DOs will benefit slightly to a lot while Carib grads may only benefit slightly to none.
 
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I think that you're on the right track.

"get as much patient contact volunteering time in as possible."

I'm in my first year of undergrad and my main volunteering activity right now is at an long-term care residence. I visit a few of the residents each week and assist with feeding at mealtimes. Is this decent experience, or do I need something more in-depth? My GPA is currently ~3.6, do you think I'm on the right track?
 
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Would you suggest retaking a Bio 2 class when I'm already taking Ochem 2 w/ lab, TAing, taking Bio lab, a philosophy class, research, and Biochem 2? I got a C in it a while ago (several years). My other option is to use the extra time to build my other EC's. This is my senior year, and I plan to take another year after to build my clinical and EC's, while self studying for the MCAT and siting in on CC classes.
 
Would you suggest retaking a Bio 2 class when I'm already taking Ochem 2 w/ lab, TAing, taking Bio lab, a philosophy class, research, and Biochem 2? I got a C in it a while ago (several years). My other option is to use the extra time to build my other EC's. This is my senior year, and I plan to take another year after to build my clinical and EC's, while self studying for the MCAT and siting in on CC classes.

Nah man. Just kill the classes you're already in. Research and TAing can take up a surprising amount of time. With grade replacement out of the question, if you got an A in this bio class, it would equate to 2x the number of credits as a B (so if the class is 4 credits, it would be 8 total credits of B in the eyes of AACOMAS). This wouldn't really improve your GPA that much.

The best thing you can do is get As in o chem 2 and bio chem 2. That will bode very well for you and show that the C you got all those years ago isn't the applicant you are now.

Good luck!
 
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Thanks for the advice! I've got a 3.9 the last 3 semesters with several neuroscience credits. If I get all A's next semester I would be close to a 3.4 so that's the goal.

The best thing you can do is get As in o chem 2 and bio chem 2. That will bode very well for you and show that the C you got all those years ago isn't the applicant you are now.
Yeah, the only B I got was in Biochem 1 last semester so I hope that doesn't hurt too much, considering I'm going for upward trend.
 
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what about the people that are borderline MD but only get DO...i say they get screwed in the end

How so boss. Same pay rate, same responsibilities, same job description. Where are they getting metaphorically screwed, other than the ego stroke?



Edit: obvio didn't read all posts lol. Goro already beat me to it.
 
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To goro, just wondering how many apps your school or other schools are getting these days. Is it feasible to review every applicants application to find those people who retook classes or will a lot of these people be screened out by filters.


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To goro, just wondering how many apps your school or other schools are getting these days. Is it feasible to review every applicants application to find those people who retook classes or will a lot of these people be screened out by filters.


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Anyone that tells you that you won't be filtered out below 2.8-3.0 is lying to you. It doesn't matter what sob story or redemption you have without meeting the minimum. According to the report, they expect a GPA drop of 0.03, so they won't be bending over backward for anyone.
 
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How so boss. Same pay rate, same responsibilities, same job description. Where are they getting metaphorically screwed, other than the ego stroke?



Edit: obvio didn't read all posts lol. Goro already beat me to it.
specialty choices, hiring practices, research opportunities, fellowship opportunities, political barrier
 
Don't know; the wily old Admissions Dean hasn't told us in awhile, since we have been on break for Xmas.

My school doesn't prescreen. Keep in mind that of of right now, grade replacement is factored IN by AACOMAS, and will be until the end of this cycle. We don't discriminate against people who retake classes either.

To goro, just wondering how many apps your school or other schools are getting these days. Is it feasible to review every applicants application to find those people who retook classes or will a lot of these people be screened out by filters.


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Don't know; the wily old Admissions Dean hasn't told us in awhile, since we have been on break for Xmas.

My school doesn't prescreen. Keep in mind that of of right now, grade replacement is factored IN by AACOMAS, and will be until the end of this cycle. We don't discriminate against people who retake classes either.

For the past several months now I have been putting numerous clues together to determine which school you teach at! I'm so close to cracking the code, I can taste it!
 
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For the past several months now I have been putting numerous clues together to determine which school you teach at! I'm so close to cracking the code, I can taste it!

You seriously haven't figured that out yet? dude where have you been lol.













































































































































LUCOM.
 
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Would you say that there is a decent amount of schools that have the same practices as yours @Goro (no prescreen) based on your knowledge? With this AACOMAS change I am going to need no prescreens to even have a shot cause of my sGPA being a 2.85 with no retakes. Thank you in advance for any info.
 
The DeVry Education Group (NYSE Symbol DV) is up nearly 50% in the past year closing yesterday at $31.70 a share.

I know you weren't trying to make a pitch-- but i'm sold! I need to put some money on this-- maybe the uptick of desperate applicants will yield profitable results for someone
 
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Based upon what SDNers have posted here, I'd say yes.

Would you say that there is a decent amount of schools that have the same practices as yours @Goro (no prescreen) based on your knowledge? With this AACOMAS change I am going to need no prescreens to even have a shot cause of my sGPA being a 2.85 with no retakes. Thank you in advance for any info.
 
You don't. The only time I have ever seen it was a DO who went back and got his MD from some random Caribbean school.

Actually it's also the other way around. Student goes Caribbean, can't get a residency they want, goes to DO school. The dean at my school said you'd be floored by how many applicants are Caribbean graduates. Many more are attempting to transfer because they're disenfranchised by their Caribbean program.


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We have not heard from the other side. With grade replacements, a good percentage of the applicants make their academic performance appear stronger at first glance than mine. I have no retakes on my transcript. Some will replace every lower grade and it appears as if they out performed me academically when they have not.
I feel for those that did poorly on the first round of college as I did, but I never did poorly as a premed.
Doing poor in a full-time course load vs retaking 1 or 2 courses at time with leisure and getting As is not the same indicator for how well suited you are for medical school.
Devil's advocate.
 
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We have not heard from the other side. With grade replacements, a good percentage of the applicants make their academic performance appear stronger at first glance than mine. I have no retakes on my transcript. Some will replace every lower grade and it appears as if they out performed me academically when they have not.
I feel for those that did poorly on the first round of college as I did, but I never did poorly as a premed.
Doing poor in a full-time course load vs retaking 1 or 2 courses at time with leisure and getting As is not the same indicator for how well suited you are for medical school.
Devil's advocate.

In the end, all that matters is that you know the material for the MCAT with pre-med pre-requisites.. If you did it right on your first try, congratulations. Good for you.

IMO there is a "threshold of intelligence" that a lot of people probably surpass when it comes to being able to ace pre-med classes... the only other variable at play is the amount of time you dedicate putting in the work to get the A (greater time required for some, less for others.) The problem you suggest in the system can be corrected for in some ways by looking at an MCAT score.. can this student simply cram and memorize? Or can they also problem solve?

I'm sorry that you feel it is unfair to give students a second chance, but just because you did it right on your first try doesn't, by any means, mean you are smarter or better than them in any way, shape, or form.
 
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I'm sorry that you feel it is unfair to give students a second chance, but just because you did it right on your first try doesn't, by any means, mean you are smarter or better than them in any way, shape, or form.
I never said any of that.
 
Would it be worth it to apply to a DO SMP like Nova before the grade replacement policy is in effect? My cGPA would be 3.5, sGPA 3.4. With the new policies my cGPA would be 3.2 and sGPA 2.9. Nova’s deadline for the Fall 2017 program is April 1st. I take my MCAT March 31 (lol). The website says they won’t accept MCAT scores from test dates after April 1st, so technically I should be ok. They begin reviewing applications in March.
 
Would it be worth it to apply to a DO SMP like Nova before the grade replacement policy is in effect? My cGPA would be 3.5, sGPA 3.4. With the new policies my cGPA would be 3.2 and sGPA 2.9. Nova’s deadline for the Fall 2017 program is April 1st. I take my MCAT March 31 (lol). The website says they won’t accept MCAT scores from test dates after April 1st, so technically I should be ok. They begin reviewing applications in March.

If NOVA is your dream school (it's one of mine, place is awesome) then I would apply to that SMP. It's what, like 60$ for an application? Definitely a good plan B to have. I can't imagine you won't get in with your adjusted stats.

You're not in terrible shape for DO admission without grade replacement though just purely based on your stats in this post. See what your MCAT score is and then I'd reccomend still considering applying broadly this cycle. Don't lose hope! Check out the DO underdogs thread. A lot of those people had similar GPAs to your "true" GPA with grade replacement in their favor. If you have good ECs, clinical hours, and a DO lor or two, you still have a shot.

Either way, I would apply to NOVAs SMP asap.

Good luck!
 
If NOVA is your dream school (it's one of mine, place is awesome) then I would apply to that SMP. It's what, like 60$ for an application? Definitely a good plan B to have. I can't imagine you won't get in with your adjusted stats.

You're not in terrible shape for DO admission without grade replacement though just purely based on your stats in this post. See what your MCAT score is and then I'd reccomend still considering applying broadly this cycle. Don't lose hope! Check out the DO underdogs thread. A lot of those people had similar GPAs to your "true" GPA with grade replacement in their favor. If you have good ECs, clinical hours, and a DO lor or two, you still have a shot.

Either way, I would apply to NOVAs SMP asap.

Good luck!

thanks! I will go for it!
 
If NOVA is your dream school (it's one of mine, place is awesome) then I would apply to that SMP. It's what, like 60$ for an application? Definitely a good plan B to have. I can't imagine you won't get in with your adjusted stats.

You're not in terrible shape for DO admission without grade replacement though just purely based on your stats in this post. See what your MCAT score is and then I'd reccomend still considering applying broadly this cycle. Don't lose hope! Check out the DO underdogs thread. A lot of those people had similar GPAs to your "true" GPA with grade replacement in their favor. If you have good ECs, clinical hours, and a DO lor or two, you still have a shot.

Either way, I would apply to NOVAs SMP asap.

Good luck!
this gives me hope, but I dont want it to be just wishful thinking. I will keep working hard on my MCAT for now.
 
I sincerely feel for the pre-meds who were relying on the repeat feature of the AACOMAS app as it helped me back when I applied.

Just keep trying to ace your classes and definitely aim for ATLEAST a 3.4 sGPA and cGPA.

DO programs are becoming competitive now obviously and AACOMAS is catching up to it.

Also.... if you guys aren't full bore on being a physician but want to do medicine and ur app isn't that great right now......

I would REALLY suggest you guys look into midlevel areas... CRNAs..... NPs... PAs.... these guys' training are legit... shorter... and liability isn't there...

they are gaining a lot of leeway.

Just my advice. Good luck y'all.
 
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This change in the grade replacement policy will weed out the people that are half-hearted from the people that are very hungry to get into medical school. I hope I will have plenty of comrades to call upon on this long journey.
 
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I sincerely feel for the pre-meds who were relying on the repeat feature of the AACOMAS app as it helped me back when I applied.

Just keep trying to ace your classes and definitely aim for ATLEAST a 3.4 sGPA and cGPA.

DO programs are becoming competitive now obviously and AACOMAS is catching up to it.

Also.... if you guys aren't full bore on being a physician but want to do medicine and ur app isn't that great right now......

I would REALLY suggest you guys look into midlevel areas... CRNAs..... NPs... PAs.... these guys' training are legit... shorter... and liability isn't there...

they are gaining a lot of leeway.

Just my advice. Good luck y'all.
I like your blue name. How do I get?
 
Stop mentioning me in threads for no reason. This is the 3rd time in the last 24 hours.
Is FCMike your alt? You two do sure do a lot like of "liking" each others posts.

Please keep the boards civil and professional. :)
 
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Is FCMike your alt? You two do sure do a lot like of "liking" each others posts.

Please keep the boards civil and professional. :)

^ded

@AnatomyGrey12 and I have a love-hate relationship. Kind of like Insulin and Glucagon.

There was a reason for mentioning you anatomicalgreg because I was talking about you and I didn't want to be rude on this professional message board.

Thanks,

JayBeezFiveO
 
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I'm sitting at a 3.24 GPA and 2.84 sGPA. I've calculated that an additional ~ 72 science credit hours with 4.0 grade could boost this up to 3.47 GPA and 3.43 sGPA.

When you say 3.5+ for DO, do you mean my overall GPA should be sitting in that range or that is just the GPA that my DIY post-bac should be?

Also, what type of success does this method have? I know a lot of people mention post-bac around here, but I can't quite ascertain whether this is a long shot method.

d) Thus, take 1-2 years of a DIY post-bac, or a 1 year SMP, preferably one given at a medical school. Do well in either of these programs. A 3.5+ should suffice for a DO school, while 3.7+ will be needed for an MD school.
 
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I'm sitting at a 3.24 GPA and 2.84 sGPA. I've calculated that an additional ~ 72 science credit hours with 4.0 grade could boost this up to 3.47 GPA and 3.43 sGPA.

When you say 3.5+ for DO, do you mean my overall GPA should be sitting in that range or that is just the GPA that my DIY post-bac should be?

Also, what type of success does this method have? I know a lot of people mention post-bac around here, but I can't quite ascertain whether this is a long shot method.
He meant have a post Bach gpa of 3.5. You will be golden for DO with a 3.4 and decent MCAT.
 
If I'm following this right, a hypothetical 4.0 post-bac with a 3.4 overall gpa would be competitive for MD?

He meant have a post Bach gpa of 3.5. You will be golden for DO with a 3.4 and decent MCAT.
 
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