Giving up on my dream of surgery

[libertyyne]

I don't know if this makes a difference but there are some Nsg that work less than primary care docs.but on average work 5 hours per week more.

ENT seems like a good compromise with reasonable hours compared to pc and or time.

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[ProfMD]

I don't know if this makes a difference but there are some Nsg that work less than primary care docs.but on average work 5 hours per week more.

ENT seems like a good compromise with reasonable hours compared to pc and or time.

That looks like interesting data - can you post the reference?

 

[libertyyne]

That looks like interesting data - can you post the reference?

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1105820#figure-table-tab

 

[ProfMD]

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1105820#figure-table-tab

Sweet - thanks.

 

[libertyyne]

I am extrapolating that is roughly 57 hours per week for NSG compared to 54 for internal med and 52 for primary care. One limitation is that hours on call were not included.

 

[Frogger27]

Interesting that Urology has higher hours worked than Ortho when anecdotally everyone says that Urology universally has a better lifestyle. Not sure if only call hours would make up for this difference

 

[Mad Jack]

Interesting that Urology has higher hours worked than Ortho when anecdotally everyone says that Urology universally has a better lifestyle. Not sure if only call hours would make up for this difference

The chart is many years old and fields have changed a great deal, so who knows what it looks like today.

 

[ProfMD]

The chart is many years old and fields have changed a great deal, so who knows what it looks like today.

It's only 6 years old (data obviously a bit older than that). I don't know about others, but my hours haven't changed much in 6 years.

 

[libertyyne]

The chart is many years old and fields have changed a great deal, so who knows what it looks like today.

I would like to see some data on how medical fields and hours / training requirements have changed over that time. Medicine moves at a glacial pace and this data is old but not that old to be dismissed completely.

 

[Frogger27]

It's only 6 years old (data obviously a bit older than that). I don't know about others, but my hours haven't changed much in 6 years.

As a physician, what are your thoughts on that data? Does it look pretty accurate?

 

[Mad Jack]

I would like to see some data on how medical fields and hours / training requirements have changed over that time. Medicine moves at a glacial pace and this data is old but not that old to be dismissed completely.

My problem with the data is that some of the specialties had extremely small sample sizes, in addition to it being 13 years old. Some of the sample sizes were likely barely over the 20 minimum (look at the margin of error for Nsurg, for instance). Medscape might be closer to reality- their sample sizes tend to be bigger, they track part time workers, they have hours broken down by task, etc.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

You have a family + a ton of hobbies. That alone eliminated surgery for me. It's great but there's not room for much else

Plus like a 30 percent attrition rate in residency...big gamble overall. But honestly, what isnt a gamble in medicine these days?

 

[libertyyne]

Plus like a 30 percent attrition rate in residency...big gamble overall. But honestly, what isnt a gamble in medicine these days?

NSG has a 30% attrition rate ?Or all surgery?

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

NSG has a 30% attrition rate ?Or all surgery?

General surg.

Like 25-30 percent, if Im not mistaken.

Its tough.

 

[libertyyne]

General surg.

Like 25-30 percent, if Im not mistaken.

Its tough.

Where is that number from?

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Where is that number from?

http://stmichaelshospitalresearch.c...-among-residents-in-general-surgery-programs/

 

[libertyyne]

http://stmichaelshospitalresearch.c...-among-residents-in-general-surgery-programs/

Thank you. Isn't first year prelim year anyway? It seems like some left for greener pastures in plastics and others left for other surgical programs.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Thank you. Isn't first year prelim year anyway? It seems like some left for greener pastures in plastics and others left for other surgical programs.

First year is internship/prelim.

Its a field with alot of flux, for sure. You gotta love it.

 

[Mr Medschool Money]

I have always wanted to be a surgeon. I loved my surgery rotation but the hours really wore on my family. I have a wife and a toddler. They are FAR more important than any job to me. I also have a ton of hobbies that really help with my sanity. My spouse 100% supports me no matter what specialty I pick, but if I pick a surgical field I feel it will be detrimental to both myself and my family. I don't want my daughter to finally get some quality time with me when she's 10.

I am now down to the point where I have to pick a specialty. I want to pick a surgical field but I feel guilty for doing so, selfish, maybe even disappointed... I have never been this conflicted in my life. I am thinking about picking a field with procedures with a better lifestyle - maybe anesthesia or EM.

Has anybody been through something similar?

For what it is worth, I went through the same process. I was set on CT surgery for the past 5 years. Then decided during my surgery rotation that my favorite part of the day was going home to see my wife and baby. I would encourage you to be really honest with yourself. If you cannot imagine doing anything else, then I think you owe it to yourself to pursue your dream. As my PGY-5 Gen Surg friend tells all med students who rotate with him- if you can find anything else besides general surgery that you could see yourself doing and enjoying, then do that, but if you can't then do it and go all in.

EDIT: Ditto what was said EM vs surgery. Even in med school, the toll of constantly switching which hours your body needs to be awake and constantly being "on" made my EM rotation more exhausting mentally than gen surg.

I personally have decided on anesthesiology. It is a good mix of procedures, being in the OR (the happy place), not getting stuck at the hospital after the surgery is over, and getting time with family. Many will say the sky is falling with anesthesiology. What I like about it is there are a lot of practice opportunities coming off of it that are so completely different, aka. I can push off the decision for what I want my "life" to look like until I have to think about applying to fellowship. I know many will disagree but that is where I struck the balance. Blessings on your decision making process.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

For what it is worth, I went through the same process. I was set on CT surgery for the past 5 years. Then decided during my surgery rotation that my favorite part of the day was going home to see my wife and baby. I would encourage you to be really honest with yourself. If you cannot imagine doing anything else, then I think you owe it to yourself to pursue your dream. As my PGY-5 Gen Surg friend tells all med students who rotate with him- if you can find anything else besides general surgery that you could see yourself doing and enjoying, then do that, but if you can't then do it and go all in.

EDIT: Ditto what was said EM vs surgery. Even in med school, the toll of constantly switching which hours your body needs to be awake and constantly being "on" made my EM rotation more exhausting mentally than gen surg.

I personally have decided on anesthesiology. It is a good mix of procedures, being in the OR (the happy place), not getting stuck at the hospital after the surgery is over, and getting time with family. Many will say the sky is falling with anesthesiology. What I like about it is there are a lot of practice opportunities coming off of it that are so completely different, aka. I can push off the decision for what I want my "life" to look like until I have to think about applying to fellowship. I know many will disagree but that is where I struck the balance. Blessings on your decision making process.

You just never really adjust, no matter how hard you try. It just ain't natural.

EM has a relatively high burn out rate, which would be in keeping with the above.

 

[anotherdecision]

For what it is worth, I went through the same process. I was set on CT surgery for the past 5 years. Then decided during my surgery rotation that my favorite part of the day was going home to see my wife and baby. I would encourage you to be really honest with yourself. If you cannot imagine doing anything else, then I think you owe it to yourself to pursue your dream. As my PGY-5 Gen Surg friend tells all med students who rotate with him- if you can find anything else besides general surgery that you could see yourself doing and enjoying, then do that, but if you can't then do it and go all in.

EDIT: Ditto what was said EM vs surgery. Even in med school, the toll of constantly switching which hours your body needs to be awake and constantly being "on" made my EM rotation more exhausting mentally than gen surg.

I personally have decided on anesthesiology. It is a good mix of procedures, being in the OR (the happy place), not getting stuck at the hospital after the surgery is over, and getting time with family. Many will say the sky is falling with anesthesiology. What I like about it is there are a lot of practice opportunities coming off of it that are so completely different, aka. I can push off the decision for what I want my "life" to look like until I have to think about applying to fellowship. I know many will disagree but that is where I struck the balance. Blessings on your decision making process.

One thing that has been difficult for me is it being very difficult to put myself in the shoes of the attending or even resident. When I stand there retracting for 10 hours, I do want to just GTFO and go home. When they let me run the bovie (like twice lol) I was in heaven. It is difficult to get a good feel for any specialty as a student but particularly surgery because we can't actually do surgery yet, but we have pretty close to the same awful hours.

I'm shadowing anesthesia, EM, IR in the next few weeks to see if those stick. Thank you.

You just never really adjust, no matter how hard you try. It just ain't natural.

EM has a relatively high burn out rate, which would be in keeping with the above.

I was an ED scribe for a couple of years. I certainly did not have the stress of being a physician but I did see and live the lifestyle of those docs as realistically as I can without actually being one. I definitely appreciate why they work less hours as the stress and non-stop action can really wear on you. Thank you.

 

[Stagg737]

Another thing to think about is this: you can always go from neurosurgery to another specialty if you and your family decide that you want more time at home. You cannot go from another specialty to neurosurgery.

This may be one of the most under-discussed points on the subject and something to keep in mind when deciding between 2 fields when only 1 is competitive. It's something I hadn't really thought about before, but an interesting point of thought.

 

[ProfMD]

This may be one of the most under-discussed points on the subject and something to keep in mind when deciding between 2 fields when only 1 is competitive. It's something I hadn't really thought about before, but an interesting point of thought.

It is important to consider this for competitiveness and funding.

Resident funding is based on the duration of your first residency. So easier to go from long to short than the other way.

 

[libertyyne]

It is important to consider this for competitiveness and funding.

Resident funding is based on the duration of your first residency. So easier to go from long to short than the other way.

Very confused about this. What does it mean?

 

[WedgeDawg]

I don't know if this makes a difference but there are some Nsg that work less than primary care docs.but on average work 5 hours per week more.

ENT seems like a good compromise with reasonable hours compared to pc and or time.

Just wanted to point out that this graph has a wrong number for neurosurgery. The number is always the median of the confidence interval and is miscalculated for NSGY. It should really be 688 which places it at #3, not 270 (which is below the bottom of it's CI).

 

[libertyyne]

Just wanted to point out that this graph has a wrong number for neurosurgery. The number is always the median of the confidence interval and is miscalculated for NSGY. It should really be 688 which places it at #3, not 270 (which is below the bottom of it's CI).

(958+(-418))/2=270

 

[NTInmytime]

I'd rather do 40 hours a week of something I hate and keep the ones I love than 60 hours a week doing something I love that costs me those I care about. Everyone has priorities.

as someone who currently does 60-80hr weeks of something i hate(career outside medicine), I still get to keep the ones I love. I dont make every single school event or family gathering, but I am there enough to be a good parent and husband. of course it helps that my wife is a rockstar and handles a lot of running the house.
Having had parents who were not great examples for their children, its 100X more important to me that my Son and Daughter see me grinding through med school / residency and sacrificing for a calling that gives me fulfillment and security for my family than it is for me to show up to every single family/school event.
I'm a bit older than most prospective/current students, and I can tell you from life experience that its not as black and white as it seems. you can be a great parent and work crazy hours. Your children are going to remember your actions, and they will understand the sacrifice and and hard work when they mature and become adults. Most importantly that understanding is what is going to drive them to do great things in their lives as well.
just my two cents.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Very confused about this. What does it mean?

If you match general surgery, you will have 5 years of residency funding allotted to you total, regardless of if you leave surgery or finish the residency. If you match IM, you will only have 3 years of residency funding allotted to you. Thus, if you switch from IM --> surgery, the program has to make up those additional years of funding. Switching the other way around (surgery --> IM) doesn't carry this issue.

 

[Mad Jack]

as someone who currently does 60-80hr weeks of something i hate(career outside medicine), I still get to keep the ones I love. I dont make every single school event or family gathering, but I am there enough to be a good parent and husband. of course it helps that my wife is a rockstar and handles a lot of running the house.
Having had parents who were not great examples for their children, its 100X more important to me that my Son and Daughter see me grinding through med school / residency and sacrificing for a calling that gives me fulfillment and security for my family than it is for me to show up to every single family/school event.
I'm a bit older than most prospective/current students, and I can tell you from life experience that its not as black and white as it seems. you can be a great parent and work crazy hours. Your children are going to remember your actions, and they will understand the sacrifice and and hard work when they mature and become adults. Most importantly that understanding is what is going to drive them to do great things in their lives as well.
just my two cents.

I dunno, I'm old as well. And I've learned that life is too short to blow it working your ass off. We aren't on this earth very long, and the time I've got I'd prefer to spend with those I care about rather than doing any work, however noble. I've seen too many people die young that were promising they'd make time for their kids someday, and all their kids got was memories of them not being around enough then being put in the ground. My loved ones are my purpose, not my career. If you get some deep fulfillment out of work that's fine and all I guess, but it doesn't really do it for me. It's something I enjoy being good at, but not something I enjoy more than my time away from it, not by a long shot.

 

[libertyyne]

If you match general surgery, you will have 5 years of residency funding allotted to you total, regardless of if you leave surgery or finish the residency. If you match IM, you will only have 3 years of residency funding allotted to you. Thus, if you switch from IM --> surgery, the program has to make up those additional years of funding. Switching the other way around (surgery --> IM) doesn't carry this issue.

I thought the government paid for that.

 

[ProfMD]

I thought the government paid for that.

The government only allocates money for the number of years of your first residency. This funding follows you if you switch programs.

So, if you start in IM (3 years) and finish your first year then you have 2 years of funding left. If you then decide to switch to general surgery (5 years), your new program will get the 2 years of funding you have left. The program will need to pay for the additional 3 years.

 

[libertyyne]

The government only allocates money for the number of years of your first residency. This funding follows you if you switch programs.

So, if you start in IM (3 years) and finish your first year then you have 2 years of funding left. If you then decide to switch to general surgery (5 years), your new program will get the 2 years of funding you have left. The program will need to pay for the additional 3 years.

Thank you. Thats a weird way to allocate money. But the government does weird stuff.

 

[frosted2]

I dunno, I'm old as well. And I've learned that life is too short to blow it working your ass off. We aren't on this earth very long, and the time I've got I'd prefer to spend with those I care about rather than doing any work, however noble. I've seen too many people die young that were promising they'd make time for their kids someday, and all their kids got was memories of them not being around enough then being put in the ground. My loved ones are my purpose, not my career. If you get some deep fulfillment out of work that's fine and all I guess, but it doesn't really do it for me. It's something I enjoy being good at, but not something I enjoy more than my time away from it, not by a long shot.

At this point in my life, this is so damn refreshing to read. Thanks @Mad Jack .

 

[WedgeDawg]

(958+(-418))/2=270

Oh I see - you're saying the 418 number is wrong and should be -418 (which is what the CI implies. I'll have to check the actual paper again to see if it should be negative or positive 418.

 

[libertyyne]

I don't know if this makes a difference but there are some Nsg that work less than primary care docs.but on average work 5 hours per week more.

ENT seems like a good compromise with reasonable hours compared to pc and or time.

@neusu Could you please chime in on the hours for NSG listed. They seem low compared to what the mythology surrounding Neurosurgery would state .

 

[libertyyne]

delete.

 

[SurgeDO]

@neusu Could you please chime in on the hours for NSG listed. They seem low compared to what the mythology surrounding Neurosurgery would state would state.

the majority of neurosurgery residency graduates are entering into private practice year after year. in private practice, you are usually doing around 80% spine (usually elective) and 20% brain. a lot of elective spine is often done on an outpatient basis.

from my observations, the Cushing-esque neurosurgeon is dying for several reasons. like i already mentioned, spine surgery has been a big reason for this. spine cases involving any hardware implantation were once almost lost to orthopedics (or stolen from orthopedics depending on who you ask). over the last decade or so, however, neurosurgery residencies have incorporated spinal instrumentation into their curriculums producing surgeons capable of handling all aspects of spinal surgery above and below the dura. the amount of spine cases that exist out there are limitless. if i recall correctly, the laminectomy is the most common surgical procedure in the united states. it is entirely feasible to build your whole practice around elective spine. in a sense, spine surgery has given the modern day neurosurgeon an out for a more lifestyle friendly career.

endovascular procedures have also made neurosurgery more lifestyle friendly. a lot of the aneurysms that neurosurgeons used to salvate over are now coiled in the endovascular suite. a relatively recent paper has produced pretty damning evidence to coil the majority of aneurysms although a lot of traditional neurosurgeons still make compelling arguments to clip certain aneurysms. irregardless, endovascular is the future for a lot of the cerebrovascular diseases (including AVMs) that were once handled in the OR. an aneurysm in the endovascular suite takes half the time to coil than it does to clip. plus the post-operative care is a lot less complicated and usually less time intensive.

radonc has become a lot more involved in taking care of certain brain tumors.

automobiles have become much safer. statewide seatbelt laws have become more prevalanet. more states are requiring helmets on motorcycles/bikes.

i would never call neurosurgery a "lifestyle specialty", but i certainly think it has made strides over the last several decades (and a lot over the last several years). the data posted above may slightly under-report the average number of hours worked by neurosurgeons based off my anecdotal observations.

it's an amazing field. tons of variety and many different ways to set up your practice in the future.

 

[libertyyne]

the majority of neurosurgery residency graduates are entering into private practice year after year. in private practice, you are usually doing around 80% spine (usually elective) and 20% brain. a lot of elective spine is often done on an outpatient basis.

from my observations, the Cushing-esque neurosurgeon is dying for several reasons. like i already mentioned, spine surgery has been a big reason for this. spine cases involving any hardware implantation were once almost lost to orthopedics (or stolen from orthopedics depending on who you ask). over the last decade or so, however, neurosurgery residencies have incorporated spinal instrumentation into their curriculums producing surgeons capable of handling all aspects of spinal surgery above and below the dura. the amount of spine cases that exist out there are limitless. if i recall correctly, the laminectomy is the most common surgical procedure in the united states. it is entirely feasible to build your whole practice around elective spine. in a sense, spine surgery has given the modern day neurosurgeon an out for a more lifestyle friendly career.

endovascular procedures have also made neurosurgery more lifestyle friendly. a lot of the aneurysms that neurosurgeons used to salvate over are now coiled in the endovascular suite. a relatively recent paper has produced pretty damning evidence to coil the majority of aneurysms although a lot of traditional neurosurgeons still make compelling arguments to clip certain aneurysms. irregardless, endovascular is the future for a lot of the cerebrovascular diseases (including AVMs) that were once handled in the OR. an aneurysm in the endovascular suite takes half the time to coil than it does to clip. plus the post-operative care is a lot less complicated and usually less time intensive.

radonc has become a lot more involved in taking care of certain brain tumors.

automobiles have become much safer. statewide seatbelt laws have become more prevalanet. more states are requiring helmets on motorcycles/bikes.

i would never call neurosurgery a "lifestyle specialty", but i certainly think it has made strides over the last several decades (and a lot over the last several years). the data posted above may slightly under-report the average number of hours worked by neurosurgeons based off my anecdotal observations.

it's an amazing field. tons of variety and many different ways to set up your practice in the future.

I was under the impression the jury is still in deliberation for a majority of outcomes surrounding some of the high volume elective spine procedures like kyphoplasty, vertebroplasty, laminectomy. Are you telling me Neurosurgeons are becoming the interventional cardiologists of the surgery world?

 

[NTInmytime]

I dunno, I'm old as well. And I've learned that life is too short to blow it working your ass off. We aren't on this earth very long, and the time I've got I'd prefer to spend with those I care about rather than doing any work, however noble. I've seen too many people die young that were promising they'd make time for their kids someday, and all their kids got was memories of them not being around enough then being put in the ground. My loved ones are my purpose, not my career. If you get some deep fulfillment out of work that's fine and all I guess, but it doesn't really do it for me. It's something I enjoy being good at, but not something I enjoy more than my time away from it, not by a long shot.

and this is equally valid. Everyone has their own formula for happiness and success.
For me, as a parent, my happiness became second seat to my children's well being. I'm their father. Its my job to make sure they have a roof over their head and food on the table as well as making sure they become successful, independent, functioning adults. In our case I still get plenty of time with them, we still take vacations, I'm still there when they need me, and I still make dinner several nights a week and drive them to school a couple times a week. I could get through med school/residency and pick a field thats a 9-5 if I wanted, but it does not make my life any better or set any better example to my kids to take the easy road.
again, just my opinion, not an indictment of Mad Jack or anyone else.

 

[SurgeDO]

I was under the impression the jury is still in deliberation for a majority of outcomes surrounding some of the high volume elective spine procedures like kyphoplasty, vertebroplasty, laminectomy. Are you telling me Neurosurgeons are becoming the interventional cardiologists of the surgery world?

I was never interested enough in kyphoplasty/vertebroplasty to read the research on it that you are referring to. Based off my own observations kyphoplasty seems to be an amazing procedure if done in the patients it is indicated for. I've probably seen close to 100+ kyphoplasties over the past 4 years, and the overwhelming majority of patients were satisfied with their surgical outcomes.

The majority of spinal surgery controversy lies in fusions vs. decompressions...but whole textbooks can be written about this.

Neurosurgery is nothing like interventional cardiology. There are still plenty of huge back wacks and nice open beautiful cranies. Poke your head into a trauma crani if you ever get a chance. However, like all surgical fields, there have been efforts to become more minimally invasive.

 

[libertyyne]

I was never interested enough in kyphoplasty/vertebroplasty to read the research on it that you are referring to. Based off my own observations kyphoplasty seems to be an amazing procedure if done in the patients it is indicated for. I've probably seen close to 100+ kyphoplasties over the past 4 years, and the overwhelming majority of patients were satisfied with their surgical outcomes.

The majority of spinal surgery controversy lies in fusions vs. decompressions...but whole textbooks can be written about this.

Neurosurgery is nothing like interventional cardiology. There are still plenty of huge back wacks and nice open beautiful cranies. Poke your head into a trauma crani if you ever get a chance. However, like all surgical fields, there have been efforts to become more minimally invasive.

I meant over-utilization of procedures like Interventional Cards. Because they tend to cath you if you have a pulse, and will put a stent in while they are in there. Thanks you for your thoughtful replies in this thread, it is good to get experiential information straight from the source.

 

[axiomofchoice]

Another NSGY resident here.

When I submitted my rank list >5 years ago one thing was certain in my mind - should I not match, I was going to leave medicine all together ( I came from a lucrative career that I could have returned to). I simply had no interest in anything else. This sentiment has not changed - Working alongside every other medical specialty - I couldn't stomach doing anything else (ER shifts, endless rounding...). Neurosurgery is definitely a passion. Furthermore, consider the expendability of your chosen field. Things are changing - and people want a slice of your pie.

Lastly as far as the "procedural specialties" go. There is no comparison. If you are a surgeon - you want to operate.

As far as the lifestyle: one poster above touched on the program specific nature. The experience varies dramatically. Choose your program carefully. Working a lot of hours does not translate into good training. In my mind the most important factors are: resident independence (above all) coupled with case volume and diversity. Then there are bonuses: my residency has an army of PAs that do all scut work: discharge notes, rounding on patients that no longer need decision making (regular floor patients). This translates into excellent quality of life during 4 of 7 years (chief year and junior years are obviously brutal).

Post-residency: It is what you make of it. I know some 30 hour/week neurosurgeons. They don't do interesting cases but their careers don't interfere with their 3pm daily Tee time. Or you can be a workaholic doing the most exciting type of surgery medicine has to offer.

Do what you love - don't be distracted by perceptions.

PS: I have children and have plenty of family time.

 

[failedatlife]

Sad thread indeed. Likely someone with a high Step score and qualifications to excel in surgery. The only people who should be kept out of surgical subspecialties are the idiots like myself who cannot even manage to get into the 70%+ on Step 1 which it takes to be a good surgeon. .... Well, and people like myself who can't even get dates with hotties, nevermind marry one.

 

[Mr Roboto]

Sad thread indeed. Likely someone with a high Step score and qualifications to excel in surgery. The only people who should be kept out of surgical subspecialties are the idiots like myself who cannot even manage to get into the 70%+ on Step 1 which it takes to be a good surgeon. .... Well, and people like myself who can't even get dates with hotties, nevermind marry one.

You're the only SDN poster that I follow. Thank you for your service.

 

[W19]

Sad thread indeed. Likely someone with a high Step score and qualifications to excel in surgery. The only people who should be kept out of surgical subspecialties are the idiots like myself who cannot even manage to get into the 70%+ on Step 1 which it takes to be a good surgeon. .... Well, and people like myself who can't even get dates with hotties, nevermind marry one.

Don't feel too bad! You aren't the only one going thru tough time in medicine. I finally quit medicine today because my attending berated me today in front of everyone because of an innocent mistake I made. F*** it! I can't take that s*** anymore.

 

[libertyyne]

Don't feel too bad! You aren't the only one going thru tough time in medicine. I finally quit medicine today because my attending berates me today in front of everyone because of an innocent mistake I made. F*** it! I can't take that s*** anymore.

You... Quit Medical school because your attending was berating you on a rotation?

 

[itscomplicateddd]

I always wanted neurosurgery. It would mean my daughter would be 9-10 when I finish residency. Most people tell to consider ENT or something like that as the lifestyle can be better, but the ENT residents here still work some long hours. Granted it's 5-6 years compared to 7-8 in neurosurg. I also feel I am too far behind to realistically match into ENT. I have no connections or research in it. I'm not really interested in ortho or uro.

I've heard "If you can do anything else other than surgery, do that!" I've also heard I should never give up on my dreams.

How do I make the decision? Sorry guys, I'm just really conflicted.

Your post caught my eye. Does this mean that you had a child during medical school? How did you handle the finances of that? Did you give birth or your partner?

I am starting school this Fall and my partner mentioned that maybe we should have a child during medical school. It kind of sounds impossible but if you did it, I want to hear how!

To be honest, I rationalized that this may be a bad idea but I was told by a resident that waiting for perfect timing to marry or to have children doesn't usually work and that letting it happen when it happens is the best thing to do... Do you think this is valid?

 

[W19]

You... Quit Medical school because your attending was berating you on a rotation?

Yep... He did it in front of the nurses' station. He could have pulled me into a corner and talked to me about it.

 

[Anicetus]

Sad thread indeed. Likely someone with a high Step score and qualifications to excel in surgery. The only people who should be kept out of surgical subspecialties are the idiots like myself who cannot even manage to get into the 70%+ on Step 1 which it takes to be a good surgeon. .... Well, and people like myself who can't even get dates with hotties, nevermind marry one.

You should congratulate every surgeon you meet on your surgery rotation for rocking the step 1 as you shake their hand.

When they ask you to close and suture in the OR ask them if they're sure if they should let a <230 step 1 score even near scissors.

 

[Psai]

Don't feel too bad! You aren't the only one going thru tough time in medicine. I finally quit medicine today because my attending berated me today in front of everyone because of an innocent mistake I made. F*** it! I can't take that s*** anymore.