Finishing residency...job search

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Lola713

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For those of you that have or just finished going through the job search process, I am wondering if you have any advice. Am entering my 3rd year and am in a east coast program. i really want to get a job in a southern CA hospital. has anyone else been in a similar situation? Any thoughts on using headhunters? I found a website called The Doctor Job that assists in finding positions...

Any advice would be great!

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There is another site that I have been looking at, edphysician.com that has a ton of jobs on it. You have to watch though, it also has NP/PA jobs and some hospitalist jobs.

(and I do not hold any interests in the website, just putting it here for reference to others on this post!)
 
Hi, good question!

TheDoctorjob.com is a great service, I can highly recommend them, not because I have used them, but because I know exactly what they do and it is the best method of finding a job. They take your CV, improve it, write a great cover letter and then print out numerous letters to all physicians of your specialty in the area where you want to work. The results are great, you will find 2-5 times as many jobs as the best recruiter could find - for one simple reason - recruiters charge 20,000 to place you, and if you just send in your CV, you come without any recruitment fee.

Forget about recruiters. They have only the "left-over jobs". Since they only get paid after they place you, they try to nudge you into jobs they have, away from the jobs you want.

You can find more of what I have written about this in great detail in my commercial-free advice blog "A Physician on Job search and Practice. If you search in older posts you will find exactly how to do the mailing yourself. You can buy addresses of doctors and hospital departments from marketing list providers for about 50-75 cents per address, one company that I recommend is InfoUSA.com. the website is self-explanatory. PLay around with it a bit and you will see. Once you have bought a list, you get it by email, download it onto your computer. Then you Mail-merge the list with your cover letter on your computer, with Word. Ask a computer savvy friend about it. It is not that difficult.
 
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I disagree with the above advice strenuously. While OB/GYN might need such services, EM jobs are plentiful, no services are needed. Here is how I proceeded (as did almost all of my residency classmates).

1. Decide what what you want to do and where (i.e., community versus academic, what area of the country).

2. Make sure your CV is angled toward those things (if you are trying to go academic, it should list every talk you have ever given ever given, for community it should focus on your skill set - specifically things such as ultrasound, moonlighting, unusual features of your residency, etc).

3. Pick 10 places that you thinks you would like to work, regardless of whether or not they are advertising a position.

4. Send CV and a well crafted letter of introduction - both electronically and via snail mail to the chairmen at each of those institutions.

The feedback received from that should dictate further actions.

If you are going for a community job at a specific site that you know is hurting for staffing, they might extend an offer to you as a second year (I have mixed feeling about accepting these offers), OR if you are planning to stay where you are training and they generally extend offers to PGY2s, then you should start talking to those places now.

Otherwise, for a general search starting in August or September of PGY3 at the earliest should work.


A couple words of advice - most residents don't keep their CVs updated. Get it done NOW. Many larger academic institutions publish templates or guidelines. If your program does - use it. Otherwise, find a few faculty and borrow theirs (or PM me and I'll send you one).

The "cover letter" for EM should be a letter of introduction (as opposed to the traditional cover letters the groups like doctorjobs.com will help you author). The formula is simple. First paragraph gives your name, training level and a quick factoid - then proceeds to "kiss ass". Tell the reader why you want to work at their hospital. Second paragraph is a quick blurb about both you and your residency program. End with a statement of how you would reach some goal at their institution and close the letter. That's it.

Have at least 4-5 of your faculty proof the CV and letter, minimum.

Using this "formula", I have a couple of friends that didn't get good responses off of their initially contacts (which is why I wouldn't make more than 10 contacts initially). One of them called where he applied and asked if there was a problem in his application. That was a good move on his part. I don't remember what it was, but the chair instantly told him the problem, he fixed it, and sent the revised CV and letter out to a different group of hospitals. He got interviews from all of those.

I anticipated a much weaker response than I got - the other reason for only applying to 10 off the bat at most. Everywhere I contacted offered me an interview, regardless of having a position available. When it came to scheduling all of these, I had to turn some down (there just wasn't enough time during residency).

At the end of the day, ANY resource (other than free forums like SDN) costs money somewhere. They will charge either you or the hiring institution. The fact is that jobs are too plentiful in EM to take up that cost. It is a waste.

As for a service that "prints out numerous letters to all physicians of your specialty in the area where you want to work", in a field as small as EM, do you really want your CV "out there" as unsolicited junkmail to people other than chairpersons in specific areas of your job hunt?

- H
 
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This is great advice. As a second year who doesn't want to wait until the last moments, any other advice for those of us searching and starting "ahead" of time.

Especially looking about how to contact groups in cities where you are not located (contact the hospital, the ED, web search etc).

Thanks!
 
There's plenty of good advice above in FoughtFyr's post. One thing which is not to be underestimated is the power of networking. I'm not much of a rolodex kind of guy, but most residencies keep a database of where their graduates have wound up. If you want to work in a particular location, fire off a friendly email to one of the grads who's wound up there. A word to their boss will at least get you a closer look out of a large pool of applicants. Even if their hospital/group isn't hiring, they might know someone across town whose group is.

You can fish around on the internet as much as you want, but these days any numbskull can put up a flashy website with a little cash at their disposal. Talking to somebody who works in a particular area will give you a multitude of info about which hospitals have a reputation for sucking, and which places are an attractive place to work.
 
I agree with FoughtFyr. I would add that calling groups directly will both expedite this process and likely put you in direct contact with the medical director who considers hiring. I knew where I wanted to work and compiled a list of every emergency department in the area. At the end of my second year of residency I began calling them. Literally - I called the ED directly, spoke with the charge nurse and the EP who was working that day, and was given direct contact information to the medical director. One time I even spoke directly with the director and faxed him my CV directly to the ED. Every place I called asked for my CV and everyone invited me to interview. I ended up taking a job with a great private democratic group who was not advertising. In EM, you are in the driver's seat. Knowing where you want to work is the hardest part of this field...

P.S. - if you take this approach, research how (or if) the group is recruiting for new positions. Often times groups pay big money for headhunter/staffing agencies and will consider an independent hire to be a real bargain. This can be a good negotiating position for bonuses and/or first year salary...
 
My advice has to be modified for Emergency Medicine and Foughtfyr is certainly right. In ObGyn it works very well, because any physician cold be your next employer. In ERs you will be employed by a hospital of department and therefore the number of docs than may hire you is a lot smaller. nevertheless, use direcet mail. That was my point. You should send letters to all chairpersons in all ERs in the areas where you want to work. Maybe include the vice chairs too.
And networking is absolutely necessary and very helpful.
There is a great book out there that helps with writing CV and cover letter - "The Ultimate Guide to Finding the Right Job After Residency", Amazon $22.
 
I would like to bump this thread now that it's later in the year...I just wanted to get an overall concensus on how everyone was doing with job searches...now that some of us are finishing residency, where is everyone looking? I have noticed some areas there are tons of job openings, while others, such as southern California, have almost none. I have been trying to look into CA with not as much luck...has anyone had some experiences? What is the time frame that they normally like to hire new people for this summer? Any advice/tips/info would be great!
 
I agree with the above post about networking. from what i've seen from graduating residents who want to leave the area where they trained the biggest thing is just meeting people from your target region. jobs in EM are plentiful, even if you don't find your perfect job straight out of residency odds are you WILL find one, even in tight markets. the only place i've actually heard of anyone having trouble is San Diego and i don't know specifics.

Although i'm not personally looking for a job i am pretty close to some other people's job searches (including my spouse) and one thing that was really helpful was to go to the ACEP conference in October and meet a bunch of groups at the job fair.

i also agree that the recruiters should be avoided, unless you just want to do locum tenens work somewhere. the recruiters will call incessantly and mostly only have crappy jobs. you should definitely try out other options before going there. i mean, those guys are so clueless that they have been calling me quite a lot, and i haven't even started residency yet!
 
I'm finishing this year and I have a job. I started looking a couple of months ago. I wanted a pretty specific geographic area (I didn't want to move) so my options were self-limited.

Everyone else in my class has a job. I hear we're a bit unusual though.

Take care,
Jeff
 
Network, network, network! I have a job as well, and a huge pile of medicaid/medicare paperwork sitting on my desk to sign. I did most of my networking at a statewide ACEP meeting, and some more at national ACEP (And met Jeff). I wanted to stay in the state, and knew sort of what I was looking for. It's a relatively small community, and everyone knows everyone else, so former residents and my attendings were a huge aid.

Danielle
 
Networking or not, there are jobs available in every state. The type of job varies by state of course. In places like Texas it's easy to get a job in a big city like Houston or Dallas because there are so many unfilled openings. Southern California on the other hand has jobs, you just can't be picky about where exactly you want to work.
 
does anyone have any experience with southern CA job market, ie when they decide to hire, when they interview, when they make decisions etc. It seems from my experience so far and from talking to medical directors, etc. it is a much later process in the year than some other geographical locations. Any thoughts??
 
does anyone have any experience with southern CA job market, ie when they decide to hire, when they interview, when they make decisions etc. It seems from my experience so far and from talking to medical directors, etc. it is a much later process in the year than some other geographical locations. Any thoughts??

The earlier you apply the better. Most of the jobs interview in November-February to hire for July 1. If you want to go to a certain geographic area, start looking as early as possible. Send out "cold call" letters to the medical directors at hospitals you are interested in even if they are not advertising open positions. I found my position by sending out a letter to a group that wasn't advertising.
 
The earlier you apply the better. Most of the jobs interview in November-February to hire for July 1. If you want to go to a certain geographic area, start looking as early as possible. Send out "cold call" letters to the medical directors at hospitals you are interested in even if they are not advertising open positions. I found my position by sending out a letter to a group that wasn't advertising.

Sorry to bump such an old thread. It has some great advice. I have some questions about the timeline for applying/searching for jobs out of residency.

I am a second year resident, just over half-way done with residency. Time flies! Anyway, my goal is to get a job in the community setting in my home state (not geographically close to where I am doing residency). The area is apparently considered one of the more competitive markets in the country, which gives me a little bit of anxiety. Had a few friends with similar desire to return there who graduated ahead of me and went elsewhere due to lack of opportunity. I have a few contacts and leads with a few groups there that I plan on using to feel out the landscape and hopefully get interviews, but I am unsure as to exactly when I am supposed to start sending out the feelers. I have gotten mixed opinions from attendings at my residency, ranging from "send a CV as soon as possible" to "you're training at XYZ residency, you could probably apply wherever you want, whenever you want and get a job." Ok. One issue I see with applying too early is that my CV is relatively dry at this point.

I don't want to be that guy who is overly eager, weirding out medical directors with my solicitations well before I've even graduated, but I also don't want to be that guy who misses out on the job because I waited to long to get my name in the mix. My currently plan of action is to wait until July/August (beginning of 3rd year) to start putting myself out there, but I was wondering if anyone had an opinion about the timeline that would set me up best for success without coming across as over-eager. What worked for everyone else?
 
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Networking or not, there are jobs available in every state. The type of job varies by state of course. In places like Texas it's easy to get a job in a big city like Houston or Dallas because there are so many unfilled openings. Southern California on the other hand has jobs, you just can't be picky about where exactly you want to work.

How much does the alumni network come into play for a residency program when it comes to job placement? I am currently trying to decide between two programs for my residency rank list. One of them has a limited alumni network, especially in the south, whereas the other, being a much older program, has an extensive alumni network, especially concentrated in the southern states where I'm interested in working later after residency. Any thoughts on whether Alumni network matters for getting some of the best jobs in a region? Or how much it helps training from within a region where one wants to eventually practice?
 
Sorry to bump such an old thread. It has some great advice. I have some questions about the timeline for applying/searching for jobs out of residency.

I am a second year resident, just over half-way done with residency. Time flies! Anyway, my goal is to get a job in the community setting in my home state (not geographically close to where I am doing residency). The area is apparently considered one of the more competitive markets in the country, which gives me a little bit of anxiety. Had a few friends with similar desire to return there who graduated ahead of me and went elsewhere due to lack of opportunity. I have a few contacts and leads with a few groups there that I plan on using to feel out the landscape and hopefully get interviews, but I am unsure as to exactly when I am supposed to start sending out the feelers. I have gotten mixed opinions from attendings at my residency, ranging from "send a CV as soon as possible" to "you're training at XYZ residency, you could probably apply wherever you want, whenever you want and get a job." Ok. One issue I see with applying too early is that my CV is relatively dry at this point.

I don't want to be that guy who is overly eager, weirding out medical directors with my solicitations well before I've even graduated, but I also don't want to be that guy who misses out on the job because I waited to long to get my name in the mix. My currently plan of action is to wait until July/August (beginning of 3rd year) to start putting myself out there, but I was wondering if anyone had an opinion about the timeline that would set me up best for success without coming across as over-eager. What worked for everyone else?
I graduated last June and I applied starting around Sept of my 3rd year (3 yr prog). Had a job beginning of Dec.

I would say, look at how long it takes to get licensed in some states. Luckily it only took me 3 months to get a state license, Texas is around 6-9 from what I understand. Seem to remember Cali was a long time. This would effect your timeline.

I went somewhere my residency doesn't have a lot of alumni. It wasn't hard to find a job. Find the area you want, the job you want. Compile a list or EDs that fit your criteria and get a list of contact info. So when it comes time to apply, you can just refer to this list.

The other confusing thing is that some places you have to go through their internal recruiters. What people above are talking about are large headhunting agencies. Totally different. It just most places hiring process these days.
 
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For California, it would be worthwhile to just call CEP and they will set you up with a bunch of interviews in the area you are considering.

Certainly consider other places as well but CEP is definitely worth considering.
 
Very quick bump for musings on a saturday morning while drinking a mimosa. If you are interested in academic jobs what is the expected timeline for applying for those jobs. There are numerous areas where alumni from my program haven't traditionally gone and from what I can tell a lot of academic places don't actively have published recruitment pages. I am finishing up first year and I know for community jobs usually 8-10 months prior to July 1st is usually suitable, but what about for assistant professor positions? Certainly networking would be nice but if we are interested in exploring areas where we don't have a ton of connections whats the preferred way of reaching out. My plan so far was just sending my proof read resume to the various chairs with my resume, expressing interest in research, and possibly being interested in nocturnist clinical spots. I certainly don't want to pester the busy chairs but I have to assume that getting academic spots traditionally takes a little more planning than in the community (but maybe I'm wrong).

Thanks
 
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Most aren't going to talk to you until 3rd year. If you look at the back of SAEM's journal, there's a bunch of academic jobs posted.
If you're leaving the state, start working on that new state licence as soon as 3rd year starts. You don't want to delay working because of a license.
 
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