Fellowship 9-11 GI Bill not in CA?!?

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davefromcamp

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Anyone that can help I will be SOOO happy.

I'm in fellowship here in CA and the VA approval office is taking a hard-line at approving any fellowship program because of their interpretation of the rules. The rules state any residency that is approved by the ACGME is eligible, but since this is called a fellowship they won't approve and I am not getting my benefits. I have talked to the VA approving agency and they say it needs to be changed at the federal level, another office states it needs to be changed at the state level.

My argument is 1) Fellowship is a residency in the eyes of the ACGME and it is just a different term used. 2) other states approve fellowships for the 9-11 GI bill benefits why can't California?

They don't buy it. I need help getting this to work for me and future Californians

Has anyone ran up against this? What have you done to get your fellowship approved? From my understanding CA used to approve it until they changed their interpretation of the rules.

I have contacted the CA state legislature and they are interested in helping out because if affects and VET that wants to do training in their state but they do not make new laws until the first of the year...

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Anyone that can help I will be SOOO happy.

I'm in fellowship here in CA and the VA approval office is taking a hard-line at approving any fellowship program because of their interpretation of the rules. The rules state any residency that is approved by the ACGME is eligible, but since this is called a fellowship they won't approve and I am not getting my benefits. I have talked to the VA approving agency and they say it needs to be changed at the federal level, another office states it needs to be changed at the state level.

My argument is 1) Fellowship is a residency in the eyes of the ACGME and it is just a different term used. 2) other states approve fellowships for the 9-11 GI bill benefits why can't California?

They don't buy it. I need help getting this to work for me and future Californians

Has anyone ran up against this? What have you done to get your fellowship approved? From my understanding CA used to approve it until they changed their interpretation of the rules.

I have contacted the CA state legislature and they are interested in helping out because if affects and VET that wants to do training in their state but they do not make new laws until the first of the year...

Is the fellowship ACGME certified (ie do you take a board)? If not that may be the issue and has nothing to do with the state of California. My wife did a pain fellowship (anesthesia based). She was Air Force and it was civilian sponsored. The VA approved it even if it was called a "fellowship" because it was ACGME and she has a board exam.
 
Using my Gi Bill for fellowship right now. Know of other people who have also. What are you referring to as the "VA Approval Office"? I took the paperwork provided by eBenefits to the admissions/registra or some office like that and gave it to the VA representative at my school. They just needed to send that and proof of enrollment into the high ups I think. If its at your school's level, they are possibly misinformed. If it is at the VA benefits level, they are probably talking to the wrong person.
 
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I'm using GI Bill for fellowship right now (not in California). Before starting, I looked up my university hospital on WEAMS, found the certifying official for the school, and called her up to get my specific program approved (previously, all undergrad degrees, most graduate degrees, and a half-dozen residencies had approval). After convincing her that fellowships were authorized for GI Bill benefits, she submitted the requisite paperwork to the VA, and got all fellowships there approved. Then, they just submitted my proof of enrollment with my certificate of eligibility from the VA, and the money started coming in.

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I'm using GI Bill for fellowship right now (not in California). Before starting, I looked up my university hospital on WEAMS, found the certifying official for the school, and called her up to get my specific program approved (previously, all undergrad degrees, most graduate degrees, and a half-dozen residencies had approval). After convincing her that fellowships were authorized for GI Bill benefits, she submitted the requisite paperwork to the VA, and got all fellowships there approved. Then, they just submitted my proof of enrollment with my certificate of eligibility from the VA, and the money started coming in.

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I'm waiting for my residency program to get approved. How long did it take? I notified the certifying official in May and I'm still pending payment. :(
 
It took a long time. I started the process in September, and was notified that it was approved in April. Several months of this, though, were spent convincing the certifying official that it was possible, and that she needed to do it

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I'm waiting for my residency program to get approved. How long did it take? I notified the certifying official in May and I'm still pending payment. :(
My fellowship submitted everything in march. My program got a request for all the same paperwork in May. They resubmitted and we got approved last week. The institution had approval for the EM program a few years ago so the process was a little quicker I think. I was told I would start getting g my payments around 14 days after the certifying official puts me in the system.
Also told I'd get back paid to my 01Jul start date.
So we'll see
 
My fellowship submitted everything in march. My program got a request for all the same paperwork in May. They resubmitted and we got approved last week. The institution had approval for the EM program a few years ago so the process was a little quicker I think. I was told I would start getting g my payments around 14 days after the certifying official puts me in the system.
Also told I'd get back paid to my 01Jul start date.
So we'll see

Thanks. Yeah, your back pay should go through. I've gotten it before from the VA without issues when I did Voc Rehab and during my one year of using GI bill.
 
Does the BAH usually pay out at the start or end of the month? It was midway through July that I received notice from the VA saying that all was well, and I'd start getting paid. They gave me my book money right after that, and I received a BAH payment at the end of July. I'm curious if that was my July or August payment, as I remember a previous person saying that the VA wouldn't give them BAH I'm July, as their final payment from the military was in July.

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Going to tack on to this thread (which I should have searched first )...
Is the post 9/11 or MGIB better for pursuing fellowship training? And what are the rates?
 
Does the BAH usually pay out at the start or end of the month? It was midway through July that I received notice from the VA saying that all was well, and I'd start getting paid. They gave me my book money right after that, and I received a BAH payment at the end of July. I'm curious if that was my July or August payment, as I remember a previous person saying that the VA wouldn't give them BAH I'm July, as their final payment from the military was in July.

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It pays at the end of the month.
 
Good to know. So I will get paid for each month, yay.

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I got my first VA MHA at the end of August for a July start. Never got MHA for July because of the BAH/MHA "double dipping" thing, even though my separation date was 1 July so it was all of about $50 in BAH. If you got MHA and any amount of BAH for July, then it was probably a mistake, although it would take a minor miracle for them to figure that out.
 
I got my first VA MHA at the end of August for a July start. Never got MHA for July because of the BAH/MHA "double dipping" thing, even though my separation date was 1 July so it was all of about $50 in BAH. If you got MHA and any amount of BAH for July, then it was probably a mistake, although it would take a minor miracle for them to figure that out.
My separation date was 30 June, so maybe that's it


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I got my first VA MHA at the end of August for a July start. Never got MHA for July because of the BAH/MHA "double dipping" thing, even though my separation date was 1 July so it was all of about $50 in BAH. If you got MHA and any amount of BAH for July, then it was probably a mistake, although it would take a minor miracle for them to figure that out.
Glad my separation was 30Jun.
 
My separation date was 30 June, so maybe that's it


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How'd you manage that? My ADSO ended on June 30th, but I was told that I couldn't separate until July 1st. That extra 24 hours cost me about $1300 in MHA - just another kick in the teeth on the way out of the door.
 
How'd you manage that? My ADSO ended on June 30th, but I was told that I couldn't separate until July 1st. That extra 24 hours cost me about $1300 in MHA - just another kick in the teeth on the way out of the door.
Nobody told me that. My separation date was set for when my ADSO ended, and I didn't think twice about it.

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Yes my Program is ACGME approved. California law does not allow the VA approval to approve Fellowship programs (for whatever reason). I spoke with my VA benefits officer here at UC Davis and she sent me up the chain to hear it from the horse's mouth. I am so sad because I was expecting this $$ to help as I went back to fellowship. I have tried to convince the VA approval office that Fellows are the same as residents under the ACGME guidelines but they aren't buying that.
 
Is the fellowship ACGME certified (ie do you take a board)? If not that may be the issue and has nothing to do with the state of California. My wife did a pain fellowship (anesthesia based). She was Air Force and it was civilian sponsored. The VA approved it even if it was called a "fellowship" because it was ACGME and she has a board exam.
Did she do this in CA? Yes I am a pain fellow as well and getting the stiff arm from UC Davis VA and the VA approval office.
 
I'm also starting a fellowship at UC Davis July 1, 2018 and was told by the UC Davis Veteran's Education benefits office that CSAAVE (California State Approving Agency for Veterans Education) started denying monthly housing allowance benefits under post 9/11 GI bill after 2014. The certifying official at UC Davis said she was sent this regulation, and that the first part (a) is what the fellowship falls under. My fellowship is non-ACGME (no breast imaging fellowships are ACGME as far as I know), but I am checking to see if there has been delegation of accrediting authority by ACGME. Further, if the benefits are not approved underneath part (a), it seems fellowships could even fall into the last part (g) as on-the-job training (reduced rate of monthly housing but at least something). I am escalating through several levels, but if anyone has any experience to add, it would be much appreciated. It seems like UC Davis is a common denominator... Law posted below:


§21.4265 Practical training approved as institutional training or on-job training.
(a)Medical-dental internships and residencies. (1) Medical residencies (other than residencies in podiatric medicine), dental residencies, and osteopathic internships and residencies may be approved and recognized as institutional courses only when an appropriate accrediting agency accredits and approves them as leading to certification for a recognized professional objective.

(2) The appropriate accrediting agencies are:

(i) The Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education, or where the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education has delegated accrediting authority, the appropriate Residency Review Committee,

(ii) The American Osteopathic Association, and

(iii) The Commission on Dental Accreditation of the American Dental Association.

(3) These residency programs—

(i) Must lead to certification by an appropriate Specialty or Subspecialty Board, the American Osteopathic Association, or the American Dental Association; and

(ii) Will not be approved to include a period of practice following completion of the education requirements even though the accrediting agency requires the practice.

(4) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(5) of this section, no other medical or dental residency or osteopathic internship or residency will be approved or recognized as institutional training.

(5) A residency in podiatric medicine may be approved and recognized as institutional training only when it has been approved by the Council on Podiatry Education of the American Podiatry Association.

(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3688(b))

(b)Nursing courses. (1) Courses for the objective of registered nurse or registered professional nurse will be assessed as institutional training when they are provided in autonomous schools of nursing, hospital schools of nursing, or schools of nursing established in other schools or departments of colleges and universities, if they are accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or if they meet the requirements of the licensing body of the State in which the school is located. The hospital or fieldwork phase of a nursing course, including a course leading to a degree in nursing, will be assessed as an institutional course when the hospital or fieldwork phase is an integral part of the course, the completion thereof is a prerequisite to the successful completion of the course, the student remains enrolled in the school during the period, and the training is under the direction and supervision of the school.

(2) Courses offered by schools which lead to the objective of practical nurse, practical trained nurse, or licensed practical nurse will be assessed as institutional training including both the academic subjects and the clinical training if the clinical training is offered by an affiliated or cooperating hospital and the student is enrolled in and supervised by the school during the period of such clinical training. Also they must be accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or meet the requirements of the licensing body of the State in which the school is located.

(3) Except for enrollment in a nurse's aide course approved pursuant to §21.4253(a)(5), VA shall not approve an enrollment in a nonaccredited nursing course which does not meet the licensing requirements of the State where the course is offered.

(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3452, 3688)

(c)Medical and dental specialty courses. (1) Required clinical training included in a school course given in an affiliated hospital, clinic, laboratory, or medical center as a part of a medical or dental specialty course whether accredited or nonaccredited offered by a school such as X-ray technician, medical technician, medical records administrator, physical therapist or dental technician shall be assessed as institutional training provided:

(i) The student remains enrolled in the course during the clinical period;

(ii) The clinical training is;

(a) An integral part of the course;

(b) A prerequisite to the successful completion of the course; and

(c) Under the direction and supervision of the school; and

(iii) The course includes substantial technical or professional training and does not consist of training preliminarily directed to clerical, administrative, secretarial, or receptionist duties.

(2) Medical and dental specialty courses offered in hospitals, clinics, laboratories, or medical centers which are accredited as institutional courses by a nationally recognized accrediting agency will be assessed as institutional training.

(3) Clinical training included in a school course given in a physician's office or a dentist's office, also called externship, will be recognized as part of the institutional training if the course is accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency and meets the other requirements of paragraph (c)(1) of this section. If the course is not so accredited such practical or on-the-job training or experience in a physician's office may not be included unless the program is approved as a cooperative course.

(4) Nonaccredited courses offered in hospitals, clinics, laboratories, or medical centers will be considered on-the-job training when the courses meet the requirements of §21.4262.

(d)Medical and dental assistants courses for the Department of Veterans Affairs. A course prescribed by the Secretary for full-time physicians' assistants or for full-time expanded-function auxiliaries (formerly referred to as dentists' assistants) may be approved as institutional training, if the course is conducted at Department of Veterans Affairs facilities or in facilities operated by hospitals, medical schools, or medical installations pursuant to a contract with the Department of Veterans Affairs.

(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 7407)

(e)Professional training courses. (1) Any non-medically related professional internship program, such as a clinical pastoral course, will be recognized as an institutional course when it is accredited as an institutional course by a nationally recognized accrediting agency, and

(2) The approved facility for such a course must be the institution or other facility where the training is given.

(f)Other practical training courses. (1) Other off-campus job experience included in a school course, variously described by schools as internship, residency, practicum, externship, et cetera, may be included as a part of a cooperative program when the course meets the requirements of §21.4233(a).

(2) However, such off-campus courses may be considered as resident institutional training only if all of the following conditions are met. The course is:

(i) Accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or is offered by a school that is accredited by one of the regional accrediting associations;

(ii) A part of the approved curriculum of the school;

(iii) Directly supervised by the school;

(iv) Measured in the same unit as other courses;

(v) Required for graduation; and

(vi) Has a planned program of activities described in the school's official publication which is approved by the State approving agency and which is institutional in nature as distinguished from training on-the-job. The description shall include at least:

(A) A unit subject description;

(B) A provision for an assigned instructor;

(C) A statement that the planned program of activities is controlled by the school, not by the officials of the job establishment;

(D) A requirement that class attendance on at least a weekly basis be regularly scheduled to provide for interaction between instructor and student;

(E) A statement that appropriate assignments are required for completion of the course;

(F) A grading system similar to the system used for other resident subjects offered by the school; and

(G) A schedule of time required for the training which demonstrates that the student shall spend at least as much time in preparation and training as is normally required by the school for its other resident courses.

(g)Nonaccredited courses. Any nonaccredited internship program not given in a school will be recognized as other on-the-job training when it meets the requirements of §21.4262 and when the program is required for licensure by the State in which it is offered. (See §21.4275 for measurement.)

[41 FR 26683, June 29, 1976, as amended at 43 FR 25429, June 13, 1978; 49 FR 39545, Oct. 9, 1984; 54 FR 34984, Aug. 23, 1989; 61 FR 6783, Feb. 22, 1996]
 
It’s a shame that they’re fracking up this valuable benefit that we earned. Bastards. Next they’ll say you can’t do an executive MBA, or legitimate online courses from actual real universities, like Harvard.


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