End of Grade Replacement?

[deleted244469]

Was your expectation that everyone was going to be super encouraging about ACCOMAS resolving a highly exploitable feature? Of course sudden variance is going to cause dichotomous attitudes towards the changes.

Not at all. I've just seen some people's attitudes on here take a 180 degree turn upon acceptance. It's more disappointing than anything.

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[Sardinia]

Not at all. I've just seen some people's attitudes on here take a 180 degree turn upon acceptance. Oh, and it's *AACOMAS

Thank you. Also, why is it surprising that people change stances based on personal circumstances?

 

[deleted244469]

Thank you. Also, why is it surprising that people change stances based on personal circumstances?

When individuals go from encouraging/friendly to snide, I find that surprising/disappointing.

Maybe it's just me......I mean, it IS SDN after all. Lol.

 

[Sardinia]

When individuals go from encouraging/friendly to snide, I find that surprising/disappointing. Maybe it's just me......I mean, it IS SDN after all. Lol.

It is a very common phenomenon on this site.

 

[lnguyen1412]

I'm one of those who did not even know about grade replacements until I hit that submitted button on AACOMAS. I feel bad for those who put their hard work all these years in. But believe me, I think each school do look at your GPA holistically.

 

[Two Sides]

Honestly, if grade replacement had to be implemented, it should have been done around the time of the merger - 2020. That being said, I don't know how you can remove the defining feature of the D.O. application process, and notify candidates via an email. I never liked AACOM, but this is a new one. If you aren't allowed to replace grades, then why would someone choose a D.O. school anyways.

 

[MarshMedic]

With the increase of average GPA for D.O. schools over the years, could they be doing this because they feel they are getting more competitive applicants now? Like someone said earlier, the applicant who never has never used grade replacement but has a 3.4-3.6 GPA would suddenly gain a large advantage.

Womp womp....As I enter into school with a 3.4 this cycle. But on the whole I'm just happy I'm entering school!!!

 

[BeachBlondie]

To those of you whom this will affect (and effect) gravely, my heart sincerely goes out to you. I agree with the general consensus: news like this should have gone out, you know, a couple of years ago -- certainly not a few months before an application cycle.

This is definitely a product of the move towards standardized medical education. This sweeping clean-up is being felt in residency programs, as well. For instance, my husband is a family medicine resident. At his same institution, the Ob-Gyn residency program kept faltering in one area or another under new requirements for the coming merger. As a result, that program has just been informed that it will be closed next year. With residents still in it. And interns who have only just started. Imagine that -- getting into residency, then being told your program is being killed.

If you're currently panicking, know that hope is not lost -- things like high performance on your MCAT, overall improvement in academic trends, and/or success in a hard science-based (possibly even thesis-seeking) Master's can help overcome a lack-luster track record.

Don't give up.

 

[Sardinia]

@BeachBlondie The resident students should have been offered a transition opportunity into another residency program. Otherwise that could constitute a misappropriated abuse of federal funding. If not, I see a great opportunity for either a law suit or a GAO report in order to at least ensure they are able to complete their training.

 

[BeachBlondie]

@BeachBlondie The resident students should have been offered a transition opportunity into another residency program. Otherwise that could constitute a misappropriated abuse of federal funding. If not, I see a great opportunity for a civil action suit.

I'm sure they're being offered options to transition to a locale of their choosing. However, it goes without saying that it would be both disheartening and a monumental pain to have to deal with.

Just using it as an example of last-minute alterations to medical education that seems to undermine the efforts of those in training.

 

[Goro]

The game has changed. So now, instead of taking the time to replace grades, take a year or two of med school-like coursework and ace it. Stop worrying your cGPA and focus on your most recent 1-2 years of performance. That, with a good MCAT, is good enough for some MD schools, so DO schools will be even more receptive.

 

[deleted244469]

The game has changed. So now, instead of taking the time to replace grades, take a year or two of med school-like coursework and ace it. Stop worrying your cGPA and focus on your most recent 1-2 years of performance. That, with a good MCAT, is good enough for some MD schools, so DO schools will be even more receptive.

So the best advice would be a 1-2 year SMP then, correct?

I'm sure a lot of users do not have the funds complete their own DIY SMP for 1-2 years, so at least an SMP would supply you with federal loans.

 

[Goro]

Correct. And I don't think that even 2 years in an SMP is needed. So basically, 1-2 years of DIY post-bac, or a year of SMP.

So the best advice would be a 1-2 year SMP then, correct?

I'm sure a lot of users do not have the funds complete their own DIY SMP for 1-2 years, so at least an SMP would supply you with federal loans.

 

[BarrelRoll]

The game has changed. So now, instead of taking the time to replace grades, take a year or two of med school-like coursework and ace it. Stop worrying your cGPA and focus on your most recent 1-2 years of performance. That, with a good MCAT, is good enough for some MD schools, so DO schools will be even more receptive.

So let's say you've retaken all pre-reqs with a grade of C or lower already and gotten all A's in them. However, even after retakes, your sGPA still sits below 3.0 due to the absence of grade replacement. Would a formal SMP right away be beneficial? From what I understand, adcoms will see the SMP GPA separately and the classes won't affect your sGPA. Do you still need to raise your sGPA before going into an SMP?

I know there are probably others with the same question

 

[Goro]

I do not believe so. A number of MD schools specifically state (like U UT) that they weight the last 2-3 years of your academic performance more than the entire thing.

Some SMPs require a minimum GPA, but there are so many of them out there, that you can find one. You may need to relocate. If that's not possible, do the post-bac.

So let's say you've retaken all pre-reqs with a grade of C or lower already and gotten all A's in them. However, even after retakes, your sGPA still sits below 3.0 due to the absence of grade replacement. Would a formal SMP right away be beneficial? From what I understand, adcoms will see the SMP GPA separately and the classes won't affect your sGPA. Do you still need to raise your sGPA before going into an SMP?

I know there are probably others with the same question

 

[Sardinia]

@kovalchuk71 @BarrelRoll There is a distinction to be drawn between SMPs and a DIY post-bac. The difference is that a post-bac DIY can be continually worked on until you are able to secure a firm acceptance. DO schools may see this as an opportunity to segue you into their SMP program if you are nervous about your chances. Accepting an SMP is akin to accepting the medical school, except you have accepted a terminal proposition. I believe that if you fail an SMP you can be considered DOA at many institutions. However, I'll let @Goro verify if failing an SMP program is really as terminal as I think it is.

 

[Sardinia]

@Goro I don't personally know if VCOM still offers their SMP program. Weirdly enough the link that I had bookmarked has a 404 error. However, I remember that the required passing GPA was abnormally high e.g. 3.5 / 3.75 with medical coursework. However, merits of the program were an outreach opportunity and that 60% of the students who weren't able to obtain the GPA were able to transition into other DO programs according to a pdf file explaining the program.

It appears the new website eliminated providing documentation of graduates completing the VCOM post-bac with less than desirable outcomes. Shame. It basically showed that a significant portion of a class didn't hit the benchmark, however were still able to transition into other programs.

 

[kelminak]

@Goro I don't personally know if VCOM still offers their SMP program. Weirdly enough the link that I had bookmarked has a 404 error. However, I remember that the required passing GPA was abnormally high e.g. 3.5 / 3.75 with medical coursework. However, merits of the program were an outreach opportunity and that 60% of the students who weren't able to obtain the GPA were able to transition into other DO programs according to a pdf file explaining the program.

It appears the new website eliminated providing documentation of graduates completing the VCOM post-bac with less than desirable outcomes. Shame. It basically showed that a significant portion of a class didn't hit the benchmark, however were still able to transition into other programs.

https://www.vcom.edu/premedical_admissions

 

[Sardinia]

https://www.vcom.edu/premedical_admissions

There was a pdf file hosted on their older website about their post-bac students transitioning into other DO programs. It still made the post-bac program look very attractive, however the statistics were for a significantly dated class, I believe it was 2011 or 2012.

 

[kelminak]

There was a pdf file hosted on their older website about their post-bac students transitioning into other DO programs. It still made the post-bac program look very attractive, however the statistics were for a significantly dated class, I believe it was 2011 or 2012.

Oops I'm sorry, I'm at work and only half-read the message you originally wrote while I was on the phone helping someone.

 

[DPTorDOstudent]

Fortunately, I am also in this exact situation. Although, It does feel odd that my course selection from 2007 is having such a drastic impact on me now.

I'm regretting majoring in biology in my undergrad years. Had I taken an easier major, I could've had a stellar cumulative GPA as well as my sGPA. But alas, my cGPA and my sGPA are garbage without grade replacement.

 

[DPTorDOstudent]

Not to mention if you take a class twice it's going to be far easier.

I disagree. My original failure in chemistry did not at all make the course easier when I retook the it 4 years later.

 

[DOCzilla15]

I disagree. My original failure in chemistry did not at all make the course easier when I retook the it 4 years later.

If you've seen material before you are at an advantage over someone who hasn't seen it before. Whether you do well the second time, objectively speaking, or not is irrelevant.

 

[Shotapp]

Lol. I feel the same. I wish I was an art major (I am really good at drawing but it was not a passion) instead of biology back then.

 

[DPTorDOstudent]

If you've seen material before you are at an advantage over someone who hasn't seen it before. Whether you do well the second time, objectively speaking, or not is irrelevant.

Sure, objectively speaking you can say that there is an advantage. But to say that taking a course twice makes the retake much easier is far-fetched. In reality, if someone flat out failed something once, I doubt that they have any grasp of the material come the second time around.

 

[bobtheweazel]

I doubt it personally I'd go dental or nursing before I did podiatry.

Dental school matriculants average around 3.5 GPAs, it wouldn't even be an option for someone who's stats were sub-DO.

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[futurexray]

I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, but won't this policy put into place a sort of incentive program? You either do well the first time you take a course or you settle for an averaged grade the second time taking that course? I find it pretty tough to think that a person who gets a D in gen bio who then retakes it and gets an A should have their transcript from aacomas show that they earned an A. There are definitely circumstances where someone has something bad happen, but for those that simply didn't put the necessary time in I don't feel they should be rewarded for retaking the course. Just my opinion!

Schools still see the D it is just not averaged in the GPA. This will hurt those who apply and schools filter out by MCAT and GPA. Other school may look at everything, see the D and then the A and realize that they have improved. For some schools it isn't all about the numbers but the progress.

 

[futurexray]

Aacomas is an app service. They're a company. Companies make money by selling services. Cmon you're better than that.

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Problem is AACOMAS is the only DO game in town

 

[spartanswill]

Only a few days left to change this semester's classes. so if you can help, I'd appreciate it!!!

Stats:
URM
cGPA 2.79
sGPA 2.71
>400 hours volunteering/working in healthcare as an ER Tech
>300 hours non-clinical community service
~50 shadowing hours
D1 student athlete

I graduated and returned to my college this semester to start retaking Biochem (F), Thermodynamics (F) and Differential Equations (D) along with upper science courses.

Thermo and Diff EQ aren't required for medical school but obviously count toward my science GPA, except the math class for DO app. After this semester I was going to retake the classes I got C's in: Calc 2, Genetics, Chem 2. (I was told to start with the worst grades first and work my way up.)

Since grade forgiveness is no longer a thing, should I forget about classes that aren't pre-reqs (thermo, diff EQ, calc 2) and also forget about redoing any classes I got a C in? Should my focus only be on upper level science courses and then shoot for an SMP?

 

[Two Sides]

Only a few days left to change this semester's classes. so if you can help, I'd appreciate it!!!

Stats:
URM
cGPA 2.79
sGPA 2.71
>400 hours volunteering/working in healthcare as an ER Tech
>300 hours non-clinical community service
~50 shadowing hours
D1 student athlete

I graduated and returned to my college this semester to start retaking Biochem (F), Thermodynamics (F) and Differential Equations (D) along with upper science courses.

Thermo and Diff EQ aren't required for medical school but obviously count toward my science GPA, except the math class for DO app. After this semester I was going to retake the classes I got C's in: Calc 2, Genetics, Chem 2. (I was told to start with the worst grades first and work my way up.)

Since grade forgiveness is no longer a thing, should I forget about classes that aren't pre-reqs (thermo, diff EQ, calc 2) and also forget about redoing any classes I got a C in? Should my focus only be on upper level science courses and then shoot for an SMP?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I believe a lot of SMPs have a 3.0 gpa and MCAT requirements.

 

[impervious0ne]

.

 

[IcedAmericano]

You can grade replace your heart out but the reality is that your transcripts are still going to be reviewed line by line. Every attempt at a course is still visible. If schools see an upward trend they're not going to focus on the gpa.

 

[IcedAmericano]

Is it the last 20 credits they look at?

Recruiters told me last 90 units.

 

[metoo]

Recruiters told me last 90 units.

Thanks for the info.!

 

[Chimichica]

Does anyone know if cut off gpa is for sGPA or cGPA?

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[Chimichica]

You know what forget this crap. I'll go do an SMP at a top 25 school, and apply to MD schools. I haven't killed myself getting +3.7 doing 15+ credit semesters in the sciences for three years to sale myself short! I was glad to apply DO when their policies favored reinvention, but now whats the point. I wanted to experience research anyways! Can someone point me towards some good SMP threads.

You're a savage! Love it! Let me know how it goes. ( that's a compliment by the way lol)

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[AlbinoHawk DO]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I believe a lot of SMPs have a 3.0 gpa and MCAT requirements.

The ones from institutions that have an MD program are typically 3.0, but the ones from DO institutions sometimes go to 2.75.

 

[trev5150]

Whelp, see y'all in Grenada.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Whelp, see y'all in Grenada.

If you are seriously considering The Caribbean because of this whole debacle, stop, take a deep breath, and apply to SMPs or Podiatry school. People get into Pod school with 3.0s and still become doctors. Yes, its not the most glamorous lifestyle, no you won't impress your extended family at weddings when you say "Podiatry School" over "Medical School", and no, you will never become filthy stinking rich like the Spine, ENT, and Ortho docs do. You will have a unique opportunity to provide a valuable service to people in need and find a job after school however.

 

[IlDestriero]

If you are seriously considering The Caribbean because of this whole debacle, stop, take a deep breath, and apply to SMPs or Podiatry school. People get into Pod school with 3.0s and still become doctors. Yes, its not the most glamorous lifestyle, no you won't impress your extended family at weddings when you say "Podiatry School" over "Medical School", and no, you will never become filthy stinking rich like the Spine, ENT, and Ortho docs do. You will have a unique opportunity to provide a valuable service to people in need and find a job after school however.

I think I'd take my chances in Grenada before becoming a podiatrist.


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Il Destriero

 

[GypsyHummus]

I think I'd take my chances in Grenada before becoming a podiatrist.


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Il Destriero

Why? That plan seems to be one wrought with risk. Especially with the amount of attrition the schools heap on the students on the islands. At least with podiatry, the worst chance you have of becoming a doctor/surgeon, is around a 85% chance. Keep in mind that the residency squeeze is coming, I don't know who would want to take a risk for the Caribbean.

 

[Lawpy]

I think I'd take my chances in Grenada before becoming a podiatrist.


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Il Destriero

yep same here. podiatry's too restricting and i don't want to deal with feet. although granted, i'd probably switch careers and do something else rather than pursuing either of these options.

 

[Geo16]

yep same here. podiatry's too restricting and i don't want to deal with feet. although granted, i'd probably switch careers and do something else rather than pursuing either of these options.

So is Dentist! Except you deal with toes Think of them as Foot Dentist.
We are all cool beans! I would think of Podiatry first, then Plan B then perhaps Grenada.
Not against that option, but the stories I've read were tough. I don't think I am able to survive there.

 

[Lawpy]

So is Dentist! Except you deal with toes Think of them as Foot Dentist.
We are all cool beans! I would think of Podiatry first, then Plan B then perhaps Grenada.
Not against that option, but the stories I've read were tough. I don't think I am able to survive there.

yeah it's individual preference in the end. I favor something like: try US medical school. If that doesn't work out, do something else. In my case, that's something besides other health professions.

 

[Geo16]

yeah it's individual preference in the end. I favor something like: try US medical school. If that doesn't work out, do something else. In my case, that's something besides other health professions.

True that! Just saying; but yeah, ultimately, it's all up to everyone's decision

 

[trev5150]

If you are seriously considering The Caribbean because of this whole debacle, stop, take a deep breath, and apply to SMPs or Podiatry school. People get into Pod school with 3.0s and still become doctors. Yes, its not the most glamorous lifestyle, no you won't impress your extended family at weddings when you say "Podiatry School" over "Medical School", and no, you will never become filthy stinking rich like the Spine, ENT, and Ortho docs do. You will have a unique opportunity to provide a valuable service to people in need and find a job after school however.

You didn't pick up that I was being facetious.

If there was such a thing as trauma podiatry I'd consider it.

I would rather, however, go the dental --> Level 1 Trauma OMFS route. Most of my clinical experience is dental (and pretty dang hands-on I dare say), aside from the EMT-B and volunteering and other various and sundry things I've seen and done over the years.

I think I'd take my chances in Grenada before becoming a podiatrist.
Il Destriero

I'd roll the dice on some of those Eastern Euro English 4 year MD programs before going Caribbean.

 

[GypsyHummus]

You didn't pick up that I was being facetious.

If there was such a thing as trauma podiatry I'd consider it.

I would rather, however, go the dental --> Level 1 Trauma OMFS route. Most of my clinical experience is dental (and pretty dang hands-on I dare say), aside from the EMT-B and volunteering and other various and sundry things I've seen and done over the years.



I'd roll the dice on some of those Eastern Euro English 4 year MD programs before going Caribbean.

Pods get trauma in many of the level 3 hospitals. Level 1 trauma center podiatrist taking call might be a little be more uncommon, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[trev5150]

Pods get trauma in many of the level 3 hospitals. Level 1 trauma center podiatrist taking call might be a little be more uncommon, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Well you sound all about it. Best of luck!

 

[Bob Debilder]

The ones from institutions that have an MD program are typically 3.0, but the ones from DO institutions sometimes go to 2.75.

Wait, so for those people who were really banking on grade replacement, and might not even get into an SMP due to GPA requirements, what option is there now?

At that point do you just retake any pre reqs you did poorly in, and do a DIY post-bacc and hope that some SMP will appreciate an upward trend and good MCAT? Or will SMP's just pre-screen?

 

[Moose A Moose]

Wait, so for those people who were really banking on grade replacement, and might not even get into an SMP due to GPA requirements, what option is there now?

At that point do you just retake any pre reqs you did poorly in, and do a DIY post-bacc and hope that some SMP will appreciate an upward trend and good MCAT? Or will SMP's just pre-screen?