EM pay/hours/lifestyle/matching/incentives questions

[Shovo]

Hello SDN,

I'm an incoming US MD student, and I'm not sure about which specialties I would like to pursue, but EM is one of the specialties that pique my interest. I've heard some good things, and also some bad things. So for anyone who is a resident/attending (or is very informed about EM), please provide me with some guidance in regards to the following questions (as well as anything else I should be aware of).

Since I anticipate having over $200K in debt (w/o even accounting for interest). Lets talk about managing that debt. I've seen that salary's are typically ~$300,000 and the typical hours are about 46-47 hours (according to AAMC iirc).

I've heard that EM is typically $200/hour-$300/hour. However if we assume working 45 hours in a week for 48 weeks in a year. Thats 2160 hours. $300,000/2160 hours=$138.88/hour
***Could someone please explain that discrepancy to me?***

Also what factors make EM physicians burn out (why is it considered super stressful)?

Is it feasible to work 50-60 hours a week out of residency (in order to eliminate my loans as quickly as possible)?

What are the best states to practice as an EM physician, and why do you believe?

What does a typical student matching into EM look like in terms of step scores, AOA, publications, Extracurricular, etc?

What are the typical hours for an EM resident? typical hours as an attending?

What are some of the other incentives that come with being an EM physician?

**Please add any additional insight as you see fit**

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[deleted547339]

Hello SDN,

I'm an incoming US MD student, and I'm not sure about which specialties I would like to pursue, but EM is one of the specialties that pique my interest. I've heard some good things, and also some bad things. So for anyone who is a resident/attending (or is very informed about EM), please provide me with some guidance in regards to the following questions (as well as anything else I should be aware of).

Since I anticipate having over $200K in debt (w/o even accounting for interest). Lets talk about managing that debt. I've seen that salary's are typically ~$300,000 and the typical hours are about 46-47 hours (according to AAMC iirc).

I've heard that EM is typically $200/hour-$300/hour. However if we assume working 45 hours in a week for 48 weeks in a year. Thats 2160 hours. $300,000/2160 hours=$138.88/hour
***Could someone please explain that discrepancy to me?***

Also what factors make EM physicians burn out (why is it considered super stressful)?

Is it feasible to work 50-60 hours a week out of residency (in order to eliminate my loans as quickly as possible)?

What are the best states to practice as an EM physician, and why do you believe?

What does a typical student matching into EM look like in terms of step scores, AOA, publications, Extracurricular, etc?

What are the typical hours for an EM resident? typical hours as an attending?

What are some of the other incentives that come with being an EM physician?

**Please add any additional insight as you see fit**

The search function is you friend.

For a few of your questions, look at "charting the outcomes" - ACEP grades of states. Hours are 1/3 days, 1/3 evenings, 1/3 nights. No, not really feasible to work 60 hours a week. 200-300/h is feasible, but plenty make 150-175/h, particularly in academics, popular areas (NYC, SF, etc). Healthy people die and you get all the dregs of society. CMGs are also raping emergency physicians driving pay down as they skim off the top.

We're done here.

 

[link2swim06]

People don't advertise below average rates here. Just because someone lists $400/hr, that doesn't mean that is is the average. People like to brag....hence a disproportionate list of high rates (which do exist in certain areas).

60 hours in EM a week may equal seeing 600-800 patients a month. That's a recipe for burnout.

 

[Shovo]

People don't advertise below average rates here. Just because someone lists $400/hr, that doesn't mean that is is the average. People like to brag....hence a disproportionate list of high rates (which do exist in certain areas).

60 hours in EM a week may equal seeing 600-800 patients a month. That's a recipe for burnout.

So what is the typical rate and hours worked? Lets assume this is not in a big city but instead a rural or semi-rural area


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[deleted547339]

So what is the typical rate and hours worked? Lets assume this is not in a big city but instead a rural or semi-rural area


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I repeat. The search function (and google) are your friend.

 

[lucid_leprechaun]

Hello SDN,

I'm an incoming US MD student, and I'm not sure about which specialties I would like to pursue, but EM is one of the specialties that pique my interest. I've heard some good things, and also some bad things. So for anyone who is a resident/attending (or is very informed about EM), please provide me with some guidance in regards to the following questions (as well as anything else I should be aware of).

Since I anticipate having over $200K in debt (w/o even accounting for interest). Lets talk about managing that debt. I've seen that salary's are typically ~$300,000 and the typical hours are about 46-47 hours (according to AAMC iirc).

I've heard that EM is typically $200/hour-$300/hour. However if we assume working 45 hours in a week for 48 weeks in a year. Thats 2160 hours. $300,000/2160 hours=$138.88/hour
***Could someone please explain that discrepancy to me?***

Also what factors make EM physicians burn out (why is it considered super stressful)?

Is it feasible to work 50-60 hours a week out of residency (in order to eliminate my loans as quickly as possible)?

What are the best states to practice as an EM physician, and why do you believe?

What does a typical student matching into EM look like in terms of step scores, AOA, publications, Extracurricular, etc?

What are the typical hours for an EM resident? typical hours as an attending?

What are some of the other incentives that come with being an EM physician?

**Please add any additional insight as you see fit**

First off, if you're interested in emergency medicine do well in your classes and get good board scores. It sounds like you haven't looked into the field at all. Definitely pass your first year classes. Boards will vary depending on year, currently 250+ Step 1 predicts competitiveness.
Second, most attending's work 12 to 15 shifts a month. The pay can very wildly depending on the region you work in.
Burn out is typically associated with the fact that the patients to see and the weird shifts you have are not sustainable. This is a huge variable, however, given that different people have different tolerances.
Lastly, region of practice greatly determines salary and can vary all the time.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I've heard that EM is typically $200/hour-$300/hour. However if we assume working 45 hours in a week for 48 weeks in a year. Thats 2160 hours. $300,000/2160 hours=$138.88/hour
***Could someone please explain that discrepancy to me?***

200-300/hr exist, but so do jobs that pay you 120/hr. I'd venture to guess most EM docs are going to make in and around 200/hr give or take some. Yes you can make more, but we are talking averages. Part of the issue in the logic is your hours worked. 2160 would be a lot of hours. I'd venture to guess most EM docs are working somewhere in the 35hr/week range for full time on average.

Also what factors make EM physicians burn out (why is it considered super stressful)?

Its super stressful because you see completely undifferentiated patients. Many of them are underserved. All the patients that are fired from their doc for being violent, drug seeking ,etc. They are yours. And you'll be pulled in a million directions. Seeing 2.5 patients/hr is hard enough, but you'll be constantly pulled out of rooms and interupted to sign ecgs, take medical command, field phone calls from docs sending patients in, etc. When you work, you work from the time you get there until the time you leave no matter what. Just saw a 2 year old who was beaten to death? Fine. There's 10 more patients waiting to be seen. You can't take the day off when something bad happens. There is no hiding when it seems like the world is crashing down about your ED.

I'm not trying to make EM sound horrible, but it is what it is. There is a reason we work less hours than just about any specialty but have the highest burnout. It's a stressful stressful job, and unfortunately one that most people don't fully appreciate the stress of until they are a senior level resident.

That being said, it's also incredibly rewarding if you can handle the stress.

Is it feasible to work 50-60 hours a week out of residency (in order to eliminate my loans as quickly as possible)?

You can eliminate your loans without working 60 hours a week. If you worked 40 hours a week instead of 35 (two extra shifts a month), lets say you gross 400K. After taxes/deductions/401k lets say 250k. If you live off of 150K, you can pay your loans off in a few years. Just live off 150k. That should absolutely not be hard to do. And you don't have to kill yourself to do it.

What are the best states to practice as an EM physician, and why do you believe?

Wherever you want to live. There is incredible variety in ED jobs hospital to hospital, let alone state to state. You can find good jobs and bad jobs anywhere. The most important thing for staying sane in EM is finding something that isn't medicine that is important to you, that's an outlet for your time. So if you love to surf, then CA is the best place for EM. If you love to hunt, maybe PA is the best place for EM. If you love to golf year round, maybe Florida, CA, or Arizona. You get my point. Find a place where you'll love to live, and it will make the job much easier.

What does a typical student matching into EM look like in terms of step scores, AOA, publications, Extracurricular, etc?

Publications/Extracurriculars tend not to carry as much weight in EM. They are more icing on the cake. Mean step 1 was 233 this past year (2016), but that doesn't mean you can't match with lower scores. Of the 200 people that applied with a step 1 between 210-220, 180/200 (90%) matched. You can definitely match with lower scores. Above all else (and this is backed up by the PD surveys that come out every year) EM values clinical performance in the form of EM rotation grades and EM Standard Letters of Evaluation (SLOEs). Next most is probably the interview and personality of the student.

What are the typical hours for an EM resident? typical hours as an attending?

Most attendings work about 30-35 hours a week as a full time doc.
Residents in the ED are capped at 60 hours, but I'd imagine most programs work much less. My residents work 40-45 hrs/week on average while in the ED.

What are some of the other incentives that come with being an EM physician?

You have the best stories at parties. You have a good bit of time off outside of medicine. And every once in awhile, when you least expect it, you will bring someone back from the brink of death and from that moment on, for the rest of that persons life, they will be forever grateful that you were there in that moment. You know, cool stuff like that.

 

[fahimaz7]

ACEP says the average doc works 140 hours/mo which is 1640. That's $182/hour. W2 vs 1099 matters as well.

 

[HooliganSnail]

You have the best stories at parties. You have a good bit of time off outside of medicine. And every once in awhile, when you least expect it, you will bring someone back from the brink of death and from that moment on, for the rest of that persons life, they will be forever grateful that you were there in that moment. You know, cool stuff like that.

This x 1000. I get caught up in the mundane and stress of our job so often, that sometimes it's hard to stop and smell the roses, but they are there.

 

[HooliganSnail]

ACEP says the average doc works 140 hours/mo which is 1640. That's $182/hour. W2 vs 1099 matters as well.

This would be accurate as an average based on all of my job searchings.

The long list of people who go around "I would NEVER work for less than $400/hr", or "New grads think they are making good money at 275/hr, but they just don't know...." drives me absolutely nuts. There are definitely situations and places where you can rake a CMG through the coals at 450/hr, but that is the exception, far from the rule.

182/hr average across the nation seems to be about right....+/-$10/hr

 

[GeneralVeers]

This would be accurate as an average based on all of my job searchings.

The long list of people who go around "I would NEVER work for less than $400/hr", or "New grads think they are making good money at 275/hr, but they just don't know...." drives me absolutely nuts. There are definitely situations and places where you can rake a CMG through the coals at 450/hr, but that is the exception, far from the rule.

182/hr average across the nation seems to be about right....+/-$10/hr

I always explain the trade-offs. If you are willing to live in a crappy area or travel, you will get paid more. That is capitalism. Most people aren't willing to make the trade offs, so have to accept lower salaries.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

. Boards will vary depending on year, currently 250+ Step 1 predicts competitiveness.

250 is like 90th+ percentile right?

I always thought EM averaged around 230, with people being able to confidently match >220

 

[lucid_leprechaun]

250 is like 90th+ percentile right?

I always thought EM averaged around 230, with people being able to confidently match >220

You are absolutely right, most people above 220 end up matching. I was thinking 250+ for an open door at the "big names" in EM. Although more and more it seems that SLOEs factor in more than board scores, which can be a good or bad thing

 

[goodoldalky]

I personally wouldn't take much under $250 an hour for a regular pace job. I'd be willing to work for less at a quiet sleep all night 3 patients per day kind of a place. Keep in mind the collections average $150/patient/hour at an average payer mix average acuity site. If you are seeing 2.5 an hour and getting paid 180, your employer is taking in $375, keeping $195, and giving you 180. If your acuity is high or your payer mix is good the numbers shift accordingly. I do have colleagues in other areas of the country that work for $150 an hour. They don't like it, but they do it, and they probably work as hard as I do.

 

[Mad Jack]

Hello SDN,

I'm an incoming US MD student, and I'm not sure about which specialties I would like to pursue, but EM is one of the specialties that pique my interest. I've heard some good things, and also some bad things. So for anyone who is a resident/attending (or is very informed about EM), please provide me with some guidance in regards to the following questions (as well as anything else I should be aware of).

Since I anticipate having over $200K in debt (w/o even accounting for interest). Lets talk about managing that debt. I've seen that salary's are typically ~$300,000 and the typical hours are about 46-47 hours (according to AAMC iirc).

I've heard that EM is typically $200/hour-$300/hour. However if we assume working 45 hours in a week for 48 weeks in a year. Thats 2160 hours. $300,000/2160 hours=$138.88/hour
***Could someone please explain that discrepancy to me?***

Also what factors make EM physicians burn out (why is it considered super stressful)?

Is it feasible to work 50-60 hours a week out of residency (in order to eliminate my loans as quickly as possible)?

What are the best states to practice as an EM physician, and why do you believe?

What does a typical student matching into EM look like in terms of step scores, AOA, publications, Extracurricular, etc?

What are the typical hours for an EM resident? typical hours as an attending?

What are some of the other incentives that come with being an EM physician?

**Please add any additional insight as you see fit**

Generally EM is 14-16 12 hour shifts a month, not 45/wk 48 weeks per year.

 

[Mad Jack]

You are absolutely right, most people above 220 end up matching. I was thinking 250+ for an open door at the "big names" in EM. Although more and more it seams that SLOEs factor in more than board scores, which can be a good or bad thing

EM is much more holistic than other specialties in regard to evaluation- SLOEs, Step 1, and Step 2 all matter a good deal.

 

[CCmetal94]

Generally EM is 14-16 12 hour shifts a month, not 45/wk 48 weeks per year.

I scribe in the rural midwest and the docs work about 13-15 8hr shifts a months, and make 500K a year! It blows my mind. This locum doc I was scribing for one day was like "Psst, hey. You know how much they are paying me for this shift? $550/hr". I was like uhhhhh cool lol.

 

[deleted109597]

ACEP says the average doc works 140 hours/mo which is 1640. That's $182/hour. W2 vs 1099 matters as well.

The average doc who responds to ACEP is crazy then. I've worked 140 hours exactly once since residency.
Maybe I should be working more...

 

[dav86]

Generally EM is 14-16 12 hour shifts a month, not 45/wk 48 weeks per year.

I don't think that is right. EM docs usually work between 120-160 hrs a month. Most SMART EM docs work closer to 120 hrs/month or less and don't take less than 250/hr. 16-12 hr shifts is 192 hrs a month. Unless you are seeing less than 1 pph you will quickly burn out. With 12 hr shifts I would work no more than 12 a month, but would likely work closer to 9-10 a month. 14-16 shifts/month would make more sense if they were 8 hours, but I still think once you get over 15 shifts a month (if you do a mix of shifts, including nights) it isn't worth it unless you are making 300+/hr. Life is short. Shift work syndrome/sleep syndrome, whatever you want to call it, is real. Be happy clearing 300-400k/yr for working 1250-1500 hrs/yr. Who knows when the gravy train will end. Once medicare/medicaid reimbursements drop who knows what we will be paid. Gotta get it while you can.

 

[Mad Jack]

I don't think that is right. EM docs usually work between 120-160 hrs a month. Most SMART EM docs work closer to 120 hrs/month or less and don't take less than 250/hr. 16-12 hr shifts is 192 hrs a month. Unless you are seeing less than 1 pph you will quickly burn out. With 12 hr shifts I would work no more than 12 a month, but would likely work closer to 9-10 a month. 14-16 shifts/month would make more sense if they were 8 hours, but I still think once you get over 15 shifts a month (if you do a mix of shifts, including nights) it isn't worth it unless you are making 300+/hr. Life is short. Shift work syndrome/sleep syndrome, whatever you want to call it, is real. Be happy clearing 300-400k/yr for working 1250-1500 hrs/yr. Who knows when the gravy train will end. Once medicare/medicaid reimbursements drop who knows what we will be paid. Gotta get it while you can.

Oh, I meant 10-12, my bad. It's usually 32-36 hours a week, my math was sloppy.

 

[throckmortonDO]

You haven't started medschool yet, and I promise your interests will change. scope out a few things. see how you do on boards. do some electives. you'll want to do as well as possible in medical school so you have the option to be eligible for multiple specialties. I get it. you are type A like the rest of us and want to be well informed, but you won't actually know much about the specialty you may like until you are in the trenches doing it.

EM is hot right now. that may change. Corporate medicine is pillaging us. Salaries may change. There is a customer service side to this specialty which you may not like. You are a hired gun or as someone once cleverly put it on here 'a day laborer'. You'll have to decide if that is for you. Stop paying attention to what most others say and see if you are flexible enough to do the work involved for the long haul. Once you are out of med school the jockeying kind of ends and the real world starts to begin.

You need to figure out what your life goals are like once you are in 3rd year. Do you want kids? travel? controllable schedules? predictable call?more of a workaholic? like lots of free time? energized by people? energized by self direction or working alone? more of a team player or more of a solo flyer? where do you want to live? where do you see yourself in 20 yrs? 30? etc. get an idea of what fields are like for ATTENDINGS, and not just from your perception of residents. Residency ends and your career as an attending should be more of a determinant factor. you may end up a pathologist or a FP, neurology, psych, or CT surgery. doesn't matter. you don't need to prove anything to anyone. just be true to yourself and make the best decision you can make with the information you have and trust your gut.

I almost became a surgeon, but I like the team aspect of EM more. I like my kids and my wife more than I like medicine. I get bored of long intensive workups/management and I can only stand so much minutiae. I don't mind chaos. I don't mind drunks and drug addicts. I do see people die and it hurts, but my personality is able to deal with that and keep going. I like working hard and having some free time. Most days I work I come home beat and can't do much but lay on the couch after, but my family tolerates this because I have some time off for them. My wife now works from home and patterns her schedule around mine, otherwise we would both be miserable to be honest. you need to see if your life goals are similar or if something like that is intolerable. EM came naturally to me and I excelled at it far more than other fields I tried to become interested in, even surgical subspecialties that my mentors tried to push me to "cuz you got a great board score man you should be doing xx" . I like being a generalist more than a specialist.

stop thinking about money and lifestyle. fields flux, and things change. Just look at radiology or anesthesia for an idea.

Think long and hard about what you want out of life

 

[emergentmd]

140 hrs a mo seems alittle high but not very far from what I see. That is about 32 hrs a week.
140hr/mo is pushing my limits and I would say most. Once you get 160/mo (just 2 more shifts), you are getting into the Heavy workers.

In my group of 100 dos, I would say the most worked is 18 shifts*9 hrs = 162/mo. Most does about 15*9= 135

But I have been at some locums places where they do 22*12 hrs=264. And the ones who did this have been doing it for years. Crazy but they do pull in alittle over 1 Mil.

 

[Shovo]

200-300/hr exist, but so do jobs that pay you 120/hr. I'd venture to guess most EM docs are going to make in and around 200/hr give or take some. Yes you can make more, but we are talking averages. Part of the issue in the logic is your hours worked. 2160 would be a lot of hours. I'd venture to guess most EM docs are working somewhere in the 35hr/week range for full time on average.



Its super stressful because you see completely undifferentiated patients. Many of them are underserved. All the patients that are fired from their doc for being violent, drug seeking ,etc. They are yours. And you'll be pulled in a million directions. Seeing 2.5 patients/hr is hard enough, but you'll be constantly pulled out of rooms and interupted to sign ecgs, take medical command, field phone calls from docs sending patients in, etc. When you work, you work from the time you get there until the time you leave no matter what. Just saw a 2 year old who was beaten to death? Fine. There's 10 more patients waiting to be seen. You can't take the day off when something bad happens. There is no hiding when it seems like the world is crashing down about your ED.

I'm not trying to make EM sound horrible, but it is what it is. There is a reason we work less hours than just about any specialty but have the highest burnout. It's a stressful stressful job, and unfortunately one that most people don't fully appreciate the stress of until they are a senior level resident.

That being said, it's also incredibly rewarding if you can handle the stress.



You can eliminate your loans without working 60 hours a week. If you worked 40 hours a week instead of 35 (two extra shifts a month), lets say you gross 400K. After taxes/deductions/401k lets say 250k. If you live off of 150K, you can pay your loans off in a few years. Just live off 150k. That should absolutely not be hard to do. And you don't have to kill yourself to do it.



Wherever you want to live. There is incredible variety in ED jobs hospital to hospital, let alone state to state. You can find good jobs and bad jobs anywhere. The most important thing for staying sane in EM is finding something that isn't medicine that is important to you, that's an outlet for your time. So if you love to surf, then CA is the best place for EM. If you love to hunt, maybe PA is the best place for EM. If you love to golf year round, maybe Florida, CA, or Arizona. You get my point. Find a place where you'll love to live, and it will make the job much easier.



Publications/Extracurriculars tend not to carry as much weight in EM. They are more icing on the cake. Mean step 1 was 233 this past year (2016), but that doesn't mean you can't match with lower scores. Of the 200 people that applied with a step 1 between 210-220, 180/200 (90%) matched. You can definitely match with lower scores. Above all else (and this is backed up by the PD surveys that come out every year) EM values clinical performance in the form of EM rotation grades and EM Standard Letters of Evaluation (SLOEs). Next most is probably the interview and personality of the student.



Most attendings work about 30-35 hours a week as a full time doc.
Residents in the ED are capped at 60 hours, but I'd imagine most programs work much less. My residents work 40-45 hrs/week on average while in the ED.



You have the best stories at parties. You have a good bit of time off outside of medicine. And every once in awhile, when you least expect it, you will bring someone back from the brink of death and from that moment on, for the rest of that persons life, they will be forever grateful that you were there in that moment. You know, cool stuff like that.

Thank you so much!!! These are exact type of answers I wanted to see.

 

[Shovo]

You haven't started medschool yet, and I promise your interests will change. scope out a few things. see how you do on boards. do some electives. you'll want to do as well as possible in medical school so you have the option to be eligible for multiple specialties. I get it. you are type A like the rest of us and want to be well informed, but you won't actually know much about the specialty you may like until you are in the trenches doing it.

EM is hot right now. that may change. Corporate medicine is pillaging us. Salaries may change. There is a customer service side to this specialty which you may not like. You are a hired gun or as someone once cleverly put it on here 'a day laborer'. You'll have to decide if that is for you. Stop paying attention to what most others say and see if you are flexible enough to do the work involved for the long haul. Once you are out of med school the jockeying kind of ends and the real world starts to begin.

You need to figure out what your life goals are like once you are in 3rd year. Do you want kids? travel? controllable schedules? predictable call?more of a workaholic? like lots of free time? energized by people? energized by self direction or working alone? more of a team player or more of a solo flyer? where do you want to live? where do you see yourself in 20 yrs? 30? etc. get an idea of what fields are like for ATTENDINGS, and not just from your perception of residents. Residency ends and your career as an attending should be more of a determinant factor. you may end up a pathologist or a FP, neurology, psych, or CT surgery. doesn't matter. you don't need to prove anything to anyone. just be true to yourself and make the best decision you can make with the information you have and trust your gut.

I almost became a surgeon, but I like the team aspect of EM more. I like my kids and my wife more than I like medicine. I get bored of long intensive workups/management and I can only stand so much minutiae. I don't mind chaos. I don't mind drunks and drug addicts. I do see people die and it hurts, but my personality is able to deal with that and keep going. I like working hard and having some free time. Most days I work I come home beat and can't do much but lay on the couch after, but my family tolerates this because I have some time off for them. My wife now works from home and patterns her schedule around mine, otherwise we would both be miserable to be honest. you need to see if your life goals are similar or if something like that is intolerable. EM came naturally to me and I excelled at it far more than other fields I tried to become interested in, even surgical subspecialties that my mentors tried to push me to "cuz you got a great board score man you should be doing xx" . I like being a generalist more than a specialist.

stop thinking about money and lifestyle. fields flux, and things change. Just look at radiology or anesthesia for an idea.

Think long and hard about what you want out of life

I 100% agree with you. I really dont know what I want to pursue at the moment, and my desired specialty will constantly change throughout my medical education. At the moment, I'm just trying to gain further insight into each prospective field (starting with EM).

If you don't mind me asking, I'm curious to know what exactly you're referring to in regards to customer service. I've heard through the grapevines that compensation in EM commensurate with scores on a satisfaction of care survey given to patients. Is that true? If so, could you explain the process a little more in depth to me?

 

[Got Em]

Sorry to bump this old thread. Couldn't search for what I was looking for.

What is the lowest number of hours per month that you have seen for full time benefits (excluding nocturnal-only scheduling)??? I'm planning to do a side gig and have a start up.

I've asked some of my co-residents and most of the offers right now are for 120 hours/month minimum, but I've heard some say there are full time benefits available for 90-100 hours/month. If so, are these only for private democratic groups or would this be corporate groups as well?

 

[deleted859535]

Sorry to bump this old thread. Couldn't search for what I was looking for.

What is the lowest number of hours per month that you have seen for full time benefits (excluding nocturnal-only scheduling)??? I'm planning to do a side gig and have a start up.

I've asked some of my co-residents and most of the offers right now are for 120 hours/month minimum, but I've heard some say there are full time benefits available for 90-100 hours/month. If so, are these only for private democratic groups or would this be corporate groups as well?

110-120 is the lowest I've seen. Good luck with this side gig and startup thing.

 

[surfguy84]

140 hrs a mo seems alittle high but not very far from what I see. That is about 32 hrs a week.
140hr/mo is pushing my limits and I would say most. Once you get 160/mo (just 2 more shifts), you are getting into the Heavy workers.

In my group of 100 dos, I would say the most worked is 18 shifts*9 hrs = 162/mo. Most does about 15*9= 135

But I have been at some locums places where they do 22*12 hrs=264. And the ones who did this have been doing it for years. Crazy but they do pull in alittle over 1 Mil.

Doesnt that work out to like 300+ an hour? Where are people able to get 264 hours a month at 300+ an hour?

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Doesnt that work out to like 300+ an hour? Where are people able to get 264 hours a month at 300+ an hour?

But I have been at some locums places where they do 22*12 hrs=264. And the ones who did this have been doing it for years. Crazy but they do pull in alittle over 1 Mil.

 

[Xerxes1729]

What is the lowest number of hours per month that you have seen for full time benefits (excluding nocturnal-only scheduling)??? I'm planning to do a side gig and have a start up.

I worked at a place where you could get benefits down to half time (I worked full time, but I think that's correct). But (W2) compensation came in the form of take home pay = collections - benefits - taxes. So your take home pay would go down. But if having the group health, life, disability, etc. insurance is really important, you could get it.

 

[emergentmd]

Doesnt that work out to like 300+ an hour? Where are people able to get 264 hours a month at 300+ an hour?

There are many places in big cities that will contract you at 275-325/hr. These places are not for the meek but that is why they have to pay so high to attracted boarded docs.

Getting 264/mo is not difficult in these places. Those full timers could literally work every day of the month x 12 hr shifts if they wanted. Even when the full timers gets scheduled there are 20-40 shifts a month left to be filled by locums at $300+/hr Plus bonuses