Duke fellowship

Discussion in 'Podiatric Residents & Physicians' started by sinustarsi, Mar 18, 2017.

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  1. sinustarsi

    sinustarsi 7+ Year Member

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    Anybody know What duke podiatry fellowship like? They have foot and ankle orthopods(Nunley) who don't like podiatrist.
    I liked Hyers program.
     
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  3. pacpod

    pacpod That foot guy SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    I looked into it but was told to get a NC license to be allowed to apply. It's a drawn out process and I didn't want to obtain a full license just to be able to apply to a program. It certainly surprised me that they started one. I'm curious to see how it goes. Good luck on your fellowship hunt.
     
  4. josebiwasabi

    josebiwasabi 7+ Year Member

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    Looking at their website they have 3 MD F&A fellows on top of their DPM fellow. I know nothing about their program but from that alone I would be concerned about quantity and quality of rearfoot cases.
     
  5. ldsrmdude

    ldsrmdude Pod Mod 'Dude SDN Administrator 10+ Year Member

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    I also don't know anything personally the fellowship, but I think that the concerns everyone has brought up are huge concerns. I honestly didn't know there was a fellowship for DPM at Duke until this thread. It's also not an accredited or recognized as far as I can tell. North Carolina has a reputation for being a tough state to get a license in with a written and oral exam that is only offered once a year. I'd hate to pay several hundred dollars and take a 2-day test only to not get a spot or worse, get a spot and watch the MD F&A fellows do cases for a year.
     
  6. I post PRN

    I post PRN 2+ Year Member

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    Can't imagine that going well for any DPM. That's like the mecca of F&A ortho.
     
  7. MarquetteGuy

    MarquetteGuy 10+ Year Member

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    Well, I can tell you that one of those renowned Duke University FA ortho MD's just flew out to my town of practice, across the country, to train me, a DPM, as the first trained surgeon in the country (MD, DO, or DPM), in their new total ankle replacement system, outside of the 3 principle designers of this new total ankle system at Duke University. That must say something positive about our profession.
     
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  8. bobtheweazel

    bobtheweazel

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    Current APMA president made it sound like the Duke fellowship came about as a result of the Receipt of Care and Reduction of Lower Extremity Amputations in a Nationally Representative Sample of U.S. Elderly study done by Duke. Whether that's actually the case...
     
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  9. I post PRN

    I post PRN 2+ Year Member

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    That's awesome. Good sign for sure.
     
  10. dtrack22

    dtrack22 7+ Year Member

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    That's sweet, when are they finally going to launch? And I'm assuming if you put them in your patient's will be included in their initial trial/data set?

    Back to the fellowship...I also don't know much about it but I hope the DPM fellow gets the same experience as the MD/DOs. They do have a DPM on staff, Kerzner, but he does a lot of the stuff that nobody else in the group will or wants to (see: wounds and charcot recon). Not that its the only part of his practice...but they didn't hire him to come up from FL and do total ankles...
     
  11. MarquetteGuy

    MarquetteGuy 10+ Year Member

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    They have already launched technically, with a limited rollout. I've been putting them in for the past few weeks.
     
  12. dtrack22

    dtrack22 7+ Year Member

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    Limited is right, they still don't have the Vantage up on the exactech website. That's why I assumed it hadn't launched yet, since they've had FDA clearance to market it since Q1 of last year. Cool stuff man.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  13. Racer543

    Racer543

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    Do you guys think a fellowship is worth it?
     
  14. Ankle Breaker

    Ankle Breaker Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    The Duke fellowship isn't worth it but other fellowships are. But there are a lot of new fellowships run by reputable attendings but the fellow either isn't doing very much or is being treated like a PA to see post op patients while the attending can see more new patients.

    Very few fellowships do it right. Right in terms of giving the fellow autonomy in the OR after a certain grace period and allowing them to run their own clinic where they get to treat brand new patients themselves and manage them with little oversight. If you visit a fellowship program and you are not seeing the above mentioned happening you are better off going out into practice and figuring it out on your own. Do more courses if you have in order to fill in the gaps.

    All the current fellowships out there are run by reputable attendings who didn't complete a ACFAS fellowship except for a few programs. That pretty much tells you how valuable a fellowship really is.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
    SLCpod likes this.
  15. DexterMorganSK

    DexterMorganSK The Blood Guy

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    It seems like the number of spots for fellowships is pretty limited at the moment according to the link below. Making it extremely competitive.

    List of Approved Fellowships | CPME

    Would you know if that list is current because there are only 12 available spots? Maybe there are other places that are not yet approved by CPME?
     
  16. bobtheweazel

    bobtheweazel

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    There are also ACFAS approved/certified/whatever fellowships.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile
     
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  17. pacpod

    pacpod That foot guy SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    DexterMorganSK and bobtheweazel like this.
  18. ExperiencedDPM

    ExperiencedDPM

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    I have a slightly different perspective on the Duke program. Although it's always beneficial to learn in a quality program, my feeling is that the name Duke alone can open doors.

    I will explain. A lot of mainstream medicine still don't really understand podiatric education or training. To top it off, there are a significant number of residency programs based out of small community hospitals or VA hospitals. VA programs for the most part don't have the greatest reputation. And the smaller community hospitals are simply unknown to most who aren't in that geographic area.

    There are residency programs associated with Harvard and Yale, and while those programs may not be top programs, I know many of their grads who have landed great jobs with Ortho or multi specialty groups due to name recognition.

    I believe DeKalb is a great program, but now they also use "Emory" when mentioning the program. It's all about name recognition.

    My feeling is that when applying for positions with an MD group, whether it's multi specialty or ortho, is that when they see a Duke, Harvard, Yale, Penn-Presbyterian, Univ of Pitt, Loyola, UMDNJ, etc., and they recognize the institution (vs a small community hospital) it's a definite "plus".

    Once again, I'm not suggesting that all these programs are top notch, but to MD outsiders, having a Duke fellowship or training at a major institution they recognize is beneficial.

    Just my perspective on this issue.
     
  19. car36

    car36 7+ Year Member

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    And how did you come about this "knowledge". It's only in its first year and you know nothing about it? You spit a lot of personal opinion as facts that don't have any real substance or evidence to back it up.
     
  20. Ankle Breaker

    Ankle Breaker Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    Apparently I've struck a nerve with you. Do you train in North Carolina?

    This is an open forum and I am free to share personal opinions. Duke orthopedics is the mecca of foot and ankle ortho. AOFAS does not like or respect podiatry. If you do not believe in that then you are delusional.

    I train in Seattle and listen to people like Bruce Sangeorzan and Steve Benirshke bash podiatry in front of me while we attend their radiology rounds every Monday afternoon.

    I am well aware and have ample experience with dealing with/ listening to some of the preeminent foot and ankle orthos and how they really feel about podiatry.

    Are you telling me Nunley , DeOrio, Easley, Parekh, Adams really care about podiatry other than when they want a DPM to be a consultant with them on a new product they designed? You do know that Easley openly wrote a letter on the behalf of the AAOS and AOFAS stating he did not think DPMs deserve equal pay in the VA hospitals right? Please see attached.

    Does that sound like a man who would support a legitimate podiatry fellowship? Do you see Easley handing over the knife to DPM fellow? I don't.
     

    Attached Files:

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  21. car36

    car36 7+ Year Member

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    No I do not practice in NC. You base your advice to someone off of your presumption of a program without any real knowledge. The appropriate thing to recommend to someone asking about a fellowship is to encourage them to reach out to the current fellow. You may be surprised about how well the Duke Pod fellow is integrated into the Ortho F&A Fellow training. That would require actual familiarity with a program instead of Sherlock like conclusions.
     
  22. Ankle Breaker

    Ankle Breaker Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    I would be absolutely shocked if the DPM fellow gets treated the same and gets as much hands on experience as the foot and ankle ortho fellow. Absolutely shocked.

    That would be contradictory to everything the AOFAS stands for and has stated about podiatry their standards of education and training (see above attached PDF). Ever go to their website and see their promo?


    Its well done but takes subtle jabs at podiatry without really talking about us. They emphasize their training of how they are well versed in general medicine rather than being a focused specialty that only really has knowledge about the lower extremity. That is what AOFAS is really about.

    But yes I do not have direct experience. Neither do you. Essentially you are arguing with me about the ethics of my posts. This is an ethical argument you are projecting on me. Ok, yes, from an ethical point of view I should not comment on things I do not have experience on.

    But I like to live in reality.
     
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  23. I post PRN

    I post PRN 2+ Year Member

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    While I do agree that calling the fellow is a good idea, not many fellows will say, oh ya our program is terrible, don't come here. They will try and play it off as a great program, even if it isn't.

    But ankle breaker is speaking lots of truth, whether you want to admit it or not. For the most part, F&A ortho doesn't like DPM's. Then when you take in mind the names that are at Duke. Doesn't seem promising. Just saying, doesn't take Sherlock or Watson to figure that out. Just someone that is current on podiatry/Ortho relations.
     
  24. car36

    car36 7+ Year Member

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    That not surprising about the AOFAS, its a business and political organization. Everyone knows that. You could say the same thing about ACFAS and APMA battles that have gone on through the years. Your reality again is not actualized with experience.
     
  25. car36

    car36 7+ Year Member

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    F&A Ortho and DPM relationships are extremely regional. One person's experience in a couple of residency locations does not speak to the them all.
     
  26. Ankle Breaker

    Ankle Breaker Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    This ethical debate is stimulating. Please keep going.

    Please post something real based on your extensive experience. Be a regular contributor on the SDN forums rather than coming out of nowhere to pick a fight. You've said a lot tonight without really saying anything constructive for anyone looking for advice.
     
  27. Ankle Breaker

    Ankle Breaker Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    Why did well known attendings affiliated with the OFAC fellowship which trains DPM/MD/DO fellows leave or pull out of the program? Because they felt the pressure coming down from AOFAS and they opted to pull out of the program completely. One those attendings ended up becoming the president of AOFAS but he would not have been able to accomplish this if he still remained at the fellowship program that trains DPM fellows alongside MD/DO fellows. These attendings actually do respect podiatry but they chose to leave the program instead. The AOFAS agenda against podiatry is a real thing! "Some" DPMs and AOFAS might hug and kiss at AAOS or AOFAS meetings but...

    Is that Ortho FA MD/DO going to go to bat for you and for your surgical privileges when you apply for them at the hospital they currently work/scrub cases at too? Probably not...

    You might work with an ortho MD/DO right now in residency training who doesn't care because they are not political and doesn't let AOFAS influence who they train. That's great. But a lot of them do let AOFAS influence or eventually influence who they decide to train (DPM wise).
     
  28. dyk343

    dyk343 7+ Year Member

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    I've never once had an issue with an ortho or an ortho F&A specialist. They have all been very welcoming and let me perform a majority of the case when I work with them. We send them second opinions. They send us second opinions. It's professional around here.

    And just because some ortho F&A may trash talk podiatrist... There are an equal amount of podiatrists who trash talk ortho.

    In the end it all comes down to money.

    If you're good you are busy and probably don't care what the guy down the street is doing because you're busy enough with your own practice. If you are hurting a bit you might take a look at the guy down the road an see what trouble you can wrestle up.
     
  29. dtrack22

    dtrack22 7+ Year Member

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    Along these lines, I'm going to an area where podiatrists in cities 50 miles away are going to make it harder for me to get certain privileges than the ortho down the street will. It's the podiatrists that are going to make me jump through hoops where the local orthos are totally fine with granting me the same "core" foot and ankle privileges they have...which is everything.

    I have been (or will get) screwed far more often by Podiatrists than I will by Orthos. Primarily for this reason...
     
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