Double - Board Residencies

[Hkhan]

I've been having some trouble finding a comprehensive list on this topic, so I'm asking here.
What are the residencies that offer double boarding (not double/triple board programs like fp/psych), actual residencies in a specialty, like child neuro, in which one is double boarded in neurology and pediatrics, or 5-year vascular surgery, through which one is boarded in General and Vascular Surgery?

Here's a list - copy and paste and change as appropriate.

Multi - Board Programs
1. Child Neurology - Neurology & Pediatrics
2. Vascular Surgery - General & Vascular Surgery [6 - year Vascular Integrated → 4+2]
3. Plastics Surgery - General & Plastic Surgery [5 - year Plastic Integrated → 0+5]

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[AdmiralChz]

I've been having some trouble finding a comprehensive list on this topic, so I'm asking here.
What are the residencies that offer double boarding (not double/triple board programs like fp/psych), actual residencies in a specialty, like child neuro, in which one is double boarded in neurology and pediatrics, or 5-year vascular surgery, through which one is boarded in General and Vascular Surgery?

Here's a list - copy and paste and change as appropriate.

Multi - Board Programs
1. Child Neurology - Neurology & Pediatrics
2. Vascular Surgery - General & Vascular Surgery [6 - year Vascular Integrated → 4+2]
3. Plastics Surgery - General & Plastic Surgery [5 - year Plastic Integrated → 0+5]

I am not in any of these fields, but I do not believe you are boarded in Peds for 1 or Gen Surg for 2/3. What say you @Winged Scapula?

 

[Hkhan]

Quoted from @Ismet

"Peds Neuro is a whole different animal from Adult Neuro.

There are 2 ways to get to Child Neuro. The main way is by doing a categorical Child Neurology residency which includes a couple years of general pediatric training, some adult neurology training, and specific pediatric neurology training. There are also some programs that will accept people who have done a general pediatric residency for a Child Neurology fellowship.

As far as I know, someone who completes a neurology residency cannot go on to a child neurology fellowship. This is because Pediatric Neurologists are board certified in both pediatrics and neurology. Someone who just does a neurology residency would need to also do the required years of general pediatric training in order to be board-eligible for pediatrics."

Is he wrong?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I am not in any of these fields, but I do not believe you are boarded in Peds for 1 or Gen Surg for 2/3. What say you @Winged Scapula?

I am unaware of any integrated surgical programs which lead to a primary certification in general surgery; the American Board of Surgery has very stringent requirements about the training and most (if not all - leaving myself an out here) do not satisfy those.

Therefore, an Integrated Vascular program would lead to primary certification in Vascular Surgery; you would not be eligible for GS. Same for Integrated Plastics unless you are doing at least 5 years (60 months) of general surgery. See: Training Requirements | American Board of Surgery

There are "early specialization" programs (ESP) in Vascular Surgery which are "4+2" and these allow GS + Vascular certification; these are different from the true Integrated which do not have enough GS training. See: Training Pathways | American Board of Surgery These ESP tracks may exist in other ways/for other specialties as well.

The way to get primary certification in GS is to do a full GS residency and follow it with a fellowship/further training in a subspecialty which allows for a specialty certification. These are known as "independent tracks".

Finally, Im not in Peds or Neuro either but it appears that one way to do Child Neurology is a Neurology residency with a CAQ (certificate of additional qualification) in Child Neuro. This is not a separate board, but an additional training certificate a la Complex Surgical Oncology, Hand Surgery, etc. There appears to be an agreement between ABP and ABPN: Pediatrics-Neurology

 

[Ismet]

I am not in any of these fields, but I do not believe you are boarded in Peds for 1 or Gen Surg for 2/3. What say you @Winged Scapula?

Child Neuro programs (5 year programs) yield graduates who are board eligible for both Pediatrics and Neurology with Special Qualification in Child Neurology. All of the Child Neurologists I've worked with (10+) are boarded in both.

Finally, Im not in Peds or Neuro either but it appears that one way to do Child Neurology is a Neurology residency with a CAQ (certificate of additional qualification) in Child Neuro. This is not a separate board, but an additional training certificate a la Complex Surgical Oncology, Hand Surgery, etc. There appears to be an agreement between ABP and ABPN: Pediatrics-Neurology

As far as I know, you cannot get to Child Neuro from just a Neurology residency without doing any General Pediatric training.

More info: CoPS

 

[Winged Scapula]

Child Neuro programs (5 year programs) yield graduates who are board eligible for both Pediatrics and Neurology with Special Qualification in Child Neurology. All of the Child Neurologists I've worked with (10+) are boarded in both.



As far as I know, you cannot get to Child Neuro from just a Neurology residency without doing any General Pediatric training.

More info: CoPS

<shrug> I was quoting from the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN) that states that a certificate of added qualifications is available to neurologists who wish to practice Child Neuro:

Neurology - American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology

It's not a second BC (in Peds) but you can still technically practice Child Neuro

 

[Ismet]

<shrug> I was quoting from the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN) that states that a certificate of added qualifications is available to neurologists who wish to practice Child Neuro:

Neurology - American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology

It's not a second BC (in Peds) but you can still technically practice Child Neuro

One of the documents on that site outlines the specific training requirements in order to be eligible for that qualification. (https://www.abpn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/2017_Child_Neurology_CERT_IFA.pdf)

3 ways:
1. General Pediatrics - 2 years of gen peds residency + 3 years of neuro/child neuro. This is the typical pathway (the 5 year categorical programs, or applying to Child Neuro fellowships during a pediatric residency) and allows graduates to sit for both ABP and ABPN boards.
2. Gen Peds + Research - 1 year gen peds + 1 year neuroscience research + 3 years of neuro/child neuro. Graduates are not ABP eligible.
3. Gen Peds + IM - 1 year gen peds + 1 year IM + 3 years neuro/child neuro. Graduates are not ABP or ABIM eligible.

#1 is by far the most common pathway.

FWIW, the pediatric neurologists I know have the "Special Qualification in Child Neurology" listed under their board certifications, not Neurology. I think that's just what the term is for a board certification in Child Neuro.

 

[Ismet]

Also, moving to pre-med forums as this is not applicable to the Residency forums.

 

[AdmiralChz]

So what exactly is the question of the OP, he/she wants to know which residencies offer double boarding without being obviously labeled as such? Weird.

 

[Hkhan]

So what exactly is the question of the OP, he/she wants to know which residencies offer double boarding without being obviously labeled as such? Weird.

Yeah basically - there isn't a list of these and I want to know which programs (generally C) that double board.
Since I obviously know that programs named "double - board" or "triple - board" multi - board, I want to know which specialties multi - board that aren't named in such a way that I know they multi - board (In other words, it's easy to tell that "double board fp/psych" double boards but it's not as easy to tell that "child neuro" double boards).

 

[Planes2Doc]

I met two physicians that are Med/Peds. Both practice primary care. It's sort of mind boggling since going into family medicine would have given them the same scope of practice plus pregnant women.

 

[hamstergang]

I want to know which programs (generally C) that double board.

But why?

 

[Hkhan]

But why?

Why not?

 

[altblue]

Why not?

I mean, you're pre med right? Don't you have other things to be worrying about?

 

[Hkhan]

I mean, you're pre med right? Don't you have other things to be worrying about?

In hs though so not really


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[AnatomyGrey12]

In hs

Ah this explains the question

 

[altblue]

In hs though so not really


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Now that is some long-term planning

 

[Hkhan]

Ah this explains the question

Why?
I can reasonably see a premed asking this exact question.

 

[Hkhan]

Now that is some long-term planning

bsmd hopeful

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Why?
I can reasonably see a premed asking this exact question.

Because there is literally nothing to be gained from the answer. Pre-meds tend to not ask very good questions so I wouldn't base your idea of a good question off of that, just saying.

 

[21Rush12]

Why?
I can reasonably see a premed asking this exact question.

Anybody can decide to be premed, including ironically some of the dumbest people I have ever met. Not a good measuring stick.

There is so much that you don't understand from the place you're asking the question that it's impossible to give you a meaningful answer.

If you're worried about diversity of practice and versatility of knowledge, you don't need to be multiple-boarded for that. If you want to know everything about everything, you will be sorely disappointed.


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[Hkhan]

Because there is literally nothing to be gained from the answer. Pre-meds tend to not ask very good questions so I wouldn't base your idea of a good question off of that, just saying.

Anybody can decide to be premed, including ironically some of the dumbest people I have ever met. Not a good measuring stick.

There is so much that you don't understand from the place you're asking the question that it's impossible to give you a meaningful answer.

If you're worried about diversity of practice and versatility of knowledge, you don't need to be multiple-boarded for that. If you want to know everything about everything, you will be sorely disappointed.


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That's exactly what I mean -- pre - meds [tend to] ask these kinds of seeming useless questions.
I'm definitely not worried about my potential scope of practice, and I do understand how boarding works, and I don't believe I will want to match into a double board program (I'm not an MS3 though so obviously I don't really have much of an idea of my desired specialty) ... I'm just curious about this topic.
I'm currently looking into oto and integrated surgery subs (which I understand are very difficult to match into).