Do you think there will be a "bail out" for student loans

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akaykay

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So many students nowadays, from all majors, are taking out tremendous loans to pay for not only their education but personal expenses too. And with the job economy the way it is, many of them will default. The government is the primary lender of these loans.....which makes me wonder

Do you guys think that, in the future, taxpayers will be responsible for paying for these loans? Maybe a farfetched idea, but you never know.

p.s. thought this was video was interesting, although some information is inaccurate/exaggerated (paying $18/hr). Check out at 40-41 mins when they start talking about the pharmacy school hoax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE&feature=pyv&ad=6739540474&kw=wall st

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there will never be a bailout for students. the government wants you forced to work and be stable. so having debt is exactly what big business wants as well. it prevents people from leaving jobs and keeps the economy very stable and more predictable.

you will never in your life see a bailout for student loans or the general people.
 
I think so, because there are lots and lots of students taking on debt burdens that they obviously won't be able to pay off - I just say one of those "we are the 99%" people who took on $200K with the ambition to be a minister to GLBT teens - do you think he's going to be able to come up with the $1500 or so per month that the 25 year repayment plan requires? There are tons of people like that - and not just people with such obviously impractical career choices.

And I think that it will be for people who make considerably less money than we do, so it won't do us a damn bit of good.
 
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there will never be a bailout for students. the government wants you forced to work and be stable. so having debt is exactly what big business wants as well. it prevents people from leaving jobs and keeps the economy very stable and more predictable.

you will never in your life see a bailout for student loans or the general people.

this
 
So many students nowadays, from all majors, are taking out tremendous loans to pay for not only their education but personal expenses too. And with the job economy the way it is, many of them will default. The government is the primary lender of these loans.....which makes me wonder

Do you guys think that, in the future, taxpayers will be responsible for paying for these loans? Maybe a farfetched idea, but you never know.

p.s. thought this was video was interesting, although some information is inaccurate/exaggerated (paying $18/hr). Check out at 40-41 mins when they start talking about the pharmacy school hoax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE&feature=pyv&ad=6739540474&kw=wall st

lawl
no
 
there will never be a bailout for students. the government wants you forced to work and be stable. so having debt is exactly what big business wants as well. it prevents people from leaving jobs and keeps the economy very stable and more predictable.

you will never in your life see a bailout for student loans or the general people.

Well, there's IBR...
 
To me IBR doesn't seem worth it at all unless your stupid enough to take out 200K for pharmacy school.
 
If you become unemployed/underemployed and are having a hard time making ends-meat, you might find it "worth it".

How exactly do you make ends-meat? Is it like rump roast? :p

On topic:
The best I think we'll see for a "bail out" is what we've seen in the past:
- Government takeover of all backed loans. They used to be underwritten / serviced privately, but backed by the government. The terms were not standardized, so some people got really raw deals. I think this is the closest you'll have to what looks like a "bail out" for normal people - most of the so-called mortgage bail out was for banks & financial institutions, and they don't have so much of a stake in student loans any more. The closest equivalent to what got bailed out before is the education department. They'll already garnish your wages if you default on the government-backed loans and it's hard (as I understand) to get them on a bankruptcy, so I'm guessing the student loan write-off rate is very low. Unless the education department gets raped for money by a bad budget, I don't know why they'd need to "bail it out."

- Congress voting to lower interest rates on student loans in the near future. (From when they vote, not from now.) I think there's a reasonable possibility of lower interest rates in the coming years too, but I don't know if it'll come in time for us. Look at prime rate / treasury rates at nearly zero now - they were offering 7-something % back when prime was about the same. Either the education department thinks prime will rebound quickly, or they're trying to bilk money, or there will be negative pressure on those interest rates. I think there's negative pressure, although there are flaws with my comparing student loan rates to prime rate.

- Increased budget funding for Pell grants, other scholarships, etc. Pell grants are the biggest - but they don't really help us graduate students.

- I doubt we'll see an increase in the total amount of government backed loans or a shift towards more subsidized loans vs unsubsidized at least in the short term, but it is a tool they have at their disposal.

- Require more realistic credit counseling (so college students can be more educated consumers). It's a struggle to explain this sort of credit to college kids that may or may not have a good handle on the value of money vs work, expected income, realistic budgeting, and ROI. At least the counseling explains the consequences of defaulting clearly now. I'd like to have the BLS website pimped more when people are trying to make career choices. While money isn't everything, it is necessary to understand how much you can expect to make to understand how much you can afford to be trained. A serious problem is that a lot of the ROI / expected income can be like trying to look through a crystal ball - pharmacy circa 2003 is a perfect example. Nobody really knows what the future holds, especially not a lot of those junior college advisors.
 
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That takes 25 years though...in 25 years you'll be old and ready to retire. LOL...

I'm not sure how it works for pharmacists but for physicians you can do IBR for 10 years working for a public service and academic positions at public universities qualify.

10-YEAR PUBLIC SERVICE LOAN FORGIVENESS — If you work in public service, on-time, full monthly payments you make under IBR (or certain other repayment plans) while employed full-time in a public service job will count toward the 120 monthly payments that are required to receive loan forgiveness through the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. Through this program, you may be eligible to have the remaining balance of your Direct Loans forgiven after you have made the 120 qualifying as described above. The Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program is available only for Direct Loans.
 
yeah i just realized that, news to me. though you can use IBR to lower your payments towards the 120!

For sure! I was bummed when I didn't qualify. Stupid private loan.
 
I'm not sure how it works for pharmacists but for physicians you can do IBR for 10 years working for a public service and academic positions at public universities qualify.

PSLF works the same for everyone, from physicians to pharmacists to teachers to librarians, as long as you work non-profit/gov't.

One of the reasons I'm definitely doing a residency. 10 years paying 15% of "disposable" income I can live with. Sure beats somehow trying to pay off >$300k in federal loans over 30 years. I call that a bailout.
 
PSLF works the same for everyone, from physicians to pharmacists to teachers to librarians, as long as you work non-profit/gov't.

One of the reasons I'm definitely doing a residency. 10 years paying 15% of "disposable" income I can live with. Sure beats somehow trying to pay off >$300k in federal loans over 30 years. I call that a bailout.

Same boat here. I think after IBR, the govt will end up forgiving almost 500k on my loans. I call that a bail out
 
Same boat here. I think after IBR, the govt will end up forgiving almost 500k on my loans. I call that a bail out

Finally I found someone who's doing the same thing! Most of the people I talk to don't know about it or will have <$100k in loans (tuition at my school is <$15k/yr).

Between my wife and I, the 15% will probably not even cover the interest accruing and the total amount forgiven will be in the $500k ballpark for us too. I don't see how people don't see this as a bailout.. unless they don't qualify. But then, you probably don't "need" a bailout if can't qualify.
 
Finally I found someone who's doing the same thing! Most of the people I talk to don't know about it or will have <$100k in loans (tuition at my school is <$15k/yr).

Between my wife and I, the 15% will probably not even cover the interest accruing and the total amount forgiven will be in the $500k ballpark for us too. I don't see how people don't see this as a bailout.. unless they don't qualify. But then, you probably don't "need" a bailout if can't qualify.

Just make sure to set yourself up for several years before hand as far as reducing assets, or the IRS will take money from you on taxable forgiveness. Personally I'll probably finish with around 250k in loans, and over the 25 year IBR horizon, they will accumulate around 400k in unpaid interest capitalization
 
What's the interest rate on your private loan? They discouraged us from getting them because of the variable rate most were offering, but I imagine the rate is lower than the Grad Plus at 8.5%

3% fixed. So yeah, I'm not going to gripe too much. I graduated at the end of the golden APR days.
 
Just make sure to set yourself up for several years before hand as far as reducing assets, or the IRS will take money from you on taxable forgiveness. Personally I'll probably finish with around 250k in loans, and over the 25 year IBR horizon, they will accumulate around 400k in unpaid interest capitalization

Yeah I saw that they tax you on what is forgiven as income :eek:. So if you have $500k forgiven, that's about a $160k federal tax bill? I hear they're trying to get this changed with the Dept. of Education, but with our current fiscal problems I don't see this happening anytime soon. I'm curious, how do you reduce the taxable forgiveness by reducing assets?

The good thing is the 10 year PSLF is tax-free! Which is what I'm planning on doing. I know this doesn't help much for the 25 year IBR people, but just something to consider.
 
Yeah I saw that they tax you on what is forgiven as income :eek:. So if you have $500k forgiven, that's about a $160k federal tax bill? I hear they're trying to get this changed with the Dept. of Education, but with our current fiscal problems I don't see this happening anytime soon. I'm curious, how do you reduce the taxable forgiveness by reducing assets?

The good thing is the 10 year PSLF is tax-free! Which is what I'm planning on doing. I know this doesn't help much for the 25 year IBR people, but just something to consider.

The extent to which you have to pay taxes on this type of income is dependent on how financially solvent (legal definition = asset to debt ratio, in this case) you are. For example, if you refinance your house into cash and stash it away, sell your car during the year that your bill comes due, and have a smart, alternative plan for retirement (offshore), and say you only have 20k in assets when that bill comes due, you will only owe the IRS 20k. On the other hand if you have 500k in assets, you will be on the hook for that full 160k tax bill. Even in this worst case scenario, the IRS is much more flexible in working out repayment plans and reduced payments than student loan lenders are. Ironically it is much easier to get around or get out of an income tax bill than it is student loans.

Another option would be to put the mortgage or car in a relative or friend's name who is not directly financially connected to you.

As far as I can tell, the reason they do this is so that people dont just declare bankruptcy and waste everyone's time to get out from underneath taxes on debt forgiveness. Instead, if you can't afford to pay them, you basically don't have to, to the extent that you are insolvent (underwater on assets vs debt).

I plan on looking into PSLF, perhaps working in local government or teaching at a community college, if I can't find a non profit hospital job.
 
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You also make lower payments during the repayment period. I wouldn't call it a bailout, but it is better than nothing.

I don't understand WHY anyone would want to do that. Personally I think it is best to get those loans paid off ASAP. Meaning work hard live more frugally for the first 2 or 3 years and get EVERYTHING paid off.

Why wait for 25 years? R you crazy?
 
I'm not sure how it works for pharmacists but for physicians you can do IBR for 10 years working for a public service and academic positions at public universities qualify.


Do you want your options to be limited to ONLY gov. jobs? Again, I am not sure if that is worth it. Taking out 200K (more than you need) and then limit yourself to government paying jobs in the future to get out of paying those loans. I am not sure if that is the best idea. Or very ethical either.
 
Do you want your options to be limited to ONLY gov. jobs? Again, I am not sure if that is worth it. Taking out 200K (more than you need) and then limit yourself to government paying jobs in the future to get out of paying those loans. I am not sure if that is the best idea. Or very ethical either.

PSLF isn't just limited to govt jobs.

As for planning to take an exorbitant amount of loans with the goal of getting them forgiven after 10 years, I do agree that it's not ethical. However, the fact that PSLF doesn't forgive private loans is a bit of a safeguard.
 
I don't understand WHY anyone would want to do that. Personally I think it is best to get those loans paid off ASAP. Meaning work hard live more frugally for the first 2 or 3 years and get EVERYTHING paid off.

Why wait for 25 years? R you crazy?

Do you not understand IBR? It is for people who cannot get a well paying job after graduation. The theory is, you pay what you can afford and after 25 years if the loan is not paid off, the debt is forgiven.

I am not claiming it is a smart move, but it is like catastrophic coverage - worst case type stuff. If you can't get a good job, it is a bail out.
 
Do you not understand IBR? It is for people who cannot get a well paying job after graduation. The theory is, you pay what you can afford and after 25 years if the loan is not paid off, the debt is forgiven.

I am not claiming it is a smart move, but it is like catastrophic coverage - worst case type stuff. If you can't get a good job, it is a bail out.

Well, I guess that is a good thing...with the job market of pharmacy being so bad we might all need it. LOL...
 
Do you want your options to be limited to ONLY gov. jobs? Again, I am not sure if that is worth it. Taking out 200K (more than you need) and then limit yourself to government paying jobs in the future to get out of paying those loans. I am not sure if that is the best idea. Or very ethical either.
I tend to agree. The job market is bad enough as it is. What will you do if you can't even get a public service job?

PSLF is a very poor financial plan for taking out what is in my opinion, excessive amounts of debt. But wait... did you [not referring to SHC1984] ever have a financial plan in the first place???
 
Do you want your options to be limited to ONLY gov. jobs? Again, I am not sure if that is worth it. Taking out 200K (more than you need) and then limit yourself to government paying jobs in the future to get out of paying those loans. I am not sure if that is the best idea. Or very ethical either.

You say "ONLY gov. jobs" but that includes academic positions which don't exactly pay chump change. Furthermore, how can it possibly be said that using this program to pay off loans while providing a public service isn't ethical? That's a pretty weird thing to say.
 
You say "ONLY gov. jobs" but that includes academic positions which don't exactly pay chump change. Furthermore, how can it possibly be said that using this program to pay off loans while providing a public service isn't ethical? That's a pretty weird thing to say.

Being ethical means you are HONEST and you don't CHEAT anyone. Trying to take out loans and finding a way to NOT pay them back/forcing other people (tax payers) to pay it back for you IS STEALING and not ethical. That's the same as just stealing tax money from the government. Last time I check stealing isn't ethical.

Being ethical means you pay back every penny you borrow. If you can't afford to pay back 200K, then just take out what you can afford to pay back.

I am not directing this at YOU b/c I don't know how much you are taking out or anything. But I am tired of hearing people on here saying. "OMG, lets take out 500K or more and then make the government pay for it all!!!! OMG I am so SMART!!!!" :thumbdown:rolleyes: "Or OMG, how can I cheat the system while stealing as much money as I can????"
 
Being ethical means you are HONEST and you don't CHEAT anyone. Trying to take out loans and finding a way to NOT pay them back/forcing other people (tax payers) to pay it back for you IS STEALING and not ethical. That's the same as just stealing tax money from the government. Last time I check stealing isn't ethical.

Where does the government get that money? By stealing from people. You see, anything the government does is unethical by that definition. Is "stealing" from a thief unethical?
 
Being ethical means you pay back every penny you borrow. If you can't afford to pay back 200K, then just take out what you can afford to pay back.

I am not directing this at YOU b/c I don't know how much you are taking out or anything. But I am tired of hearing people on here saying. "OMG, lets take out 500K or more and then make the government pay for it all!!!! OMG I am so SMART!!!!" :thumbdown:rolleyes: "Or OMG, how can I cheat the system while stealing as much money as I can????"

Like Pharmacy Kid said, this program doesn't apply to private loans. There is a limit to how much can be taken out in federal loans (cost of attendance) that is designed to prevent abuse. Does it work? Does anything the government does work?

If you're following the rules and guidelines of the program and not lying, I don't see how it is unethical. It is completely legal and allowed by the rules to take out the cost of attendance with a plan to be a public servant and take advantage of the benefits of the program. They designed the program to give an incentive for people (including health care professionals) to join the public sector. No one is being "dishonest" by using this program. It was designed with the specific purpose of forgiving loans.

And this wasn't even Obama's idea, Bush signed it into law.
 
But I am tired of hearing people on here saying. "OMG, lets take out 500K or more and then make the government pay for it all!!!! OMG I am so SMART!!!!"

Er, what pharmacy school allows you to take out $500K in loans?

That's after interest / interest converted to principle. Your $200K example is going to turn into the $500K+. Actually, IIRC, closer to $120K will turn into $500K.

Anyway, just clarifying. Don't mind me. Please continue.
 
To me IBR doesn't seem worth it at all unless your stupid enough to take out 200K for pharmacy school.

I'm not sure why you would consider someone stupid for taking out a lot of student money. I borrowed 147K, does that make me stupid?

Some people don't have the financial support that perhaps you have. I went through pharmacy school married with two kids. My wife stayed at home, because what she was pulling in every week just covered child care expenses.

If I didn't take out loans, I would still be bartender and be working every night until 2-3am. Some people just need to borrow a lot of money.
 
I don't understand WHY anyone would want to do that. Personally I think it is best to get those loans paid off ASAP. Meaning work hard live more frugally for the first 2 or 3 years and get EVERYTHING paid off.

Why wait for 25 years? R you crazy?

It depends, you have to think about whether the loss in interest on a loan is greater than the potential growth that extra money would provide over the length of the loan term.

Also, there are some loop-holes that can be very beneficial with the IBR option. Lets say you own your own business, your business can pay you whatever it wants. There is no law that states as a business owner you are required to take a certain income. If you are married you can employ your spouse, maybe as the CEO of your company, and pay them the a great salary, then file your taxes separately. Your student loan payments drops to near nothing, after 25 years the remainder is written off. You will have to pay taxes on whatever has been written off, but chances are you will come out very much ahead even after the hit on taxes.

Just a thought.
 
I'm not sure why you would consider someone stupid for taking out a lot of student money. I borrowed 147K, does that make me stupid?

Some people don't have the financial support that perhaps you have. I went through pharmacy school married with two kids. My wife stayed at home, because what she was pulling in every week just covered child care expenses.

If I didn't take out loans, I would still be bartender and be working every night until 2-3am. Some people just need to borrow a lot of money.

There are no hard an fast rules. There are lots of "gray area" (the most dreaded words in therapeutics courses). :)

But the basic rule of thumb given out by financial advisers are that you shouldn't borrow more student loans than 1x your expected income. Same general rule applies to no more than 2-3x of your income when you buy a house. Can people pay more? Sure, but some people might be better off, for example, doing a Ph.D instead, takes an extra year on average, but no loans and even gets paid instead, comes out making the same salary; or Anesthetist assistant, cost $100k + 2 years with a B.S, and make $150K/yr. Just somethings to think about.
 
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