Do you think I have big red flag in my application besides my GPA/MCAT?

[Chromatic543]

So I have completed 18 secondaries so far (will complete around 22), and I have so far gotten four rejections and one deferral. I stand at a 3.20 cGPA and 3.21 sGPA with a 502 MCAT (126-124-126-126). I also have 1000 hours of volunteering/clinical experience and multiple ECs such as student government, clubs, etc.

My rejections = RVU-Utah, PNWU, KCU, and BCOM (MOST SHOCKING)
My deferral = WVSOM

I am starting to wonder if I have any other big, red flags that are putting adcoms off. People with lower stats have recently gotten interviews at schools, while I still wait without an interview.

Besides my first couple of years of school where I got around 7 Ws, I don't see where else I would have problems. I have a strong upward trend on both my cGPA and sGPA. I guess I have taken some easier classes at times to fix up my cGPA and sGPA which were both very low at first, but I'm not sure why that would be an issue.

Another issue that came up is the fact that perhaps it could be a bad letter? I'm not really sure what to do.

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[Cardboard101]

What subsection is the 124?

 

[Chromatic543]

What subsection is the 124?

CARS

 

[workaholic181]

So I have completed 18 secondaries so far (will complete around 22), and I have so far gotten four rejections and one deferral. I stand at a 3.20 cGPA and 3.21 sGPA with a 502 MCAT (126-124-126-126). I also have 1000 hours of volunteering/clinical experience and multiple ECs such as student government, clubs, etc.

My rejections = RVU-Utah, PNWU, KCU, and BCOM (MOST SHOCKING)
My deferral = WVSOM

I am starting to wonder if I have any other big, red flags that are putting adcoms off. People with lower stats have recently gotten interviews at schools, while I still wait without an interview.

Besides my first couple of years of school where I got around 7 Ws, I don't see where else I would have problems. I have a strong upward trend on both my cGPA and sGPA. I guess I have taken some easier classes at times to fix up my cGPA and sGPA which were both very low at first, but I'm not sure why that would be an issue.

Another issue that came up is the fact that perhaps it could be a bad letter? I'm not really sure what to do.

It's still early. I think the rejections you've had are likely due to a combo of low MCAT and gpa. The Ws aren't ideal but I have a few myself and they haven't proven to be an issue.

Just keep doing what you've been doing. I know the waiting is tough but this cycle isn't over for you by any means. Formulate a back up plan to be safe (how you can improve for next time) and keep your head up.

Good luck OP!

 

[MissAnonLot]

I suggest calling the schools and asking for some feedback. Now they might not give you an honest answers as to why they rejected you, but it might help.

 

[rufflev]

I believe KCUCOM screens at c/sGPA at 3.25, so technically if your stats listed above are accurate, that's one less rejection that you can worry about.

 

[Chromatic543]

I believe KCUCOM screens at c/sGPA at 3.25, so technically if your stats listed above are accurate, that's one less rejection that you can worry about.

Yeah I'm not worried about KCU. The one that got me the most was BCOM. Considering that they are a new school and the decision even shocked Goro, I am not really sure what went wrong. I hope one of my letter writers didn't sabotage me.

I am currently looking at one community college non-science class for this quarter (since it is late), and then hopefully DIY-post bacc at a state school taking on upper division science courses for Winter and Spring quarter...maybe even next Fall while I'm in the application cycle again. That will amount to 26 semester units.

Also thinking about retaking the MCAT again (502; 126-124-126-126). I am already starting to practice my worst [CARS] section. I want this more than anything, and am willing to go through it all again.

 

[Patrick Bateman's Brother]

Yeah I'm not worried about KCU. The one that got me the most was BCOM. Considering that they are a new school and the decision even shocked Goro, I am not really sure what went wrong. I hope one of my letter writers didn't sabotage me.

I am currently looking at one community college non-science class for this quarter (since it is late), and then hopefully DIY-post bacc at a state school taking on upper division science courses for Winter and Spring quarter...maybe even next Fall while I'm in the application cycle again. That will amount to 26 semester units.

Also thinking about retaking the MCAT again (502; 126-124-126-126). I am already starting to practice my worst [CARS] section. I want this more than anything, and am willing to go through it all again.

Burn your boats and keep your eyes forward. Worst case scenario, make yourself a better candidate for next cycle.

 

[Chromatic543]

Burn your boats and keep your eyes forward. Worst case scenario, make yourself a better candidate for next cycle.

Agreed. It was a difficult decision to forget about what happened, but the only choice I have is to stay positive and strengthen my application.

 

[IWillMakeIt1]

Your mcat is fine for DO, some DO schools screens out applicants at 3.3 GPA

 

[Coltuna]

For reference, I've only heard from 3 schools. All the rest have been completely silent. LizzyM 67-70.

 

[tutorthepeople]

Hi Chromatic, did you have a strong personal statement?

 

[avhopeful]

So I have completed 18 secondaries so far (will complete around 22), and I have so far gotten four rejections and one deferral. I stand at a 3.20 cGPA and 3.21 sGPA with a 502 MCAT (126-124-126-126). I also have 1000 hours of volunteering/clinical experience and multiple ECs such as student government, clubs, etc.

My rejections = RVU-Utah, PNWU, KCU, and BCOM (MOST SHOCKING)
My deferral = WVSOM

I am starting to wonder if I have any other big, red flags that are putting adcoms off. People with lower stats have recently gotten interviews at schools, while I still wait without an interview.

Besides my first couple of years of school where I got around 7 Ws, I don't see where else I would have problems. I have a strong upward trend on both my cGPA and sGPA. I guess I have taken some easier classes at times to fix up my cGPA and sGPA which were both very low at first, but I'm not sure why that would be an issue.

Another issue that came up is the fact that perhaps it could be a bad letter? I'm not really sure what to do.

You still need to hear back from 14-18 programs before calling it quits this cycle. It's not over til it's over! Rejections can come in faster than II.

 

[MissAnonLot]

Your mcat is fine for DO, some DO schools screens out applicants at 3.3 GPA

Which ones? The only one I know that screen this high is KCU which is at 3.25

 

[Chromatic543]

You still need to hear back from 14-18 programs before calling it quits this cycle. It's not over til it's over! Rejections can come in faster than II.

I understand. However, I feel that it is better for me to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. The last few months I have been a nervous wreck sitting around and waiting for interview invites. These rejections upset me more than they should have. I will try not to think about the current applications, and am applying for a winter structured post-bacc which I will continue doing in Spring, Summer, and Fall of next year if need be. I will show the Medical Schools that I am capable, and will strengthen my application. Furthermore, I am getting more shadowing hours, volunteer hours, and will look into non-clinical volunteering. IF I do get an interview invite AND an acceptance, then great! If not, at least I have done something to head in the right direction.

Thank you for your post!

 

[Chromatic543]

Hi Chromatic, did you have a strong personal statement?

I believe my personal statement was strong. I worked on it for two months, had multiple people including medical students review it. I even had a Harvard professor go over it, and help me make it stronger. It is a VERY personal statement.

 

[CJhooper123]

I believe my personal statement was strong. I worked on it for two months, had multiple people including medical students review it. I even had a Harvard professor go over it, and help me make it stronger. It is a VERY personal statement.

Sounds like it was well-constructed - pulling for you this cycle! Hopefully it works out.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Reaching out to you again-- it's still early! Please don't lose hope. I am sure it is super frustrating to get a bunch of rejections and no IIs yet, but there is honestly no rhyme or reason to this process. You have a borderline GPA/MCAT combo, so schools might be holding off on sending you IIs until they interview those who they feel are "more qualified" or however way they choose to phrase it. At the end of the day, though, if you don't get an II until January but then are accepted somewhere, does it really matter whether you were top of their list or bottom? Your stats are not terrible, and I think you'll have luck somewhere this cycle.

I definitely wouldn't worry about the 124, especially since it was in CARS. If it helps, I have a 123 in chem/phys and have several interviews. Your GPAs and 7 Ws are what is hurting you (if anything is hurting you).

Try to stay positive! I know it's hard, and I know it's probably annoying getting advice from people who have IIs and/or acceptances already, but anyone who tries to understand this process and II timeline and all that crap is wasting their time.

 

[edgerock24]

Your GPA's are below average. Your MCAT is ~average.

Don't lose hope. Let schools interview their 'first choices.' I expect you to receive multiple II's within the next few months.

Make sure you've applied to: LUCOM, UIWSOM, ARCOM, ACOM, LECOM, WCUCOM, KYCOM.

 

[Chromatic543]

Your GPA's are below average. Your MCAT is ~average.

Don't lose hope. Let schools interview their 'first choices.' I expect you to receive multiple II's within the next few months.

Make sure you've applied to: LUCOM, UIWSOM, ARCOM, ACOM, LECOM, WCUCOM, KYCOM.

Is LUCOM really a good idea? I heard really bad things about that place.

I am going to finish my secondary for UIWSOM soon.

I am not sure about ARCOM. Debating on it.

Applied to ACOM

Applied to both LECOM campuses

 

[Coltuna]

Is LUCOM really a good idea? I heard really bad things about that place.

I am going to finish my secondary for UIWSOM soon.

I am not sure about ARCOM. Debating on it.

Applied to ACOM

Applied to both LECOM campuses

Being picky comes after multiple acceptances. Absolutely apply to these 2. Once you're accepted to 2+ schools then you can decide if going to LUCOM is a good idea and decide if you're sure about ARCOM.

 

[MTRN406]

Being picky comes after multiple acceptances. Absolutely apply to these 2. Once you're accepted to 2+ schools then you can decide if going to LUCOM is a good idea and decide if you're sure about ARCOM.

I rather take another year and strengthen my application than apply to LUCOM and risk it being my only acceptance.

 

[Coltuna]

I rather take another year and strengthen my application than apply to LUCOM and risk it being my only acceptance.

That's absurd.

 

[ReapPremed]

LUCOM has a bad reputation on SDN because it's Christian and very conservative. Most people who interview there have said it's a lovely place. You sound like you want to get into a medical school in the United States and move on with your life. Got nothing to lose but an afternoon of writing essays and $100 if you apply.

 

[Coltuna]

LUCOM has a bad reputation on SDN because it's Christian and very conservative. Most people who interview there have said it's a lovely place. You sound like you want to get into a medical school in the United States and move on with your life. Got nothing to lose but an afternoon of writing essays and $100 if you apply.

^ this. Let's say hypothetically that LUCOM would've been your only acceptance. You think $100 is a lot now but what's that compared to the $150k+ of life earnings you're missing out on by letting your pride dictate your decision. Not to mention the risk of applying as a reapplicant next year-- a designation that automatically puts you at a lower chance of acceptance statistically.

 

[MTRN406]

^ this. Let's say hypothetically that LUCOM would've been your only acceptance. You think $100 is a lot now but what's that compared to the $150k+ of life earnings you're missing out on by letting your pride dictate your decision. Not to mention the risk of applying as a reapplicant next year-- a designation that automatically puts you at a lower chance of acceptance statistically.

I'd gladly forfeit 150K for the privilege of not being associated with Liberty University.

 

[Coltuna]

I'd gladly forfeit 150K for the privilege of not being associated with Liberty University.

If OP is gunning for competitive specialty, I agree. That's not specific to LUCOM though; more DO in general. If he/she is with the majority of DO student doing primary care, where they went for Med school won't be rate limiting factor at any point in their career really.

 

[edgerock24]

Being picky comes after multiple acceptances. Absolutely apply to these 2. Once you're accepted to 2+ schools then you can decide if going to LUCOM is a good idea and decide if you're sure about ARCOM.

Yep. One needs at least a single acceptance before being picky.

I rather take another year and strengthen my application than apply to LUCOM and risk it being my only acceptance.

This isn't good advice.

 

[Chromatic543]

If OP is gunning for competitive specialty, I agree. That's not specific to LUCOM though; more DO in general. If he/she is with the majority of DO student doing primary care, where they went for Med school won't be rate limiting factor at any point in their career really.

Luckily my interests lie within Internal Medicine. Primary Care is Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, and Pediatrics?

Although Otolaryngology would be nice, but that's probably out of my reach.

 

[Coltuna]

Luckily my interests lie within Internal Medicine. Primary Care is Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, and Pediatrics?

Although Otolaryngology would be nice, but that's probably out of my reach.

Yeah primary care definitely includes IM.

 

[Chromatic543]

LUCOM has a bad reputation on SDN because it's Christian and very conservative. Most people who interview there have said it's a lovely place. You sound like you want to get into a medical school in the United States and move on with your life. Got nothing to lose but an afternoon of writing essays and $100 if you apply.

There was also some problem the the Dean, right? I can see why LUCOM would have a bad reputation because of that. Is UIWSOM not in the same ballpark?

 

[ReapPremed]

Back to your app you did mention you needed to really nag one doctor about writing an LOR in a previous post I believe? Not that you did anything wrong, but any kind of reluctance when it comes to LORs can be a bad sign. Most people in academia understand that how to write a LOR and will do you the courtesy of refusing if they cannot say anything nice. And some will still tank students. I'd be Leary of what a physician, who may not have the same interest in mentorship as a college professor, would do if he was luke warm about you. You might want to get a new D.O. letter.

I'm sorry this process has been so stressful. Being in post-bacc limbo is not fun.

 

[SLU Student]

LUCOM isn't for everyone; however, if it were my only acceptance, I would still take it.

There is absolutely no reason for you not to apply to ARCOM. You should definitely go do that ASAP.

UIWSOM is a devout Catholic university, but aside from it being religious, it is NOT in the same ball park as LUCOM. Its D.O. school is new, but UIWSOM already has several well established professional health programs. You should definitely finish up your app here ASAP.

Like many previous posters said, this is not the time to be choosy.

I wish you the best of luck OP.

 

[Peach Newport]

Not to be an ass, but is it really that shocking that you're getting several rejections with both a below average gpa AND a below average mcat? It kind of boggles my mind that this is suprising to you.

I don't understand why SDN tells a 502/3.2 student "you're good for DO." I know lots of students with much better stats who got no acceptances to any DO schools. For a 502/3.2, statistics say that those numbers are "possible, but still not likely." The problem is that lots of those lucky few post a lot on SDN. At DOs, Lots of matriculating students have lowish GPAs, and lots of have bad mcats, but very few students have both.

"Apply to the New Schools" does not mean "you'll get multiple acceptances because they're desperate." It means that your chances of getting at least one acceptance will be marginally higher if you focus on them.

I'm sorry if I sound bitter, but the fact that this is surprising to you irks me. Really, you're surprised that BCOM rejected you? Even a new DO school has an acceptance rate of like 5% tops. I applied very broadly to DOs with 34 mcat and a 3.2 gpa. I barely even got an interview because it turns out that a 3.2 GPA is BAD. I had to spend 1.5 years working my butt off in a masters program to get into medical school.

There's no red flag. Just bad numbers.

Okay, angry bitter rant over.

3-4 rejections at this point means nothing. Even the best applicants will get several rejections early on in the interview cycle - it doesn't matter which schools rejected you (I was convinced UNECOM would interview me. They didnt.) You have NO idea what reasons they had. Plus, the rejections usually come first. If you applied early, your IIs should arrive September-November. Hell, I got 3 IIs after February.

 

[Chromatic543]

Not to be an ass, but is it really that shocking that you're getting several rejections with both a below average gpa AND a below average mcat? It kind of boggles my mind that this is suprising to you.

I don't understand why SDN tells a 502/3.2 student "you're good for DO." I know lots of students with much better stats who got no acceptances to any DO schools. For a 502/3.2, statistics say that those numbers are "possible, but still not likely." The problem is that lots of those lucky few post a lot on SDN. At DOs, Lots of matriculating students have lowish GPAs, and lots of have bad mcats, but very few students have both.

"Apply to the New Schools" does not mean "you'll get multiple acceptances because they're desperate." It means that your chances of getting at least one acceptance will be marginally higher if you focus on them.

I'm sorry if I sound bitter, but the fact that this is surprising to you irks me. Really, you're surprised that BCOM rejected you? Even a new DO school has an acceptance rate of like 5% tops. I applied very broadly to DOs with 34 mcat and a 3.2 gpa. I barely even got an interview because it turns out that a 3.2 GPA is BAD. I had to spend 1.5 years working my butt off in a masters program to get into medical school.

There's no red flag. Just bad numbers.

Okay, angry bitter rant over.

3-4 rejections at this point means nothing. Even the best applicants will get several rejections early on in the interview cycle - it doesn't matter which schools rejected you (I was convinced UNECOM would interview me. They didnt.) You have NO idea what reasons they had. Plus, the rejections usually come first. If you applied early, your IIs should arrive September-November. Hell, I got 3 IIs after February.

I mean I don't blame you for telling me the bare bones truth. I messed up, and now I have to face the consequences. I am going to stay hopeful, BUT am also going to start a formal post-bacc in January to improve. I applied and am waiting for that in addition to an interview.

Also, I thought my MCAT was average for DOs, not that it matters here.

 

[Chromatic543]

Back to your app you did mention you needed to really nag one doctor about writing an LOR in a previous post I believe? Not that you did anything wrong, but any kind of reluctance when it comes to LORs can be a bad sign. Most people in academia understand that how to write a LOR and will do you the courtesy of refusing if they cannot say anything nice. And some will still tank students. I'd be Leary of what a physician, who may not have the same interest in mentorship as a college professor, would do if he was luke warm about you. You might want to get a new D.O. letter.

I'm sorry this process has been so stressful. Being in post-bacc limbo is not fun.

That is what I was thinking. Funny thing is that I mentioned it once, and they were good with it. They even brought it up again, but then became reluctant out of nowhere. I have a DO (Sports Medicine) lined up to shadow, so I will have more DO shadowing hours, and maybe a better letter if I have no luck this cycle.

 

[Chromatic543]

LUCOM isn't for everyone; however, if it were my only acceptance, I would still take it.

There is absolutely no reason for you not to apply to ARCOM. You should definitely go do that ASAP.

UIWSOM is a devout Catholic university, but aside from it being religious, it is NOT in the same ball park as LUCOM. Its D.O. school is new, but UIWSOM already has several well established professional health programs. You should definitely finish up your app here ASAP.

Like many previous posters said, this is not the time to be choosy.

I wish you the best of luck OP.

Thank you! I will finish up my UIWSOM application and add ARCOM.

 

[Peach Newport]

I mean I don't blame you for telling me the bare bones truth. I messed up, and now I have to face the consequences. I am going to stay hopeful, BUT am also going to start a formal post-bacc in January to improve. I applied and am waiting for that in addition to an interview.

Also, I thought my MCAT was average for DOs, not that it matters here.

Your mcat is on the low end of average for DO. Someone with a 3.5+/502 would be what I'd call "good for DO." The bigger problem is your GPA.

In general, DOs are much more forgiving of a poor MCAT than a low GPA. Someone with a 3.6/500 is going to have much better luck than, say, a 515/3.1.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Also thinking about retaking the MCAT again (502; 126-124-126-126). I am already starting to practice my worst [CARS] section. I want this more than anything, and am willing to go through it all again.

Your MCAT isn't the problem, it's the GPA.

Your mcat is fine for DO, some DO schools screens out applicants at 3.3 GPA

No school screens that high.

Is LUCOM really a good idea? I heard really bad things about that place.

I am going to finish my secondary for UIWSOM soon.

I am not sure about ARCOM. Debating on it.

Applied to ACOM

Applied to both LECOM campuses

Apply to ARCOM, it has set itself up to be very successful. Just make sure you click on ARCOM and not NYIT-AR as you don't want to go there. I would not apply to LUCOM.

That's absurd.

LUCOM has a bad reputation on SDN because it's Christian and very conservative. Most people who interview there have said it's a lovely place. You sound like you want to get into a medical school in the United States and move on with your life. Got nothing to lose but an afternoon of writing essays and $100 if you apply.

^ this. Let's say hypothetically that LUCOM would've been your only acceptance. You think $100 is a lot now but what's that compared to the $150k+ of life earnings you're missing out on by letting your pride dictate your decision. Not to mention the risk of applying as a reapplicant next year-- a designation that automatically puts you at a lower chance of acceptance statistically.

Yep. One needs at least a single acceptance before being picky.



This isn't good advice.

This advice is terrible and the above 4 quotes are simply naive. I was there and I understand the idea of "I'll do anything for an acceptance anywhere" but it is wrong, and can (and does) lead to many a med student hating their life. There are medical schools that simply will not fit you as a student, and to apply to those schools knowing you don't really like it that much is stupid and has the potential to do some life altering damage. Medical school is brutal, something that you can't really understand until you are in it, and students who hate their school on top of all the stress will be at risk for very severe depression and I can guarantee that student will perform very poorly. No one should ever, ever apply to a school they would only attend because "well it will make me a doctor." Take another year, make yourself a better applicant, and reapply.

Your mcat is on the low end of average for DO. Someone with a 3.5+/502 would be what I'd call "good for DO." The bigger problem is your GPA.

Eh 502 is almost right at the average, I agree it's the combo of low GPA AND a 502. I would suggest OP just focus on getting the GPA up

 

[Coltuna]

Your MCAT isn't the problem, it's the GPA.



No school screens that high.



Apply to ARCOM, I would not apply to LUCOM.









The above 4 quotes are simply naive. I understand the idea of "I'll do anything for an acceptance anywhere" but it is wrong, and can (and does) lead to many a med student hating their life. There are medical schools that simply will not fit you as a student, and to apply to those schools knowing you don't really like it that much is stupid and has the potential to do some life altering damage. Medical school is brutal, something that you can't really understand until you are in it, and students who hate their school on top of all the stress will be at risk for very severe depression and I can guarantee that student will perform very poorly. No one should ever, ever apply to a school they would only attend because "well it will make me a doctor." Take another year, make yourself a better applicant, and reapply.



Eh 502 is almost right at the average, I agree it's the combo of low GPA AND a 502. I would suggest OP just focus on getting the GPA up

While I agree that OP shouldn't go to a school he/she will almost certainly dislike, chances are they haven't even looked into LUCOM given that they've "heard bad things." Once he's offered an interview there, that's when the real digging occurs. I disagree that he should throw in the towel this cycle because his chances at admission already decrease as a reapplicant. Your advice would've been spot on had he not already submitted his application to many schools. I think the take home message to OP that we can both agree on is to do his/her own research on schools before writing them off/applying.

I'll admit that I didn't apply LUCOM; however, I did my research beforehand and have above average stats for DO.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I disagree that he should throw in the towel this cycle because his chances at admission already decrease as a reapplicant.

No one ever said that. He should add ARCOM, and then ride out the rest of the cycle as it is still early.

 

[Coltuna]

No one ever said that. He should add ARCOM, and then ride out the rest of the cycle as it is still early.

Take another year, make yourself a better applicant, and reapply.

Actually, you said that. I don't want to detail OP's thread though. OP, chances are your application is fine, and you'll see some love later on. Do your research and apply where you want.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Actually you said that. I don't want to detail OP's thread though. OP, chances are your application is fine, and you'll see some love later on. Do your research and apply where you want.

I'm assuming CARS wasn't your strong point....

 

[Coltuna]

I'm assuming CARS wasn't your strong point....

Haha I actually knew you would take a page out of Goro's book for your response. I said I agreed with most of what you said. Take another year and reapply just kind of threw me off. You contradicted yourself in a sentence that many CARS experts would recommend MCAT takers to key in on since it's coming at the end of your paragraph, an area often designated for thesis. Alas, CARS wasn't my strong suit though-- only 126. You win this round of insults on an anonymous online forum we all spend way too much time on AnatomyGrey.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You contradicted yourself in a sentence that many CARS experts would recommend MCAT takers to key in on since it's coming at the end of your paragraph, an area often designated for thesis.

Lol no. Read it again. There is no contradicting going on, none of that paragraph is directly directed at OP. Making assumptions like that for CARS is a bad strategy.

 

[Coltuna]

Lol no. Read it again. There is no contradicting going on, none of that paragraph is directly directed at OP. Making assumptions like that for CARS is a bad strategy.

Assuming is exactly what I'd have to do if you meant taking another year after rejection. But this is why I defer people to the real CARS experts on here. Anyways, friends?

 

[avhopeful]

Verbally jousting in someone else's personal thread. lol

 

[Chromatic543]

No one ever said that. He should add ARCOM, and then ride out the rest of the cycle as it is still early.

I am going to add ARCOM and ride the rest of the cycle.

 

[aformerstudent]

What's the price tag for WVSOM thse days? Don't go there and bomb your boards.

 

[CJhooper123]

PREMED FIGHT!