DO school or conditional acceptance to dream school?

[MiamiBoyy]

So until a few weeks ago I was getting ready to start medical school this fall at a DO school I was lucky enough to get an acceptance at. That was until I got an email offering me a post bacc position where if I pass I can matriculate at my #1 MD school in 2018.
Basically, Id be taking upper div undergrad science classes and as long as I get at least a B in everything, I matriculate next year (seems very doable as far as conditional acceptances go at other programs.) Tuition is covered and there is a stipend provided so I dont have to worry about extra debt. Seems like an amazing offer the only thing really causing me to hesitate is having to wait another year (I turn 25 in a few months, feeling a little old lol). I was already mentally prepared to start now. However, going MD I think would help me in terms of my long term goals (academic position in specialty, research, competitive residencies, etc.) I really loved both schools but the MD is top 25 if rankings matter at all...
Anyways just wondering what other peoples opinions are and what they might do in my position.
Thanks!

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[Ehwic]

25 and feeling old? Cute.

Anyways, I personally would take the post-bacc if you can guarantee that their offer stands with no exceptions whatever. Think about it, is holding off another year in matriculation that significant to life-long career goals?

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Can you ask the DO school to defer your acceptance for a year? Is that possible while doing the post-bacc?

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

I would go MD. It's your #1 plus if you really don't want to be a DO and it was your back-up, why attend? Give that spot to somebody else. With that said, you already seem to know the pro's of choosing MD over DO. Good luck

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Devil's advocate here. As someone significantly older, I have learned that this rings true in life: The 16th century proverb, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

 

[pstrick]

What if something terrible happens next year and you can't focus on classes?

Medical schools (MD or DO) will let you remediate or take a leave of absence.
This master's programs is just going to toss you out on the street.

 

[Coltuna]

Are there significant other factors? Is the MD school a lot cheaper? Closer to home? etc?

 

[MiamiBoyy]

25 and feeling old? Cute.

Anyways, I personally would take the post-bacc if you can guarantee that their offer stands with no exceptions whatever. Think about it, is holding off another year in matriculation that significant to life-long career goals?

Touche. Old to be starting med school, maybe not in the grand scheme of things
Ive read the offer letter up down and sideways and there dosent seem to be any exceptions that I can find other than the grade requirement. And youre right it does seem worth it in the long run.

 

[MiamiBoyy]

Can you ask the DO school to defer your acceptance for a year? Is that possible while doing the post-bacc?

I guess I could ask but if I did defer wouldnt I have to commit to matriculating next year? Kind of defeats the purpose of doing the post bacc.

 

[MiamiBoyy]

What if something terrible happens next year and you can't focus on classes?

Medical schools (MD or DO) will let you remediate or take a leave of absence.
This master's programs is just going to toss you out on the street.

Hmmmm I guess that is a possibility to consider...
Idk if it makes a difference but this is not a master's program. I dont even get a certificate at the end of it. Ill literally just be taking classes like an undergrad. Its almost like a try out it seems like. Theres significant mentoring and advising attached to the program and its very small (I think its like 16-20 students total) so I feel like they may be understanding in the case of some horrible life event. Seems like something I should ask about though. Thanks!

 

[stickgirl390]

I'm 27 and still don't have an acceptance, you'll be fine. Do whatever will enhance your ultimate career goals the most.

 

[Coltuna]

Hmmmm I guess that is a possibility to consider...
Idk if it makes a difference but this is not a master's program. I dont even get a certificate at the end of it. Ill literally just be taking classes like an undergrad. Its almost like a try out it seems like. Theres significant mentoring and advising attached to the program and its very small (I think its like 16-20 students total) so I feel like they may be understanding in the case of some horrible life event. Seems like something I should ask about though. Thanks!

This actually seems like a great opportunity. It really depends on your career goals in the end. Do you see yourself gravitating towards ultra competitive specialties?

 

[enchantediris]

Hmmmm I guess that is a possibility to consider...
Idk if it makes a difference but this is not a master's program. I dont even get a certificate at the end of it. Ill literally just be taking classes like an undergrad. Its almost like a try out it seems like. Theres significant mentoring and advising attached to the program and its very small (I think its like 16-20 students total) so I feel like they may be understanding in the case of some horrible life event. Seems like something I should ask about though. Thanks!

I would say go for it! Seeing as this school is (1) offering you a spot in this program (and by extension their medical school), and (2) paying for you to take classes, plus a stipend, I think it's clear that they want you to succeed and think you will. Why would a school do this if they thought there was a significant chance you would fail out? While I am generally a cautious person, I also think there comes a point in your life where you have to take a leap of faith and believe in yourself and your abilities.

If you're still on the fence about deciding, maybe you could ask them how many people who enter this program successfully complete it and enroll in the medical school. That should give you a good idea about your chances.

 

[bbbcccppp]

Not Close. Unique opp. Post bacc.


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[MiamiBoyy]

This actually seems like a great opportunity. It really depends on your career goals in the end. Do you see yourself gravitating towards ultra competitive specialties?

Not sure, maybe not something like ortho or neurosurg but I would like to go somewhere where I dont feel like my options are limited. The DO school has had a few great specialty matches but its mission primarily is to train, well, primary care doctors.

 

[MiamiBoyy]

I would say go for it! Seeing as this school is (1) offering you a spot in this program (and by extension their medical school), and (2) paying for you to take classes, plus a stipend, I think it's clear that they want you to succeed and think you will. Why would a school do this if they thought there was a significant chance you would fail out? While I am generally a cautious person, I also think there comes a point in your life where you have to take a leap of faith and believe in yourself and your abilities.

If you're still on the fence about deciding, maybe you could ask them how many people who enter this program successfully complete it and enroll in the medical school. That should give you a good idea about your chances.

Very true! Im leaning towards doing it and it does seem like they want me even after initially rejecting me lol
Good idea Ill look into that, thank you!

 

[Coltuna]

Not sure, maybe not something like ortho or neurosurg but I would like to go somewhere where I dont feel like my options are limited. The DO school has had a few great specialty matches but its mission primarily is to train, well, primary care doctors.

Gotcha. I'd recommend the MD option then! If you were interested in any of the less competitive specialties for sure then it wouldn't be worth missing out on another year of $200k+ just for different letters behind your name.

 

[doctorleospaceman]

Devil's advocate here. As someone significantly older, I have learned that this rings true in life: .The 16th century proverb, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

That quote (within a quote).

I also am finding it difficult to believe that the conditions of the postbacc or what have you are that black and white. If they're inticing you now (with a free postbacc, stipend and guaranteed admission), why didn't they just accept you to the MD program?

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Ok, listen carefully.
I am NOT a premed. I am about to start my fellowship year in IR. I help to select residents, I teach med students and I know about fellowship and job markets.

Take the top 25 MD. Just do it.

Whoever says stone in hand worth two birds or whatever, OP already have both. The MD school, if top 25, Will be cheaper

 

[MiamiBoyy]

That quote (within a quote).

I also am finding it difficult to believe that the conditions of the postbacc or what have you are that black and white. If they're inticing you now (with a free postbacc, stipend and guaranteed admission), why didn't they just accept you to the MD program?

Ahhh yes I too was skeptical at first, friend. It seems to good to be true I know.
A great question. My inclination is that they maybe wanted to however could not accept me outright due to my lower than average gpa...

 

[doctorleospaceman]

Whoever says stone in hand worth two birds or whatever, OP already have both. The MD school, if top 25, Will be cheaper

Until you have an official acceptance it doesn't count. It's the equivalent of the BS/MD programs.

Ahhh yes I too was skeptical at first, friend. It seems to good to be true I know.
A great question. My inclination is that they maybe wanted to however could not accept me outright due to my lower than average gpa...

Well a B average (3.0) postbacc wouldnt really boost it, right?

I think everyone knows that given two acceptances you go for the MD, but that's not the case here. If for whatever reason it doesnt pan out, there are no other MD schools you can apply to (meaning another year down the drain) and DO is probably completely off the table after you decline an acceptance.
If the deal is as good as it sounds I'd say go for it, but Id double and triple check the terms and request a written form of the agreement.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Until you have an official acceptance it doesn't count. It's the equivalent of the BS/MD programs.


Well a B average (3.0) postbacc wouldnt really boost it, right?

I think everyone knows that given two acceptances you go for the MD, but that's not the case here. If for whatever reason it doesnt pan out, there are no other MD schools you can apply to (meaning another year down the drain) and DO is probably completely off the table after you decline an acceptance.
If the deal is as good as it sounds I'd say go for it, but Id double and triple check the terms and request a written form of the agreement.

Well, the question should be asked this way: should the OP go to a school that virtually guarantee any specialty save ortho, NS or plastics, or go to a school where anything but primary care can POTENTIALLY be an uphill battle?

Like I said, I am the type of people who select residents, so are the radiology PD in the rad forum. You don't have to take my opinion but this is what I would tell you if you were to apply to my program.

And before you ask, we do take DOs. They score an average of 20-30 points better than student we take from US schools, 30 points if they are from top 25 school.

Some people can never score 30 points higher on step 1 no matter how much they study, but OP can score 30 points just by going to a different school.

 

[doctorleospaceman]

Well, the question should be asked this way: should the OP go to a school that virtually guarantee any specialty save ortho, NS or plastics, or go to a school where anything but primary care can POTENTIALLY be an uphill battle?

Like I said, I am the type of people who select residents, so are the radiology PD in the rad forum. You don't have to take my opinion but this is what I would tell you if you were to apply to my program.

And before you ask, we do take DOs. They score an average of 20-30 points better than student we take from US schools, 30 points if they are from top 25 school.

Some people can never score 30 points higher on step 1 no matter how much they study, but OP can score 30 points just by going to a different school.

The question isn't simply DO vs MD, it's gauranteed DO vs hypothetical MD. If the MD plan falls through, OP can lose DO as an option (after turning down an acceptance) which can mean no medical degree at all. That is what complicates things.

 

[Med Ed]

So until a few weeks ago I was getting ready to start medical school this fall at a DO school I was lucky enough to get an acceptance at. That was until I got an email offering me a post bacc position where if I pass I can matriculate at my #1 MD school in 2018.
Basically, Id be taking upper div undergrad science classes and as long as I get at least a B in everything, I matriculate next year (seems very doable as far as conditional acceptances go at other programs.) Tuition is covered and there is a stipend provided so I dont have to worry about extra debt. Seems like an amazing offer the only thing really causing me to hesitate is having to wait another year (I turn 25 in a few months, feeling a little old lol). I was already mentally prepared to start now. However, going MD I think would help me in terms of my long term goals (academic position in specialty, research, competitive residencies, etc.) I really loved both schools but the MD is top 25 if rankings matter at all...
Anyways just wondering what other peoples opinions are and what they might do in my position.
Thanks!

Conditional MD at the top 25. Not even a question. And I'm one who thinks prestige is generally overrated (or at least highly confounded). The real selling point is the clinical education, and every top 25 has hospitals, faculty, GME, and research opportunities that most osteopathic schools can only dream of. This will have consequences for your career regardless of what specialty you match into. Schools do not become interchangeable simply because one does not wish to pursue a highly competitive field.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Take the post-bac opp. Not a question and anyone who says otherwise just doesn't get it honestly. The only caveat is that this is assuming there aren't any hidden conditions hiding with the opportunity, if it is just a 3.0 in the post-bac then this is an easy decision. Bet on yourself.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Not a question and anyone who says otherwise just doesn't get it honestly.

Respectfully, what an idiotic, short-sighted assumption.

 

[efle]

Just curious - why does this program exist? Like what makes it worth it on the school's end to cover ~$70,000 extra year of undergrad for a potential acceptee? I can't imagine a top 25 is really short on outstanding candidates to the point that they want to throw tens of thousands at a trial run for someone they suspect might turn out well.

 

[mwsapphire]

Just curious - why does this program exist? Like what makes it worth it on the school's end to cover ~$70,000 extra year of undergrad for a potential acceptee? I can't imagine a top 25 is really short on outstanding candidates to the point that they want to throw tens of thousands at a trial run for someone they suspect might turn out well.

I think it's that deferred acceptance thing that happens when they have a good candidate but the class for that year is full?

 

[Med Ed]

Just curious - why does this program exist? Like what makes it worth it on the school's end to cover ~$70,000 extra year of undergrad for a potential acceptee? I can't imagine a top 25 is really short on outstanding candidates to the point that they want to throw tens of thousands at a trial run for someone they suspect might turn out well.

URM, bilingual, probably first generation, solid MCAT and EC's, only sticking point is GPA. Hold it together for two semesters of upper level science courses and OP goes from lukewarm to hot commodity.

 

[getfat]

@MiamiBoyy is this school FAU?

Personally, I am risk averse and wouldn't risk guaranteed acceptance unless I am dead set on a competitive speciality.

JK original post does say it is top 25

 

[bannie22]

I think Bs are very easy. And theres no debate between an MD and DO position... dont rush things. pick the post bacc

 

[DrfluffyMD]

If I have to guess, it's Sinai. They have the money and they look for the whole applicant rather than people with the highest scores.

 

[cactusman]

@MiamiBoyy is this school FAU?

Personally, I am risk averse and wouldn't risk guaranteed acceptance unless I am dead set on a competitive speciality.

JK original post does say it is top 25

OP said in the first post that it's Top 25 (probably 20-25 just based on that numbering, not that it makes a difference). I missed it too at first and was confused by all these posts.

If I have to guess, it's Sinai. They have the money and they look for the whole applicant rather than people with the highest scores.

And they really want bilingual students (assuming OP is bilingual based on @Med Ed 's post), although that may be true for some of the other schools in that range.

 

[efle]

I think it's that deferred acceptance thing that happens when they have a good candidate but the class for that year is full?

When people defer they aren't told to do an extra year of undergrad on scholarship tho!

URM, bilingual, probably first generation, solid MCAT and EC's, only sticking point is GPA. Hold it together for two semesters of upper level science courses and OP goes from lukewarm to hot commodity.

Huh, interesting, I would have guessed the most competitive med schools already had enough applicants with these things and an OK GPA

 

[mwsapphire]

When people defer they aren't told to do an extra year of undergrad on scholarship tho!


Huh, interesting, I would have guessed the most competitive med schools already had enough applicants with these things and an OK GPA

Maybe they liked this candidate as a person. That's part of this whole holistic review thing we keep hearing about on this site.

 

[efle]

Maybe they liked this candidate as a person. That's part of this whole holistic review thing we keep hearing about on this site.

haha that's a good one

 

[mwsapphire]

haha that's a good one

Dude top schools don't just take people with high stats they don't have enough seats? Like that wouldn't even be possible? That's why many people get interviews but only a handful get acceptances? What am I missing?
This doesn't seem like their GPA is low ,though. They may have said that in the original post.

 

[efle]

Dude top schools don't just take people with high stats they don't have enough seats? Like that wouldn't even be possible? That's why many people get interviews but only a handful get acceptances? What am I missing?

I just don't believe that there is such a thing as being so interesting as a person that a top program will throw money at you to do a postbacc for them. I think it's more like they have a solid MCAT and are URM, but have a low GPA, and the first combo is such a winner (and all three is so scarce) that it's worth throwing money at them to overcome the weak spot.

But, I'm pretty cynical. Maybe they just wrote reaaaaaaally good essays.

 

[bbbcccppp]

To op. Not sure why some of these responses appear disingenuous as if you wish to be addressed in the third person

I am wondering if one B- would disqualify you.


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[PreMedMissteps]

Can you ask the DO school to defer your acceptance for a year? Is that possible while doing the post-bacc?

I guess I could ask but if I did defer wouldnt I have to commit to matriculating next year? Kind of defeats the purpose of doing the post bacc.

There's no real commitment. It's not like the DO school can force you to attend or punish you in any way.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Respectfully, what an idiotic, short-sighted assumption.

Actually, telling someone to go to a DO school when all they need to do is get Bs in some upper level classes and they have an acceptance to a top 25 is extremely idiotic and shortsighted. It's an impatient, rushed, knee jerk decision. Also it shows complete lack of confidence in ones self if they do it simply to avoid the work.

Also a most of the people who are saying to go to the DO school are people who haven't even applied yet, many probably haven't taken the MCAT, and all they hear is "acceptance" and come running.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Actually, telling someone to go to a DO school when all they need to do is get Bs in some upper level classes and they have an acceptance to a top 25 is extremely idiotic and shortsighted. It's an impatient, rushed, knee jerk decision. Also it shows complete lack of confidence in ones self if they do it simply to avoid the work.

Also a most of the people who are saying to go to the DO school are people who haven't even applied yet, many probably haven't taken the MCAT, and all they hear is "acceptance" and come running.

Note people who are well into their medical career like myself are saying one thing and premed who have never sit foot in a med school are saying another.

 

[doctorleospaceman]

Actually, telling someone to go to a DO school when all they need to do is get Bs in some upper level classes and they have an acceptance to a top 25 is extremely idiotic and shortsighted. It's an impatient, rushed, knee jerk decision. Also it shows complete lack of confidence in ones self if they do it simply to avoid the work.

Also a most of the people who are saying to go to the DO school are people who haven't even applied yet, many probably haven't taken the MCAT, and all they hear is "acceptance" and come running.

I don't think anyone here is saying go DO instead of MD. We're just skeptical regarding it being just that straight forward and easy for the reasons @efle and I have mentioned above.

 

[Med Ed]

Maybe they liked this candidate as a person. That's part of this whole holistic review thing we keep hearing about on this site.

Your snark aside, this is probably the case. I have been involved in numerous discussions of "value added" applicants who have either a weak MCAT or weak GPA. These typically come down to someone on the committee going to bat for the applicant and swaying some members of the committee, while others are recalcitrant in wanting to avoid anyone who poses an academic risk. Sometimes the former team wins, sometimes it's the latter, and in this case is seems there is a road to compromise with a 12-month conditional acceptance program.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I don't think anyone here is saying go DO instead of MD. We're just skeptical regarding it being just that straight forward and easy for the reasons @efle and I have mentioned above.

Except:

Devil's advocate here. As someone significantly older, I have learned that this rings true in life: .The 16th century proverb, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."


.

Seems to be pretty clearly saying to take the DO and run, especially in context with the other post he made. That's also who @AnatomyGrey12 was responding to, so...

 

[Lawpy]

So until a few weeks ago I was getting ready to start medical school this fall at a DO school I was lucky enough to get an acceptance at. That was until I got an email offering me a post bacc position where if I pass I can matriculate at my #1 MD school in 2018.
Basically, Id be taking upper div undergrad science classes and as long as I get at least a B in everything, I matriculate next year (seems very doable as far as conditional acceptances go at other programs.) Tuition is covered and there is a stipend provided so I dont have to worry about extra debt. Seems like an amazing offer the only thing really causing me to hesitate is having to wait another year (I turn 25 in a few months, feeling a little old lol). I was already mentally prepared to start now. However, going MD I think would help me in terms of my long term goals (academic position in specialty, research, competitive residencies, etc.) I really loved both schools but the MD is top 25 if rankings matter at all...
Anyways just wondering what other peoples opinions are and what they might do in my position.
Thanks!

If I understand correctly, the conditional MD just wants you to do a postbacc to alleviate concerns about academic performance (i.e. overcome a low GPA by doing well) and you get a guaranteed acceptance? There is probably something more to it but in any case, take the conditional MD for sure.

Being practical, choosing between DO and conditional MD is a decision comparing long term and short term costs. Picking DO is restricting long term career options. Picking conditional MD is deferring excitement to start school by a year. I think a year of postbacc work is worth the cost.

 

[Med Ed]

Huh, interesting, I would have guessed the most competitive med schools already had enough applicants with these things and an OK GPA

Take a school like Emory, which is #23 in the last research rankings. The matriculating demographics show the school is 88% white and Asian.

I don't think you appreciate the scarcity. Consider table A-24. The cell for GPA 3.6-3.8 and MCAT 30-32 is, to me, where your generic matriculant lives. Over the three years of aggregated data in that chart, there were 505 Hispanic/Latino applicants versus 5,980 white applicants. That's almost a twelve fold difference, to say nothing of the 2,406 Asian applicants with those numbers.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Actually, 1) telling someone to go to a DO school when all they need to do is get Bs in some upper level classes and they have an acceptance to a top 25 is extremely idiotic and shortsighted. It's an 2)impatient, rushed, knee jerk decision. Also it 3) shows complete lack of confidence in ones self if they do it simply to avoid the work.

Also a 4) most of the people who are saying to go to the DO school are people who haven't even applied yet, many probably haven't taken the MCAT, and all they hear is "acceptance" and come running.

Once again, respectfully, there are many assumptions in this post.

1) No one is telling OP to go to DO. Playing Devil's Advocate means providing OP the other side of a debate so that OP will not be myopic in his/her decision. OP will then be able to make a decision best for him/her after considering ALL the pros and cons.
2) Careful consideration of all factors/advice by OP will help OP avoid an "impatient, rushed, knee jerk decision."
3) No one is implying that OP can't get the necessary Bs, just that sometimes the best laid plans don't always work out. So OP should assess that possibility in his/her decision.
4) Having applied or taken the MCAT is not a pre-requisite for making a careful and considered decision that will significantly impact OP's life going forward.

 

[Lawpy]

Once again, respectfully, there are many assumptions in this post.

1) No one is telling OP to go to DO. Playing Devil's Advocate means providing OP the other side of a debate so that OP will not be myopic in his/her decision. OP will then be able to make a decision best for him/her after considering ALL the pros and cons.
2) Careful consideration of all factors/advice by OP will help OP avoid an "impatient, rushed, knee jerk decision."
3) No one is implying that OP can't get the necessary Bs, just that sometimes the best laid plans don't always work out. So OP should assess that possibility in his/her decision.
4) Having applied or taken the MCAT is not a pre-requisite for making a careful and considered decision that will significantly impact OP's life going forward.

Yeah and factoring all these into the decision process makes it clear that conditional MD is the way to go, contrary to your initial suggestion (and your followup crude dismissal of AnatomyGrey's post)

Devil's advocate here. As someone significantly older, I have learned that this rings true in life: .The 16th century proverb, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."


.

Which by the way basically recommends the exact opposite: favoring short term immediate gratification over long term costs. This is an impatient and excited decision without much thought given to it, A careful decision making process makes it evident that taking a short term cost of additional coursework to secure long term rewards of Top 25 MD acceptance is worth it.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Yeah and factoring all these into the decision process makes it clear that conditional MD is the way to go, contrary to your initial suggestion (and your followup crude dismissal of AnatomyGrey's post

Which by the way basically recommends the exact opposite: favoring short term immediate gratification over long term costs. This is an impatient and excited decision without much thought given to it, A careful decision making process makes it evident that taking a short term cost of additional coursework to secure long term rewards of Top 25 MD acceptance is worth it.

Thank you for proving my point that whatever the OP decides, it should be based on a careful factoring of ALL pros and cons to make a determination that is best for OP. As far as your remarks about my "crude" dismissal of Anatomy's post, my response was in regards to a portion of his statement which I quoted and bolded which was quite dismissive to those who don't share his opinion, not his entire post.