DO and Primary Care

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you will never go hungry working as a physician. Even with that large amount of debt
Just to play devil's advocate, this rhetoric is part of the reason schools raise tuition 3% each year without rebuttal from students and financial package cuts (cut by some MBA with a 2.8 UGgpa that makes more money) are rationalized without resistance from fresh doctors.

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Just to play devil's advocate, this rhetoric is part of the reason schools raise tuition 3% each year without rebuttal from students and financial package cuts (cut by some MBA with a 2.8 UGgpa that makes more money) are rationalized without resistance from fresh doctors.
Yup. It's the same line of thinking that has made physicians, overall, the bitches to the c-suites.

The demise of private practice and the explosion of employee medicine has ripped the nuts right off doctors.
 
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Yup. It's the same line of thinking that has made physicians, overall, the bitches to the c-suites.

The demise of private practice and the explosion of employee medicine has ripped the nuts right off doctors.

It's funny, I've seen some of our peers are hyped about specialties that emphasize employee medicine. EM you just have to show up for your shift and everything else is taking care of!
 
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Yup. It's the same line of thinking that has made physicians, overall, the bitches to the c-suites.

The demise of private practice and the explosion of employee medicine has ripped the nuts right off doctors.

Denise? I thought direct primary care and physician groups are the new rage going on? No?
 
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@sullen-burger hopefully they continue to be so, but it's important to remember medicine isnt immune from being one fell swoop from walmart's iron leash, just like pharmacy and optometry.
 
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I go to a mid-lower MD program. Although we only match about 10-15 people into Family med there is a similar trend I saw happen when third year began.

When we all started and even throughout most of years 1/2, it was similar as how you described. 1-2 people genuinely wanted FM. Heck even under 10 wanted IM and most were considering gen surg as a backup to whatever crazy specialty they wanted.

1) step 1: the first and foremost reality bomb med students get. The average this last year was 229, so ~30% of the class (poor man statistics) got hit with scores that trashed their dreams. Some with 240+ kept chugging toward their specialty in mind and those in the middle 220-235 were left unsure since their score didn't completely make or break them. Then third year truly began.

2) third year grades: this may vary based on the school, but some people in that 220-235 range were now looking at new specialties they didn't really think about before: anesthesiology, radiology, internal med, and gen surg. They were told marvelous things like "oh don't worry. If you do well in third year and honor your rotations they may overlook that 220 for some surgery places." Mind you only about 10% get honors here and about 60% get "pass" and everyone in between got the high pass equivalent. This was the next big awakening with people who once wanted ortho but couldn't hit step 1, then got hit by the "pass" in surgery and perhaps in multiple other clerkships. It's a rough year for people hoping to show they can excel in their desired core clerkship most important for their field. Medicine especially was a rough reality bomb.

3. The worst of them all. The name brand: Then students with a 220 and straight passes are told they can still do a fellowship even if they squeak into a lower tier IM/gen surg fellowship and this is where the prestige lovers still see that glimmer of light. That's it! They can match into GI and make a ton of money or even breast surgery and be the hot shot in Hollywood, CA! what they fail to mention is the reality of top tier IM residency privilege. There needs to be a way to break into a prestigious IM program to get that GI fellowship in that desirable location and who gets those prestigious IM residencies? The guy with a 240 who honored their IM rotation if they are coming from a low tier MD school. Now wait, why is the average for matched IM 233? Because the NAME OF THE SCHOOL turned out to matter in the end. Feels like betrayal after SDN spewed crap about the name not mattering but in the prestige world, it mattered all along. Yup someone from UCLA school of medicine can match most prestigious IM programs with a 220 on step 1. The top name brands match at the top academic IM residencies to get the GI fellowship.

There's variability with the above but the same idea applies to the most insanely competitive fellowships out of gen surg as well.

After realizing #3 is true after sitting down and talking with an advisor you wish talked to you earlier, and for those who just would rather do outpatient than be a general internist, they turn to FM, psych, and the rest after calling it a day.

A lot of trickling going on with this algorithm but it's basically how you end up dispersing a group of 150-200 first year med students that start off wanting ortho and IR.
Pretty much sums up the realization I was starting to have as I researched this. Gonna try to stay positive and work HARD.
 
Denise? I thought direct primary care and physician groups are the new rage going on? No?
The employee model is a relatively new trend in US healthcare. As near as 10-15 years ago a large chunk of community hospitals were staffed by private practice groups who contracted out to hospitals. Being an employee by someone who isn't a physician is a relatively new idea here in the states. Millenials don't want ownership and don't want the financial responsibility/savviness that comes with being in PP. Thus, the tides have turned and now they complain about someone who isn't a physician dictating how they practice medicine: talk about wanting your cake and eating it too.

At any rate, FM is a great example of physicians who can tell people who have no idea what they are talking about (i.e. mbas and non-physician employers) to shove it. Unfortunately, direct primary care isn't done by enough people to make a dent in the overall scheme of things. Further, that idea isn't as applicable to hospital based specialities which have lost the proper direction of healthcare (i.e. physician driven). It's really all nuanced that what I've said here and most of this has nothing to do with your question but lol i figured what the hell.

Sadly, i'm most interested in fields that have a large employee population but one of them is actually growing in the PP model. Hopefully I can find a physician owned group with a partner track by the time I'm out; however, I have a feeling we'll be in a single payer system by then and private practice models (in what I want to go into) will be a thing of the past..
 
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It's funny, I've seen some of our peers are hyped about specialties that emphasize employee medicine. EM you just have to show up for your shift and everything else is taking care of!

Oh ****, you literally quoted what a friend of my stated for EM. Sorry brah, but I'm sticking with PM&R for now, don't want to be a total slave to the hospital.
 
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Non-PP work is fine if the physician has bargaining power and isn't told what to do by the bottom line.
 
OP, I think a lot changes when you start your 3rd year (even if you have stellar board scores). Some people love a certain specialty that they romanticized then see it in the real world and think "wow those hours suck and this is more boring than I thought", etc. Our entire surgery club at the beginning of first year have since ALL matched into PC fields (on purpose). Things change once you get out in the hospitals, your view changes, maybe you get married or have a kid during school and realize you have other priorities than an extensive specialist training. Of course board scores play a factor. But for a lot of people it's suddenly realizing that Gen Surg isn't actually like Greys Anatomy, etc.


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Damn, you just can't let it go, it's alright premed.

Your god complex for being a first year medical student is astounding. Also, if you picked a school that would land you 400-500k in debt, and you were okay with it, you have only yourself to blame. Primary care doesn't make the most money, but there isn't a thing wrong with being "middle class" and paying your dues. You need a serious dose of humility and to grow up.
 
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I'm in primary care, just signed for $300k and 60k annual loan repayment. Plus a ton of other great benefits.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I was waiting for you to set him/her up straight... But your contract is not the norm.

Becoming a primary care doc is like a death sentence for med students.
 
I was waiting for you to set him/her up straight... But your contract is not the norm.

Becoming a primary care doc is like a death sentence for med students.

Oh look it's you again.... aren't you the guy who says you can't match psych with a 220s step 1 as a USMD? I also thought you quit medicine? The bolded is literally just plain stupid.
 
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Your god complex for being a first year medical student is astounding. Also, if you picked a school that would land you 400-500k in debt, and you were okay with it, you have only yourself to blame. Primary care doesn't make the most money, but there isn't a thing wrong with being "middle class" and paying your dues. You need a serious dose of humility and to grow up.
Ouchies, such harsh words from a premed. When you are working harder than you ever have been on the daily in medical school, competing with the best students in terms of grades and research, taking out massive amount of debt, and STILL knowing that there are 6-7 years of hard work ahead of you, please let me know that you are "fine" being middle class.

Try not to drown in first year, boy.
 
Oh look it's you again.... aren't you the guy who says you can't match psych with a 220s step 1 as a USMD? I also thought you quit medicine? The bolded is literally just plain stupid.
I guess my statement was not clear... I meant to say that is the vibe I get from med students, which I don't agree with. FWIW, I am applying to IM and a few FM programs as back up.
 
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I think this is about the time we collectively agree to stop feeding the troll.

OP if you want surgery go get surgery.
 
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Ouchies, such harsh words from a premed. When you are working harder than you ever have been on the daily in medical school, competing with the best students in terms of grades and research, taking out massive amount of debt, and STILL knowing that there are 6-7 years of hard work ahead of you, please let me know that you are "fine" being middle class.

Try not to drown in first year, boy.

Such harsh words from someone who's not a physician with a god complex. You sound like a spoiled child who found out they're getting 22 presents instead of 23 like last year. Spare me.
 
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I was waiting for you to set him/her up straight... But your contract is not the norm.

Becoming a primary care doc is like a death sentence for med students.

You must've missed the part where I pointed out that my contract isn't all that atypical.

At least in the region where I plan to live.

Sure, if you want to be in the middle of Manhattan, LA, or SF you may not get offered as much (still more than $200k though). Places like that don't have to pay as well, people will take the jobs anyway.

But I've looked in Utah, Texas,Western Montana, Western Oregon, Western Washington, Arizona, Colorado. Most offers were in the general vicinity of what I signed for; some slightly more, some slightly less.
 
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Ouchies, such harsh words from a premed. When you are working harder than you ever have been on the daily in medical school, competing with the best students in terms of grades and research, taking out massive amount of debt, and STILL knowing that there are 6-7 years of hard work ahead of you, please let me know that you are "fine" being middle class.

Try not to drown in first year, boy.

You're doing the med-school thing wrong. You seem miserable.

I had a great time in Med-school. I did pretty well too (3.5 GPA and above average boards).

I'd be fine being middle class, but I won't be. Any physician job still puts you in the top 5% of earners in this country.
 
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Ouchies, such harsh words from a premed. When you are working harder than you ever have been on the daily in medical school, competing with the best students in terms of grades and research, taking out massive amount of debt, and STILL knowing that there are 6-7 years of hard work ahead of you, please let me know that you are "fine" being middle class.

Try not to drown in first year, boy.

I'll stop feeding him after this, you sir are full of yourself. You are a first year. A FIRST YEAR. By this time in the year you have barely figured out how to study correctly. First year classes are also much easier than OMSI classes but you see no one crapping on you about being a first year so why do you feel the need to do it to others? Maybe it's due to this being an anonymous forum but no one should treat a future colleague with so much disrespect. If you react like this when someone has a differing opinion than you then medicine will be a long hard road ahead.

Besides that I have a sneaking suspicion you will be one of those students that "discovers they really love the patient interaction and have fallen in love with continuity of care" once you reach rotations.
 
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Hey man, I'm the target of all these internet warriors spitting fire. Don't blame me folks.:rolleyes: People like anatomy grey, RamsFan dont like it when I talk about realities for people like me, like it is unjustified to have the outlook that I have on life.
 
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Hey man, I'm the target of all these internet warriors spitting fire. Don't blame me folks.:rolleyes: People like anatomy grey, RamsFan dont like it when I talk about realities for people like me, like it is unjustified to have the outlook that I have on life.

I'm done after this, but YOU chose to go to medical school. YOU chose to go to a school that would land you with 400+k in debt and YOU chose to go to a DO program where the likelihood of going into primary care is higher. Sorry the woah is me crap falls on def ears regardless of your 3/4 year of med school over anatomygrey and myself.
 
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Wow at this thread. Not going to get involved, but I highly suggest "select" people to do their research before posting nonsense due to incorrect rumors and the like.

Thread is cringy.
 
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I guess my statement was not clear... I meant to say that is the vibe I get from med students, which I don't agree with. FWIW, I am applying to IM and a few FM programs as back up.

My apologies, I thought you were being melodramatic. I agree some med students treat PC like it's hell on earth, when the reality isn't even close to that.

Hey man, I'm the target of all these internet warriors spitting fire. Don't blame me folks.:rolleyes: People like anatomy grey, RamsFan dont like it when I talk about realities for people like me, like it is unjustified to have the outlook that I have on life.

Lol, sorry Boo but your "realities" are fabricated. I suggest trolling harder next time.
 
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I'm done after this, but YOU chose to go to medical school. YOU chose to go to a school that would land you with 400+k in debt and YOU chose to go to a DO program where the likelihood of going into primary care is higher. Sorry the woah is me crap falls on def ears regardless of your 3/4 year of med school over anatomygrey and myself.

*Woe is me*, by the way, I am loving how invested you are in me :).

My appologies, I thought you were being melodramatic. I agree some med students treat PC like it's hell on earth, when the reality isn't even close to that.



Lol, sorry Boo but your "realities" are fabricated. I suggest trolling harder next time.
Wow you are telling me MY situations and circumstances are fabricated. Do you have a god complex? RamsFan, this guy has the god complex that you were talking about. Going around telling everyone that their realities are made up.
 
*Woe is me*, by the way, I am loving how invested you are in me :).


Wow you are telling me MY situations and circumstances are fabricated. Do you have a god complex? RamsFan, this guy has the god complex that you were talking about. Going around telling everyone that their realities are made up.

You're quite an insufferable individual. Hope it all works out for you this is pointless
 
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