"Discharge" Summaries. . Transition to Civilian life

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R-Me-Doc

Now an X-R-Me-Doc
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Well, after a long time, 1 July 2006 has arrived, and I am officially out of the Army!!!!

FYI, since it is a FAQ here, I will start off by telling every prospective HPSP-er that after 4 years of HPSP, a 4-year residency, and 4 years of payback, I HAVE NO FURTHER MILITARY COMMITMENT (IRR, etc).

I have mixed feelings about the overall experience:
* Everything went well in med school and ADTs.
* Residency (Madigan) was a good solid program. I learned a lot and had some really good teachers. Of course, being military, they all come and go, so there is no guarantee of continuity.
* Being staff at a small MEDDAC pretty much stunk. All the money, staff, attention and everything else goes the the big MEDCENS (think WRAMC, BAMC, MAMC, etc) and the smaller places get shafted. You have zero control over how you work or what you can do.

* The $64,000 question: Would I do it all over again? I really don't know. Probably not, but like they say, hindsight is 20/20.
* My best advice would be this:
** If you are already in the system and you like it, great, more power to you. The military needs all the good docs it can get.
** If you hate it, too bad; do right by your patients, but otherwise just suck it up and start planning for your post-military life -- it's never too early to start planning.
** If you are just now thinking about joining via USUHS, HPSP, or whatever, ask yourself the following question: "Would I join the military today even if I were NOT going to be a doctor?" If the answer to that is "Yes," then go ahead and sign up; you'll probably love it. If the answer is "Hell no!" or even a "not sure," then do yourself a favor and make other plans -- the financial aspects won't be worth 8+ years of unhappiness.

Best of luck to everyone. There is a wealth of great info here, both pro and con; I wish this forum had been around in 1993!

Signing out, happily, under my new handle of "X-R-Me-Doc" :D :D :D

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I was recently discharged from active duty, after four years as an operational flight surgeon and two combat deployments. I have fond memories of reading the posts of some of the elders on this forum as they exited the military for good and moved on. I recall being envious of them, and dreaming of the day when I too could post a missive on SDN making that simple proclamation, that declaration of freedom signifying the end of one life and the beginning of another. So here goes.

I don't want to dwell too much on the negatives. Military life is full of vicissitudes. You learn after a while to take the good with the bad, roll with the punches, and do the best you can for the men depending on you. Because the guys on the line really do depend on you. My greatest joys as a flight surgeon came from serving them.

I think the military relies too much on GMO's, but I understand the need for operational physicians given the burden of the Wars these past ten years. It is not an ideal system, either for the military or the GMO physician, but I think the problem is unsolvable at this current juncture. I think military GME suffers from a lack of experienced clinicians. A lot of the good Docs get out at 8, 10, or 14 years. What you have left is young hard chargers just out of residency and basically non-practicing administrative types, many of whom got out of the doctoring business long ago. I don't believe this system is conducive to good resident training. Also, because the .Mil is a small, closed community, the likelihood is high that at some point you will end up with one of these non-practicing physicians as your boss. They can make life difficult, to be sure.

Many residents who complete their training, and are at the top of their game clinically (with energy to burn) find themselves posted to backwater community hospitals with few resources where most of the pathology has been farmed out to the civilian sector. So skill atrophy is a big issue, especially for surgeons and specialists. I think TRICARE has been an unmitigated disaster for military GME. It has caused an exodus from military healthcare of the old and sick patients that residents and staff physicians need to keep evolving as clinicians.

The red tape and bureaucracy is tedious, but there is bureaucracy in medicine wherever you go nowadays. The military has a tremendous proportion of annoying administrative types, mostly nurses, who use their rank inappropriately and waste time on inane initiatives that have little to do with providing good and efficient patient care.

In any case, these complaints are commonly known and have been stated much more eloquently by others on this forum.

What did I get out of military service? Well, it helped me to get an excellent civilian residency for which I otherwise might not have been fully qualified. Program directors were almost universally receptive and viewed GMO service as a big plus.

I learned how to be flexible, how to navigate in a bureaucracy and jump through hoops to take care of my men. I learned to put the needs of my squadron above my own. I learned which battles were worth fighting, and what was better left alone.

What I really learned was the value of comradeship. It is not a term I use lightly, and like many of the very best things in life, it came with a tremendous price and required extraordinary sacrifice.

I fought in Afghanistan during the worst of the surge, in Kandahar and Helmand provinces. I flew hundreds of combat missions, mostly air assaults and point of injury MEDEVAC flights in an often futile effort to stave off the destruction wrought by the sophisticated weapons systems employed by our enemies. On my second deployment I was at a small FOB on the Pakistan border.

Some things stick with me:

- the look of determination in the eyes of the aircrew and pilots as we donned our gear to fly a night air assault into a fortified area.

- treating a young soldier with a tension pneumothorax as we evacuated him out of a hot and dusty LZ, flying single ship with no escort coverage. I remember how happy I was to hear that he'd survived after making it to the CSH, and was on his way to Landstuhl and back home.

- how helpless and empty I felt when we'd make it to the CSH, too late, and salute as the fallen were taken off the aircraft and spirited away.

- how one of my flight medics, after a mission in Helmand province, broke down in tears on the LZ at the FST. I can recall looking at him, not knowing what to say, or really what could be said.

- having dinner the night before mid tour leave with an old friend, talking with him about his plans for the future, his girlfriend and his motorcycles. And then coming back three weeks later to find out that he'd been killed on a mission up north. He never did get the chance to propose to his girlfriend.

- nights spent half dozing in the back of a Chinook, waiting for the call to exfiltrate the rangers and special forces guys we'd dropped off several hours before.

There is no better feeling in the world than sharing a cigarette with a crewchief on a moonlit night off the back ramp of a CH 47, enveloped in the warm rotor wash.

I remember how much I enjoyed the flurry of choreographed activity in the back of the helo as we prepared for a mission. Every one one of us in perfect harmony, united with a common goal, and the occasional lewd and bawdy insults passed over the ICS, which at the time seemed the height of wit.

I grew extremely close to my aircrew, by necessity, because we depended on each other. We shared common dangers, and fears, we experienced the same exultation, boredom and despondency familiar to any deployed soldier.

These were men whom I probably never would have met in civil life. They came from much a different background than I did, indeed we had almost nothing in common besides our commitment to each other, a miracle of silent fraternity.

They saved my life on several occasions and I felt very badly leaving them. They were comrades in the truest sense of the word. The rest of my life will always be dedicated to them in an abstract sense.

I'm looking at a long road ahead. Most of my contemporaries have finished their residencies, gotten married, are making big money and driving expensive cars. I am just beginning that part of the journey after my four year detour. Yet I wouldn't trade places with them for anything.

I was lucky enough to experience true comradeship, a feeling so strong that I can hardly credit it's existence, sitting in my comfortable apartment now, with a beer in hand, typing out this screed.

I fear that the rest of my relationships in both residency and beyond will always be found wanting when viewed through the prism of the crucible we experienced together. But I am thankful, grateful to have lived the life I did.

In concluding, I wish everyone here the best. I hope that my words give some encouragement to future GMO's as they prepare to go out to the line. The life you will live there is not always easy, but if you do things right you will be given gifts that you never realized existed, gifts that you can carry with you for the rest of your life as both a physician and a person. Just be open to the possibilities, because before you know it, your tours will be over and you'll be heading back to more comfortable, familiar pastures.

This was supposed to be a celebratory post and I fear that it has turned into a requiem. So I'll sign off.

- ex 61N
 
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Finally done with this service commitment. I got my DD214 today and checked out of the command. Moving guys come in 2 days, and at the end of the week I am off to start the next phase of my life.

Compared to many on this board, I had it pretty good. The Navy paid my way through an incredibly expensive medical school and I got fully deferred for my training. I stayed stateside during my entire 4 year payback. Only hiccups were a duty station change after 2 years and a month TAD in Guam. The duty station change was pretty annoying, but it did have a few bright spots. Anyway, I got what I could out of the Navy, and I feel like I provided a very good service to the Marines, sailors, dependents, and veterans.

If I didn't have to do it again, I probably wouldn't. But, my family's financial situation was fairly dire. I'm not even sure if there would have even been a lender to give me the money to get through school. So, I put on khakis, got my degree, got trained, and served.

The major drawbacks for me were the constant uncertainty of life - not knowing if I could get deployed or transferred. A lot of it was my own paranoia about big brother - am I going to get called into the CO's office, get EMI, fail a uniform inspection, etc. None of this ever happened, but I just constantly felt like someone was watching me regardless of what I did. If I left the hospital early because I had finished clinic, was some admin type going to walk into my office and ask where I was. This did happen on at least one occasion, and it was a pain to deal with.

The benefits were the lifestyle for sure. No patient was really sick. Clinic volume was fairly light. Case load was real basic, simple stuff. I got to see my children quite a bit. On the downside, everything was such a snoozer that I definitely lost some OR skills. But they'll likely return once I start seeing these patients again.

I did do some moonlighting, but I'm not sure if it was worth it. As an anesthesiologist like PGG, I think being in the Navy can be good where you work a day job and then moonlight on a weekend or two. I definitely knew a guy who made a lot more with his moonlighting than he did as a navy staff anesthesiologist. But for us surgeons, it's really hard to find a group that wants call coverage for a weekend here and there. For the most part, I had to drive or fly far away to cover a hospital for a week that their doc was away. Sure, I made $8k for the week, but I ate up a lot of leave for it.

Anyway, I don't post too much, but I do lurk. It's a great feeling to be done. I really look forward to starting my job at my new hospital. Administration is already asking me what I want for clinic and the OR. Feels good to be wanted.
 
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I just separated from the Air Force after doing a combined residency (military + civilian) in Internal Medicine and finishing my 4 year HPSP commitment. Have to say... I am extremely happy and grateful for my time in the AF and would make the decision to sign up for the HPSP scholarship again in a heartbeat. That being said, I'm ready to move on but this was a great stepping stone for me professionally, personally, and financially. I remember coming on this website years ago before medical school and wondering if I was making the right decision. I recall there was a lot of negativity. Without taking much time to read recent commentary, I just wanted to share a positive story.

Now the experience was great for me personally but everyone is in a different situation. I can only speak as an Internist... and for that it was pretty great. My patient empanelment was 95% retirees in what would equate to a normal civilian IM clinic that skewed slightly old. For me, this was good: I got to see a lot of pathology and largely avoid the tedious paperwork associated with active duty patients (PT profiles, medical boards). I purposely sought out a location with a hospital (equivalent of a small regional hospital) to maintain inpatient skills. There was an associated residency to maintain some education/teaching. This all led to a nice, well-rounded experience that was a good foundation out of residency. I would see 12-13 internal medicine patients per day instead of scrambling out of IM residency (which is inpatient-heavy) to see 20 patients daily and worry about insurance and coverage. With a relatively light inpatient commitment (approx 15-20% of my schedule was for inpatient duties), most weekends were free. This allowed me to moonlight at a local civilian hospital (though the AF has hour restrictions for off-base employment). Though sacrificing weekends may not be a choice for everyone, this allowed me to further keep up my inpatient skills and make some nice extra $$$. I got to test the water of administrative duties and chairing committees (probably less likely so fresh out of residency in the civilian world) and this was good experience... or at least let me know administration is not my cup-of-tea. Even my 6 month deployment to the desert was a unique experience that I will remember (and be proud of) for the rest of my life. Financially, as a general internist the money wasn't bad (though there are plenty of other forums that do the math more precisely and for other specialties). It was nice to get a regular paycheck without the stressors of workload, metrics, etc while I was just starting out as a new physician. As I see Uncle Sam reach deeper into my civilian paycheck and I have other things to consider (medical/dental insurance), I realize the discrepancy in the primary care world is not monumental. Lastly, I got to take care of some really great patients. Keep in mind, as an internist, most of my patients were retirees so they had the discipline and wherewithal (or in support of their spouse) to put 20+ years in service of our country. Of course you'll always have bad apples but I couldn't have asked for a better group of folks to take care of as a new attending physician.

Of course, this is only one story - but positive stories need told, too. Experience may vary widely in different specialties, different branches (ahem, Army) and different family dynamics (I'm a single male). So why did I get out? The usual. The civilian pay is a draw (though do the math and consider other factors). I want the freedom to live where I wish. Being away from family/friends on deployment is tough. The Air Force's electronic medical record system is atrocious. Stupid/repetitive computer based training or non-clinical meetings are incessant. The longer you stay, the more you are pushed out of medicine and behind a desk (administration is not for me, as above). As with most govt/military/bureaucratic agencies, common sense often does not prevail. Is it perfect? No. Could I personally have put in another 13 years to get to that coveted pension? Probably not without becoming very bitter and irritable. But my time in military medicine was a great decision for me. I hope others find a similar reward.
 
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Hey everyone...I used to be a regular poster on this forum, but I made my last post a year ago yesterday. That was the day I picked up my DD 214 and went on terminal leave. I wanted to "tell my story" then, but I didn't think it would be appropriate while I was still on active duty. A few weeks later, when I had officially separated, I had kind of lost the will to post, if you will, and I decided that it might be prudent to wait a year, gain some perspective, and then say my piece.


I was an Army brat growing up, with my dad retiring the same fall that I joined Army ROTC. There was a strong expectation from my family that I would serve, and serve as an officer. Back then, medical school wasn't really on the radar, so I accepted a scholarship for ROTC with the idea of being a line officer. Medical school only entered the picture later on, but luckily, when it did, I received an educational delay to attend. I got this despite deciding to forego HPSP, which would have given me an 8-year post-residency commitment, because even as a college senior that seemed like way too long of an obligation. The bottom line though is that, between growing up and ROTC, I had a better idea than most of what I was getting into.


During medical school, I was really left to wander the figurative forest without any guidance. Back then, there weren't any official online resources, and – not being on scholarship – the HPSP office had little-to-no visibility of me. I was so lost that it wasn't until 3rd-year that I had pieced together enough information to know that I had the same obligations vis-a-vis residency as an HPSP student. It was also then that I found this forum, which turned out to be my best source of information.


I fully admit that the Army treated me just about as well as I ever could have hoped. I matched into my preferred specialty at my number one choice out of medical school. After residency, I was sent to one of the major MEDCENs (against my preferences, BTW), where I never had to worry too much about skill atrophy. I never deployed, although it wasn't something I avoided. By the time I was done with residency, we were essentially out of Iraq and operations in Afghanistan were winding down. Lifers and people senior to me were lining up to deploy at that point, and I simply didn't get in their way.


Things really changed for me on 15 October 2012. That was the day that I was paged to my chair's office, where I was informed that I had been selected to be a brigade surgeon. I’m a radiologist, which makes me, arguably, the least qualified person to do that job. Also, that two-year tour would have been my last two in uniform, which would have ruined my chances of getting a civilian job right away, effectively obligating me to stay on active duty beyond my contract in order to rehabilitate my skills.


Over the course of 4 months, and through I process that I still don't understand, I was eventually relieved of the tasking. My slot just up and vanished, probably because my consultant went to bat for me. So, luckily, I was able to stay at my MEDCEN and do my best to keep my head down.


However, what that 4 months really taught me is that the Army no longer had any plans simply to let me practice the craft it had trained me to do. To me, it was the first indicator of a paradigm shift from the system that I had been told about by and witnessed in the senior officers I saw in residency. To wit, if you want to be a lifer, you do a utilization tour in BFE, do a fellowship, get back to a MEDCEN, and then homestead until you're ready for your mailbox money. Sure, sprinkle in some administrative duties here and a deployment there, but the Army generally left you alone to do your job.


And I'm not talking about leave you alone in terms of standard military stuff. Wearing a uniform, staying in shape, taking PT tests - these are all standard military fare that never really bothered me. I mean, they bothered me inasmuch as no one really likes waking up at 0400 to run in circles, but they never really were such an issue as to be a deal breaker. Also, even though I never did it, I felt the same way about deployments - that was the job I signed up to do. No, I'm talking about leaving me alone to actually practice medicine – the job they hired me and invested many hundreds of thousands of dollars in me to do.


Over my last my last few years in uniform, the Army's new approach went from insidious to codified doctrine. "Don't just be a doctor" became the mantra of every higher-up giving a state-of-the-medical corps talk. By that time, it already become clear to me that this was an organization that I no longer wanted to be a part of. I think, like most people in our profession, I conceive of myself primarily as a physician, and the (perceived) needs of the Army took a very distant backseat in my mind. I had spent too much time, money, and energy to be able to practice medicine, and I wasn't about to give that up to be what the Army wanted me to be.


I think the divergence between what Army physicians want and what the Army wants out of its physicians could fill a book, but suffice it to say, I decided to separate. There were a number of reasons I chose to separate, but one of them is that, as silly as it sounds, the Army and I grew apart. Not only was I a far different person than the teenager that signed that ROTC scholarship contract, but I was vastly different than the brand new O-3 who showed up to internship orientation. Similarly, the medical corps I heard about and saw as a medical student and resident no longer existed. It had been replaced by one that was less interested in delivering healthcare, and more keen on making sure its soldiers had plenty of physicians to track their flu shots and make sure their cold-weather training was current.


And so, after three and a half decades as either a dependent, and ROTC cadet, or an officer, the last year of my life has been my first without the Army. I thought it might feel strange, but it hasn't, and I honestly don't miss it at all. The first time I went out of town I caught myself feeling weird about not filling out no few than 5 different documents, but it's funny how quickly one forgets about all of the headaches that used to be such a big part of life. Even though I'm at a large place where there's still a lot of bureaucracy, there's really no such thing as the death-by-a-thousand cuts phenomenon I experienced in the Army. And, of course, the idea that anyone would be forced to stop practicing medicine by the administration is such a foreign concept that I doubt my partners are able even to conceive of it. Nope, you're not going to catch me hedging on this - as a physician, civilian medicine is way better than military medicine. And that's without even considering things like salary.


When I think about my time in the Army, I keep coming back to this: I have no regrets, but I wouldn't do it all over again. On one hand, I am proud that I did my part, as small as it was, and did it honorably. And I can't say that I'm unhappy with where I've ended up. On the other hand, I'm not convinced that the Army really helped me that much and, on balance, it was probably a hindrance both financially and professionally. Then again, I'm okay with that, because it's not really service if you don't sacrifice anything, and I try to remember that a lot of people have given up a whole lot more than I did. Still, it's an organization and an experience that I'm happy to have behind me.


For those of you considering HPSP or USUHS, I think there are two big warnings that I'd like to pass on. Number one: the person who signs on the dotted line is very rarely the same person who comes out of training. So many things about you and your life will change, and that is especially true if you are a traditional student. What seems like no big deal as a single 23 year old becomes a huge issue as a 33-year old spouse and parent. Secondly, and this may be branch specific, understand just how different your idea and the Army's idea of the practice of medicine will be. Even if you train in the military, you will train to civilian standards (USMLE, ACGME, civilian board certification, etc.), and you will almost certainly develop a sense of your professional self based upon that training and those experiences. Understand that the Army doesn't care about that, and so you have to ask yourself how you're going to feel when you have to cancel clinic to piss in a cup in front of someone barely half your age.


I'll say again what so many others have said already - your number one reason for joining has got to be a desire to serve. The quality of your COs, your locations, your training, and your pay (as compared to civilian remuneration) is all going to vary so much that no two people will have the same experience. You cannot rely on those things to break your way. As we say, hope is not a method. I believe that you need to have a well-developed deontologic ethic to serve. If you don't, then there's a good chance you're going to be upset and angry about how you've been treated unfairly, because, invariably, you will be shat upon. I can't always say that I always practiced that, but I think I did it enough that it never affected patient care, and I came away psychologically unscathed. And that's good enough for me.


I have a tremendous amount of respect for everyone who wears the uniform honorably. I realize we're not trigger pullers, and I would never put myself on the same level as the guys sleeping in the muck. But it's also true that even us medical corps REMFs have given more than the overwhelming majority of our countrymen, and all of you deserve credit for that, so thank you for your service. If you've found a happy place and decided to stay in, good for you. Keep fighting the good fight, and do as little as possible to perpetuate the broken parts while hopefully fixing a few things too. For those of you, like me, who need a clean break, realize that really is light you’re seeing at the end of the tunnel and, at least for me, the grass really is greener on this side.


Thanks for reading. Out.
 
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I also have recently gotten my DD Form 214. I am on terminal leave before I start my civilian job. Like stated elsewhere, my experienced in the military has been mixed. I felt I got good training in both my primary and sub-specialty through the military. My assignments after residency as well as after sub-specialty have been a mixed bag. Two crappy assignments and one good one. There was a period of separation from my then active duty spouse. I deployed but it was for < 4 months to a fairly low key area. All in all, I have no regrets. I have zero student loans. I have considerable savings. I have a job lined up. There definitely will be aspects I miss about the military (camaraderie, going to the P/X/commissary, USO and getting those various discounts). I won't miss the random admin BS like urine tests, APFT or having to sign out on leave. I also hated the uncertainty of when the hammer would drop for the next PCS or deployment order. going on 30 days into terminal leave I am getting fond memories but also it is seeming more distant. Anyway, I look forward to civilian wife. I know my wife enjoys it. I'll still remain fairly active on these boards.
 
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Picked up my DD214 yesterday, took off my ACU's for the last time, capping a 27 year army career. Starting my civilian gig in a month. My thoughts :

My training was excellent. USUHS is top-notch. Surgical internship and residency in the 90's (with a year in Korea in between ) at busy medcens staffed by both wisened grey-hairs and eager junior staff. Graduated with respectable numbers including plenty of complex open belly cases and trauma. Two years as GS staff at Landstuhl was fantastic. Plenty of elective surgical volume (left just before combat casualties started displacing elective cases). Fellowship at a very busy civilian center. As a junior subspecialist staff, noticed progressive decline in volume but this was tempered by being solo for my first 7 years; all the cases in the medcen were mine. The last 5 years have seen surgical volumes tank, worsened by now sharing cases with colleagues. Over the last 3 years, my colleague and I have averaged about 70 OR cases each per year. Our endovascular case counts done in IR are equally pitiful. My civilian counterparts are averaging 400-500 OR cases per year and 200-400 IR cases per year. Our volume has continued to decline despite aggressively promoting a VA sharing agreement. My general surgery colleagues are in the same boat volume-wise. The volume issue is the fatal issue in military medicine, at least on the surgical side. I have not seen a proposal that is likely to fix this. All of the other issues brought up in this forum - loss of autonomy, stifling burocracy, dysfunctional EMR's, poor ancillary support, etc are certainly real but pale in comparison to the volume issue.

So, would I do it again? Starting again in 1990, yes. Starting today, absolutely not, at least not in a surgical specialty. Hope this was helpful.
 
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What do you see as the reason for the decline in volume?
 
What do you see as the reason for the decline in volume?

I think it goes back to the decision to empanel most of the TFL population with civilian PCP's. These PCP's understandably preferably refer to civilian specialists in their network. We unintentionally make their decision easier by giving them an inferior product in terms of communication. All modern EMR's have an automated function that generates a report of the encounter that is sent to the referring PCP via their preferred method. AHLTA has no such function. Tasking my lone GS4 MSA with mailing or faxing a copy of every single encounter to the appropriate PCP is not a workable solution
 
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DD 214 picked up, final out completed, terminal leave commencing. I’m done with my time on active duty! I’ve been waiting for a long time to write this discharge summary, and I’m a little surprised to admit that it is bittersweet. I’ve spent the vast majority of my time hating being in the military and resenting my role in it. Now, with life moving onward at steep positive trajectory, I can appreciate some of my time spent in service to this great nation.


I’m not exactly a dump my purse out on to the table type of guy but I’ve decided to share my sob story here and let it be food for thought for those that find their way onto this forum. It’s something that I’ve been living with for the past 4.5 years and since this is my swan song, I’m going to spin my yarn.


Med school, BOLC, and then reported for duty as a general surgery intern. For those of you who don’t know, at the time the common practice would be for MS4s to match to a surgical prelim year, with the understanding that there were less residency positions than interns. So someone was getting cut, and typically the PD or APD would let the unlucky (or lucky?) intern know sometime in August so that they had time to re-apply to a different specialty. That played out as it does, and my colleague who was selected for the culling re-applied and successfully matched to a different specialty. I had my 3-month meeting with the PD and he told me to keep working hard, to keep learning, that he wanted to pick me up. With my colleague cut I thought I was in. I re-applied to general surgery and crossed my fingers.


I got called into the office in late October of my intern year and was told I would not be continuing in GS training. I was also advised that the whole prelim system was going away, so there would be no residency spot for me to come back to. My surgical career in the Army was over just like that. I was flabbergasted, hurt, betrayed, pick your adjective.


So what to do? The only thing to do is to continue on with my surgical internship, which as you know is arriving at the hospital at 5AM, going home at 7PM, reading for a few hours, catch 5 or 6 hours of sleep, and repeating. The difference here is that I knew I wasn’t going to be continuing surgical training, and that if I slacked off it would be just more work for my fellow interns. I kept working. I put my head down and rammed my way through it.


Next stop, GMO land. I went to flight surgeon school, reported to my duty station, and deployed almost immediately. I returned home ready to re-submit my application to medical training, this time in EM. I interviewed at all the spots, ranked as best I could, and was again disappointed at a non-select. At this point, I started taking it a little personally. I spoke to the advisor to the OTSG and he advised me that I was a good candidate in a very competitive specialty in a very competitive year, and that I should stick with it and re-apply next cycle. It was at that point I realized that I would owe more time in the Army if I did that, and that there was a strong possibility that I would be sent right back to an aviation unit to be a brigade surgeon upon completion of residency. I have no desire to push any more papers, so I opted to no longer apply in the military, and be a GMO and GTFO.


I knew I made the right choice as civilian opportunities started to become available. I’m not a believer in god, or fate, or the universe, but I am a believer in walking through an open door. All of the military doors had slammed shut, but in the civilian world they were all opening. I went through as many as I could, which has culminated in a successful civilian match in EM.


Now with everything at home and at work being so overwhelmingly positive, it’s hard for me to hold on to any anger or resentment anymore. I think I’ve spent enough time with negativity anyhow. Honestly, what has healed it the most has been coming to understand how the Army works, and how the Army does business. It was a pretty crushing blow to be rejected for residency a mere 4 months into my medical career. I tend to internalize, so first I blamed myself for being a crappy doctor. Then, I blamed my PD, as I felt as though he had lied to me. Finally, I learned a few things about my replacement in GS, and about some of the family connections they had, and now I realize that I probably never had a chance at succeeding in that scenario. For all I know, Big Army could have called my PD and told him to make room at whatever cost, and I was next in the execution line. Or maybe not, I can never really know and at this point I’m not interested in finding out. Truth usually lies in the middle of extremes.


I hate that the Army is unable to train many of its young docs in specialties that they are qualified to train in and so get pushed into TYs. I hate that so many TYs get pushed into GMO time. I hate that medical careers get delayed or compromised in order for these GMO years to happen. I hate that new grads from IM or EM get pushed into brigade surgeon jobs. But that is the deal you sign with this devil. The military as a whole exists to engage and kill the enemy. That’s all. Everything else is just gravy. It’s not an institution that wants to make real progress in cancer research, or produce the safest surgeons, or become an educational Mecca. At the end of the day, it’s an institution that uses violence to further the interests of the United States of America.


It didn’t work out for me in the Army. And that’s fine. At this point, my perspective is such that I lucked out with GMO and GTFO. I loved surgery but I am glad that I am not going down that road anymore. It hurt getting cut but I’ve made my peace with that and I am glad to be entering the world of EM instead. And I’m glad that I didn’t get picked up for EM in the Army. Army training is great but let’s face it: the civilian population is older, sicker, has made worse life decisions, and has poorer methods of resolving conflict. That’s the place that I want to train in EM. When I graduate, I will not be faced with the prospect of getting sent to Ft. Polk to see sprained ankles, or become a brigade surgeon in Korea.


On the flip side, I got an incredibly expensive medical school paid for. I had enough rapport with my command teams that I basically did whatever I wanted, to include moonlighting like crazy and having plenty of office hours spent on the golf course. I met a lot of great people. I had the chance to assist on a bowel re-anastomosis of a young soldier that took AK rounds to the abdomen. I took 300 soldiers in Africa during rainy season and brought them all back malaria-free. I think those are the things that will stick with me.


But with all that said, I wouldn’t do it again, and as I have said many times before I would never advise a pre-med to go into the military unless their goal is to become an Army officer. There are simply too many pitfalls that can ensnare a doc and delay/derail/devalue their careers, and as a pre-med with a fresh acceptance letter in hand and no prior military experience, you cannot make a truly informed decision at that point in your life. After years of hard work and sacrifice, it’s simply not worth it unless you have a burning desire to serve your country. I would offer that there are many ways to do that, and the military is not the only route to service of your country. The military will demand a high price however, and what is offered in return may or may not be worth that sacrifice.


Thanks for reading this far, and thanks to everyone on this forum who has offered advice, commiseration, or a laugh. I’m looking at you @psychbender @pgg @Homunculus @HighPriest @Gastrapathy @Clap MD @DrMetal @Slevin @Helpful Troll . I’ve said my piece and I’m leaving this fight. I’ll still lurk but don’t imagine I will have much else to say that I haven’t already said. It’s time to move on.


WernickeDO out.
 
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@WernickeDO

Thank you for your service. Whatever I feel about milmed, I’m proud to be a veteran.

Congrats on your residency selection. GMO and GTFO to EM will serve you so much better than languishing as a .mil surgeon. It’s hard to see rejection as a blessing but it was.
 
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DD 214 picked up, final out completed, terminal leave commencing. I’m done with my time on active duty! I’ve been waiting for a long time to write this discharge summary, and I’m a little surprised to admit that it is bittersweet. I’ve spent the vast majority of my time hating being in the military and resenting my role in it. Now, with life moving onward at steep positive trajectory, I can appreciate some of my time spent in service to this great nation.


I’m not exactly a dump my purse out on to the table type of guy but I’ve decided to share my sob story here and let it be food for thought for those that find their way onto this forum. It’s something that I’ve been living with for the past 4.5 years and since this is my swan song, I’m going to spin my yarn.


Med school, BOLC, and then reported for duty as a general surgery intern. For those of you who don’t know, at the time the common practice would be for MS4s to match to a surgical prelim year, with the understanding that there were less residency positions than interns. So someone was getting cut, and typically the PD or APD would let the unlucky (or lucky?) intern know sometime in August so that they had time to re-apply to a different specialty. That played out as it does, and my colleague who was selected for the culling re-applied and successfully matched to a different specialty. I had my 3-month meeting with the PD and he told me to keep working hard, to keep learning, that he wanted to pick me up. With my colleague cut I thought I was in. I re-applied to general surgery and crossed my fingers.


I got called into the office in late October of my intern year and was told I would not be continuing in GS training. I was also advised that the whole prelim system was going away, so there would be no residency spot for me to come back to. My surgical career in the Army was over just like that. I was flabbergasted, hurt, betrayed, pick your adjective.


So what to do? The only thing to do is to continue on with my surgical internship, which as you know is arriving at the hospital at 5AM, going home at 7PM, reading for a few hours, catch 5 or 6 hours of sleep, and repeating. The difference here is that I knew I wasn’t going to be continuing surgical training, and that if I slacked off it would be just more work for my fellow interns. I kept working. I put my head down and rammed my way through it.


Next stop, GMO land. I went to flight surgeon school, reported to my duty station, and deployed almost immediately. I returned home ready to re-submit my application to medical training, this time in EM. I interviewed at all the spots, ranked as best I could, and was again disappointed at a non-select. At this point, I started taking it a little personally. I spoke to the advisor to the OTSG and he advised me that I was a good candidate in a very competitive specialty in a very competitive year, and that I should stick with it and re-apply next cycle. It was at that point I realized that I would owe more time in the Army if I did that, and that there was a strong possibility that I would be sent right back to an aviation unit to be a brigade surgeon upon completion of residency. I have no desire to push any more papers, so I opted to no longer apply in the military, and be a GMO and GTFO.


I knew I made the right choice as civilian opportunities started to become available. I’m not a believer in god, or fate, or the universe, but I am a believer in walking through an open door. All of the military doors had slammed shut, but in the civilian world they were all opening. I went through as many as I could, which has culminated in a successful civilian match in EM.


Now with everything at home and at work being so overwhelmingly positive, it’s hard for me to hold on to any anger or resentment anymore. I think I’ve spent enough time with negativity anyhow. Honestly, what has healed it the most has been coming to understand how the Army works, and how the Army does business. It was a pretty crushing blow to be rejected for residency a mere 4 months into my medical career. I tend to internalize, so first I blamed myself for being a crappy doctor. Then, I blamed my PD, as I felt as though he had lied to me. Finally, I learned a few things about my replacement in GS, and about some of the family connections they had, and now I realize that I probably never had a chance at succeeding in that scenario. For all I know, Big Army could have called my PD and told him to make room at whatever cost, and I was next in the execution line. Or maybe not, I can never really know and at this point I’m not interested in finding out. Truth usually lies in the middle of extremes.


I hate that the Army is unable to train many of its young docs in specialties that they are qualified to train in and so get pushed into TYs. I hate that so many TYs get pushed into GMO time. I hate that medical careers get delayed or compromised in order for these GMO years to happen. I hate that new grads from IM or EM get pushed into brigade surgeon jobs. But that is the deal you sign with this devil. The military as a whole exists to engage and kill the enemy. That’s all. Everything else is just gravy. It’s not an institution that wants to make real progress in cancer research, or produce the safest surgeons, or become an educational Mecca. At the end of the day, it’s an institution that uses violence to further the interests of the United States of America.


It didn’t work out for me in the Army. And that’s fine. At this point, my perspective is such that I lucked out with GMO and GTFO. I loved surgery but I am glad that I am not going down that road anymore. It hurt getting cut but I’ve made my peace with that and I am glad to be entering the world of EM instead. And I’m glad that I didn’t get picked up for EM in the Army. Army training is great but let’s face it: the civilian population is older, sicker, has made worse life decisions, and has poorer methods of resolving conflict. That’s the place that I want to train in EM. When I graduate, I will not be faced with the prospect of getting sent to Ft. Polk to see sprained ankles, or become a brigade surgeon in Korea.


On the flip side, I got an incredibly expensive medical school paid for. I had enough rapport with my command teams that I basically did whatever I wanted, to include moonlighting like crazy and having plenty of office hours spent on the golf course. I met a lot of great people. I had the chance to assist on a bowel re-anastomosis of a young soldier that took AK rounds to the abdomen. I took 300 soldiers in Africa during rainy season and brought them all back malaria-free. I think those are the things that will stick with me.


But with all that said, I wouldn’t do it again, and as I have said many times before I would never advise a pre-med to go into the military unless their goal is to become an Army officer. There are simply too many pitfalls that can ensnare a doc and delay/derail/devalue their careers, and as a pre-med with a fresh acceptance letter in hand and no prior military experience, you cannot make a truly informed decision at that point in your life. After years of hard work and sacrifice, it’s simply not worth it unless you have a burning desire to serve your country. I would offer that there are many ways to do that, and the military is not the only route to service of your country. The military will demand a high price however, and what is offered in return may or may not be worth that sacrifice.


Thanks for reading this far, and thanks to everyone on this forum who has offered advice, commiseration, or a laugh. I’m looking at you @psychbender @pgg @Homunculus @HighPriest @Gastrapathy @Clap MD @DrMetal @Slevin @Helpful Troll . I’ve said my piece and I’m leaving this fight. I’ll still lurk but don’t imagine I will have much else to say that I haven’t already said. It’s time to move on.


WernickeDO out.

Well said and great perspective.

Your comments are certainly more smooth around the edges than mine.

Good luck in the civilian world.
 
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If you're starting medical school, and know you're going to be primary care, pick military medicine. Then get out as soon as possible.

If you're not sure about primary care, bail before you sign anything. All you'll see is random musculoskeletal pain. And your specialty medicine knowledge will slowly die.

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If you're starting medical school, and know you're going to be primary care, pick military medicine. Then get out as soon as possible.

If you're not sure about primary care, bail before you sign anything. All you'll see is random musculoskeletal pain. And your specialty medicine knowledge will slowly die.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
What do you mean by that?
 
What do you mean by that?
Skill rot is a real entity. The military likes to think that you are good straight out of the box (residency), and no effort is necessary to maintain that same level of competence. That they can stick you on a shelf somewhere (Ft Irwin, brigade surgeon tour, etc), then tell you to deploy and expect excellence. Turns if you don't regularly take care of certain populations or diseases that you trained to take care of, you start to forget how to do once simple things. This hits subspecialists and surgeons particularly hard, but is also a big problem with regular primary care, as much of your panel will consist of younger people with few comorbid conditions.

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What would you recommend if USUHS is the only school that accepted me?
 
What would you recommend if USUHS is the only school that accepted me?

I recommend you do your homework and make sure that you understand Milmed 100% before saying yes. I also recommend that you be brutally honest with yourself and only go to USUHS if you can imagine yourself being happy in the military for the next 15+ years.


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Passing on an acceptance is not a good plan.

If USUHS is your only acceptance (not top applicant) and you aren't ready to commit your life 100% to the military then you really need to think about your decision.

Just understand that if you struggle at USUHS and fail out you get kept on active duty as a O1 admin clerk until you pay back your time/money for the years you spent there. You are also front of the line to fill deployment gaps. Resigning from USUHS/HPSP

If you are 100% committed to military service no matter the position then USUHS might be a great fit
 
I understand what it means for the typical person applying to all civilian schools.

As we all know, USUHS is not your typical school. When you go to USUHS you are also committing to a minimum of 14 years on active duty (4 med school, 3+ intern/resident, 7 payback). Doesn't even include possible GMO tour.

All I am saying is you need to accept that active duty timeline first and foremost in your decision process.
 
What would you recommend if USUHS is the only school that accepted me?

Of course people wouldn't apply to a school in the first place if they knew they would reject an acceptance. But people learn things during the application season. If you've already applied and are just now deciding it's not for you, withdraw the application. If you interview and decide at that point it's not for you, withdraw the application.

As gastrapathy wrote, rejecting an acceptance may bias future adcoms against you. But that bad outcome isn't as bad as joining the military when you don't want to be in the military.
 
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Just understand that if you struggle at USUHS and fail out you get kept on active duty as a O1 admin clerk until you pay back your time/money for the years you spent there. You are also front of the line to fill deployment gaps. Resigning from USUHS/HPSP
Would one just rot away as O-1, or at least make it to LTJG/1LT? Isn't that automatic/100%, or world they REALLY stick it to that person?

I mean, that sounds like those teachers in NYC that they can't fire, so they just sit in a room all day, doing nothing.

Edit: or, if one flunks out of USUHS, is it just 1/1 payback, or the whole 7?
 
Would one just rot away as O-1, or at least make it to LTJG/1LT? Isn't that automatic/100%, or world they REALLY stick it to that person?

I mean, that sounds like those teachers in NYC that they can't fire, so they just sit in a room all day, doing nothing.

Edit: or, if one flunks out of USUHS, is it just 1/1 payback, or the whole 7?

They're eligible for promotion. I imagine some might even want to stay, given that they find themselves in ongoing need of a job and paycheck at that point, and being a military officer isn't a bad gig in the overall grand scheme of things.

I think it is 1:1 payback if you don't finish. I know if you finish off track (e.g. repeat a year and graduate in 5) the extra time is 1:1 (so an 8 year obligation for 5 years at USUHS).
 
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