Dilemma regarding new DO program and Air Force HPSP

[allanMED15]

I was recently accepted to a brand new DO school (University of the Incarnate Word) in San Antonio. I have been working through the application process for the Air Force HPSP and am just about to go through MEPS. After my acceptance, I learned that the Air Force does not deem eligible schools with provisional accreditation for HPSP. That being said, I feel that in my gut that the school is where I am supposed to go, for now. I have several MD programs that are well established that I am still waiting to hear from.

What should I do here? My friend who is a 1LT in the Air Force mentioned seeing about getting an "exception to policy" but I was under the impression that would mainly apply to medical waivers.
I have a great desire to serve under HPSP (come from a military family, grew up around Fort Campbell, and I understand the commitment I am getting into).

I am reaching out to Army and Navy recruiters (provisional accreditation is fine with them) to get some more info on the process, but since it is so late, I do not think the chances would be good for this cycle.

I am also considering taking this acceptance and continuing the application process with the Air Force in the hope that I will get into one of the other schools that will be eligible. If not, I would probably go for the first year and then apply for one of the other branches for my 2nd year.

Does this sound like a solid plan or are there any factors I am missing out on?

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[SurgDoc95]

I was recently accepted to a brand new DO school (University of the Incarnate Word) in San Antonio. I have been working through the application process for the Air Force HPSP and am just about to go through MEPS. After my acceptance, I learned that the Air Force does not deem eligible schools with provisional accreditation for HPSP. That being said, I feel that in my gut that the school is where I am supposed to go, for now. I have several MD programs that are well established that I am still waiting to hear from.

What should I do here? My friend who is a 1LT in the Air Force mentioned seeing about getting an "exception to policy" but I was under the impression that would mainly apply to medical waivers.
I have a great desire to serve under HPSP (come from a military family, grew up around Fort Campbell, and I understand the commitment I am getting into).

I am reaching out to Army and Navy recruiters (provisional accreditation is fine with them) to get some more info on the process, but since it is so late, I do not think the chances would be good for this cycle.

I am also considering taking this acceptance and continuing the application process with the Air Force in the hope that I will get into one of the other schools that will be eligible. If not, I would probably go for the first year and then apply for one of the other branches for my 2nd year.

Does this sound like a solid plan or are there any factors I am missing out on?

Don't you have other, more established acceptances? If so, wouldn't it be a better idea to go with one of those over a brand new school anyways? Regardless of HPSP selection you'd be better off with an more established program IMO plus you wouldn't have these issues with trying to get an exception to policy waiver. Just a thought!

 

[HighPriest]

Go to a different school.

 

[allanMED15]

Don't you have other, more established acceptances? If so, wouldn't it be a better idea to go with one of those over a brand new school anyways? Regardless of HPSP selection you'd be better off with an more established program IMO plus you wouldn't have these issues with trying to get an exception to policy waiver. Just a thought!

Yes I do. I was accepted and I have deposited at UNECOM. A big part of me has this good feeling about UIWSOM and San Antonio and I feel that the clinical and research opportunities in SA far outweigh the opportunities in Biddeford. That being said, I have not ruled out UNECOM. This is mainly to get advice if I do decide to withdraw from UNECOM and go to UIWSOM regarding HPSP.

 

[SirGecko]

You mention applying to the other branches if you decide to go to this school. Are you sure that this is an Air Force specific policy? I wouldn't think the Army and the Navy would be interested in funding a scholarship to a school with a provisional accreditation either but I may be wrong.

 

[allanMED15]

You mention applying to the other branches if you decide to go to this school. Are you sure that this is an Air Force specific policy? I wouldn't think the Army and the Navy would be interested in funding a scholarship to a school with a provisional accreditation either but I may be wrong.

Yes. I am waiting for my recruiter to confirm that the AF does go by this policy but several students have confirmed that in the facebook group. I talked to someone who is a Master's student there now and she mentioned that the Army and Navy came to talk to the students there last week, so it seems that they are ok with it.

I also thought the same thing, but apparently the standards are different, which is surprising.

 

[SeminoleFan3]

Yes I do. I was accepted and I have deposited at UNECOM. A big part of me has this good feeling about UIWSOM and San Antonio and I feel that the clinical and research opportunities in SA far outweigh the opportunities in Biddeford. That being said, I have not ruled out UNECOM. This is mainly to get advice if I do decide to withdraw from UNECOM and go to UIWSOM regarding HPSP.

Wouldn't base a big decision like this on a "good feeling." Likely much better to go with the already established school.

 

[deleted480308]

Something is off, I have friends on Air Force hpsp at schools that haven't graduated a class yet

 

[Cooperd0g]

Your "good feeling" is just that, a "feeling." I don't recommend anyone make major life decisions solely on a "feeling." Some of these newer DO schools don't even have inpatient rotations. How much do you know about their educational plans and how it compares to more established schools?

 

[allanMED15]

Something is off, I have friends on Air Force hpsp at schools that haven't graduated a class yet

Yea I thought it was interesting too. But this info has just come from students in the incoming class. I'm talking to my recruiter tomorrow about it.

 

[allanMED15]

Your "good feeling" is just that, a "feeling." I don't recommend anyone make major life decisions solely on a "feeling." Some of these newer DO schools don't even have inpatient rotations. How much do you know about their educational plans and how it compares to more established schools?

The curriculum is just like UNECOM in delivery and they already have rotation relationships set up with the major hospitals in San Antonio including SAMMC. They also have their own in house residencies started up too.
They also have plans to start a military track in the next few years like one of the founding members did when they open up RVUCOM. It could be cool to be apart of potentially developing that.

 

[MaximusD]

Yes I do. I was accepted and I have deposited at UNECOM. A big part of me has this good feeling about UIWSOM and San Antonio and I feel that the clinical and research opportunities in SA far outweigh the opportunities in Biddeford. That being said, I have not ruled out UNECOM. This is mainly to get advice if I do decide to withdraw from UNECOM and go to UIWSOM regarding HPSP.

no contest, UNECOM. Don't screw this up.

 

[deleted480308]

The curriculum is just like UNECOM in delivery and they already have rotation relationships set up with the major hospitals in San Antonio including SAMMC. They also have their own in house residencies started up too.
They also have plans to start a military track in the next few years like one of the founding members did when they open up RVUCOM. It could be cool to be apart of potentially developing that.

"Military tracks" are for brochures. There isn't a really substantive use for something different

 

[Cooperd0g]

The curriculum is just like UNECOM in delivery and they already have rotation relationships set up with the major hospitals in San Antonio including SAMMC. They also have their own in house residencies started up too.
They also have plans to start a military track in the next few years like one of the founding members did when they open up RVUCOM. It could be cool to be apart of potentially developing that.

Just an FYI, RVUCOM does not have inpatient rotations. I know recent grads who didn't do an inpatient rotation until they were an intern and it was rough.

 

[allanMED15]

"Military tracks" are for brochures. There isn't a really substantive use for something different

I can understand that. I guess I just thought that with how big SAMMC is in SA that could be a substantial program. Then again I haven't come across anything like that at any other school either.

 

[allanMED15]

Just an FYI, RVUCOM does not have inpatient rotations. I know recent grads who didn't do an inpatient rotation until they were an intern and it was rough.

I guess I'm confused on what you mean by inpatient rotations. Would really any surgical rotation qualify as that? Or do you mean along the lines of working with a single preceptor vs. working in a resident/attending model?
I can definitely see the struggle if all the rotations were the former.
But regarding UIWSOM on that, I don't know completely. At the interview day that was a question I asked, and they said it mainly depended on the rotation site and what they had in the hospital.

 

[deleted707454]

Portland/Biddeford is waayy cooler than San Antonio anyday, too.

 

[allanMED15]

no contest, UNECOM. Don't screw this up.

Thanks for your advice. By the way, your AMA thread was very beneficial in helping me to decide to go through HPSP.

 

[pgg]

I can understand that. I guess I just thought that with how big SAMMC is in SA that could be a substantial program. Then again I haven't come across anything like that at any other school either.

What do you mean by "military track"?

I went to USUHS and obviously that place has a pretty well-integrated military curriculum tacked onto the regular med school classes. But I honestly didn't (and don't) feel like they added much value to me. I learned the important military-isms when I left and went to the fleet as a GMO and when I deployed.

Don't overthink this. Being the kind of military officer a doctor needs to be isn't really that hard. We're not line guys who actually need to master land nav, comms, weapon systems, and so on.

Don't pick a med school based on extracurriculars. And everything that isn't the core medical currriculum is emphatically extra-curricular and a time sink of dubious real value.

The line likes its doctors to look and act like them, but the military needs doctors, not medical corps doofuses who think they're at adventure summer camp. Be the doctor they need, not what they think they want.

 

[Cooperd0g]

Inpaitient - hospital based practice where patients remain in the hospital overnight, sometimes for many days, with ongoing treatment by a team that typically consists of an attending, resident, intern(s) and maybe medical students. Involves close work with nurses, consulting services and disposition planning.

Outpatient - clinic (integrated, specialty specific or hospital) based medicine. Patients come in for an appointment and leave after appointment.

 

[allanMED15]

Inpaitient - hospital based practice where patients remain in the hospital overnight, sometimes for many days, with ongoing treatment by a team that typically consists of an attending, resident, intern(s) and maybe medical students. Involves close work with nurses, consulting services and disposition planning.

Outpatient - clinic (integrated, specialty specific or hospital) based medicine. Patients come in for an appointment and leave after appointment.

Ok yea I understand. That's the original definition that I know, but I am very surprised they don't have any rotations like that. Interesting.

 

[allanMED15]

What do you mean by "military track"?

I went to USUHS and obviously that place has a pretty well-integrated military curriculum tacked onto the regular med school classes. But I honestly didn't (and don't) feel like they added much value to me. I learned the important military-isms when I left and went to the fleet as a GMO and when I deployed.

Don't overthink this. Being the kind of military officer a doctor needs to be isn't really that hard. We're not line guys who actually need to master land nav, comms, weapon systems, and so on.

Don't pick a med school based on extracurriculars. And everything that isn't the core medical currriculum is emphatically extra-curricular and a time sink of dubious real value.

The line likes its doctors to look and act like them, but the military needs doctors, not medical corps doofuses who think they're at adventure summer camp. Be the doctor they need, not what they think they want.

I don't have details but I would guess it involves several core rotations being completed at SAMMC rather than in their other locations.

That is a really great perspective, thank you for that.

 

[SirGecko]

Just an FYI, RVUCOM does not have inpatient rotations. I know recent grads who didn't do an inpatient rotation until they were an intern and it was rough.

How can a school possibly claim to have trained a doctor without a single inpatient rotation? That is baffling.

I don't have details but I would guess it involves several core rotations being completed at SAMMC rather than in their other locations.

That is a really great perspective, thank you for that.

The only potentially benefit I am see from that is it would give you exposure to the hospital so that they know who you are a little better if you apply to residency there. Even that benefit is probably not super important as you would be doing rotations in fourth year at the residency program you want to apply to anyway. Any other "military track" activities that they would offer would be highly unlikely to have any impact on your career and should not weigh in at all to your decision to go to that school.

 

[allanMED15]

I would be really surprised if this was allowed.

Why is that? From what I understand, they have already been negotiating with the hospital about getting those set up for HPSP students.

 

[allanMED15]

After some thought, I am almost certain I will be attending UNECOM if I do not get accepted from any of the 3 MD programs I am waiting to hear from. According to the Army Recruiter I talked to this morning, the Army does not provide the scholarship to provisionally accredited schools either. I am not sure where the misinformation is or what the truth really is.
Everyone has given great advice on this thread, and I really appreciate it. The extracurricular opportunities in SA do not outweigh the risk of attending a brand new school without a proven track record.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Cooperd0g]

I would be really surprised if this was allowed.

Why? Non-HPSP medical and PA students from EVMS rotate at NMCP all the time. University of Washington students rotate at Bremerton NH for family medicine (or at least they did a few years ago).

 

[psychbender]

I would be really surprised if this was allowed.

My med school didn't specifically call it a military track, but all of the HPSP students (20-something out of a class of 140-something) were allowed to do most of our core third year rotations at Ft Bragg or Portsmouth, if we asked. The school set up training agreements for both hospitals for all of our core (Peds, OB, IM, Family, Gen Surg, etc). They were all non-ADT rotations, so all expenses were on the students, but many of us spent several months at one of those. I did Peds and OB at Bragg, because I knew the volume would be there, and I didn't have a strong attachment to doing them at my core training hospital.

 

[Monty Python]

Just an FYI, RVUCOM does not have inpatient rotations. I know recent grads who didn't do an inpatient rotation until they were an intern and it was rough.

Did they not even do inpatient OB or Psyc as a student?

 

[SurgDoc95]

KCU has a military honors track but from what I've heard it's not anything special

 

[BetaAlpha89]

I was recently accepted to a brand new DO school (University of the Incarnate Word) in San Antonio. I have been working through the application process for the Air Force HPSP and am just about to go through MEPS. After my acceptance, I learned that the Air Force does not deem eligible schools with provisional accreditation for HPSP. That being said, I feel that in my gut that the school is where I am supposed to go, for now. I have several MD programs that are well established that I am still waiting to hear from.

What should I do here? My friend who is a 1LT in the Air Force mentioned seeing about getting an "exception to policy" but I was under the impression that would mainly apply to medical waivers.
I have a great desire to serve under HPSP (come from a military family, grew up around Fort Campbell, and I understand the commitment I am getting into).

I am reaching out to Army and Navy recruiters (provisional accreditation is fine with them) to get some more info on the process, but since it is so late, I do not think the chances would be good for this cycle.

I am also considering taking this acceptance and continuing the application process with the Air Force in the hope that I will get into one of the other schools that will be eligible. If not, I would probably go for the first year and then apply for one of the other branches for my 2nd year.

Does this sound like a solid plan or are there any factors I am missing out on?

Air Force will grant HPSP to students enrolling at new DO schools with provisional accreditation. I went to a new D.O. school and took the 3 yr HPSP scholarship, and know several others through ADTs who were AF HPSP at new schools with provisional accreditation. However, enrolling at a new school can have other cons, like not well established rotation sites. But if you were by SAMMC, your school could make an affiliation agreement with them and do lots of your rotations there. I know someone who went to the new Mississippi school, and their DO school made an affiliation agreement with Keesler and they did all their core rotations there.

 

[BetaAlpha89]

After some thought, I am almost certain I will be attending UNECOM if I do not get accepted from any of the 3 MD programs I am waiting to hear from. According to the Army Recruiter I talked to this morning, the Army does not provide the scholarship to provisionally accredited schools either. I am not sure where the misinformation is or what the truth really is.
Everyone has given great advice on this thread, and I really appreciate it. The extracurricular opportunities in SA do not outweigh the risk of attending a brand new school without a proven track record.

Thanks everyone!

Good luck with medical school! But I will add UNECOM seems to have a low first time boards pass rate from the multiple people I know did not pass COMLEX 1 from there.

 

[DrMetal]

I was recently accepted to a brand new DO school (University of the Incarnate Word)

We're kidding, right? When is the 'School of Rock' starting it's DO program?!

 

[psychbender]

We're kidding, right? When is the 'School of Rock' starting it's DO program?!

They just broke ground, so they should have accepted their first class next year. They're combining with the School of Hard Knocks for M1 and 2 until the facilities are finished.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[astrostellar]

FWIW, UNECOM is absolutely beautiful. I miss the area.

 

[allanMED15]

FWIW, UNECOM is absolutely beautiful. I miss the area.

So true! I've never actually lived in New England but only visited for a month at a time because my grandparents live there. So excited to get up there!

 

[BetaAlpha89]

Something is off, I have friends on Air Force hpsp at schools that haven't graduated a class yet

Same, It's a new policy that they're changing. They were talking about it in May when I was rotating there.