Did Not Match...Now what?

[Dr_Topitop]

Hi everyone! Have used studentDoc before, but haven't logged in a while. Anyway, unfortunately match day for GI didn't work out so well. Couple ideas and brainstorming I have done with some GI fellows, attendings, and other medicine staff. I wanted to see what people thought on the forums, and would love to see what people have done in the past that has worked! Before I start with the list, some basic info about myself...

Step 1/2/CS/3: first attempt passes in 220 range
Not chief resident
FMG (ouch, this is hurting me!)
5 DDW poster presentations, 1 DDW oral presentation
2 manuscripts completed, and on pubmed (not first author)
3 manuscripts as first author pending
2 Letters to Editor on ACG
No issues during residency, excellent LORs from GI department, and received academic achievement award and resident teach of year award upon graduation
Unfortunately my resident program does not favor FMG

Some advice I have received, and thought of myself...

(no particular order)

1) Finding a hospitalist position at an academic center that favors FMG and Internal candidates ?
Would this be favorable? After a quick google search, I found that LSU shreveport, Univ of Buffalo, Allegheny, just to name 3 out of about 6-7 places I found that accepts FMGs as GI fellows, in addition to favoring internal canidates. Would working as a Medicine hospitist while doing research with the GI department at these places help with matching into one of these programs over the course of 1-2 years?

2) GI hospitalist?
...Not entirely sure what this is, I have a friend that does this in California, but also didn't workout 2 years now for him unfortunately. Has anyone heard of this position, and if so, can someone explain a bit more about this, and if it would be favorable for Fellowship programs?

3) Research track?
This route can sometimes take many years of dedicated research in GI. This is sometimes recommended for FMGs who need to really set their application apart from AMGs with multiple publications in excellent journals to prove their "worth". Honestly, I personally dont love this option for myself, but for people who don't mind research, it could be a good path.

I personally am leaning towards number 1. Would love to hear from anyone who has done this, or is planning on doing so. I an open to any questions about my CV, and would gladly take any advice on what may help in my next 6-7 months before ERAS opens again. Would love to hear thoughts, opinions on the above. Take care, and happy holidays!

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[Elixir6]

Yikes - sounds like you are having great research output but "pending" publications usually doesn't mean much. The unfortunate FMG thing and probably the "prestige" of your current residency hurt you. It's a tough world out there.

Combining #1 & #3 plans sounds the best.

But what the hell do I know. I am just trolling here to prep for my own GI application in 20 months.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Temple has a backdoor motility fellowship that has often been a way for FMGs to get into GI.

 

[Dr_Topitop]

Temple has a backdoor motility fellowship that has often been a way for FMGs to get into GI.

Thanks for the advice, do you know more about this program, or past experience with this? Any additional info would be great! Thanks.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Thanks for the advice, do you know more about this program, or past experience with this? Any additional info would be great! Thanks.

Not really. I met a guy who did it several years ago.

 

[JLC]

Hi everyone! Have used studentDoc before, but haven't logged in a while. Anyway, unfortunately match day for GI didn't work out so well. Couple ideas and brainstorming I have done with some GI fellows, attendings, and other medicine staff. I wanted to see what people thought on the forums, and would love to see what people have done in the past that has worked! Before I start with the list, some basic info about myself...

Step 1/2/CS/3: first attempt passes in 220 range
Not chief resident
FMG (ouch, this is hurting me!)
5 DDW poster presentations, 1 DDW oral presentation
2 manuscripts completed, and on pubmed (not first author)
3 manuscripts as first author pending
2 Letters to Editor on ACG
No issues during residency, excellent LORs from GI department, and received academic achievement award and resident teach of year award upon graduation
Unfortunately my resident program does not favor FMG

Some advice I have received, and thought of myself...

(no particular order)

1) Finding a hospitalist position at an academic center that favors FMG and Internal candidates ?
Would this be favorable? After a quick google search, I found that LSU shreveport, Univ of Buffalo, Allegheny, just to name 3 out of about 6-7 places I found that accepts FMGs as GI fellows, in addition to favoring internal canidates. Would working as a Medicine hospitist while doing research with the GI department at these places help with matching into one of these programs over the course of 1-2 years?

2) GI hospitalist?
...Not entirely sure what this is, I have a friend that does this in California, but also didn't workout 2 years now for him unfortunately. Has anyone heard of this position, and if so, can someone explain a bit more about this, and if it would be favorable for Fellowship programs?

3) Research track?
This route can sometimes take many years of dedicated research in GI. This is sometimes recommended for FMGs who need to really set their application apart from AMGs with multiple publications in excellent journals to prove their "worth". Honestly, I personally dont love this option for myself, but for people who don't mind research, it could be a good path.

I personally am leaning towards number 1. Would love to hear from anyone who has done this, or is planning on doing so. I an open to any questions about my CV, and would gladly take any advice on what may help in my next 6-7 months before ERAS opens again. Would love to hear thoughts, opinions on the above. Take care, and happy holidays!

How many programs did you apply for and how many interviews did you get? My sense is maybe that you need to apply more broadly, but also realizing you don't have a strong application for a very competitive specialty.

For your first plan I think that is obviously the only path you have if you want to pursue GI next year, there's only so much you can improve on vs just hoping for more luck the next cycle.

I'm not familiar with being a "GI" hospitalist so can't comment.

In terms of research track, I think it'll actually be the other way around (will be harder, not easier) for you if you're thinking its the appropriate track to get into GI when you think its an easier option. First, research track is typically only available at the upper tier programs that typically have a t32 (which is competitive and difficult for programs to get.) In some cases ie MGH they're all research track. I don't know all the research track programs well, but it makes sense that academic programs have expectations for those who want to go to the best programs to be excellent both clinically and in research as they want people who they're hoping will continue advancing the field as a whole and there are enough excellent people who are applying. Publishing NEJM or Science is not going to make up for not being excellent clinically (ie not having stellar step scores, no stellar rec letters, not coming from a stellar med school/residency.) So sure you could try applying research track, but IMO your going to be competing against people with MD/PhD's or those who have extensive research backgrounds and WANT to do research/academic medicine (not just mind doing it) as a career on top of meeting whatever clinical competency a particular program expects. It's a lose/lose scenario.

 

[Dr_Topitop]

How many programs did you apply for and how many interviews did you get? My sense is maybe that you need to apply more broadly, but also realizing you don't have a strong application for a very competitive specialty.

For your first plan I think that is obviously the only path you have if you want to pursue GI next year, there's only so much you can improve on vs just hoping for more luck the next cycle.

.

Thanks for the reply JLC... just to comment on ur remarks:

Interviewed broadly, more so to FMG friendly type programs. I don't think this was the problem, but I agree my application needs to be more competitive for GI, converting more of my abstracts to papers would be a good start.

Regarding the hospitalist plan with research, I know you mentioned this is probably my best path for now. Do you know of any places that this would be an ideal situation, or at least increase my chances?

Thanks again JLC.

 

[JLC]

I would suggest you do a hospitalist position in an area where you could optimize connections and research opportunities. Ideally, Boston (far and away the best place IMO in terms of # of programs and ability to network) followed by NYC, and Chicago.

 

[Dr_Topitop]

I would suggest you do a hospitalist position in an area where you could optimize connections and research opportunities. Ideally, Boston (far and away the best place IMO in terms of # of programs and ability to network) followed by NYC, and Chicago.

Any programs in these areas JLC that you are familiar with? Or FMG friendly ones? ...Also, I know this is has probably been asked numerous times, but does someone have a list of FMG friendly GI programs, or a link to the forum post? Thanks!

 

[poopybutt]

Hi everyone! Have used studentDoc before, but haven't logged in a while. Anyway, unfortunately match day for GI didn't work out so well. Couple ideas and brainstorming I have done with some GI fellows, attendings, and other medicine staff. I wanted to see what people thought on the forums, and would love to see what people have done in the past that has worked! Before I start with the list, some basic info about myself...

Step 1/2/CS/3: first attempt passes in 220 range
Not chief resident
FMG (ouch, this is hurting me!)
5 DDW poster presentations, 1 DDW oral presentation
2 manuscripts completed, and on pubmed (not first author)
3 manuscripts as first author pending
2 Letters to Editor on ACG
No issues during residency, excellent LORs from GI department, and received academic achievement award and resident teach of year award upon graduation
Unfortunately my resident program does not favor FMG

Some advice I have received, and thought of myself...

(no particular order)

1) Finding a hospitalist position at an academic center that favors FMG and Internal candidates ?
Would this be favorable? After a quick google search, I found that LSU shreveport, Univ of Buffalo, Allegheny, just to name 3 out of about 6-7 places I found that accepts FMGs as GI fellows, in addition to favoring internal canidates. Would working as a Medicine hospitist while doing research with the GI department at these places help with matching into one of these programs over the course of 1-2 years?

2) GI hospitalist?
...Not entirely sure what this is, I have a friend that does this in California, but also didn't workout 2 years now for him unfortunately. Has anyone heard of this position, and if so, can someone explain a bit more about this, and if it would be favorable for Fellowship programs?

3) Research track?
This route can sometimes take many years of dedicated research in GI. This is sometimes recommended for FMGs who need to really set their application apart from AMGs with multiple publications in excellent journals to prove their "worth". Honestly, I personally dont love this option for myself, but for people who don't mind research, it could be a good path.

I personally am leaning towards number 1. Would love to hear from anyone who has done this, or is planning on doing so. I an open to any questions about my CV, and would gladly take any advice on what may help in my next 6-7 months before ERAS opens again. Would love to hear thoughts, opinions on the above. Take care, and happy holidays!

I know I'm probably going to be in the minority here but even for an FMG you have quite a large CV and should have matched without issue. I don't see any red flags to speak of and personally I would be more concerned about something else you're not seeing. Maybe personality? Poor letters? Poor word of mouth?

I say this because I'm a US grad that matched with less than half of your CV, significantly lower board scores and got >10 interviews with love emails from at least half of them prior to the match. I'm not saying these things to brag, but to say make sure you're not missing big red flags in your application that wouldn't be overcome just by becoming a GI hospitalist or doing some back door fellowship to guarantee you a position. Nothing is guaranteed in life. Doing any hospitalist years won't make you more competitive.. it's all in who you know and who is going to go to bat for you.

So however you can meet the right people.. do that. However you can fix your application.. do that. You have enough to get noticed. Figure out what's holding programs back once they see your CV.

 

[Dr_Topitop]

I know I'm probably going to be in the minority here but even for an FMG you have quite a large CV and should have matched without issue. I don't see any red flags to speak of and personally I would be more concerned about something else you're not seeing. Maybe personality? Poor letters? Poor word of mouth?

I say this because I'm a US grad that matched with less than half of your CV, significantly lower board scores and got >10 interviews with love emails from at least half of them prior to the match. I'm not saying these things to brag, but to say make sure you're not missing big red flags in your application that wouldn't be overcome just by becoming a GI hospitalist or doing some back door fellowship to guarantee you a position. Nothing is guaranteed in life. Doing any hospitalist years won't make you more competitive.. it's all in who you know and who is going to go to bat for you.

So however you can meet the right people.. do that. However you can fix your application.. do that. You have enough to get noticed. Figure out what's holding programs back once they see your CV.

Thanks for my reply, and advice. No red flags on my application at all. i was personally told by my own program that its because of being FMG. I have heard this from other programs as well. Unfortunately it does make a huge difference for a very competitive field.

 

[Merely]

I know I'm probably going to be in the minority here but even for an FMG you have quite a large CV and should have matched without issue. I don't see any red flags to speak of and personally I would be more concerned about something else you're not seeing. Maybe personality? Poor letters? Poor word of mouth?

I say this because I'm a US grad that matched with less than half of your CV, significantly lower board scores and got >10 interviews with love emails from at least half of them prior to the match. I'm not saying these things to brag, but to say make sure you're not missing big red flags in your application that wouldn't be overcome just by becoming a GI hospitalist or doing some back door fellowship to guarantee you a position. Nothing is guaranteed in life. Doing any hospitalist years won't make you more competitive.. it's all in who you know and who is going to go to bat for you.

So however you can meet the right people.. do that. However you can fix your application.. do that. You have enough to get noticed. Figure out what's holding programs back once they see your CV.

Did you go to a strong residency or have people calling for you?

 

[poopybutt]

Did you go to a strong residency or have people calling for you?

No one called for me.

As far as residency - large academic program. Would consider it pretty strong. Not a chief resident - was asked but did not see a point in an extra year of residency when I already knew what I wanted to do.

 

[Merely]

No one called for me.

As far as residency - large academic program. Would consider it pretty strong. Not a chief resident - was asked but did not see a point in an extra year of residency when I already knew what I wanted to do.

I don't really know much, but I feel like you might have a great personality/interviewing skills since GI is supposedly super competitive but you had low board scores and not a great CV but managed 10 interviews which seems like a lot! Maybe though since you went to a strong residency that really helped. Also, when you say large academic are you talking like top 10-20 program? Cause that's prolly the reason if that's the case

 

[Gastrapathy]

This is all IMG vs US MD. Google charting outcomes specialty match from 2013. It starts around page 50. There doesn't have to be anything else "wrong" with the OP

 

[Merely]

This is all IMG vs US MD. Google charting outcomes specialty match from 2013. It starts around page 50. There doesn't have to be anything else "wrong" with the OP

Wow I just looked that up, the disparity is insane! A 230 step 1 gets you an 85 percent chance of match as an AMG but like a 45 percent chance as an IMG. Thank god I went to a USMD school...

 

[Gastrapathy]

Thanks for my reply, and advice. No red flags on my application at all. i was personally told by my own program that its because of being FMG. I have heard this from other programs as well. Unfortunately it does make a huge difference for a very competitive field.

Probably too late, but what about staying for the chief year? Might help.

 

[Scope guy]

I know I'm probably going to be in the minority here but even for an FMG you have quite a large CV and should have matched without issue. I don't see any red flags to speak of and personally I would be more concerned about something else you're not seeing. Maybe personality? Poor letters? Poor word of mouth?

I say this because I'm a US grad that matched with less than half of your CV, significantly lower board scores and got >10 interviews with love emails from at least half of them prior to the match. I'm not saying these things to brag, but to say make sure you're not missing big red flags in your application that wouldn't be overcome just by becoming a GI hospitalist or doing some back door fellowship to guarantee you a position. Nothing is guaranteed in life. Doing any hospitalist years won't make you more competitive.. it's all in who you know and who is going to go to bat for you.

So however you can meet the right people.. do that. However you can fix your application.. do that. You have enough to get noticed. Figure out what's holding programs back once they see your CV.

This is unfortunate truth that IMGs on visa live with. There is blatant bias against hiring visa requiring IMGs. So much so that chair of medicine will get involved if GI program directors hire IMGs instead of AMGs, especially if one of their in house applicant goes unmatched for whatsoever reason.

 

[Scope guy]

Wow I just looked that up, the disparity is insane! A 230 step 1 gets you an 85 percent chance of match as an AMG but like a 45 percent chance as an IMG. Thank god I went to a USMD school...

The real IMG on visa match rate in GI is somewhere in 15 to 20%. If everyone who desired to apply for GI applied, the rate for IMGs will be less than 10%. Many prospective IMGs never been bother to apply GI despite having interest, coz it is impossible to match from a lot of comm programs.

 

[Merely]

The real IMG on visa match rate in GI is somewhere in 15 to 20%. If everyone who desired to apply for GI applied, the rate for IMGs will be less than 10%. Many prospective IMGs never been bother to apply GI despite having interest, coz it is impossible to match from a lot of comm programs.

What about a place like Cleveland clinic? It's community but what would you venture chances to match from their IM program? As a USMD and as an IMG cuz they have lots of IMGs there

 

[Scope guy]

What about a place like Cleveland clinic? It's community but what would you venture chances to match from their IM program? As a USMD and as an IMG cuz they have lots of IMGs there

That's where common sense should prevail rather than community or univ status. CCF is among the top programs in the country who take the cream IMGs. U ll
Match anywhere from Cleveland clinic