Describe your typical week in practice

[Therapist4Chnge]

I thought it may be helpful to applicants/students/others to list and/or describe a typical week of practice in your given setting. People don't need to keep my formatting, I just chose it bc it fits how I break down my time.

Setting: Academic Med: (PM&R in-pt consult, out-pt neuropsych, research)
Direct Pt Contact: 10-15hr in-pt, 3-6hr out-pt. For in-pt I do initial eval consults, a bit of supportive therapy, capacity evals, brief cog eval, risk evals, and pt/family education. Out-pt neuropsych...only interview intakes and feedback sessions (w. an additional 10-25hr of weekly testing & scoring done by psychometricians).
Notes/Report Writing: 8-10hr in-pt, 10-15hr out-pt...which includes quite a bit of digging through med records.
Clinical Mtgs: 3-4hr. Team meetings and impromptu gatherings to talk about acute pt problems.
Consultation Time: 2-4hr w. physicians, therapists, nurses, etc.

Administrative Paperwork:4-6hr (mostly billing, some e-mailing about mtgs)
Administrative Mtgs: 1-3hr

Research Mtgs: 2-3hr
Research Writing/Reading/Stat'ing: 4-8hr
Journal Reading/Review 3-5hr
Total Hrs/wk: ~50-60hr.

My only caveat is that I have a lot of flexibility in my wk, so I could cut down to 40-45hr/wk...but I'd miss out on a lot of really interesting research and related activities that I typically enjoy.

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[PHD12]

Great Idea, T4C!

Position: postdoctoral fellow, part of formal postdoc, reputable institution (I try to remain anonymous
Direct patient hours: 22-26 hours each week, including intakes and groups
Returning phone calls from patients/interdisciplinary consultation: 2-3 hours per week
Notes/Report/Intake Writing: 13-15 hours, includes intakes, assessments, weekly notes
Team/Clinical Meetings: 3 hours per week
Supervision/Training Seminars: 6 hours per week, but can be as high as 10 hours
Research/Supervision of students : 5-6 hours per week
Lunch break: 10-15 minutes per day while catching up on emails
Preparing for psychotherapy sessions/professional reading: 8-10 hours per week (this only happens on weekends)

Total time: about 60-65 hours per week. Pretty much all the postdocs are burnt out even though the training is excellent. Note that I do not have time to do professional reading or preparing for sessions during the week so I have to find time for this on weekends.

Based on my experiences and those of my colleagues colleagues, I would recommend not taking a position that requires more than 25 hours of patient contact per week. Anything more than that can easily turn into 12 hour days and long weekends if you include all the note writing, paperwork, phone calls, crises, meetings, and other administrative duties. The position would be ideal if I was working 15 less hours per week and had breaks.

 

[NeuroTrope]

Position: Postdoctoral fellow, part of formal postdoc, reputable institution (I try to remain anonymous...too!)
Direct patient hours: 8-12 hours each week, all neuropsychology intakes, interviews, testing, feedback
Returning phone calls from patients/interdisciplinary consultation: 2-3 hours per week
Notes/Report/Intake Writing: 4-6 hours, mostly report writing but also billing, updating EMR, etc.
Team/Clinical Meetings: 1-2 hours per week
Supervision/Training Seminars: 8-10 hours per week, particularly around didactics
Research: 15-20 hours per week plus weekends
Supervision of students: 3-5 hours per week
Lunch break: 10 minutes to 90 minutes if I feel like it

Total time: about 45-60 hours per week. Tons of flexible research time and clinical load is low. I have the option to not work as hard as this - I could take a 30 hour week or less if need be, though repeated incidents of this would be bad. I highly recommend taking a research post doc with some clinical delivery for licensure/board certification if you enjoy research!

 

[erg923]

Position: ICF/MR center and associated community group homes. Psychologist and Clinical Services Director (I am one of 2 for the facility).

Direct patient hours: Minimal, although I spend time on units interacting with residents and do observations/data collections, and caregiver interviews as needed. Some adaptive assessments are given as needed, but at least annually. Formal IQ/cognitive testing is generally not done due to low functioning level of the residents. Although I did just do a PPVT the other day. That, apparently, is a big deal here.

Notes/Report/Intake Writing: 16-20 hours/week, Everything from court paper work, to emails, to annual case write ups, to data analysis and associated behavior plan formulation/writing.

Team/Clinical Meetings: 6-8 hours per week.

Court hearing/inquests: about 2 days a month I am downtown half the day for commitment renewal hearings.

Supervision/Training Seminars: I am responsible for over seeing masters level BAs and other MH clinicians. I inservice direct care staff as needed on behavior plans/protocols I write as well. I also supervise and delegate to behavior techs on the floor who do lot of my behavioral observations and data collection.

Research: none currently

Supervision of students: none but we are developing a practicum for a BA masters program at a local university.

Lunch break: half hour to an hour

Total time: 37.5 - 42 hours per week. Sometimes I am there by 7. Sometimes I get there at 830. I'm not punchin a clock here, folks. There is no "plus weekends" for my job.
The "on-call" is for one week every 8 weeks and is usually quiet and rarely requires coming in. I am compensated by getting a paid day-off the week following my call week.

 

[PsyDr]

Position: Independent practice neuropsych with academic affiliations in an R1.

Direct patient hours: substantial.

Notes/Report/Intake Writing: usually 8pm-12am/daily.

Team/Clinical Meetings: 2hrs per week for surgical cases.

Court hearing/inquests: 3 depositions per month. 2 hearings.

Supervision/Training Seminars: None. Occasionally I will present research to residents.

Research: I am Co-I in 4 studies, with another in IRB at this time.

Supervision of students:I have one post doc who cannot keep up.

Lunch break: none

Total time: 60-100hrs/week.

monday, tuesday: 8-6 forensic neuropsych practice. drive home, 1.5hrs away. write reports until 11-12. Sometimes there is a hearing, which are typically calling me in on Tuesday. That means a travel day to the location. This can mean a 20hr day.

wednesday: outpatient neuropsych practice for neurosurgery. 8am-3ishpm, 3pm-7pm inpatient neuropsych, write reports when i get home. Sometimes I have a video conference with foreign firms, which can mean I have to stay up very late to go over things.

thursday: forensic neuropsych practice: 6am-6pm, write reports when i get home, review documents, depo prep, travel days if called to go somewhere.

friday: research position for an R1. Do researchy things. 9-5ish. 5PM-?? inpaitnet work. Then once a month the research team meets for dinner. If there is nothing on the research that week then I consult for one of 3 international organizations which contract with me for various research stuff which will never be published.

Saturday:9-6 inpatient neuropsych, family conferences, or consultant research or document review

sunday: same as saturday.

 

[erg923]

Position: Independent practice neuropsych with academic affiliations in an R1.

Direct patient hours: substantial.

Notes/Report/Intake Writing: usually 8pm-12am/daily.

Team/Clinical Meetings: 2hrs per week for surgical cases.

Court hearing/inquests: 3 depositions per month. 2 hearings.

Supervision/Training Seminars: None. Occasionally I will present research to residents.

Research: I am Co-I in 4 studies, with another in IRB at this time.

Supervision of students:I have one post doc who cannot keep up.

Lunch break: none

Total time: 60-100hrs/week.

monday, tuesday: 8-6 forensic neuropsych practice. drive home, 1.5hrs away. write reports until 11-12. Sometimes there is a hearing, which are typically calling me in on Tuesday. That means a travel day to the location. This can mean a 20hr day.

wednesday: outpatient neuropsych practice for neurosurgery. 8am-3ishpm, 3pm-7pm inpatient neuropsych, write reports when i get home. Sometimes I have a video conference with foreign firms, which can mean I have to stay up very late to go over things.

thursday: forensic neuropsych practice: 6am-6pm, write reports when i get home, review documents, depo prep, travel days if called to go somewhere.

friday: research position for an R1. Do researchy things. 9-5ish. 5PM-?? inpaitnet work. Then once a month the research team meets for dinner. If there is nothing on the research that week then I consult for one of 3 international organizations which contract with me for various research stuff which will never be published.

Saturday:9-6 inpatient neuropsych, family conferences, or consultant research or document review

sunday: same as saturday.

Lunch is for wimps, huh Mr. Geico?

Uh, does your spouse hate you?

 

[PHD12]

Uh, does your spouse hate you?

Why do you work so many hours PsyDR? Is it for the pay or do you love working alot?

 

[erg923]

I hope that we could all degree that 80 hours/week does not represent healthy life-work balance unless you view work as life. If so, well fine. But, I think for most if us, work is called "work" for a reason.

I guess my biggest question is how does one do this during football season? I mean Sunday? Really...?! Hell, I don't leave the couch during the Masters tournament!

 

[Resident92]

Why do you work so many hours PsyDR? Is it for the pay or do you love working alot?

I was going to leave this one alone but I just can't. How do you work so many hours per week and provide competent clinical service? There has to be some level of exhaustion and burn out that plays a role. I know I push myself to work long hours, but nowhere near this notion of 80-100. It just seems over the top.............idk

 

[cara susanna]

Man, I couldn't handle not having a lunch break.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Total time: 60-100hrs/week.

monday, tuesday: 8-6 forensic neuropsych practice. drive home, 1.5hrs away. write reports until 11-12. Sometimes there is a hearing, which are typically calling me in on Tuesday. That means a travel day to the location. This can mean a 20hr day.

wednesday: outpatient neuropsych practice for neurosurgery. 8am-3ishpm, 3pm-7pm inpatient neuropsych, write reports when i get home. Sometimes I have a video conference with foreign firms, which can mean I have to stay up very late to go over things.

thursday: forensic neuropsych practice: 6am-6pm, write reports when i get home, review documents, depo prep, travel days if called to go somewhere.

friday: research position for an R1. Do researchy things. 9-5ish. 5PM-?? inpaitnet work. Then once a month the research team meets for dinner. If there is nothing on the research that week then I consult for one of 3 international organizations which contract with me for various research stuff which will never be published.

Saturday:9-6 inpatient neuropsych, family conferences, or consultant research or document review

sunday: same as saturday.

I live by the Protestant work ethic too, but this is a bit much for anyone...especially the Sunday being the same as Saturday. Holy cow, Man (or Woman)...take one day out to pray, meditate, doing nothing. You, as a clinician in a neuropsych facility, should know better than anyone that the brain and body have limits. Please explain yourself because I completely understand why you experience your post-doc as not being able to keep up. Are you Superman (or Superwoman)?!

Do tell. I need tips on how to do more than humanely possible and stay highly- functional.

Uh, does your spouse hate you?

Are you even married?

Why do you work so many hours PsyDR?

Out of complete respect to you, PSYDR, there's some serious sublimation going on here...

I was going to leave this one alone but I just can't. How do you work so many hours per week and provide competent clinical service? There has to be some level of exhaustion and burn out that plays a role. I know I push myself to work long hours, but nowhere near this notion of 80-100. It just seems over the top.............idk

I have the same questions and concerns. I thought this thread would motivate me, but I can't imagine being married to your work unless there is nothing else. (I treat my work more like a needy child, than a satisifying spouse but that may be because I'm still in training.)

 

[erg923]

I thought the Protestant work ethic was no dancing and no fun? You guys dont even gamble at your summer picnics...

Cara, I eat Tuna with mustard on the side everyday for lunch. Thats it. But in the morning I have dounuts.

 

[bmedclinic]

erg, I've thought it before, but based on this thread alone I think we'd be friends in real life.

For the record, I was a 80 hr a week type prior to marriage, so I can understand that. I'd rather work shorter and harder now, though. I can handle a 60 hr week no prob, as I have a hard working spouse that gets it. More than that though, and I'd think my work would be causing more problems than its helping.

 

[cara susanna]

I thought the Protestant work ethic was no dancing and no fun? You guys dont even gamble at your summer picnics...

Cara, I eat Tuna with mustard on the side everyday for lunch. Thats it. But in the morning I have dounuts.

Oh, that's fine, even if it's 15 minutes to scarf something down! I can't function cognitively if my blood sugar is low.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I thought PSYDR was just being hyperbolic to make a point.

My (formal) postdoc is already set up (I am currently on internship) but it will require a caseload of 10 and receiving supervision for 3 hours a week. The rest of my time I fill in and research is highly expected. However, I have great flexibility (including increased clinical work).

 

[CheetahGirl]

I thought the Protestant work ethic was no dancing and no fun? You guys dont even gamble at your summer picnics...

I understand the Protestant work ethic to be "work is good" and one should never shy away from hard work. I'm not Protestant, I'm Hindu...so I have many angles to identify with when it comes to work being a way to salvation. However, my comments have to do with working to no avail...well, obviously there is an avail because there are grants involved, but holy moly, I wanted to take a holiday just reading PSYDR's post.

For the record, I was a 80 hr a week type prior to marriage, so I can understand that. I'd rather work shorter and harder now, though. I can handle a 60 hr week no prob, as I have a hard working spouse that gets it. More than that though, and I'd think my work would be causing more problems than its helping.

Yes, it's very important to have a spouse that gets it. I have a workacoholic, very successful spouse who is all about "work smarter, not harder." He seems to think if I have to put in more hours so does he...and he does since he's the only one financially supporting our family right now. But, we both make time for fun and our family (we have dinner most every evening together). Because I have a family, I just have to make it all work out and get my work done during business hours and after the kiddos hit the sack. I was just hoping for some respite from the 60+hour a week training/studying that goes on in graduate school. I'm fantasizing about a 35-40 hour a week with pay, but that's me. I'm not aiming for the positions that you guys seem to be working until perhaps later in life...when I have empty nest syndrome and my kids are grown. And who will take me then? Oh...don't you worry your pretty little heads about that! The key to success is specialization in your trade (another derivative of the Protestant work ethic).

 

[Sanman]

I understand the Protestant work ethic to be "work is good" and one should ever shy away from hard work. I'm not Protestant, I'm Hindu...so I have many angles to identify with when it comes to work being a way to salvation.

Yes, it's very important to have a spouse that gets it. I have a workacoholic, very successful spouse who is all about "work smarter, not harder." He seems to think if I have to put in more hours so does he...and he does since he's the only one financially supporting our family right now. But, we both make time for fun and our family (we have dinner most every evening together). Because I have a family, I just have to make it all work out and get my work done during business hours and after the kiddos hit the sack. I was just hoping for some respite from the 60+hour a week training/studying that goes on in graduate school. I'm fantasizing about a 35-40 hour a week with pay, but that's me. I'm not aiming for the positions that you guys seem to be working until perhaps later in life...when I have empty nest syndrome and my kids are grown. And who will take me then? Oh...don't you worry your pretty little heads about that! The key to success is specialization in your trade (another derivative of the Protestant work ethic).

Hey, I am Hindu as well and while I do agree that working hard has been ingrained in me (most likely as part of the immigrant work ethic in this country. Decent scotch, imported beer, and blackjack at my summer picnics have been a part of my experience as well.

One of the things I do like about this profession is the flexibility. If you want more time for family, it is easy to take a salaries position for $50-60k that is 40hrs/wk max and if you want to own a practice with multiple others working for you or bring in large grants to an academic institution, you can do that as well. You just don't have the option of working fewer hours and making a lot of money often, unless you can steal Woody Allen away from his analyst and convince his rolodex of celeb contacts to beat a path to your door. Damn, just gave away my business plan.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Hey, I am Hindu as well and while I do agree that working hard has been ingrained in me (most likely as part of the immigrant work ethic in this country. Decent scotch, imported beer, and blackjack at my summer picnics have been a part of my experience as well.

One of the things I do like about this profession is the flexibility. If you want more time for family, it is easy to take a salaries position for $50-60k that is 40hrs/wk max and if you want to own a practice with multiple others working for you or bring in large grants to an academic institution, you can do that as well. You just don't have the option of working fewer hours and making a lot of money often, unless you can steal Woody Allen away from his analyst and convince his rolodex of celeb contacts to beat a path to your door. Damn, just gave away my business plan.

Namaste, Sanman. Thank you for this, and now I can go back to fantasizing about my ideal job. I'm not planning a private practice for a long time, so no worries about encroaching on your future clients (aka Woody Allen's contacts).

And ditto on the decent scotch (Johnnie Walker Black - I can detect it a mile away) and imported beer, which I attribute to the British Invasion. I prefer Vodka...and Lenin & Stalin (although I'm not communist). Power to the people!

 

[PsyDr]

damn, I did not think this was going to turn into the PsyDr show.

The answer as to why I work so much is long, boring, and personal. It is not about the money. I'm either passionate, hyper competitive, personality disordered, come from a family or a combination of those. I have consulted an analyst for psychoanalytic diagnosis in the past.

As for competence: The literature indicates that self appraisal for competence is useless. My colleagues, opposing experts, and people with much better education than I, find me competent and repeatedly request my services at all hours.

I have an extremely tolerant girlfriend who will undoubtedly put on the brakes on my behavior at some point.

I was joking about eating being for the weak, although I do not eat lunch.

 

[erg923]

damn, I did not think this was going to turn into the PsyDr show.

The answer as to why I work so much is long, boring, and personal. It is not about the money. I'm either passionate, hyper competitive, personality disordered, come from a family or a combination of those. I have consulted an analyst for psychoanalytic diagnosis in the past.

As for competence: The literature indicates that self appraisal for competence is useless. My colleagues, opposing experts, and people with much better education than I, find me competent and repeatedly request my services at all hours.

I have an extremely tolerant girlfriend who will undoubtedly put on the brakes on my behavior at some point.

I was joking about eating being for the weak, although I do not eat lunch.

I am in no postion to tell anyone how to live, but I just think that due to the nature of this profession, we all should value the importance of being human...as well as living healthy lifestyles. And, if all that you wrote was true, I wondered about professional burnout, sleep hygiene/health, aerobic/physical health, interpersonal relationships, outside interests/hobbies.

And, yes, the Lord did indeed say to rest on the Sabbath, PSYDR.

 

[CheetahGirl]

damn, I did not think this was going to turn into the PsyDr show.

The answer as to why I work so much is long, boring, and personal. It is not about the money. I'm either passionate, hyper competitive, personality disordered, come from a family or a combination of those. I have consulted an analyst for psychoanalytic diagnosis in the past.

As for competence: The literature indicates that self appraisal for competence is useless. My colleagues, opposing experts, and people with much better education than I, find me competent and repeatedly request my services at all hours.

I have an extremely tolerant girlfriend who will undoubtedly put on the brakes on my behavior at some point.

I was joking about eating being for the weak, although I do not eat lunch.

That Marilyn Manson song, The Dope Show, was playing out in my head, PSYDR...

Thank goodness! Carry on then, and more power to you. And when girlfriend puts the brakes on ...give her a big kiss from me because it will be about time, as erg923 stated the important reasons why.

[That's one of the reasons why my avatar is a cheetah...they run best in short-sprints (0 to 60mph in 3 sec!), but are not suited for long, boring, slow runs. I admire the species in priniciple...although as a human runner, I need my long, slow runs for sanity's sake.]

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm fantasizing about a 35-40 hour a week with pay, but that's me. I'm not aiming for the positions that you guys seem to be working until perhaps later in life...

The 35-40hr work week was really confusing to me at first, though now I understand how valuable that kind of job is within the context of our field. I choose to work more now, though I have no qualms about stepping off of the gas when my needs shift. Right now I need to play catch-up with my retirement and toy collection.

 

[PHD12]

damn, I did not think this was going to turn into the PsyDr show.

The answer as to why I work so much is long, boring, and personal. It is not about the money. I'm either passionate, hyper competitive, personality disordered, come from a family or a combination of those. I have consulted an analyst for psychoanalytic diagnosis in the past.

As for competence: The literature indicates that self appraisal for competence is useless. My colleagues, opposing experts, and people with much better education than I, find me competent and repeatedly request my services at all hours.

I

I don't think anyone should judge you for this. I have met several people who work a ton of hours and stay sharp/focused and very competent throughout my training. It's not for everyone, but some people really don't need much sleep and have different energy levels. I also know people who feel awful if they get more than 6 hours of sleep. Wish I had that problem

 

[erg923]

I dont think anyone was judging, but it is interesting to note that if we had a patient present to us, even if he did not show signs of impairment, we would likely "explore" what else he/she might be excluding in their life due to work...wouldn't we?

 

[PHD12]

I dont think anyone was judging, but it is interesting to note that if we had a patient present to us, even if he did show signs of impairment, we would likely "explore" what else he/she might be excluding in their life due to work...wouldn't we?

Yeah, but it depends on the person's values and goals. There are many people who see their 20's and 30's as the best time to focus and advance their career, especially before having children, so working 60 hours does not feel like a sacrifice. I wouldn't personally go over about 60 hours though.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'm not sure; I'd say ultimately, the biggest sticking point would be whether or not it's upsetting to the person and/or causing them any distress or disruption in their life. Although obviously if the person were presenting to us, it'd likely be the case that it was.

We frequently use physicians as a basis of comparison, and I'm sure many of them probably wouldn't bat an eyelash at hearing that a colleague had worked/was working 80-100 hours/week. Same seems to go for investment bankers, particularly early in their careers. It's all relative.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I'm not sure; I'd say ultimately, the biggest sticking point would be whether or not it's upsetting to the person and/or causing them any distress or disruption in their life. Although obviously if the person were presenting to us, it'd likely be the case that it was.

We frequently use physicians as a basis of comparison, and I'm sure many of them probably wouldn't bat an eyelash at hearing that a colleague had worked/was working 80-100 hours/week. Same seems to go for investment bankers, particularly early in their careers. It's all relative.

Keep them coming. This is a great thread idea T4C.

 

[IT514]

The talk about families and 1,500 hour work weeks takes me back to my first year as a grad student. I was just married, both of us in grad school, so we didnt mind and in fact supported each other well while putting in absurd hours. Five years later, we have a child. Shes working 5-10 hours/week consulting from home (wife, not the kid...isnt that a 9 month milestone?) and I'm a first year fellow. Things change. In that context, here is my typical work week.

Position: Neuropsych fellow, multispecialty medical clinic/research center. Level one trauma center.
Direct patient contact/week: 3 outpatient evals, 2-10 inpatient consults, mainly acute TBI neurosurgery consults, some capacity evals for general med. Rotations through pre/post surg for Parkinsons and tumor, Wadas, other epilepsy consults, etc.
Research, Training Seminars: 6 hours combined neuropsych, neuroscience, psychiatry didactics and grand rounds
Supervision: 2-4 hours depending on patient load
Lunch break: 10-30 minutes, but I could take longer. My work is usually more interesting than my lunch.
Total time:45-60 (?). Who cares...I get to see my wife and daughter before and after work, and sometimes I can walk home during lunch. I get paid fairly well for where I live, so I cant really complain. We dont do inpatient consults after 4pm, or on weekends, which helps. I also made it 100% clear on post-doc interviews that family is my number one priority.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

The talk about families and 1,500 hour work weeks takes me back to my first year as a grad student. I was just married, both of us in grad school, so we didnt mind and in fact supported each other well while putting in absurd hours. Five years later, we have a child. Shes working 5-10 hours/week consulting from home (wife, not the kid...isnt that a 9 month milestone?) and I'm a first year fellow. Things change. In that context, here is my typical work week.

Position: Neuropsych fellow, multispecialty medical clinic/research center. Level one trauma center.
Direct patient contact/week: 3 outpatient evals, 2-10 inpatient consults, mainly acute TBI neurosurgery consults, some capacity evals for general med. Rotations through pre/post surg for Parkinsons and tumor, Wadas, other epilepsy consults, etc.
Research, Training Seminars: 6 hours combined neuropsych, neuroscience, psychiatry didactics and grand rounds
Supervision: 2-4 hours depending on patient load
Lunch break: 10-30 minutes, but I could take longer. My work is usually more interesting than my lunch.
Total time:45-60 (?). Who cares...I get to see my wife and daughter before and after work, and sometimes I can walk home during lunch. I get paid fairly well for where I live, so I cant really complain. We dont do inpatient consults after 4pm, or on weekends, which helps. I also made it 100% clear on post-doc interviews that family is my number one priority.

This is fairly similar to my current schedule/workload, so I'll basically just say, "me too" to the above. I typically see 4 outpatients per week, although sometimes 1 or 2 of those will be "swapped out" for inpatient evals. We aren't a level one trauma center, so my current inpatient assessments are only a bit shorter than the outpatient variety; not like the ~20 minute bedside screens and repeat follow-up assessments I did in an acute care unit on internship. I also tend to try and follow at least 1 or 2 patients for short- or long-term psychotherapy when possible. Report writing typically works out to probably 8-12 hours per week, depending on how much records review is involved in the cases. Then throw in another probably 1-2 hours per week for feedback (whether to patient or referral source/during rounds, etc.).

Training seminars are ratcheting down a bit during the second year (my fellowship was very front-loaded in that regard, with a five-ish month stretch of 12-15 hours of didactics per week), and research, professional and program development/administration, and supervision (of interns and externs) are starting to pick up more of the slack. I may also try to throw in some teaching as well at some point.

 

[LivingOffLoans]

These are all averages, of course. But I work roughly 50 hours per week. I see <25 patients, which means only half of my time (or less) is actually spent doing therapy. I spend up to 5 hours a week in various meetings, including supervision, consults, peer supervision, billing meetings, etc.... There is also an unbelievable amount of paperwork and administrative stuff, which I would estimate takes up another 5 hours. Then there are a lot of little 'breaks' I have between sessions, which I use to make phone calls, use the bathroom, eat something, etc... And lastly, I spend a good 5-10 hours writing my own process notes and reading articles, which is not really required, but I have to do personally to do therapy the way I need to.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I thought it'd be helpful to bump this for others.

 

[JeyRo]

Position: VA staff psychologist (integrated healthcare). I work in geriatrics. I also have a small consulting practice on the side (I consult at an adult day health facility and I also apparently will soon be providing paid consultation services to an early career psychologist).

Direct patient hours: 20-30 percent of my week. I see 1-2 patients per day average, sometimes for brief contacts, more often for assessments.

Notes/Report/Intake Writing: Maybe 5-10 hours per week. Easily that number can rise when I have a lot of testing consults. I do lots of brief cognitive assessments and some more extended neuropsych batteries on occasion, and capacity assessments.

Team/Clinical Meetings: 4-5 hours per week, includes care planning meetings and administrative meetings.

Court hearing/inquests: None yet!

Supervision/Training Seminars: Occasionally I teach seminars for interns and postdocs maybe 1-2 times per year.

Research: Technically, I do no research (as in projects actively managed by our IRB / Human Subjects committee) - however I typically am working on 2-3 "quality management / quality improvement" projects simultaneously at any one time. I've done posters and some small-scale publications reporting on these projects over the years, currently am preparing a manuscript based on one of my largest ongoing projects. These projects probably take up a handful of hours out of my typical week.

Uncategorizeable administrative / program development stuff: Often find myself working on odd projects that don't neatly fit into my job description. For example, I'm currently working on developing a protocol with our local VA Extended Care Service that communicates procedures for dealing with excessive item storage ("hoarding") in some of our inpatient residential facilities. Not purely a clinical task, but not a purely boring administrative one either.

Professional development: Currently working on getting ABPP'd! In my spare, non-VA time I also spend time maintaining a blog where I expound on issues related to my specialty.

Supervision of students: This year I'm supervising one practicum student. In the past I've supervised two.

Lunch break: half hour to an hour. Depends on how I'm feeling.

Total time: 40 hours per week and not one second more. I have two kids, a wife, and lots of other responsibilities on the side. I love my job, but it's not my life.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Total time: 40 hours per week and not one second more. I have two kids, a wife, and lots of other responsibilities on the side. I love my job, but it's not my life.

This is harder and harder to find out there. Nice!

 

[Lisa44201]

Position: Statistical Analyst at a University Assessment & Testing Center.

Direct patient hours: 0. I am not, nor will I ever be, a clinician. I realize there aren't many non-clinical people on this board, but there are a few of us, so I thought I'd post.

Statistical Analysis / Report Writing: 30-ish hours per week. Stats & reports are my job.

Meetings: 4-5 hours per week at the moment; this is unusually busy, as the annual assessment report to the state Regents for Higher Education is due in two weeks. The office holds a non-voting position on three or four academic committees; those committees usually meet once a month for up to two hours each.

Training Seminars: 3 this semester, probably as many next semester; the administration here has made assessment a priority, so I'm working on several presentations to the faculty dealing with how to assess learning outcomes at the departmental level.

Research: Institutional research falls into my lap as part of my job. It's one of those I-can't-believe-they-pay-me sort of things - no IRB apps, no active data collection on my part, and yet I get these data files.... It's wonderful. I am also encouraged to pursue my own lines of research with any data we have in house.

Uncategorizeable administrative / program development stuff: I'm pretty quick at learning computer software, and as a result am currently the unofficial in-house tech support for the ScanTron. It is not fun. I am also the administrator for the TOEFL and the TOEIC, which happen on weekends, so occasionally I put in a few hours on a Saturday. I am paid extra for those days, and the money is worth it. I am also one of the liasons between this office and the academic departments; the Director and I also assist departments in writing their assessment plans.

Professional development: Attending a conference next week, working on getting certified to administer some more of the national tests we offer. I'm also a PhD student.

Supervision of students: I cannot say enough positive things about my GA. The office has four other student workers, as well.

Lunch break: Eh. Lunch is not my favorite. My husband and my younger daughter come to the office to have lunch with me on Fridays; I can, in theory, take an hour lunch break, but most days end up eating lunch in front of the computer.

Total time: 45-ish hours per week: I'm usually at the office by 7AM (my choice); I am out the door at 5:01PM. I've got a husband and two kids, and am incredibly fortunate to work at a University which is very supportive of families. Besides, I've got a conference to go to right before Halloween, so I need to finish knitting the sweater for my older daughter's costume before I leave, and I really can't knit while I'm working.

 

[erg923]

lunch at your desk results in a crummy keyboard...

 

[KillerDiller]

Oh, why not, I'll join in.

Position: Post-doctoral fellow at a University Counseling Center (formal post-doc)
Direct patient hours: Around 18-20 per week, 50 minute therapy sessions or 50 minute intake assessments
Meetings: 3 hours per week for staff consultation meetings
Training Seminars: 1 hour per week
Supervision: 3 hours per week
Outreach: 0-2 hours per week depending on what programs are happening
Groups: I run 1 group for 1.5 hours per week
Uncategorizeable administrative / program development stuff: 5 hours a week of time set aside for this purpose + any of the 10 or 50 minutes increments I can snatch between clients or during no-shows/cancellations. I have also used this time for research and professional development.
Crisis/ On-Call Walk-in One formal hour per week, but I may have to bump regular clients if there is an emergency at other times.
Lunch break: 5 hours per week. I actually get to take lunch every day for the first time in...well, ever
Teaching: 1 hour per week

Total time: 40.5 hours per week unless there is an outreach program outside of regular business hours.

 

[Pragma]

Oh why not - I saw a non-clinical one in here so I'll bite.

Position: Assistant Professor, part time clinical practice (neuropsychology)

Academic stuff
Actual teaching: 6 hours per week
Supplemental teaching activities (prep, grading, emails, etc): 10 hours per week (varies, was more initially, some weeks hardly anything and some weeks have more grading)
Academic service (committees, meetings, etc): 4 hours per week
Professional development activities (trainings, workshops etc): 2 hours per week
Research (data collection, stats, writing, reading): 16 hours per week
Supervising students: 2 hours per week

~40 hours per week

Lunch break - I just eat at my desk and keep working so I can go home early. Efficiency means more family time. I've got a solid system for keeping the crumbs off the keyboard.

I will say that I often put in more time if I have a lot of writing going on - grants, papers, etc. Easy to do at home. As a more traditional academic, I really have a lot of freedom to set my schedule aside from meetings that I need to go to. Also add in conferences, professional service (e.g., state orgs, reviewing for journals, etc), and some guest talks.

Clinical stuff
Direct patient hours: 4-8 per week
Administrative patient duties/scoring/reports: 3-6 hours per week.

 

[JeyRo]

I should add - I do not, as of yet, have a consistent system for keeping crumbs off of my keyboard.

 

[Lisa44201]

Eat salad. Fewer crumbs.

 

[PsyDr]

ThinkPads have drain holes in them for liquids. I'm betting they work for crumbs too.

 

[erg923]

I thought I would update this thread to say that, while my current position could have been great--interesting population/problems, mix of admin and clinical work, no traditional psychotherapy--IT WAS NOT. ALWAYS ask questions about the state of your facility/intuition (staff moral, turnover, fiscal solvency, strategic plan, etc.) as well as how and who really runs the joint. I realize being in a clinical admin position requires compromises and interacting with folks who don't understand your profession, but I found myself simply unable to tolerate an environment where psychologists (and other similar professional staff) are explicitly presumed incompetent until they prove otherwise. I could go on, but I wont. It was good money for early career, and I would do it over again cause it really helped us stash a good savings and buy our house...but you can't work ONLY for the money.

Anyway, I recently interviewed and accepted a position at my local VA medical center. Outpatient Primary Care Mental Health Integration clinic (PC-MHI; 60% time) and the facility EBT coordinator (40%) . Damn place is like a fortress, so I count myself lucky to have slid in so easily less than 2 years post Ph.D. I think I have finally decided what I want to do when grow-up now...whew.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I thought I would update this thread to say that, while my current position could have been great--interesting population/problems, mix of admin and clinical work, no traditional psychotherapy--IT WAS NOT. ALWAYS ask questions about the state of your facility/intuition (staff moral, turnover, fiscal solvency, strategic plan, etc.) as well as how and who really runs the joint. I realize being in a clinical admin position requires compromises and interacting with folks who don't understand your profession, but I found myself simply unable to tolerate an environment where psychologists (and other similar professional staff) are explicitly presumed incompetent until they prove otherwise. I could go on, but I wont. It was good money for early career, and I would do it over again cause it really helped us stash a good savings and buy our house...but you can't work ONLY for the money.

Anyway, I recently interviewed and accepted a position at my local VA medical center. Outpatient Primary Care Mental Health Integration clinic (PC-MHI; 60% time) and the facility EBT coordinator (40%) . Damn place is like a fortress, so I count myself lucky to have slid in so easily less than 2 years post Ph.D. I think I have finally decided what I want to do when grow-up now...whew.

And unfortunately, even if you ask all the right questions, there's still a chance you'll end up in a position similar to what you've mentioned. Although that's a reality in any field, of course. But it drives home how important it is to not just skate through interviews on auto-pilot, particularly if it's at a place where you don't have direct information on how things work (e.g., from a colleague who's currently employed there).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I know it isn't always possible, but any place I have interviewed for a position I try and talk to as many people who have either worked at the institution, worked with providers there, etc. I want to know as much about how others view the place as much as I want to hear from people who actually work in the dept. This approach saved me from at least two institutions that had cultures that wouldn't have been a good match for what I wanted.

 

[erg923]

The thing is, I always did. This was the ONE time I went in blind (and naive) because of money. Lesson learned, but like I said, the salary this past 6 months did enable us to pay off credit cards, shore up the savings, and beef up the down payment on our house. Its just not a position I can recommend to others, and certainly not something I could tolerate long-term.

But, I am now very happy, and although I had solid scientist-practitioner training, I count myself lucky to have penetrated the VA system here...where people rarely leave.

 

[Sanman]

Congrats ERG! I've interviewed for similar positions, but did not quite get them. Being unlicensed at the crime of the interview did not help. I have identified some decent paying non-va options (comparable to VA pay) that could work for me in the long term, but I definitely agree that facility politics plays a role. I like my area of the field, but my facility sucks as well. My colleagues want to leave as well, but it would involve a large pay cut. Luckily for me, it just means finding nicer facilities to work in.

 

[erg923]

Congrats ERG! I've interviewed for similar positions, but did not quite get them. Being unlicensed at the crime of the interview did not help.

Thats what another member of my internship cohort (2011-2012) told me. He is stuck in the VA morass for a similar position (he interviewed back in September and still no word). It did not seem to be a factor in mine at all, although I have passed EPPP and am taking the state oral next week, so maybe they figured that since I would be licensed by the actual start date, it was a non-issue? I dont know, as no one said anything about it until they told me to wait until i got the license number before the send my materials through the review board for pay grade determination (GS-12 vs GS-13).

I always waffled about my feelings for the VA...until I left it, and found that organizatonal dysfunction is often par for the course and higher in almost every other instuition than it is in the VA. The VA is a well-oiled machine (with some mere questionable policies/praxctices) compared to my current state instituition. In a perfect world, I would stay in small-time academia and see patients on the side, but the money (and the referral base) is just not there. Plus, I like the 8-4, a govenment pension, and no emails or grading papers at home. Plus, this position is probably the best fit for me clinically.... lots of variety and if i cant do it in 6 sessions, referalls are made. Leaves alot of freedom in how conduct my interventions. Brass tacks, so to speak.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

erg…you are making me miss the VA system! The 8-4 and having more flexibility to do follow-up is indeed nice, as private insurance really mucks up treatment in the public sector.

erg, what kind of private practice cases do you see? Therapy, assessment, etc?

 

[erg923]

erg…you are making me miss the VA system! The 8-4 and having more flexibility to do follow-up is indeed nice, as private insurance really mucks up treatment in the public sector.

erg, what kind of private practice cases do you see? Therapy, assessment, etc?

No, no PP at the moment. I am not indepedently licesned yet until next week. I was saying, in a perfect world, a small college faculty gig and small PP on the side would be ideal.

 

[Sanman]

I definitely have to agree with you about the VA. To paraphrase Churchill, the VA is the worst system in which to deliver psychological services, except all those others that have been tried. Oddly for me, all the VAs in the area I am moving to are coordinated by the same director. She has given me multiple interviews for multiple positions and no offer. I have to believe the reason for that is the license even though the positions are advertised as GS 11-13. Luckily, I have multiple offers in geriatrics with the same pay.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I thought this might be useful to bump.