Dental Hygiene/dentist

[determined1]

Hello Everyone, I hope some of you can answer these questions for me.

Is it possible to obtain a undergraduate degree ( A.A.S. or B.S ) in Dental hygiene and still be able to take the pre-requisites courses prior to dental school? Would this approach be a conflict of interest? And how would it effect my chances of being accepted into dental school?

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[dentalman]

Getting into dental hygiene school is competitive, and the training would be redundant. If you already know you want to be a dentist, don't get hygiene training. However, if being a dentist is not for you, hygiene is a great career as well. You are right, you could do both, but if you already know you want to be a dentist for sure, then a hygiene license is not needed.

 

[Sprgrover]

Getting into dental hygiene school is competitive, and the training would be redundant. If you already know you want to be a dentist, don't get hygiene training. However, if being a dentist is not for you, hygiene is a great career as well. You are right, you could do both, but if you already know you want to be a dentist for sure, then a hygiene license is not needed.

I agree. It's not impossible nor is it unheard of to become a hygienist and then make the switch to dentist - I have a friend who is currently in dental school who worked for several years as a hygienist before deciding she wanted to take things a bit further.

 

[junc]

I personally know from experience that it can really work to your advantage to get your BS in hygiene and still go to dental school. I transferred into the hygiene program at my university during my junior year and still graduated in 4 years. I took a year in between undergrad and dental school to work, apply, and finish pre-reqs (which you can easily get done during undergrad if you go to summer school). During hygiene school, I worked closely with the the dental students and faculty and caught a glimpse of what it would be like to be in dental school. I learned about dentistry in general, perio specifically, surviving clinic, and how to establish a great relationship with my patients. Believe me, getting my degree in something that was relevant to my future was way more exciting then sitting through some anthropology or communications course just to fulfill some requirement. Advantages of taking this route are being very comfortable in clinical situations where most of my classmates are the complete opposite, already being familiar with dental terminolgy and a lot of the course work, being utilized as extra faculty during certain exercises, and the money is great! I can work a few days during a break or on the weekend and make thousands of dollars that I don't have to borrow from uncle sam. So many of my classmates tell me that if they only knew they could have chosen this route and still graduate in 4 yrs, they would have. For myself, there are no disadvantages. I can only speak from own experience but I hope this helps!

 

[RDHwife]

I agree. Dental Hygiene is the best kept secret. It could only be a huge advantage. Would not ever be considered a conflict of interest. It is rather difficult to be accepted to a program, although males probably have an easier time getting in. Out of my hygiene class of 36, 1 was male. The money is awesome. I work on a commsion basis and have been out of school for 2 years. I make anywhere from $400-700 per day, seriously. You can work wherever you want as a temp or even only on weekends. It is definitely the greatest thing I ever did.

 

[hockeydentist]

I agree. Dental Hygiene is the best kept secret. It could only be a huge advantage. Would not ever be considered a conflict of interest. It is rather difficult to be accepted to a program, although males probably have an easier time getting in. Out of my hygiene class of 36, 1 was male. The money is awesome. I work on a commsion basis and have been out of school for 2 years. I make anywhere from $400-700 per day, seriously. You can work wherever you want as a temp or even only on weekends. It is definitely the greatest thing I ever did.

400-700 seems far fetched.. But then again I am not a hygienst so I'll have to take your word for it.

 

[gator1210]

I agree. Dental Hygiene is the best kept secret. It could only be a huge advantage. Would not ever be considered a conflict of interest. It is rather difficult to be accepted to a program, although males probably have an easier time getting in. Out of my hygiene class of 36, 1 was male. The money is awesome. I work on a commsion basis and have been out of school for 2 years. I make anywhere from $400-700 per day, seriously. You can work wherever you want as a temp or even only on weekends. It is definitely the greatest thing I ever did.

700 a day 5 days a week (220 days a year) =150k

hahahaha


where do you work? in dreams.

j/k


x

How long do you spend a std cleaning? 5 minutes?

Seriously,
congrats if you can make that kinda money with such a degree

Considering hygenist usually make 30 dollars an hour, most make b/t 40-70k.

and on top of that most only work 2-4 days a week.

 

[Yellow Snow]

Buddy of mine is a D4 and his wife is a hygenist. She brings home $400/ day and is pretty much putting him through school. This is in L.A. It still blows my mind. What does a cleaning cost? How can they be producing more than they are making?

 

[gator1210]

Buddy of mine is a D4 and his wife is a hygenist. She brings home $400/ day and is pretty much putting him through school. This is in L.A. It still blows my mind. What does a cleaning cost? How can they be producing more than they are making?

Some people said dentists could start off at 350 dollars a day. I dont believe it bc that means you study for 8 years instead of 2 and make less.

Hygienists are on the increasing demand. Just like those Anesthesia Assistant.

 

[RDHwife]

Dental Hygiene school is 4 years with pre-reqs, not 2. I live in AZ and hygienists out here that are paid hourly make about $37-40. However, I work on commision so I can make much more that that. I never said that I make $700 every day, but it has happened. I would say that on average I make about $500/day. You might be thinking, how in the world can the dentist afford to pay a hygienist that kind of money. Easy... I produce $1500 in collections and he pays me $500. He takes home $1000 for that day with almost no overhead.

I'm not trying to brag or be a brat, I'm just making a point that Hygiene is an awesome career and if more people knew about it they would go into it. ALso, it gives all of you dentists something to look forward to. You don't even have to be working and your hygienist is still making you money.

 

[RDHwife]

x

How long do you spend a std cleaning? 5 minutes?



-I stypically spend 40-50 mins on each cleaning. If they are a perio patient, it will be longer. I do quality work, I just work efficiently with an assistant.

 

[CorneliusFudge]

Some people said dentists could start off at 350 dollars a day. I dont believe it bc that means you study for 8 years instead of 2 and make less.

Hygienists are on the increasing demand. Just like those Anesthesia Assistant.

Length of school has nothing to do with it. Its supply and demand. Hygienists are hard to come by. Associate dentists are a dime a dozen.

Whether you think its fair or not, its very possible that the hygienist in the room next to you will be making more than you when you first start out. I know of some new dentists who actually temp hygiene a few days a week because they make more money than associating.

 

[gator1210]

Length of school has nothing to do with it. Its supply and demand. Hygienists are hard to come by. Associate dentists are a dime a dozen.

Whether you think its fair or not, its very possible that the hygienist in the room next to you will be making more than you when you first start out. I know of some new dentists who actually temp hygiene a few days a week because they make more money than associating.

I thought associates are in demand? Bc the parent doctor can easily make 100k off the associate.

 

[Yellow Snow]

I thought associates are in demand? Bc the parent doctor can easily make 100k off the associate.

There are associate openings all over the place so the "a dime a dozen" statement for new dentists is a little strong.

 

[Immuno-guy]

Do you really make that much money? Just the low end is:

$400/day x5 week x 50 weeks a year is $100,000 (pre tax).

That is amazing money. Currently I am an Immunology Ph.D. student strongly considering a career change into dentistry. A big and expensive move. My boss, a 30+ year veteran of immunology earns nearly $70,000.

 

[RDHwife]

Yes I do. You have to find the right office, one that is fast paced.

 

[chuckyy05]

Hello, i had a question about apply to dental hygiene school. I was just wondering if there was a website such as ADDSAS where you apply to hygiene school? And where can I go to find the requriements for the school. Thank you very much

I agree. Dental Hygiene is the best kept secret. It could only be a huge advantage. Would not ever be considered a conflict of interest. It is rather difficult to be accepted to a program, although males probably have an easier time getting in. Out of my hygiene class of 36, 1 was male. The money is awesome. I work on a commsion basis and have been out of school for 2 years. I make anywhere from $400-700 per day, seriously. You can work wherever you want as a temp or even only on weekends. It is definitely the greatest thing I ever did.

 

[CorneliusFudge]

Hello, i had a question about apply to dental hygiene school. I was just wondering if there was a website such as ADDSAS where you apply to hygiene school? And where can I go to find the requriements for the school. Thank you very much

I am not an expert but I wil share what I know. Hygiene school is very different from dentistry. There is not a single organization that handles all applications like AADSAS. Admission works on a program by program basis. Some require a year or so of college as a prerequisite and some will accept people right out of high school. It all depends on the program.

FWIW - I respect hygienists and what they do, but if I had to do hygiene all day long I would slit my wrists with a Gracey curette.

 

[RDHwife]

There is no organization that lists all of the hygiene schools. You should do a search for hygiene schools in your state. Then you can look at the school websites to see what the pre-reqs are. It is pretty competitive to get in, at least in AZ. Some of the schools have 5-6 year waiting lists. Just make sure you get A's in your pre-reqs and you will be fine.

 

[RDHwife]

FWIW - I respect hygienists and what they do, but if I had to do hygiene all day long I would slit my wrists with a Gracey curette.

I feel this way sometimes after a long day. It definitely gets monotonous, but soon I will not have to work 5 days a week, so it won't be too bad.

 

[Hmmwhat]

There are associate openings all over the place so the "a dime a dozen" statement for new dentists is a little strong.

Doctors can easily make 100 k off hygienists, if buisy enough even more, up to 200 k in collections in an extremely busy practice. I don't know a lot about the laws in different states but I would think it would be cheaper in overhead to employ a Hygienest then an associate. The Hygienest might be more likely to stay with your practice longer and also you wouldn't have to worry about them leaving and taking some of your patient base with them when they want to better their career. I would also hope to earn more then just a 100 k from any associate that I would hire.

 

[drhobie7]

I will no doubt incur the wrath of hygienists everywhere, but I don't care. $500 per day is grossly overpaid! And $700 is ludicrous! Yeah yeah, I know the story of hygiene marketing to your patients, selling your dentistry, and forming bonds with the patients. I'm sure that's all true but....they're still GROSSLY OVERPAID! Making $100K with an associates degree is absurd. I know I know, there are 2 years of prereqs and some have BAs. The only way I'm paying $500/day is if my hygienist has a PhD. I think we should open the market to foreign trained hygienists. I'd like to have a nice cadre of Thai hygienists.

 

[OzDDS]

I think we should open the market to foreign trained hygienists. I'd like to have a nice cadre of Thai hygienists.

Bring it on.. Find out what the requirements are to obtain a US license and advertise in Thai classifieds. Sponsor them for the US license application and exam, but make them sign a contract for minimun 1 year at a lower wage (still more $$ than they'd probably make in Thailand).

 

[RDHwife]

I will no doubt incur the wrath of hygienists everywhere, but I don't care. $500 per day is grossly overpaid! And $700 is ludicrous! Yeah yeah, I know the story of hygiene marketing to your patients, selling your dentistry, and forming bonds with the patients. I'm sure that's all true but....they're still GROSSLY OVERPAID! Making $100K with an associates degree is absurd. I know I know, there are 2 years of prereqs and some have BAs. The only way I'm paying $500/day is if my hygienist has a PhD. I think we should open the market to foreign trained hygienists. I'd like to have a nice cadre of Thai hygienists.

Well, take your pick. You can either pay your hygienist $500 per day to produce $1500 for the practice, or you can pay them $300/day ($35/hr-which is the lowest amount that hygienists make in the state of AZ ) to produce $700 for the practice. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you pay your staff well, they will work very hard for you.

Don't think that you're going to be able to pay the bare minimum and have your hygienist bust their butt for you day-in and day-out. They won't do it unless you are compensating them.

 

[drhobie7]

Don't think that you're going to be able to pay the bare minimum and have your hygienist bust their butt for you day-in and day-out. They won't do it unless you are compensating them.

And that's where the Thai hygienists come in!

 

[4dat]

And that's where the Thai hygienists come in!

You think it's that easy for foreigh hygienist to obtain US license. Most states require dental hygienist to be trained in U.S. school.. I only know one state that allows foreigh dentist to take hygiene board and obtain hygiene license.

In addition, some countries actually want to hire U.S. trained hygienist... I don't think the foreigh hygienist idea will work in any time soon... Some counties don't even have hygienist... I don't think thailand has dental hygiene school....

 

[Slash]

I'm not trying to brag or be a brat, I'm just making a point that Hygiene is an awesome career

Seriously, the last thing anybody in this dental forum thinks is that you're bragging because we're actually the future dentists you'll be working for. I'm glad you like your hygiene career....some of us want to be the chief and become dentists. To each their own. By the way, if you're HOT...you're hired!

 

[Slash]

FWIW - I respect hygienists and what they do, but if I had to do hygiene all day long I would slit my wrists with a Gracey curette.

Wrong. If you had to do hygiene all day you'd probably end up with carpal tunnel syndrome at some point in your career and wouldn't even be able to slit your wrists if you wanted. Hygienists, for as much as they try to glorify themselves, have a very monotonous job that is hell on their hands and can lead to high burn-out rates.

But I do think hyigienists are cute and all the way they defend their profession like they have D.D.S. behind their name or something.

 

[Slash]

It is pretty competitive to get in, at least in AZ. Some of the schools have 5-6 year waiting lists. Just make sure you get A's in your pre-reqs and you will be fine.

I guarantee you that the applicant pool for hygiene school doesn't even come close to being as competitive as the applicant pool for dental school. Guaranteed.

The reason the waiting lists are so long for hygiene school is because you have young girls coming straight out of high school applying to hygiene programs by the droves. You also have college freshmen girls applying in mass numbers. These girls aren't exactly your stellar star students because if they were they wouldn't even be looking at hygiene school and instead would already have their sights set on dental or medical school.

Many hygiene school programs are conducted at community colleges. Making A's on the community college level isn't that difficult. It's not like the prerequisites for hygiene school are that demanding, science courses are minimal compared to other higher programs.

 

[Trookie]

Wow, what a disgusting attitude to have towards a group of people you will be working with one day.

 

[Slash]

Wow, what a disgusting attitude to have towards a group of people you will be working with one day.

One word: specialize

 

[scalpel2008]

One word: specialize

One word: referrals

 

[aphistis]

One word: specialize

I, um, wouldn't start shopping for specialty practices yet if I were you.

 

[OzDDS]

One word: specialize

You're going to have assistants no matter what level you're at. You better learn to get along with them or you will loose buisness.

 

[drhobie7]

You think it's that easy for foreigh hygienist to obtain US license.

Who said anything about a license?

 

[SuperTrooper]

I personally know from experience that it can really work to your advantage to get your BS in hygiene and still go to dental school. I transferred into the hygiene program at my university during my junior year and still graduated in 4 years. I took a year in between undergrad and dental school to work, apply, and finish pre-reqs (which you can easily get done during undergrad if you go to summer school). During hygiene school, I worked closely with the the dental students and faculty and caught a glimpse of what it would be like to be in dental school. I learned about dentistry in general, perio specifically, surviving clinic, and how to establish a great relationship with my patients. Believe me, getting my degree in something that was relevant to my future was way more exciting then sitting through some anthropology or communications course just to fulfill some requirement. Advantages of taking this route are being very comfortable in clinical situations where most of my classmates are the complete opposite, already being familiar with dental terminolgy and a lot of the course work, being utilized as extra faculty during certain exercises, and the money is great! I can work a few days during a break or on the weekend and make thousands of dollars that I don't have to borrow from uncle sam. So many of my classmates tell me that if they only knew they could have chosen this route and still graduate in 4 yrs, they would have. For myself, there are no disadvantages. I can only speak from own experience but I hope this helps!

Hmm... the dental hygiene route to dentistry? I never thought of that. Sounds like a good idea. Sorta fits with the way I do most things.

A couple of years ago I planned a trip to Rome with my girlfriend. Well, it was a two year trip actually. The first year we flew into Rome, but once we got there, we headed strait out to the suburbs. In the suburbs we didn't actually see a lot of Rome, but we did get a real feel for the language and culture of what it must've been like in Rome. We even got some glimpses of the colisseum on the flight out. The next year we head strait to Rome, and let me tell you, the previous year spent in the suburbs was well worth it. My girlfriend and I felt so relaxed doing the tourist things, and the tour guides noted how "chill" and "comfortable" we looked when viewing the impressive monuments.

Going into hygiene with the intent of becoming a dentist is one of the stupidist things I've ever heard. Only a hygienist would come up with that idea. Believe me, the college history, english literature, sociology, and upper sciences classes I took were not a waste. I couldn't imagine a better way to blow your money than to do dental hygiene, with the plan of going into dentistry. Learning the same thing twice - great idea!! Yes, having a dental hygiene degree under your belt will probably make you a little more efficient when you're in dental school, but at graduation your skills will be no different from that of your classmates.

IN conclusion, dental hygienists are all idiots. For more information, please see this link: http://drslounge.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3708558#post3708558

 

[Slash]

You're going to have assistants no matter what level you're at. You better learn to get along with them or you will loose buisness.

Assistants are perfectly fine, as they know their limits and capabilities. It's the dental hygienist who thinks she's a dentist without ever having gone to dental school or the dental hygienist who thinks she's more important to the dental practice than the dentist that irks me.

 

[4dat]

Who said anything about a license?

?????? No license?? you can't practice dental hygiene legally without a license. If you are thinking about hiring someone to practice dental hygiene w/o a license, then why even think about foreigh hygienist? just use da

 

[4dat]

It's the dental hygienist who thinks she's a dentist without ever having gone to dental school or the dental hygienist who thinks she's more important to the dental practice than the dentist that irks me.

I don't know any dental hygienist that think of herself/himself as dentist. However, there are hygienist that are proud to be dental hygienist and don't want people to think of them as cleaning lady... Those may be the one that irritated you and trust me they don't think of themselves as dentist...

They are hygienist that went to school with dental dental students... So in a way, they did went to dental school...after all, they were in the same class taugh by professor, took the same testes.....

When you are working in a team, no one is more important than others... This goes both ways... If you don't like somone in your team, hire another person. There is no need to put majority of hygienist down...

 

[SuperTrooper]

I don't know any dental hygienist that think of herself/himself as dentist.

I know many like this.

... So in a way, they did went to dental school...

...thinking about it another way, they didn't go to dental school...

...When you are working in a team, no one is more important than others...

No, you're wrong. Dentists are more important than hygienists.

There is no need to put majority of hygienist down...

All dentists should put in their fair share of putting hygienists down.

 

[4dat]

IN conclusion, dental hygienists are all idiots. [/URL]

I understand some people have the need to put other people down in order to feel superior. Just like some M.D. don't think DDS/DMD is a real doctor. I'm shocked to see so many DDS/DMD here have negative feelings toward hygienist... If making negative comments towards hygienist will make you feel better and more superior, I guess there is no reason to stop you... After all, this type of behavior will only makes you look bad not others..

 

[aphistis]

I don't know any dental hygienist that think of herself/himself as dentist. However, there are hygienist that are proud to be dental hygienist and don't want people to think of them as cleaning lady... Those may be the one that irritated you and trust me they don't think of themselves as dentist...

They are hygienist that went to school with dental dental students... So in a way, they did went to dental school...after all, they were in the same class taugh by professor, took the same testes.....

When you are working in a team, no one is more important than others... This goes both ways... If you don't like somone in your team, hire another person. There is no need to put majority of hygienist down...

Anytime you have to preface an argument with "in a way...", you're already conceding defeat. I've never heard of a hygiene program integrated with its school's DDS curriculum, and I strongly doubt any exist. I challenge you to find one and cite it here.

On a separate note, keep the discussion professional, please. To clarify, interprofessional flames and profanities in one's public user data are not professional.

 

[mike3kgt]

took the same testes.....

Actually, while I am relatively new to dentistry, most hygienists I have met are women... I dunno if they would have to take any kind of testes.

-Mike

 

[4dat]

I've never heard of a hygiene program integrated with its school's DDS curriculum, and I strongly doubt any exist. I challenge you to find one and cite it here.

professional.

UCSF used to have dental hygiene program..

First year dental hygiene students take basic science classes such as anatorm, histology, radiology.... with first year dental student..

Second year dental hygiene students take periodotology, oral path, pharmacology, with second year, third year dental students and second year international dental students...

 

[aphistis]

UCSF used to have dental hygiene program..

First year dental hygiene students take basic science classes such as anatorm, histology, radiology.... with first year dental student..

Second year dental hygiene students take periodotology, oral path, pharmacology, with second year, third year dental students and second year international dental students...

With all due respect...

1) That's a personal anecdote, not a citation. Show me something published.
2) "Used to." Even if it *did* exist exactly as you described, it doesn't anymore.

 

[4dat]

I never said it still exist today.. All I said was "There are hygienist that went to school with dental dental students." You can ask any D3 and D4 dental students at UCSF and they will tell you that hygiene students do have classes with them.

ex. http://student.ucsf.edu/gencat/DS.HTML

116. Oral Structure and Development. (2 units) Wi. Prerequisites: None. Restrictions: Offered only to D1 and DH1 students Lecture 1 hours. Seminar 1 hours.

117. Etiologies and Risk Factors in Dental Diseases. (2.5 units) Sp. Restrictions: D1 and DH1 students. Lecture 2 hours. Seminar 2 hours

126 A. Fundamentals of Risk Assessment, Therapy, and Prevention. (2 units) Fa. Restrictions: D2, ID3, and DH2 students. Lecture 2 hours.

127. Oro-Facial Pain: Foundations for Diagnosis and Treatment. (2 units) Fa. Restrictions: D2 and DH2 students Lecture 1 hours. Seminar 1 hours

http://student.ucsf.edu/gencat/PH.HTML

116. Dental Pharmacology. (2 units) Sp. Lecture 2 hours.
M. Kruidering
Objective of the course is to acquaint dental and dental hygiene students with the fundamentals of pharmacology. Various classes of drugs are examined in regard to actions, absorption, fatre, excretion and toxity. Agents useful in dentistry are emphasized. ( department: PHARM CHEM )

http://student.ucsf.edu/gencat/ON.HTML

108.01. Introduction to Periodontology & Pulpal Diseases. (1.5 units) Sp. Prerequisites: Good standing in D1 or DH1 class.

118. General Histology. (4 units) § Fa. Prerequisites: Good standing in Dentistry 1 or Dental Hygiene 1 class. Lecture 4 hours

 

[Trookie]

Anytime you have to preface an argument with "in a way...", you're already conceding defeat. I've never heard of a hygiene program integrated with its school's DDS curriculum, and I strongly doubt any exist. I challenge you to find one and cite it here.

On a separate note, keep the discussion professional, please. To clarify, interprofessional flames and profanities in one's public user data are not professional.

At VCU, D1 and DH1 students take oral anatomy and the head and neck portion of gross anatomy together (although DH1s don't do any dissecting).

The rest of your post, I fully agree with. Some of the comments being made in this thread are quite ridiculous.

 

[drhobie7]

FYI: I was just playing around with all this hygiene nonsense. I have no intention of ever hiring a hygienist (Thai or American) as I am going into OMS. Unless of course, I feel like expanding my scope of practice into periodontics.

But I still feel they are overpaid.

 

[RDHwife]

This thread cracks me up. I don't understand why so many dental students are so anti hygienists. Being a hygienist, I realize that the dentist went to far more difficult schooling and the fact that dentists make hundreds of thousands more dollars than a hygienist would proves that point. My husband is applying to dental school, not me. I thought that I might be interested at one point but figured that I would really like to be a stay at home mom. When I weighed the fact that most dentists come out of school with $200,000 of debt as well as the 4 years of hygiene work that I wouldn't be able to do (app. $350,000). I really want a career that I can work 1 or 2 days per week. It would take quite a while to pay back the $550,000 of debt just to break even. THerefore, I chose hygiene and will leave all of the dental stuff up to my husband.

This thread started out with a simple question of whether or not hygiene would be a good degree to get your bachelors in prior to going to dental school. It was never supposed to be a dentists versus hygienist thread. Some of you guys may feel like hygienists are overpaid...guess what, I do too. I am shocked that I make the kind of money that I do. However, that doesn't change things and surely, I'm not going to complain. I chose this career knowing this. However, on the other end of the spectrum, hygienists can be a huge profit for the practice, as I have explained several times in this thread. Get a few great hygienists and you will be rollin in the dough.

So, if you still think that you hate hygienists and that you don't want that attitude in your practice, GREAT!!!! FIll your schedule with prophys all day and leave no time for the the actual production patients (ie crowns/bridges/implants/RCTs)

 

[aphistis]

At VCU, D1 and DH1 students take oral anatomy and the head and neck portion of gross anatomy together (although DH1s don't do any dissecting).

The rest of your post, I fully agree with. Some of the comments being made in this thread are quite ridiculous.

The only problem there is, dissection is where the majority of anatomy is learned. If you're not in there digging around to find the structures & their relationships to each other, you're just not learning nearly as much.

4dat- Thanks for the links. I stand corrected.

I have no grudge against hygienists, and I'm looking forward to employing them in my practice. My only beef is with people, of any profession, who feel compelled to self-aggrandize in order to cover up their own inferiority complexes.