Counseling V. Clinical Psych (CPA or APA?)

[CanadianCounselor]

I am sitting on a big decision here and would love some help

I am a dual citizen (US/Canada) working as a school counselor in Canada. I was recently admitted to a CPA accredited PsyD program, but may want to work in the US one day (perhaps NY, CA, FL, MA). I have my MA from a non-CACREP accredited MA program in Psychology (in Canada). I have called Licensure boards in NYC, Florida, and California, and all have different requirements (for Counselors, as well as Psychologists) so it would seem that it would take me some time to meet the requirements in any of those states.

My hopes for the future are to have my own practice, continue working with teenagers, perhaps work at a counseling centre, hospital, addictions facility, or any combination of these.

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[erg923]

I always just advise people if they want to work in the US as a psychologist, then go to school here.

 

[CanadianCounselor]

I always just advise people if they want to work in the US as a psychologist, then go to school here.

Thanks for your reply! What is the reason for that? Just trying to get more info. Thanks

 

[erg923]

Thanks for your reply! What is the reason for that? Just trying to get more info. Thanks

Just makes things more simple. if willing to move here in 5 years, might as well do it now and save the hassle and anxiety in regards to licensing

 

[MCParent]

I am sitting on a big decision here and would love some help

I am a dual citizen (US/Canada) working as a school counselor in Canada. I was recently admitted to a CPA accredited PsyD program, but may want to work in the US one day (perhaps NY, CA, FL, MA). I have my MA from a non-CACREP accredited MA program in Psychology (in Canada). I have called Licensure boards in NYC, Florida, and California, and all have different requirements (for Counselors, as well as Psychologists) so it would seem that it would take me some time to meet the requirements in any of those states.

My hopes for the future are to have my own practice, continue working with teenagers, perhaps work at a counseling centre, hospital, addictions facility, or any combination of these.

Stating two threads for the same topic won't get you replies any faster.
I agree w/Erg (as a Canadian who did their PhD in the US and now lives down here)

 

[CanadianCounselor]

Stating two threads for the same topic won't get you replies any faster.
I agree w/Erg (as a Canadian who did their PhD in the US and now lives down here)

I tried to edit the post and it seemed to post twice I will delete, first time posting.
Thanks!

 

[temppsych123]

I am a US citizen who went to a Canadian CPA-accredited program just as the dual accreditation between CPA/APA was ending, and am now back in the US. Coming from Canada did lead to some extra annoyances along the way in terms of applying for internship; many US training directors were totally unfamiliar with the First Street Accords and the mutual recognition agreement between CPA and APA, so I had to do some explaining about why I was eligible for programs that list "APA-accredited programs only" on their internship materials. It wasn't insurmountable, but it was annoying. Also, at the time, the VA in the US hadn't switched over to formally approving CPA grads, so I couldn't apply to VA sites, which wasn't a huge loss for me but could be for others (that has since been fixed, though).

So, it's doable to move back and forth at the post-PsyD point, but you just might have a little bit more explaining to do in terms of what CPA accreditation means. The issues you're running into in terms of figuring out what licensure requirements are across state lines, etc. are going to apply no matter where you do your program, unless you know exactly what state you want to ultimately be in and set your sites on training programs/internships/postdocs only in that state.

 

[CanadianCounselor]

I am a US citizen who went to a Canadian CPA-accredited program just as the dual accreditation between CPA/APA was ending, and am now back in the US. Coming from Canada did lead to some extra annoyances along the way in terms of applying for internship; many US training directors were totally unfamiliar with the First Street Accords and the mutual recognition agreement between CPA and APA, so I had to do some explaining about why I was eligible for programs that list "APA-accredited programs only" on their internship materials. It wasn't insurmountable, but it was annoying. Also, at the time, the VA in the US hadn't switched over to formally approving CPA grads, so I couldn't apply to VA sites, which wasn't a huge loss for me but could be for others (that has since been fixed, though).

So, it's doable to move back and forth at the post-PsyD point, but you just might have a little bit more explaining to do in terms of what CPA accreditation means. The issues you're running into in terms of figuring out what licensure requirements are across state lines, etc. are going to apply no matter where you do your program, unless you know exactly what state you want to ultimately be in and set your sites on training programs/internships/postdocs only in that state.

Thank you so much! The main issue that is a huge deciding factor is cost as my program is very very cheap and all programs in the US seem to be much much more. It would seem, though, and I'm not sure if you know the answer to this, that while I'd assumed it would be easier to work as a counsellor in the US, it would in fact also involve exams, obtaining extra hours, the fact that my school was not CACREP-accredited,etc.

 

[CanadianCounselor]

I am a US citizen who went to a Canadian CPA-accredited program just as the dual accreditation between CPA/APA was ending, and am now back in the US. Coming from Canada did lead to some extra annoyances along the way in terms of applying for internship; many US training directors were totally unfamiliar with the First Street Accords and the mutual recognition agreement between CPA and APA, so I had to do some explaining about why I was eligible for programs that list "APA-accredited programs only" on their internship materials. It wasn't insurmountable, but it was annoying. Also, at the time, the VA in the US hadn't switched over to formally approving CPA grads, so I couldn't apply to VA sites, which wasn't a huge loss for me but could be for others (that has since been fixed, though).

So, it's doable to move back and forth at the post-PsyD point, but you just might have a little bit more explaining to do in terms of what CPA accreditation means. The issues you're running into in terms of figuring out what licensure requirements are across state lines, etc. are going to apply no matter where you do your program, unless you know exactly what state you want to ultimately be in and set your sites on training programs/internships/postdocs only in that state.

Do you know if being at a CPA rather than APA accredited internship site is an issue?

 

[PsyDr]

Thanks for your reply! What is the reason for that? Just trying to get more info. Thanks

In psychology, the USA has significantly more stringent educational standards than any country I've encountered. If one wants to work here, there is a very high probability that a foreign degree will be acceptable for practice. There are programs which will retrain foreign graduates but they run about the same amount of time as a USA doctorate.

 

[CanadianCounselor]

In psychology, the USA has significantly more stringent educational standards than any country I've encountered. If one wants to work here, there is a very high probability that a foreign degree will be acceptable for practice. There are programs which will retrain foreign graduates but they run about the same amount of time as a USA doctorate.

Right however it seems that Canada is not considered a foreign country by most licensure boards?

 

[MCParent]

Right however it seems that Canada is not considered a foreign country by most licensure boards?

Canada is a foreign country, and is considered so by state boards.
@PSYDR , from what I've known about established Canadian programs, they set up their training to meet US license board reqs. You're definitely right when it comes to most countries (some countries do not have psych license boards at all, a bachelors is sufficient to practice psych in some, they do nonsense interventions in some, etc.) but I think the CPA had a specific and clear goal to match and exceed APA/state reqs when the split happened. I don't know anything about the psyd programs in Canada so I couldn't say about that tho.

 

[PsyDr]

Canada is a foreign country, and is considered so by state boards.
@PSYDR , from what I've known about established Canadian programs, they set up their training to meet US license board reqs. You're definitely right when it comes to most countries (some countries do not have psych license boards at all, a bachelors is sufficient to practice psych in some, they do nonsense interventions in some, etc.) but I think the CPA had a specific and clear goal to match and exceed APA/state reqs when the split happened. I don't know anything about the psyd programs in Canada so I couldn't say about that tho.

Huh. I learn something new everyday. Thanks!

 

[MCParent]

Huh. I learn something new everyday. Thanks!

I know that was the intention a few years ago anyway. I stopped paying as much attention when it became clearer I was staying in the US. Someone else who has gone through the process recently might be able to say if those plans came to fruition.

 

[temppsych123]

APA recognizes CPA accreditation as equivalent: CPA and APA Mutual Recognition: First Street Accord

That means that, when/if you apply for jobs in the US that require you to have gone to an APA-accredited program, you may have to email the administrative staff in charge of the search or the director to clarify how they view CPA programs, but, generally speaking, you should be ok. At least, that was my experience with internship applications in the US (some sites said I had to be a US citizen but the CPA thing was ok, the only places CPA was NOT acceptable were VAs, but that's changed now: Eligibility - Psychology Training).

PsyD programs are relatively newer in Canada, so perhaps that's why it's cheaper? That being said, when I was applying for internships I was looking for research-focused sites, so I don't know how places like community mental health centers or college counseling centers might view coming from across the border. But I don't think it's insurmountable, at least at the internship level. With licensure, it's going to vary a TON by state, but that's also true if you do your training in the US - some states require postdoc hours, some don't. The bigger issue with the states you listed is that they're pretty popular in terms of places to live, so you'll face greater competition for actual jobs (not for licensure) if you want to live in Manhattan than if you wanted to live in, like, Omaha. Licensure-wise, I've seen some states that explicitly allow CPA-accredited grads to apply, and other states that say you have to be "substantially equivalent" or whatever that state's wording is to an accredited program, which hopefully wouldn't be hard to demonstrate if the PsyD program you're attending is well-run and accredited. It would be a good idea to start documenting your training, though (e.g., keep copies of all syllabi for courses) so you can "prove," if necessary, your school's equivalence.

One less logistical but more pragmatic concern is that the cultural values in Canada, the history, the demographic makeup, etc. are all very different than in the US. So, for example, you listed CA and FL as possibilities; both states have really large Hispanic populations, which is not the case in most big or small Canadian cities. So if you wanted to work in community mental health in California, not having access/experience with people of Hispanic ethnicity or awareness of the culture-specific issues they might face could impact your job search. Again, not insurmountable, but worth thinking about.

 

[CanadianCounselor]

APA recognizes CPA accreditation as equivalent: CPA and APA Mutual Recognition: First Street Accord

That means that, when/if you apply for jobs in the US that require you to have gone to an APA-accredited program, you may have to email the administrative staff in charge of the search or the director to clarify how they view CPA programs, but, generally speaking, you should be ok. At least, that was my experience with internship applications in the US (some sites said I had to be a US citizen but the CPA thing was ok, the only places CPA was NOT acceptable were VAs, but that's changed now: Eligibility - Psychology Training).

PsyD programs are relatively newer in Canada, so perhaps that's why it's cheaper? That being said, when I was applying for internships I was looking for research-focused sites, so I don't know how places like community mental health centers or college counseling centers might view coming from across the border. But I don't think it's insurmountable, at least at the internship level. With licensure, it's going to vary a TON by state, but that's also true if you do your training in the US - some states require postdoc hours, some don't. The bigger issue with the states you listed is that they're pretty popular in terms of places to live, so you'll face greater competition for actual jobs (not for licensure) if you want to live in Manhattan than if you wanted to live in, like, Omaha. Licensure-wise, I've seen some states that explicitly allow CPA-accredited grads to apply, and other states that say you have to be "substantially equivalent" or whatever that state's wording is to an accredited program, which hopefully wouldn't be hard to demonstrate if the PsyD program you're attending is well-run and accredited. It would be a good idea to start documenting your training, though (e.g., keep copies of all syllabi for courses) so you can "prove," if necessary, your school's equivalence.

One less logistical but more pragmatic concern is that the cultural values in Canada, the history, the demographic makeup, etc. are all very different than in the US. So, for example, you listed CA and FL as possibilities; both states have really large Hispanic populations, which is not the case in most big or small Canadian cities. So if you wanted to work in community mental health in California, not having access/experience with people of Hispanic ethnicity or awareness of the culture-specific issues they might face could impact your job search. Again, not insurmountable, but worth thinking about.

 

[CanadianCounselor]

Thank you so so much for your help and insight!!

 

[foreigndoctor]

Hi tempsych,

I am also a canadian citizen who studied in the US. I completed a Psy.D and now I am in the process of wanting to be licensed in Canada. Do you have any tips as to how I may be able to allocate post-docs in canada or may be able to refer me to any mentors who would have been through that process to offer guidance. I honestly feel lost and stressed.