Commissioned Officer Training (Air Force)

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mr_doctor

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I've been selected for a 4-year HPSP with the air force and was originally told when I applied last fall I would do COT this summer. My scroll still isn't back so my recruiter says I'm scheduled for June of next year now, but it looks like all the days next summer overlap with my med school's semesters (end of first year/start of second year) by at least 1-2 weeks. My recruiter says I just tell the med school I need to miss the last few weeks of the semester and they should understand, however this seems off to me that my school would be ok with someone leaving before the semester is finished.

Does anyone else have experience with COT conflicting with their med school academic calendar and how this can be resolved?

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Your school will absolutely not be okay with you missing the last few weeks of class. You will have finals and check outs during that time and you need to be there. More likely is that you will delay COT.
 
When you're "just telling" them be sure you also tell them that being in the AF entitles you to faculty parking. I mean why not.
 
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Your school will absolutely not be okay with you missing the last few weeks of class. You will have finals and check outs during that time and you need to be there. More likely is that you will delay COT.

Exactly what I thought..so my next question is when would COT be delayed to since I don't think there is any 5 week block of time between 2nd/3rd or 3rd/4th years (we go right into clinical following STEP 1). COT would have to be after finishing med school?

I think I read somewhere you need COT before doing any military clinical rotations in 3rd/4th years? If that is true that would mean no rotations to audition for military residency application which means I'm screwed in the military match?
 
Exactly what I thought..so my next question is when would COT be delayed to since I don't think there is any 5 week block of time between 2nd/3rd or 3rd/4th years (we go right into clinical following STEP 1). COT would have to be after finishing med school?

I think I read somewhere you need COT before doing any military clinical rotations in 3rd/4th years? If that is true that would mean no rotations to audition for military residency application which means I'm screwed in the military match?
You could do it between 3rd and 4th years, although you would burn up all your vacation time to do it, which would suck. You don't need COT for clinical rotations. Plenty of people do it after residency before reporting to their first duty station.
 
You could do it between 3rd and 4th years, although you would burn up all your vacation time to do it, which would suck. You don't need COT for clinical rotations. Plenty of people do it after residency before reporting to their first duty station.

Is this post incorrect stating you need COT before doing any ADT's?
Af hpsp cot
 
I wouldn't be sure. That's the sort of arbitrary rule that can happen.
So you're saying its a crap shoot, they might require COT for ADTs or they might not?

Here's another post from 2014 saying that it is required... HPSP crisis
However none of the other posts in that thread confirm/deny/point to a specific policy regarding ADTs requiring COT.
 
Most likely you will go to COT after your 4th year and before residency starts. Especially if you are selected for a military residency, which from my understanding is very likely to happen.
 
So you're saying its a crap shoot, they might require COT for ADTs or they might not?

Here's another post from 2014 saying that it is required... HPSP crisis
However none of the other posts in that thread confirm/deny/point to a specific policy regarding ADTs requiring COT.
Ask for a regulation that states students that have not attended COT cannot do a military rotation. You've already gotten bad information from a recruiter so now may be the time to escalate your concerns. Have you signed a contract yet?
 
Ask for a regulation that states students that have not attended COT cannot do a military rotation. You've already gotten bad information from a recruiter so now may be the time to escalate your concerns. Have you signed a contract yet?
That's what I'm trying to do to clarify. Haven't signed yet, trying to figure this out before I commission and sign a contract because this will affect my decision. I've decided I want to join and understand the risks/needs of the service come first, but don't want to shoot my career in the foot by having no chance at getting a preferred residency before I even start.
 
That's what I'm trying to do to clarify. Haven't signed yet, trying to figure this out before I commission and sign a contract because this will affect my decision. I've decided I want to join and understand the risks/needs of the service come first, but don't want to shoot my career in the foot by having no chance at getting a preferred residency before I even start.
^^^ This. You say you understand the risks of milmed, but then say you don't want those risks to affect your career. I hope you are beginning to understand what being in the military means. Some ill-informed recruiter gives you bad information, you sign up not knowing that the info is bad, and some obscure regulation hinders your medical career. It means nothing, NOTHING to the military to park you in an admin job for 4 years. If obtaining your preferred residency is the main focus here, then don't join the military. If you want to serve, then remember that servants don't have say over how or where they will serve.
 
That's what I'm trying to do to clarify. Haven't signed yet, trying to figure this out before I commission and sign a contract because this will affect my decision. I've decided I want to join and understand the risks/needs of the service come first, but don't want to shoot my career in the foot by having no chance at getting a preferred residency before I even start.
And if you are looking for a regulation then maybe @Helpful Troll can chime in.
 
A regulation is probably too high of a standard for this type of thing. I could easily see this as being a policy or directive of some O-6 in the HPSP office, to wit, they won't approve ADT orders for those without COT (or the non-AF equivalent). As such, it could change whenever the leadership cycles. Or it could not. Welcome to the hamster wheel.
 
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^^^ This. You say you understand the risks of milmed, but then say you don't want those risks to affect your career. I hope you are beginning to understand what being in the military means. Some ill-informed recruiter gives you bad information, you sign up not knowing that the info is bad, and some obscure regulation hinders your medical career. It means nothing, NOTHING to the military to park you in an admin job for 4 years. If obtaining your preferred residency is the main focus here, then don't join the military. If you want to serve, then remember that servants don't have say over how or where they will serve.

The way I see it is two different levels of risk.

I'm 100% fine joining, doing my ADTs, building a competitive application for the military match and having a chance at matching into a military residency, and if I don't match then going GMO and likely getting out on time to match civilian post commitment. That's a risk I understand and is within my personal levels of risk tolerance, since there is still a pretty good chance of matching to a preferred field on a reasonable timeline.

The other case I'm faced with here is no COT meaning no ADTs, meaning no chance to audition, destroying any chance of a competitive application and virtually no chance to match into a preferred field. That essentially guarantees me a GMO/admin position, before I even start school and because I'm missing COT & ADTs the end of my service commitment end date doesn't line up with the civilian match, setting me back even further. Sure, there's a chance that a joint service GME board still selects me, but the chances are way lower in the case that I have zero ADTs, and personally that risk is beyond my comfort level.
 
The way I see it is two different levels of risk.

I'm 100% fine joining, doing my ADTs, building a competitive application for the military match and having a chance at matching into a military residency, and if I don't match then going GMO and likely getting out on time to match civilian post commitment. That's a risk I understand and is within my personal levels of risk tolerance, since there is still a pretty good chance of matching to a preferred field on a reasonable timeline.

The other case I'm faced with here is no COT meaning no ADTs, meaning no chance to audition, destroying any chance of a competitive application and virtually no chance to match into a preferred field. That essentially guarantees me a GMO/admin position, before I even start school and because I'm missing COT & ADTs the end of my service commitment end date doesn't line up with the civilian match, setting me back even further. Sure, there's a chance that a joint service GME board still selects me, but the chances are way lower in the case that I have zero ADTs, and personally that risk is beyond my comfort level.
What I'm trying to tell you is that both of those risks are governed by the same arbitrary set of rules that are left to the whims of whoever is calling the shots. The emphasis is not on making you the best physician possible. It's on some O6 getting promoted by making a spreadsheet line up and a box turn green. Your scenario is a good example of this: someone could potentially hinder your medical development because of some arbitrary rule that has no bearing on your ability deliver medical care. Same goes for your time out of residency.

If all that seems fine then by all means join. These are the things to consider if you are going to sign your career away.
 
So just an update to everyone. I explained to my recruiter my concerns and essentially he came back telling me I was given bad info and that things have changed. However I'll be able to do ADTs regardless. Fortunately I found a copy of the HPSP contract he gave me to review at one of our meetings last fall...

Air Force Attachment 1 FY 2017 to the AFHPSP contract section 13 says the following about COT for physicians. "required to attend COT prior to the start of scholarship benefits" AND "completion of COT is required to be eligible for further AD clerkship electives". I think signing off on those statements in the contract is going to trump anything my recruiter tells me, so I guess I found my answer about whether to commission or not.

EDIT: Just wanted to emphasize this is in the air force specific portion of the contract. I don't know what the Army/Navy contracts say regarding their officer training programs.
 
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So just an update to everyone. I explained to my recruiter my concerns and essentially he came back telling me I was given bad info and that things have changed. However I'll be able to do ADTs regardless. Fortunately I found a copy of the HPSP contract he gave me to review at one of our meetings last fall...

Air Force Attachment 1 FY 2017 to the AFHPSP contract section 13 says the following about COT for physicians. "required to attend COT prior to the start of scholarship benefits" AND "completion of COT is required to be eligible for further AD clerkship electives". I think signing off on those statements in the contract is going to trump anything my recruiter tells me, so I guess I found my answer about whether to commission or not.

EDIT: Just wanted to emphasize this is in the air force specific portion of the contract. I don't know what the Army/Navy contracts say regarding their officer training programs.
There you have it, black and white. Nice work tracking that down. Just so you know, they Army doesn't have that requirement (that I'm aware of).
 
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