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HelpINneed911

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I have failed the PE three times. The 4th attempt was taken one week ago.

1st take... Failed humanistic and biomedical
2nd take... passed humanistic, failed biomedical
3rd take.... passed biomedical, failed humanistic

If I didn't pass the exam this time I will be dismissed from medical school. Aside from the COMLEX STEP 2 PE, all requirements for graduation were completed in July 2016. The PE is the single factor that decides if I will be a physician or not.

Depigmentation of my hair is not fully complete but this situation will surely finalize the process. This test has initiated enough stress to drag me down the path of premature baldness and most likely will induce permanent stress-related gastrointestinal damage. I am severely depressed, all since of self worth has been completely annihilated. I feel horrible!

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If this is true, then how sad is it that this test is the one that held a student back?
 
I feel your pain. You don't know the results yet so you shouldn't stress out. I've been dismissed due to comlex and it hurts. But life isn't over.
Just chill and pray. That's all you could do at this point.
 
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I am in a similar boat. Just found out I did not pass my PE the second time.

1st take: Failed humanistic, passed biomedical
2nd take: Passed humanistic, failed biomedical

Scheduled test on 5/9/17, so score should be out July 3-10th. I am unsure what this means for my graduation.
 
you guys make me so worried. My accent is so heavy; I did not know any English till I was 16 years old; and my professors repeated failed me in practical exams because they claimed that they could not understand what I was talking about. I am a 2nd year, not even want to think how the PE will be like.
 
is the COMLEX similar to the MCAT? Just wondering as an incoming DO student. And if you guys don't mind sharing what you think one can do to avoid failing besides studying your butt off. Deeply sorry for your misfortune :/
 
is the COMLEX similar to the MCAT? Just wondering as an incoming DO student. And if you guys don't mind sharing what you think one can do to avoid failing besides studying your butt off. Deeply sorry for your misfortune :/
No; COMLEX is not similar to the MCAT. It is a licensing exam that tests medical knowledge.
To pass, "studying your butt off" is the most important thing. Using the right resources is also necessary - U World, FA, Pathoma, Savarese, and maybe Sketchy. I'm sure that there have been many threads about this and you'll also find out how to study from your classmates and people ahead of you in medical school.
Other factors that can contribute to course failures or board failures are mental illness, poor health, and death in the family. Unfortunately there is not much you can do to avoid these things other than trying to get problems treated early and aggressively.
 
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No; COMLEX is not similar to the MCAT. It is a licensing exam that tests medical knowledge.
To pass, "studying your butt off" is the most important thing. Using the right resources is also necessary - U World, FA, Pathoma, Savarese, and maybe Sketchy. I'm sure that there have been many threads about this and you'll also find out how to study from your classmates and people ahead of you in medical school.
Other factors that can contribute to course failures or board failures are mental illness, poor health, and death in the family. Unfortunately there is not much you can do to avoid these things other than trying to get problems treated early and aggressively.

Thank you for your response and best of luck to you. :)
 
Thank you for your response and best of luck to you. :)

You should definitely be doing your own research on things. Being an accepted student and not knowing what the COMLEX is, is pretty interesting. You're already behind the curve. DO schools tell you absolute bare minimum about everything.

There's (at least) four licensing exams you HAVE to take to become a DO. COMLEX level 1 (end of second year). COMLEX level 2 PE and level 2 CE during third/fourth year. Then the COMLEX level 3 taken after graduation during intern year. This thread is actually about the COMLEX level 2 PE, which is the "Performance Evaluation", essentially you do a history/physical exam/etc on 12 standardized patients + documentation. They love failing people to keep themselves relevant.

This isn't even including if you take some of the MD exams (Step 1 and Step 2 CK), which judging by your "surgeon" username, might want to look into as well.
 
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You should definitely be doing your own research on things. Being an accepted student and not knowing what the COMLEX is, is pretty interesting. You're already behind the curve. DO schools tell you absolute bare minimum about everything.

There's (at least) four licensing exams you HAVE to take to become a DO. COMLEX level 1 (end of second year). COMLEX level 2 PE and level 2 CE during third/fourth year. Then the COMLEX level 3 taken after graduation during intern year. This thread is actually about the COMLEX level 2 PE, which is the "Performance Evaluation", essentially you do a history/physical exam/etc on 12 standardized patients + documentation. They love failing people to keep themselves relevant.

This isn't even including if you take some of the MD exams (Step 1 and Step 2 CK), which judging by your "surgeon" username, might want to look into as well.

Ok thank you for the information :). I will certainly do more research on the matter.
 
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You should definitely be doing your own research on things. Being an accepted student and not knowing what the COMLEX is, is pretty interesting. You're already behind the curve.

Nah, they're gonna be fine. I passed my PE without even knowing what "PE" stands for until reading your post. I thought it meant "physical exam". I still have no idea what CE stands for.
 
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Do states have a limit on how many times you can take a board exam in order to get licensed?

Some do. It varies state to state though and some don't have any limit.

Federation of State Medical Boards

There may be issues in Alaska, Arkansas, Illinois, maybe Minnesota, Missouri, North Carolina, North Dakota, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Texas, and Utah as they may require passing in 3 attempts. The only way to verify any of this is to contact the individual state boards directly.
 
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I have failed the PE three times. The 4th attempt was taken one week ago.

1st take... Failed humanistic and biomedical
2nd take... passed humanistic, failed biomedical
3rd take.... passed biomedical, failed humanistic

If I didn't pass the exam this time I will be dismissed from medical school. Aside from the COMLEX STEP 2 PE, all requirements for graduation were completed in July 2016. The PE is the single factor that decides if I will be a physician or not.

Depigmentation of my hair is not fully complete but this situation will surely finalize the process. This test has initiated enough stress to drag me down the path of premature baldness and most likely will induce permanent stress-related gastrointestinal damage. I am severely depressed, all since of self worth has been completely annihilated. I feel horrible!.
Passing Any COMLEX exam depends on how the individual performed in school. COMLEX scores are scored Individually depending on class rank. Bottom students need to score higher on these exams to pass as I was told by the Director of the NBOME. In order to pass, you need to score as high as possible to get a simple pass as compared to others.
 
Passing Any COMLEX exam depends on how the individual performed in school. COMLEX scores are scored Individually depending on class rank. Bottom students need to score higher on these exams to pass as I was told by the Director of the NBOME. In order to pass, you need to score as high as possible to get a simple pass as compared to others..

this is a very interesting theory that I want to believe. do you have any evidence supporting this?
 
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Passing Any COMLEX exam depends on how the individual performed in school. COMLEX scores are scored Individually depending on class rank. Bottom students need to score higher on these exams to pass as I was told by the Director of the NBOME. In order to pass, you need to score as high as possible to get a simple pass as compared to others..

Actually if youre in the top 10% if the class youre taught a secret handshake to give the sp's which grants you an automatic pass. Then you just kick back and talk about sports for 14 minutes!
 
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Ironically enough I saw someone at my school who finally passed Comlex PE on the 4th try as well. My heart goes out to these people, of all the tests to get hung up on, so frustrating. But I am glad that they and you passed. I don't think the PE should be a barrier to anyone who made it past everything else.
 
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this is a very interesting theory that I want to believe. do you have any evidence supporting this?.
People on the five year programs at DO schools do not pass COMLEX on first attempt, and take it two or three times every school. I was told that people at the bottom of the class and have had severe academic difficulty need to get more to pass so that the AOA can be reassurred they can practice medicine in a safe and effective manner.
 
People on the five year programs at DO schools do not pass COMLEX on first attempt, and take it two or three times every school. I was told that people at the bottom of the class and have had severe academic difficulty need to get more to pass so that the AOA can be reassurred they can practice medicine in a safe and effective manner..


I find this extremely hard to believe. So you think the NBOME is looking at the individual grades of every single student taking COMLEX? No. People in the bottom part of the class probably need to study more to pass because they've clearly been struggling all along. Not because they're being scored harder. Provide some sort of source to back this up other than "I've been told..."


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I find this extremely hard to believe. So you think the NBOME is looking at the individual grades of every single student taking COMLEX? No. People in the bottom part of the class probably need to study more to pass because they've clearly been struggling all along. Not because they're being scored harder. Provide some sort of source to back this up other than "I've been told..."


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile.
The president of the AOA, the President of the NBOME, and the Dean of the Osteopathic School that I attend at verified this information. I believe it to be true.
 
Passing Any COMLEX exam depends on how the individual performed in school. COMLEX scores are scored Individually depending on class rank. Bottom students need to score higher on these exams to pass as I was told by the Director of the NBOME. In order to pass, you need to score as high as possible to get a simple pass as compared to others..
You're an idiot. This is 100% not true.
 
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I find this extremely hard to believe. So you think the NBOME is looking at the individual grades of every single student taking COMLEX? No. People in the bottom part of the class probably need to study more to pass because they've clearly been struggling all along. Not because they're being scored harder. Provide some sort of source to back this up other than "I've been told..."

At my school, when we ask people who failed COMLEX "what happened?", the people in the bottom of the class (who we predicted would fail, or rather, we predicted were at high risk for failing), generally tell us that they didn't prepare well enough. So with them, as with med school in general, it's a work ethic issue.

The good student who surprise us by failing typically have some life event hit them right before Boards.
 
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At my school, when we ask people who failed COMLEX "what happened?", the people in the bottom of the class (who we predicted would fail, or rather, we predicted were at high risk for failing), generally tell us that they didn't prepare well enough. So with them, as with med school in general, it's a work ethic issue.

The good student who surprise us by failing typically have some life event hit them right before Boards.


That's exactly what I was trying to get at. If you're at the bottom of your class you're more likely to fail because you've been struggling to begin with. Coolrad99 is saying that the NBOME uses more difficult grading standards if you are at the bottom of your class vs. the top of your class. I find it very hard to believe that they use different standards of grading based on your class rank.


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That's exactly what I was trying to get at. If you're at the bottom of your class you're more likely to fail because you've been struggling to begin with. Coolrad99 is saying that the NBOME uses more difficult grading standards if you are at the bottom of your class vs. the top of your class. I find it very hard to believe that they use different standards of grading based on your class rank.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile.

Coolrad is 100% wrong. I surmise that s/he misinterpreted what was said. How would NBOME even know one's class standing???? We certainly don't report that to them.
 
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I have no idea if this is true or not nor do I care. I PASSED!!! I'm a doctor!
 
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The president of the AOA, the President of the NBOME, and the Dean of the Osteopathic School that I attend at verified this information. I believe it to be true..

Time to start gunning! Easy PE here I come!
 
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I'm curious, how does a fail in step 2 PE affect your residency chances.
i.e. would a fail in this particular exam force you into FM or something less competitive?
 
Lol class ranking which is something isn't standardized, affecting a test that is standardized. Why even have a standardized test if that was the case? Lollll
 
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I'm curious, how does a fail in step 2 PE affect your residency chances.
i.e. would a fail in this particular exam force you into FM or something less competitive?

Failing the PE significantly hurts your chances of matching. Its a big redflag for some PDs, so the most effect will be on interview invites if the fail shows up before you submit your app.

Of the people I know who failed the PE (admittedly only a few) none matched, but all were able to SOAP/scramble, and not just into FM spots. 2 had solid apps otherwise. You won't necessarily be limited to FM with a fail on the PE (FM might be harder than other fields with less clinical interaction - but honestly I'm not sure), but you will absolutely be limited geographically and probably lose a shot at the most competitive fields.

Don't worry too much, just be sure to prepare, practice with someone else in a timed way, go through their orientation videos, use the online SOAP note tool, and really practice those social/humanistic things. If you get a smoker, know what you're going to tell them. If someone is scared, know how you're going to comfort them, etc.
 
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I was more terrified of the pe then any written. That test is scary, anyone who fails it I feel incredibly sorry for. I know I probably looked completely stupid on my pe. Waiting for a test result that only has two options: pass or fail, when you really have no idea how you did because it's based on how people perceive being personable. One case in particular I must have asked every ros question in the world and all the guy would say is "no"
 
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There are a number of papers that demonstrate that the best predictor of Boards performance is pre-clinical GPA, whether for MD or DO.

MCAT is a weak predictor.

I would be curious to see how those students with high GPAs fare, when we account for time spent preparing. I would guess amongst the high GPA group, those who started prepping sooner (fall/spring of second year) outperform those who waited.

I think the underlying theme is, those with higher GPA aren't necessarily smarter, they are just harder working.
 
I would be curious to see how those students with high GPAs fare, when we account for time spent preparing. I would guess among the high GPA group, those who started prepping sooner (fall/spring of second year) outperform those who waited.

I think the underlying theme is, those with higher GPA aren't necessarily smarter, they are just harder working. .
We have found that work ethic is an extremely important, yet very under-rated component of med student success. We have yet to look at timing of start of Boards prep compared to success, because what actually constitutes "Boards prep"? I think that med school IS Boards prep, in a manner of speaking. We have some Classes that start fussing about Boards about a week after orientation.
 
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No; COMLEX is not similar to the MCAT. It is a licensing exam that tests medical knowledge.
To pass, "studying your butt off" is the most important thing. Using the right resources is also necessary - U World, FA, Pathoma, Savarese, and maybe Sketchy. I'm sure that there have been many threads about this and you'll also find out how to study from your classmates and people ahead of you in medical school.
Other factors that can contribute to course failures or board failures are mental illness, poor health, and death in the family. Unfortunately there is not much you can do to avoid these things other than trying to get problems treated early and aggressively.

Good post. Mental illness is a very underappreciated statement but GUH, who I think is either an aspiring psychiatrist or already matched can elucidate further :)

But really, TAKE CARE OF YOUR MENTAL HEALTH!!!!
 
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We have found that work ethic is an extremely important, yet very under-rated component of med student success. We have yet to look at timing of start of Boards prep compared to success, because what actually constitutes "Boards prep"? I think that med school IS Boards prep, in a manner of speaking. We have some Classes that start fussing about Boards about a week after orientation..

I suppose I would attempt to define boards prep as reviewing/re-learning/answering questions on any material not currently being taught in regular class. I'd imagine those who are actively using note cards and the commonly used study resources to review past materials are going to score higher.

In my admittedly small sample size, the students at my school who have either scored well (>240) or I expect to score very well based on their practice scores all began board prep at LEAST as early as the start of spring semester M2. Ive seen some studies regarding this as well, with time spent studying and more practice Q's answered being the greatest correlate to a better board score.

Why the overwhelming majority of our faculty tell our students to wait until March/April to begin...I have no idea.
 
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I suppose I would attempt to define boards prep as reviewing/re-learning/answering questions on any material not currently being taught in regular class. I'd imagine those who are actively using note cards and the commonly used study resources to review past materials are going to score higher.

In my admittedly small sample size, the students at my school who have either scored well (>240) or I expect to score very well based on their practice scores all began board prep at LEAST as early as the start of spring semester M2. Ive seen some studies regarding this as well, with time spent studying and more practice Q's answered being the greatest correlate to a better board score.

Why the overwhelming majority of our faculty tell our students to wait until March/April to begin...I have no idea.
March/April??? That's insane!

I typically recommend to my students that they start at the send of Fall OMSII, with particular emphasis to material from Fall OMSI, since that's the stuff they'll be most rusty at.
 
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I would be curious to see how those students with high GPAs fare, when we account for time spent preparing. I would guess amongst the high GPA group, those who started prepping sooner (fall/spring of second year) outperform those who waited.

I think the underlying theme is, those with higher GPA aren't necessarily smarter, they are just harder working. .

While I agree, overall you got to be smart/talented and hard working to be at the top. One or the other won't suffice.
 
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Anyone else waiting for the results from this past April? I was hoping for tomorrow but it is a holiday :(
 
I posted a while back when I failed the 2nd time. So I now failed the third time... 1st time humanistic, 2nd time biomechanical, 3rd time humanistic again... I am clearly doing something wrong. I think it may be my note taking, because I remember my second time I tried to not write as much, but suffered in my SOAP note. But that is just speculation.. I will have to do more digging..

Anyway, my question is that NBOME said that they only allow a student to take the PE 3 times a year. I am wondering how did you take your 4th time so soon?
 
I posted a while back when I failed the 2nd time. So I now failed the third time... 1st time humanistic, 2nd time biomechanical, 3rd time humanistic again... I am clearly doing something wrong. I think it may be my note taking, because I remember my second time I tried to not write as much, but suffered in my SOAP note. But that is just speculation.. I will have to do more digging..

Per NBOME: "The Biomedical/Biomechanical Domain measures skills in Data-Gathering, osteopathic manipulative treatment, and SOAP Notes. The Data-Gathering component reflects skills in history-taking and physical examination. The OMT portion represents performance in osteopathic assessment and manipulative treatment in select cases. The SOAP Note measures communication (synthesizing information gathered in the clinical encounter), clinical problem-solving, integrated differential diagnosis and formulation of a therapeutic plan. Osteopathic principles are incorporated into each of the three areas. Doctor-patient communication, interpersonal skills, and professionalism are measured as part of the Humanistic Domain."

It's not your SOAPs if you are failing humanistic. You are missing something when it comes to empathizing, gowning/draping or as you introduce yourself/discuss plan or treatment. Most people who fail do so by humanistic domain or by falsifying information in the SOAPs.
 
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I mean the 2nd time I passed the humanistic domain, and that was when I tried to not write as much notes during the patient encounter, but because of that my SOAP note suffered, and did poorly on my SOAP writing domain. The first and third time I took it I took more notes during the patient encounter, and passed the biomedical/biomechanical but failed the humanistic. So I am just speculating that I need to be able to have good data gathering and remember what to write for my SOAP note without taking too much notes during the patient encounter.
 
Sorry for the late response everyone, I've been busy. If you have questions regarding the COMLEX STEP 2 PE please mail box me personally. I will issue this blanket statement and testimony that the WVCOM's PE review course helped me work past some of my deficiencies regarding this test. I think it was money well spent.
 
Failing the PE significantly hurts your chances of matching. Its a big redflag for some PDs, so the most effect will be on interview invites if the fail shows up before you submit your app.

Of the people I know who failed the PE (admittedly only a few) none matched, but all were able to SOAP/scramble, and not just into FM spots. 2 had solid apps otherwise. You won't necessarily be limited to FM with a fail on the PE (FM might be harder than other fields with less clinical interaction - but honestly I'm not sure), but you will absolutely be limited geographically and probably lose a shot at the most competitive fields.

Don't worry too much, just be sure to prepare, practice with someone else in a timed way, go through their orientation videos, use the online SOAP note tool, and really practice those social/humanistic things. If you get a smoker, know what you're going to tell them. If someone is scared, know how you're going to comfort them, etc.

I'm certain that my PE failures will effect my future. That being said, I do not lose sleep at night thinking about it. All you can do is proceed the best way you can. For anybody worrying about obtaining a spot for residency, I will say this... I did recently receive multiple offers from residencys all over the country after I passed and I signed a contract this past week. If you would like to know more, please feel free to inbox me.
 
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