Colorectal fellowships anyone?

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update here: I heard from the last 2 programs I was waiting for: Ochsner (as someone already posted) and Brigham, bringing my total to 13 applied, 1 rejection, 12 interview offers. I have 7 but given my new state of anxiety after being a bit on the trail and this board, will see if I can fit in Ochsner and Brigham to make it 9.

Re: dinner before: a few people did not, but most did. I think it's understandable if you can't, but if it's your #1 choice, it's better to do whatever you can to make it.
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Do most programs interview on only one day or are there multiple options? Also, are the interviews only on weekends? I will be applying next year & just want to know what to expect as far as scheduling interviews. I've already planned my wedding for late September & cannot push it back because I've put deposits down. And now I'm stressing about not beig able to make it all work.
 
Just finished interview number six. Man, the way this year is going it feels like there will be even more than the 128-ish applicants who applied for last years match. I will feel fortunate to even match at all this year. I dont know how the PDs are going to make their rank lists.

As far as my interview invites go, the majority of which are during the weekdays. I think i only have one program that interviews on a saturday. I applied to a ton of programs and got 25 invites, but scheduled 14. At that level, there was a great deal of conflict between dates. Best thing to do is accept the programs quickly as they come in, spacing them apart as you can. Cancel interviews if you get too many scheduled in a reasonable time frame of course. There were a couple progs that i waited 2-3 days to accept and all of their dates ended up being filled.

The programs ive been to thusfar have had a ratio of applicants interviewed to positions ratio ranging from 10:1 which is the best ive seen, to as high as 24:1!
 
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Putrescine said:
Just finished interview number six. Man, the way this year is going it feels like there will be even more than the 128-ish applicants who applied for last years match. I will feel fortunate to even match at all this year. I dont know how the PDs are going to make their rank lists.

As far as my interview invites go, the majority of which are during the weekdays. I think i only have one program that interviews on a saturday. I applied to a ton of programs and got 25 invites, but scheduled 14. At that level, there was a great deal of conflict between dates. Best thing to do is accept the programs quickly as they come in, spacing them apart as you can. Cancel interviews if you get too many scheduled in a reasonable time frame of course. There were a couple progs that i waited 2-3 days to accept and all of their dates ended up being filled.

The programs ive been to thusfar have had a ratio of applicants interviewed to positions ratio ranging from 10:1 which is the best ive seen, to as high as 24:1!
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I believe it; though there may be a few more spots available this year, my guess is the # of applicants also went up so if the overall match rate is much above 65%, I'd be surprised. You're right- it amazed me that some places filled up their spots for certain dates in less than 24 hours. Probably makes sense to snap up offers and then try to change, as other people often cancel later in the season.

That said, at 14 hopefully your chances of getting picked up somewhere are pretty good. I do think there are a lot of great people per each spot, and if you're an unknown it's got to be hard for programs to figure out how to rank everyone. I'm lucky some place decided to give me a chance (for whatever reason) though knowing how competitive it was in retrospect, I would have been much more assertive in making contact with the programs closer to the due date for rank lists to make my interest known.

It's definitely a drain on your time and money but as long as you get a spot out of it in the end, it's all good!
 
ajlmd said:
I believe it; though there may be a few more spots available this year, my guess is the # of applicants also went up so if the overall match rate is much above 65%, I'd be surprised. You're right- it amazed me that some places filled up their spots for certain dates in less than 24 hours. Probably makes sense to snap up offers and then try to change, as other people often cancel later in the season.

That said, at 14 hopefully your chances of getting picked up somewhere are pretty good. I do think there are a lot of great people per each spot, and if you're an unknown it's got to be hard for programs to figure out how to rank everyone. I'm lucky some place decided to give me a chance (for whatever reason) though knowing how competitive it was in retrospect, I would have been much more assertive in making contact with the programs closer to the due date for rank lists to make my interest known.

It's definitely a drain on your time and money but as long as you get a spot out of it in the end, it's all good!
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I see from this website that ROLs are due on Halloween, and then match day is November 14th. Good luck to all of you with the match process.

I know many of you are frustrated by the increased competitiveness of the specialty within the last 5 years or so. Be confident that if you are a solid applicant, you have an excellent chance of matching. I recommend that you have your mentors call the program directors from the programs that you like the best. You should definitely show interest in the programs you like, as the rank process is somewhat ego-driven.
 
Yep, rank lists are due in 50 minutes. After much deliberation, finally have settled on a list that I can be happy with. I would be happy to match at any of my fourteen ranks.
 
Certified and Computing. Now waiting for 12pm eastern Nov 14th.

I'd be ecstatic for the Top 4. Happy for 5-8. Satisfied for 9-12. Matched for 13-15.
 
Putrescine said:
Yep, rank lists are due in 50 minutes. After much deliberation, finally have settled on a list that I can be happy with. I would be happy to match at any of my fourteen ranks.
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jubb said:
Certified and Computing. Now waiting for 12pm eastern Nov 14th.

I'd be ecstatic for the Top 4. Happy for 5-8. Satisfied for 9-12. Matched for 13-15.
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CRS has become quite competitive. I have confidence you will both do great.

One thing I will say is that, unlike general surgery, I liked everywhere I interviewed. I think the quality of programs is very high, possibly due to strict standards for accreditation. Even if you guys end up a little down your ROL, I would be happy.
 
Goodluck to all the candidates this year, I have to admit I met a lot nice people on the fellowship trail these past months.
 
Ditto - lots of great people on the trail. I even enjoyed some of my interviews!

So, how exactly do we get notified? Email only? Wiill the PD call us? I will be scrubbed in at the time (noon EST, right?) and can't count on the VA nurses to answer my cell phone...

Best of luck to everyone!
 
treehorsio said:
Ditto - lots of great people on the trail. I even enjoyed some of my interviews!

So, how exactly do we get notified? Email only? Wiill the PD call us? I will be scrubbed in at the time (noon EST, right?) and can't count on the VA nurses to answer my cell phone...

Best of luck to everyone!
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Last year it was promptly posted on the NRMP site at noon eastern. No e-mail was sent or phone call made from that, though some people told me their individual program did call them later in the day to welcome them.

I also was scrubbed during the big time but knew the suspense would kill me during the case if I had to wait so I gave my mother my AAMC ID and PW and had her text me. I also made sure the OR knew I was waiting for the big moment and to please check my phone when it went off. Had to mentally prepare myself for the possibility the message would say I didn't match, but thankfully, that wasn't the case.

I think I was at the point last year where I was counting down the hours until the match. Probably looked at the clock well over 100 times that Wednesday morning. Good luck!!
 
Since i'm post call on the acute care service today, i've had the whole morning to watch the clock tick slowly to noon.

I matched at UT Houston! Needless to say, I am very very pleased with the result, and I am glad this long stressful process is finally complete. Thank you guys on this thread for your guidance.
 
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I guess you can only see that if you didn't match. I think heard a rumor that San Antonio was somehow still considered part of the match even though you couldn't apply for it. Could have been them.
 
Here are the Colorectal Match Stats in case anyone was looking.

matchstats.jpg
 
jubb said:
Here are the Colorectal Match Stats in case anyone was looking.
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Extremely similar to the last few years. I think it's safe to say that CRS has become a very competitive specialty. I recommend future applicants use threads like this to go into the process well-informed and ready to go.

To those that just matched, congratulations and welcome to a career of fingering buttholes. Having been in practice for 4 months now, I couldn't be happier with my choice so far.
 
Hey folks - solely a curiosity question from a non-surgeon. I am too lazy to research this. What do GSx unmatched applicants do next year? Is advice to reapply, are there many/any reapplicants, or do most/all "just do general surgery"?
 
Congratulations to those of you that matched. Celebrating Thanksgiving was a little more fun last year knowing I had a place to go to.

As an aside- SLUser11, do you remember when CARSITE scores came back last year?
 
Apollyon said:
Hey folks - solely a curiosity question from a non-surgeon. I am too lazy to research this. What do GSx unmatched applicants do next year? Is advice to reapply, are there many/any reapplicants, or do most/all "just do general surgery"?
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Are you asking what do GS residents who fail to match into a Colorectal program do?

The answer is: a variety of things. Some may try to get into another fellowship (ie, MIS) and try again, others may do Gen Surg and try again, and others may give up on move on "just doing general surgery".
 
Apollyon said:
Hey folks - solely a curiosity question from a non-surgeon. I am too lazy to research this. What do GSx unmatched applicants do next year? Is advice to reapply, are there many/any reapplicants, or do most/all "just do general surgery"?
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Some people do a year of research at a big CRS institution, which is probably the most effective route to get into CRS eventually.

Others do a "Laparoscopic colorectal fellowship" which is sort of a back-door approach. They can they either call themselves "colorectal surgeons" afterward, but not be board-eligible or generally recognized by the CRS community...or they can re-apply, and I've met several people who did the Lap CRS fellowship followed by a true CRS fellowship.

Others simply choose another route, usually taking a job in general surgery. It's too late after the CRS match to match into something else, but there's also multiple unfilled spots in MIS or critical care that they can snatch up. A lot of people are just tired of training, and would rather just go into practice and make some money.

If I hadn't matched, I would have tried to secure a research position somewhere known for taking their research residents in the subsequent fellowship match (Oschner, Cleveland Clinic, Creighton).


ajlmd said:
As an aside- SLUser11, do you remember when CARSITE scores came back last year?
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I do not remember, as I generally thought it was a silly exercise. The CARSITE is not as structured or validated as the ABSITE, so I can't interpret its relevance.
 
SLUser11 said:
Some people do a year of research at a big CRS institution, which is probably the most effective route to get into CRS eventually.

Others do a "Laparoscopic colorectal fellowship" which is sort of a back-door approach. They can they either call themselves "colorectal surgeons" afterward, but not be board-eligible or generally recognized by the CRS community...or they can re-apply, and I've met several people who did the Lap CRS fellowship followed by a true CRS fellowship.

Others simply choose another route, usually taking a job in general surgery. It's too late after the CRS match to match into something else, but there's also multiple unfilled spots in MIS or critical care that they can snatch up. A lot of people are just tired of training, and would rather just go into practice and make some money.

If I hadn't matched, I would have tried to secure a research position somewhere known for taking their research residents in the subsequent fellowship match (Oschner, Cleveland Clinic, Creighton).
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Hey, thanks for a cogent response. I was posting from my phone before, so I couldn't be as clear as to my motivation - with IM, it is 3 years for a 2 or 3 year fellowship. With GSx, though, it is 5 to 7 years for a 1 to 3 year fellowship, but mostly 2 or less - much less balanced, and, if someone is aiming for the subspecialty, the 5 years (+/- research) is a much longer slog, and the subspec is somewhat to quite different. Since some 40 people didn't match CRS, I was wondering what they do - I mean, either they do general, or they do something else, or they reapply. However, that is like saying "in the day, there is morning, afternoon, evening, and night". That doesn't tell me anything. And my term "just do general surgery" was not an insult - it was just that, if someone was aiming for CRS or SurgOnc or plastics, and didn't get it, is being a GSx really that much of a downside? People that do subspec training may still do some general - they don't say the opposite - "I am a general surgeon, and do some breast surgery/colon/bariatric". The subspec defines much more clearly the professional track.

Thanks again.
 
does anybody have any recommendation for books and study material during fellowship? does anybody know which program didn't match this year?
 
I think you have to tell us where you're going for fellowship before they give you advice about fellowship, I kid, I kid. According to the stats that are viewable on NRMP, the unmatched program was UT San Antonio, but as I remember we couldn't even apply to it as an option. So maybe that means that they must've got back on board, and they are taking/took someone after the match? I don't know for sure, and haven't heard anything in the rumor mill out here in Texas.
 
sharpknife said:
does anybody have any recommendation for books and study material during fellowship? does anybody know which program didn't match this year?
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The ASCRS Textbook is the gold standard. For the boards, you should probably get access to CARSEP as well.

I also own Gordon/Nitvatvong which is okay, and Fazio which is abridged and outdated but good. I am planning on buying the new Corman when I save up enough $$. Of course, I am sort of a textbook nerd and I always have been.

To be honest, most of what you learn at this level is from journals (DCR, etc). Also, the ASCRS website has a lot of good stuff on there (annual meeting archive, core subjects, and position statements).
 
Well, I just took the ABCRS QE/written boards today, and I thought it was reasonable. I can report back in about a month regarding whether or not I passed.

Briefly, the exam is quite similar to the general surgery QE, 240 questions divided over 4 modules. You are given 90 minutes per module with lots of opportunities for breaks, but the exam took me under 3 hours to complete, including a trip to McDonalds after the 2nd module, so the questions are quick.

I can't discuss content, but I should mention that there were a lot of pictures: Path, radiology, and close-ups of patient bungholes.

Preparation is difficult for 2 main reasons: 1) You are a surgeon new-in-practice, and clinical/academic responsibilities will interfere with your study regimen, and 2) since it's such a small field, there is less information about what to study, and there are fewer study resources.

My preparation began over a month ago, but I had 2 weeks where I couldn't find time to study at all. I went through selected chapters of the ASCRS Textbook, skipping stuff I knew well already. I read selected Core Subjects off the ASCRS website, and went through the image library on the ASCRS website. I then went through CARSEP 6, 7, and 8. I went through CARSEP 8 a second time the week prior to the exam.

Now to focus on something more important: Round of 32.....
 
Cool deal. Thats good to hear about the CRS boards.

Just to add to my paranoia at all stages of my training life, one of our newer CRS staff was telling me the other day that 25 or so percent of CRS grads didnt have a job lined up straight out of fellowship. I caught some vibes similar to that through the interview process as well. It sounded like that wouldnt be so much of a problem if you're willing to do GS call or do some Gs in your practice, which I intend to do. Do you agree with this?
 
SLUser11 said:
I can't discuss content, but I should mention that there were a lot of pictures: Path, radiology, and close-ups of patient bungholes.
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They told me those photos were not leaving my private medical record!

Good luck with your boards though.
 
Putrescine said:
Cool deal. Thats good to hear about the CRS boards.

Just to add to my paranoia at all stages of my training life, one of our newer CRS staff was telling me the other day that 25 or so percent of CRS grads didnt have a job lined up straight out of fellowship. I caught some vibes similar to that through the interview process as well. It sounded like that wouldnt be so much of a problem if you're willing to do GS call or do some Gs in your practice, which I intend to do. Do you agree with this?
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I' be interested in a response concerning this statement also, what are your thoughts on this SLUser11?
 
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Putrescine said:
Cool deal. Thats good to hear about the CRS boards.

Just to add to my paranoia at all stages of my training life, one of our newer CRS staff was telling me the other day that 25 or so percent of CRS grads didnt have a job lined up straight out of fellowship. I caught some vibes similar to that through the interview process as well. It sounded like that wouldnt be so much of a problem if you're willing to do GS call or do some Gs in your practice, which I intend to do. Do you agree with this?
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I think it depends on your goals/aspirations. There are plenty of jobs if you're flexible. I know a couple people who didn't have jobs coming out of training, and they were severely limited in their geography, and basically forced themselves into an already over-saturated area.

Jobs are there, but it's more common to find ones that require general surgery. That being said, I recommend that you assert your specialization upfront. It may mean less business initially, but you don't want to be labeled as a general surgeon who likes to do a little colorectal work on the side.
 
I'll be applying for a colorectal fellowship this upcoming cycle (applying 2013 for 2014).

I'm starting to write my personal statement and was looking for tidbits. What do PDs look for in it? Wit? Creativity?

Also, I called ERAS and you can start getting a "token" on June 18. It's been so long since I've used ERAS.-- Anyone out there with experience? Is it easy? Do you need your MSPE from your med school and your ABSITE scores? Do you upload PDF files?

Thanks!

Appreciate any advice.
 
gsurg6forever said:
I'll be applying for a colorectal fellowship this upcoming cycle (applying 2013 for 2014).

I'm starting to write my personal statement and was looking for tidbits. What do PDs look for in it? Wit? Creativity?

Also, I called ERAS and you can start getting a "token" on June 18. It's been so long since I've used ERAS.-- Anyone out there with experience? Is it easy? Do you need your MSPE from your med school and your ABSITE scores? Do you upload PDF files?

Thanks!

Appreciate any advice.
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Hmm...I think most of those questions are answered within this thread. Check out post #16.

Here's a link to my own personal frustration with ERAS.

Are you going to the ASCRS meeting next month?
 
SLUser11: would you recommend CARSEP to a rural general surgeon in private practice who likes question and answer format for staying up on her field, or is it very specific to the minutiae of colorectal surgery that I would likely refer out? I have been working my way through SESAP but always like to think as indepth about a field as is reasonable, especially since colon and benign anorectal is my bread and butter.
 
blue2000 said:
SLUser11: would you recommend CARSEP to a rural general surgeon in private practice who likes question and answer format for staying up on her field, or is it very specific to the minutiae of colorectal surgery that I would likely refer out? I have been working my way through SESAP but always like to think as indepth about a field as is reasonable, especially since colon and benign anorectal is my bread and butter.
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I think some portions of CARSEP are helpful (e.g. anorectal and CR cancer), but other would be of less utility (e.g. cancer and IBD genetics). You may be able to cherry-pick your way through the boring stuff. Overall, I think CARSEP VIII is a nice product. I'm not sure how much CME and MOC you get from it.

On a side note, I passed my written exam, so now it's time to wait for the score/percentile.
 
SLUser11 said:
I think some portions of CARSEP are helpful (e.g. anorectal and CR cancer), but other would be of less utility (e.g. cancer and IBD genetics). You may be able to cherry-pick your way through the boring stuff. Overall, I think CARSEP VIII is a nice product. I'm not sure how much CME and MOC you get from it.

On a side note, I passed my written exam, so now it's time to wait for the score/percentile.
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Congrats!! Does that mean you are officially done with testing til general surgery recert, which to me currently feels like a million years away?
 
blue2000 said:
Congrats!! Does that mean you are officially done with testing til general surgery recert, which to me currently feels like a million years away?
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There is still the CRS CE, which is in the fall. Sadly, the testing never seems to end for me....
 
SLUser11 said:
My preparation began over a month ago, but I had 2 weeks where I couldn't find time to study at all. I went through selected chapters of the ASCRS Textbook, skipping stuff I knew well already. I read selected Core Subjects off the ASCRS website, and went through the image library on the ASCRS website. I then went through CARSEP 6, 7, and 8. I went through CARSEP 8 a second time the week prior to the exam......
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I got my score back today, and I am very pleased...scored slightly better than I did on the ABS QE. The passing raw score was 76%, and the average score among all takers was 81.7%, so perhaps not much room for error. I'm not sure it would be okay with the ABCRS to share the breakdown, but the categories mirror those found in CARSEP. My greatest area of weakness was in the "miscellaneous" category, where I got 1/4 right....not sure how to improve on that.

For those taking the exam in the future, my overall impression was that the questions were very fair and straightforward, so I certainly wouldn't over-analyze small details and talk yourself out of a correct answer. I recommend using a study schedule similar to mine (quoted above), where you start greater than a month out, as other work-related activities will likely dominate your calendar. I will list resources in descending order of utility:

1. CARSEP 8- absolute best resource. I would read it twice.
2. ASCRS textbook- I re-read some topics I felt weak in, but I certainly didn't try to re-read the whole thing. I would avoid using other textbooks for the exam.
3. CARSEP 7- Not as good, but still useful for the basic science stuff
4. Core Subjects (ASCRS website)- Often too shallow, but Dr. Wise's submission on inherited colon cancer helped me on several test questions.
5. Path pictures- Most found using google, but some came from the ASCRS website. You'll certainly have to know the basics.

6. (Distant 6th place): CARSEP 6- Too outdated and opinionated to be useful. I think it actually hurt more than it helped.

When the time comes for the exam, feel free to PM me with any questions.
 
Passed as well, looks like by pure percentage and # of ?s, only 12 correct answers were between average and failing. I too only got 1 of 4 misc ?s right- strange. I echo using CASEP 8 but honestly, reading about your patients and strange problems (which are all over the place in our specialty) as you encounter them in your first 9 months of practice is the best way to prepare.

Just a few thoughts.
 
Hello,

All my applications have been submitted to ERAS. Has anyone heard back from any programs re: interviews? Anyone know when we're typically supposed to start getting interview invites/rejections, and if they're by email/ERAS/snail mail?

Thanks!
 
I was wondering when the next batch was going to bump this thread. I recall getting my first interview invites in early august. Had my app submitted last week of july. UT houston, and cook in particular i remember got back to me first week of august.

You will get the lions share in later august thru mid september, just be patient. I remember getting anxious waiting for them for 7-10 days before i started getting invites. All of them came by email. I remember getting a snail mail reject from Univ of Minnesota in particular. It probably goes without saying, but check your email on the phone and email/call back asap once you get an invite they go pretty fast. It can be challenging because youre waiting to hear back from desired programs while getting invites from your backups, etc.
 
gsurg6forever said:
Hello,

All my applications have been submitted to ERAS. Has anyone heard back from any programs re: interviews? Anyone know when we're typically supposed to start getting interview invites/rejections, and if they're by email/ERAS/snail mail?

Thanks!
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Well, there's no way you've read this entire thread if you're asking that question....props to Putrescine for giving you a serious answer.

Putrescine: on a side note, I don't envy you right now, as I'm sure Houston is hot as Hades. The best piece of advice I can give you: Buy a Bluetooth and a GPS. You don't want to be fumbling with phones while returning pages on the Houston highways, as everyone is aggressive and horrible at driving. GPS just makes life so much easier, especially if it has traffic updates. Good luck!
 
Putrescine said:
I was wondering when the next batch was going to bump this thread. I recall getting my first interview invites in early august. Had my app submitted last week of july. UT houston, and cook in particular i remember got back to me first week of august.

You will get the lions share in later august thru mid september, just be patient. I remember getting anxious waiting for them for 7-10 days before i started getting invites. All of them came by email. I remember getting a snail mail reject from Univ of Minnesota in particular. It probably goes without saying, but check your email on the phone and email/call back asap once you get an invite they go pretty fast. It can be challenging because youre waiting to hear back from desired programs while getting invites from your backups, etc.
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Thanks Putrescine! Yup, the anxiety level is pretty high right now. My application was in the first day allowable so now I guess I just wait patiently. Good to know the interview offers aren't expected to become blasting into my email immediately:)
 
No Problem. I went and bought a bluetooth handset as your advised SLU since this past weekend was my first primary call weekend, and I must say that it is the best 50 dollar investment I could make. Im up at the north rotation now, getting fatter on the unbelievably awesome HNW food.
 
I'm bit concerned that half of the programs I've applied to, haven't even downloaded my documents yet. I know many programs do not start sending invites until late August. Should I be concerned already that they may not even download my docs at all.
Any thoughts out there?
 
Since it isn't even August yet, I will say, don't worry. Like you, I was spying on ERAS daily, applied to 30 plus programs, and probably a handful had downloaded my app by this time. I think the last stragglers downloaded my app by the third week of august. As said in previous posts from last year, invites will trickle slowly in august, pick up by the end of august, and you'll be getting invitations even while you are checking your email in the hotel at your first interviews in late august and early september. My first interview dat was aug 23rd, and my last was october 19, pretty wide range for interviewing at 14 different programs.
 
Thanks Putrescine, it is reassuring to hear that again, all your posts have been very helpful so far, I got my first two interview invites today, so according to you experience documented in other posts, I would say this is pretty early. I am happy and will continue to be patient.
 
Awfully quiet in the colorectal world.
 
Start up the fiber therapy.

I guess the applicant pool this year just isn't savvy on the student doctor thing. I can't imagine this would correlate to less applicants in the match this year. There were 129 people for 88 total positions if I remember correctly for my year. I've been quiet lately because of the Surgery QE which just happened for me yesterday. I'm glad to be done with that, now I can focus on colorectal until the certifying exam comes up...
 
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