Colorectal fellowships anyone?

The secure live connection into the operating room
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I hope its mid august, otherwise i've only heard back from 5 of 35 programs since having the app done on July 18.
Members don't see this ad.
 
I applied to 22, have 4 interviews and 1 rejection. I only had 2 letters of Recommendation until just a couple of days ago, so that may have held me up and made me miss some. Some programs haven't even downloaded my application yet, makes me wonder if they are even matching people this year.
 
hey guys, I see everybody is applying to alot of programs like me, how ya guys scheduling your interviews, are you guys holding off to get them in groups so you can travel efficiently or already booked them as they come, like to see how everybody is approaching them thx
 
Members don't see this ad :)
23 applications; 4 invites and 1 rejection here to date; tried to space out these first four offers and try to build travel groups around those dates, but looks like its gonna be very difficult
 
I have 6 invite one rejection but I apply to 40 plus, I hope more interviews come because I'm trying to leave october open
 
I'm at 36 applied (with one program having not downloaded my application at this point), 4 interviews, 2 rejections. I was also wondering about the status of programs so I decided to come back to this forum to see what was said in the past. It's re-assuring to see that other people are at roughly the same point as me. Right now, I'm just spacing the interviews out as best as I can, and hopefully I will be able to group them together.
 
Again, with my 35 programs:

Have 7 interviews scheduled.
Heard back from two programs who are "still reviewing applications."
 
How is everybody doing on the CRC interview trails? I still haven't got much interviews yet. What are you guys thoughts on conflicting interview dates between university programs vs community programs. Which one do you guys prefer? What are you guys thoughts on programs currently on probation, are they worth interviewing and giving a chance
 
sharpknife said:
How is everybody doing on the CRC interview trails? I still haven't got much interviews yet. What are you guys thoughts on conflicting interview dates between university programs vs community programs. Which one do you guys prefer? What are you guys thoughts on programs currently on probation, are they worth interviewing and giving a chance
Click to expand...

I want to emphasize again that interviews will trickle in through the next month and even into September. I will list some interview invitation dates that I have from old emails, but please keep in mind that it changes every year, and not hearing from these places yet does not mean you are rejected.

Some programs waited forever to download my app (Baylor), and others invited me to interview so late that I just said no because my plate was full (Penn, Louisville).

Late August is when things start to really pick up. Please be patient.

July- UT Houston, Ferguson, LSU, Swedish/Seattle (via actual mail).

Early August (1-15)- U. Chicago/Northwestern, Indiana, SIU, Cook County/UIC

Late August (16-31)- Utah/St. Mark's, Lahey Clinic, Creighton, OHSU, Washington University, Brown, Ochsner, St. Francis (Connecticut), Washington DC, Rejection from Cleveland Clinic (those jerks), letter from Mayo with dates to reserve but no invite....then finally 8/31 a Mayo invite.

Early September- Baylor (last one I scheduled), Louisville, U. Penn, rejection from U. Minn (those tardy jerks).

It was stressful, but I promise that the interviews will start rolling in and you'll feel better.

Good luck!
 
Putrescine said:
I hope its mid august, otherwise i've only heard back from 5 of 35 programs since having the app done on July 18.
Click to expand...

jubb said:
I applied to 22, have 4 interviews and 1 rejection. I only had 2 letters of Recommendation until just a couple of days ago, so that may have held me up and made me miss some. Some programs haven't even downloaded my application yet, makes me wonder if they are even matching people this year.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure I was a medical student where you both are doing residency. Good luck, y'all. :thumbup:
 
Dan Plainview said:
Pretty sure I was a medical student where you both are doing residency. Good luck, y'all. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that you were a student here as well. If the CRS Gods smile upon me, I may be a fellow at your current program in the near future. I never did get to thank you all for the best surgery resident award for 2012.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
anybody know the application pool this year? is there alot that apply to CRC this year or did it go down? any body else got any interviews this week? I didn't have much invites this week
 
I would also like to know about the number of applicants this year, but i guess there is no real way of knowing. I got one invite and one rejection this week. I still haven't heard from most of the programs. I hear that most of them reply later in the month. Has anyone heard from USC? Or would like to share where they have heard from. Thanks
 
I bet its more than the 129 that submitted lists for the 2012 match. It feels like more people are showing interest in the field as time goes on. I have had 16 offers thus far and 1 rejection, in pretty much the same order as SLUser11 stated in an earlier post. All of the big name CRS programs have yet to return an interview invitation.
 
214 said:
I would also like to know about the number of applicants this year, but i guess there is no real way of knowing. I got one invite and one rejection this week. I still haven't heard from most of the programs. I hear that most of them reply later in the month. Has anyone heard from USC? Or would like to share where they have heard from. Thanks
Click to expand...

I don't know how to be more any more helpful. Look at the dates from my previous post and try your best to feel better. More invites are likely coming soon.

As for the number of applicants, it may fluctuate from year to year, but the number of quality applicants is likely similar, and the US allopathic match rate will likely remain about the same for now. CRS is a very competitive specialty, and people will have to work hard to match.

In the future, it will likely become even harder to match as the specialty separates itself from general surgery. In addition to more chief residents showing interest, there are many people reapplying after taking the "back door" approach (pun intended) by doing an unaccredited "laparoscopic colorectal surgery" fellowship to improve their resume.

Plastics, Peds, and Surg Onc are still more difficult matches obviously, but I think people need to respect CRS and approach the match in a methodical manner in order to secure a position.
 
yeah I didn't hear much last week but a rejection, I hope I hear more next week, anybody hear from lehigh valley in allentown
 
Last edited:
10 interviews invites, 1 that I can't fit in my schedule so 9 interviews scheduled so far. As stated elsewhere, none of them seem to be from the biggest name places. Had several come in 3 weeks after the programs could start downloading them. Then it's been trickling in ever since. Just got one before right before this past weekend.

I have two scheduled for this month(August, and then an even split between September and October for the other 7. I Have tried to spread them out evenly to leave room for other invites, and to give my fellow residents a break, but I'm not sure I can really do much more than 10 interviews, due to financial constraints, call schedule, wanting to see my family, and not wanting to miss 2 months in the OR while I'm on the Colorectal service. I may not count the 3 that are in driving distance into that ten, so maybe I would do 13 interviews tops. So if things do continue trickling I may have some hard decisions to make on how to narrow down the ones I can actually go to.

A recommendation for future applicants. Apply to at least some programs that take more than 1 applicant or else figure out how you are going to do 15 interviews. I feel better knowing that several of my interviews are at programs that take 2-4 applicants. That way I'm putting my name in the match for more positions. With my 9 interviews, I am in for 17 spots.
 
I havent heard from lehigh valley either
 
As an update: Applied to 23 programs; so far 11 total invites, 1 invite which I had to decline due to date conflicts, 2 rejections. 2 programs 'reviewing applications' with no further message; and 10 programs have not heard anything from.

Will be doing 10 interviews thus far with 24 positions available from those programs. Hoping that this is enough interviews/available positions to secure a spot. Still holding out to hear from a couple of the top programs, but I am not planning to do more than 12 interviews total.

Actually one upper middle-tier program that I am disappointed that I haven't heard from yet which had worked its way into my top 3 due to location and reputation. Suspicious, but not sure if they have released interviews yet. Anyone think there is any benefit (or by contrast risk/harm?) in contacting the program secretary/coordinator to check on status?
 
powderskier said:
As an update: Applied to 23 programs; so far 11 total invites, 1 invite which I had to decline due to date conflicts, 2 rejections. 2 programs 'reviewing applications' with no further message; and 10 programs have not heard anything from.

Will be doing 10 interviews thus far with 24 positions available from those programs. Hoping that this is enough interviews/available positions to secure a spot. Still holding out to hear from a couple of the top programs, but I am not planning to do more than 12 interviews total.

Actually one upper middle-tier program that I am disappointed that I haven't heard from yet which had worked its way into my top 3 due to location and reputation. Suspicious, but not sure if they have released interviews yet. Anyone think there is any benefit (or by contrast risk/harm?) in contacting the program secretary/coordinator to check on status?
Click to expand...
Man I'm having tenesmus with this process, I am humble and will go anywhere. Is there a magic number in the number of interviews you get ensures you'll match?
 
Does anyone know the average number of candidates programs interview on each interview date they have?
 
Of my 35 programs - which only has a couple top tier programs on it:

14 Interviews scheduled - for 24 possible positions.
3 Interview invitations turned down due to scheduling conflict
3 Rejections (one by snail-mail from an elite program)
2 Programs sent notice early that they are still "reviewing applications"
13 Programs still to hear from.

16-17 is probably going to be my limit. First interview coming Aug 23-24.
I too would like to match anywhere at this point - with research publications being the weakest part of my application. I'm more stressed about this than I was for General Surgery Interviews.
 
Yeah I have 8 lined up ... Not sure if any more are possible due to logistical limitations/date conflicts ...
Match Day Nov 14th I'll be on my honeymoon in Hawaii ... Either I'll be really happy or pissed ...
 
214 said:
Does anyone know the average number of candidates programs interview on each interview date they have?
Click to expand...

A couple of my interview invitations have been sent with the emails of all the people invited. For those it seems to be about 20 per spot.
 
Picked up 3 more interviews this week, and one Invite I can't really fit in my schedule.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
In comparison to last year, it seems like the volume of invites is rolling in more slowly. That said, some did come in late August through the second week of September.

It may be that the % of invites per number you apply will end up panning out as similar to the last few years. When it's all said and done, if more people are getting less interviews in comparison to the people from the last 2-3 years, it's interesting to speculate why. I'm sure all of us as candidates were/ are well-qualified though IMO many places already have people in mind they want and some candidates are so well-connected they're pretty much a sure shot. In some ways, rejection sucks, but in retrospect, I think I'd rather be rejected than pay $500 + a pop to go to places where realistically I had no chance.

At the risk being the bearer of doom and gloom (and I'm sure antagonizing some people), having been through the match and somehow fortunate to get a spot, I would highly advise if you are NOT well-connected in the CRS community, that you go to every single interview humanly possible.

Even if that means ticking off your program, spending over $10,000 in the process, running up your credit cards, begging people to make calls for you, etc, etc.

15-20 interviews is NOT an unreasonable number if you don't have connections. Here's why:

- I did do nearly 20 in the end and made friends with many people from last year's trail. With very few exceptions, everyone you meet are socially adept, reasonable people with fairly strong CVs. Granted, there are a few who were superstars that gave podium presentations at meetings and had their names on multiple decent papers, but that wasn't the majority

Based on at least the 1-2 dozen or so people I've kept in touch with, there was a HUGE discrepancy with where people matched on their rank list/ whether they matched at all and their connections. Cases and point:

- One friend with an overall strong CV, very personable, US grad from a decent program, great scores with no big name phone calls to the programs of choice interviewed at 14... and matched at #14.

- 2 others in similar situations- strong CVs, from decent (though not top dog) surgery residencies, US grads with no big name advocates and phone calls matched at 12 or lower

- 4 people without connections, all 4 also good candidates on paper & reasonable people with no big red flags interviewed at 14 or more and did not match. One of which interviewed at 21...

- I recently went to a CR fellows course. Good course and fun to meet up with old interview friends. 4 people that showed up were fellows at one of the "top 5." Granted, I'm sure they were all extremely well-qualified people but I found it interesting that of the nearly 20 people at the course, I had seen almost everyone there during the interview season... with the exception of these 4, who I never saw even once. And I interviewed at most of the "big 5" programs. Admittedly, this all may be purely coincidental but I found it curious.

- I have an interview friend that is well-connected, strong, etc and did match at a big name. This person is certainly well-qualified for it though did tell me that one of their big mentors/ advocates said it was not necessary that they interview at more than 5-7 places.

The way I see it, the situation is what it is, and if you want a spot, get ready to slug it out via a lot of interviews, in particular if you are not connected in the CRS community. In the absence of prohibitive scheduling conflicts, I would accept every single invite.

In defense of all involved, there are a lot of great candidates competing for programs that offer just a few spots. When the PDs tell you how much they like you, that may very well be true. However, if you are their 3rd or 4th choice in a place with 2 spots, you may be SOL regardless.

I guess I can't blame PD's when they are faced with 10-20 + great candidates for each of their spots choosing people that are "known entities" or those who come with great word of mouth from one of their buddies. I'd like to think there's a reasonable number of places that are willing to give a chance to someone who's great but an unknown but being realistic, I'd still recommend increasing your odds by having your name in as many pots as possible.

If you have a mentor that you think may be a connection, I wouldn't be above begging and pleading if necessary for them to be calling your top choices the last few weeks before ROL are due. I also would send thank you letters to multiple people you interviewed with to your top choices as well. Make sure phone calls are being made for you before the program's ROL are due...I can't emphasize this enough.

General surgery in itself has gotten increasingly competitive, though CRS is a completely different deck of cards. Being that you obviously want this bad enough to put the hard work into it already and dish out the $$ and time, I wouldn't let anything slide by the wayside when it comes to increasing your chances. I'd go as far to say that if you have a mentor that you think could put in a favorable call, ask them and then follow up with them multiple times if necessary to ensure that it happens before programs finalize their ROL.

Supposedly, given the dissolution of integrated plastics programs and for unknown reasons with surg onc, colorectal was behind only peds and hepatobiliary in regards to # applicants/ # matched this past year. Though I'm honestly too tired to find the specific statistics, I think it's fair to say this is a very competitive match. I found the process to be exhausting, disingenuous, and extremely expensive, but if you want this badly enough, I can only hope I help someone when I say to do everything you can while you have the chance to get a good spot.

Good luck
 
Wow ajlmd. Where was this post when I started applying. Thanks so much for the info.

Sounds like I'm going to have to call in a lot of favors to match and should consider myself incredibly lucky if I end up on the top half of my rank list. I'm glad I had this post to reset my expectations and re-motivate my efforts.
 
Hi jubb, I hope that my advice helps someone! I also wish I would have heard this last year because I would have been much more proactive on getting someone to call on my behalf. I figure that worse (and yet best) case scenario is that someone may over-interview because of it, match at one of their top picks, and feel like they spent too much $$ on the process because of what I said. On the other hand, I hope that considering the above may help someone who otherwise is a great candidate get a spot that otherwise wouldn't if they interview at/ have calls made to too few. Good luck
 
Ajlmd, thank you so much for your post.
this question is for everyone
What is the appropriate way to thank the programs? A hand written simple thank you card, a typed letter, an email, or some other method? what is the norm?
 
Is this a real thread or a joke thread?
 
214 said:
What is the appropriate way to thank the programs? A hand written simple thank you card, a typed letter, an email, or some other method? what is the norm?
Click to expand...

I hated written letters from medical students when we did our residency interviews. Fellowship is a smaller pool, and not everyone is as electronic as me. Still trying to decide how I'm going to handle it.
 
How are you all getting the time off, my program is being pretty difficult about all this ... I have 10 lined up and definitely impossible that they will allow me to do anymore ...
 
Hi,

I generally used e-mail unless if someone actually send a printed and/or signed letter (LSU and UT-Houston come to mind.) In those cases, I typed and signed a snail-mail letter back to them.

I otherwise used e-mail but if there was any question, I contacted the program coordinator and asked how they thought the PD would rather be addressed (phone, regular mail, e-mail.)

I can empathize with the limitations in how much time you can take off. Unfortunately with regulations that state chiefs have to complete 48/52 weeks of their PGY-5 year on duty, taking time off to interview can be challenging, if not punishing. Some places may be creative, meaning that if you show up to do some clinical duties (AM rounds or PM post-op checks, for example) that may fly for a day of credit and not a day off. This may increase the numbers that you can squeeze in.

My personal opinion is if a program wants their graduates to get what they want in a competitive specialty, they will and should accommodate; however, it can be harder for some than for others. Hopefully you all will match highly and this will be a moot point though based on the recent years, I'd try to do as many as possible so that you have a safe back-up plan.
 
Hi fellow applicants,

Glad to see this string is getting some business! It's so hard to get the word on the street otherwise.

I have been on two interviews and got a bit nervous - my mentor told me going on 7-8 interviews would be fine, so I ended up canceling my 2nd tier choices when I got my 1st tier choices, but now sort of am regretting that.

I applied to 13, got 1 rejection and 10 offers, canceled 3 offers, have 7 set up. Still haven't heard from Brigham or Ochsner - has anyone else?

I am trying to round before every interview so I don't have to count that as vacation/day off.
 
I'm curious to know the psychology of those cutting colons and rectums for a living. Fascinating.
 
Leo Aquarius said:
I'm curious to know the psychology of those cutting colons and rectums for a living. Fascinating.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to know the psychology of those trolling a forum.
 
I don't think Ochsner has sent out interviews yet. My attending called a friend there a couple weeks ago and said it hasn't been sent and that interview days are in October. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
anybody else know of any other programs that hasn't send out invites, I guess we are getting close to the end on invitations thx
 
Leo Aquarius said:
I'm curious to know the psychology of those cutting colons and rectums for a living. Fascinating.
Click to expand...

southernIM said:
I'd advise you to stop questioning a field you clearly know very little about.
Click to expand...

jubb said:
I'm curious to know the psychology of those trolling a forum.
Click to expand...

This one line seems to have set you both on edge. Trolling? Really?

It reminds me of that exchange in "City Slickers":

Phil Berquist: Where are you from?
Ben Jessup: Baltimore. We have a dental practice there.
Mitch Robbins: Really, you're both dentists?
Steve Jessup: Yes! We're black AND we're dentists. Let's not make an issue out of it.
Ben Jessup: Eh, they're not making an issue of it. You're making an issue of it.

And, by the way - top marks for the irony of "stop questioning a field you clearly know very little about". OK...let's see - only question if you know much about it? Is that it? For, then, if one knew much about it...one might not have questions. Correct?

(And if anyone suggest I am trolling, that person clearly doesn't understand the term.)
 
Leo Aquarius said:
Is this a real thread or a joke thread?
Click to expand...

Leo Aquarius said:
I'm curious to know the psychology of those cutting colons and rectums for a living. Fascinating.
Click to expand...

Apollyon said:
This one line seems to have set you both on edge. Trolling? Really?

(And if anyone suggest I am trolling, that person clearly doesn't understand the term.)
Click to expand...

Leo is certainly trolling, based on his 2 posts in this thread. I'm not surprised that he encountered a negative response.

Now, let's satisfy his desire and turn this into a "joke thread."

What is the definition of a proctoscope?














A lighted instrument with an @$$hole on both ends.:D
 
ajlmd said:
It may be that the % of invites per number you apply will end up panning out as similar to the last few years. When it's all said and done, if more people are getting less interviews in comparison to the people from the last 2-3 years, it's interesting to speculate why.
Click to expand...

It may be that they are decreasing the number of people they interview. The pediatric programs did this last year, with each program only interviewing ~24-30 applicants. I think it worked out well for them, and it saved the applicants time and money, so it was a win-win.
 
SLUser11 said:
Leo is certainly trolling, based on his 2 posts in this thread. I'm not surprised that he encountered a negative response.
Click to expand...

southernIM said:
you're right. Questioning was a poor choice of words. Should have gone with "disparaging"
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I don't know the guy, and, although having seen his first post before, did not recall it or make note of it. I guess I sounded like I was defending him.

I intend no offense. Colorectal and surg onc are "tough gets", and, as such, attract stronger doctors. I guess that's why I didn't think it was a problem - because you guys are good enough that you don't have to care when someone is being douche-y.

I'll leave you with an anecdote from a guy I knew - grew up in Wales, then settled in Manchester after a 6 year tour in the British Army: "You know, you might get tired of sex, but you'll never not enjoy a good dump!" Quite sincerely, I don't believe truer words were ever spoken.

A telling thing is that, more than 6 years out of residency, the first two surgeons whose names I recall from then (and I have to search my brain and the internet for the names of others) are CR guys.
 
I thought we were done getting invites and then I got two more interviews invites today. Ochsner and Grant medical center in Columbus. I'm not really expecting any more.

I guess for future applicants, the interview invites trickled in from last week of July to first week of September.
 
Have heard from the majority of the programs now. There are still four programs that I haven't heard anything from.

Did 35 programs
24 interview offers
7 rejections - no love from any of the elite programs. Hurts a little bit, but realistically, anyone with 2 or more publications would look better than me on paper.
 
Oh I guess I'm out of luck for Ochsner, which 4 have you not heard from putrescine. How ya managing to go to so many interviews but its awesome you got so many. I'm only have 9 booked
 
Is everyone able to make it to the dinners some programs have the night before? Does it hurt your chances if you can't make it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

Medstart108
non-ACGME super fellowships
Replies
0
Views
658
Medstart108
Medstart108
D
Surgery fellowships for international surgical graduates
Replies
2
Views
767
Desargues
D
ShySpliceosome
ABSITE Studying after Fellowship Acceptance
Replies
2
Views
661
Lem0nz
Lem0nz
Bassurgery
Is a research year necessary to get into a cardiothoracic surgery fellowship?
Replies
0
Views
92
Bassurgery
Bassurgery
R
Highest volume craniosynostosis centers /fellowships in the world?
Replies
1
Views
862
OnePunchBiopsy
OnePunchBiopsy
Top