Clinical experience ideas?

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V781

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I see that Patient Care as well as Health Care Experience is required (1000-2000 hours).

I'm in Northern California. I was interested in taking a 2 month Phlebotomy program, particularly at Kaiser, next summer so that I could go on to work part time as a Phlebotomist while doing school full-time. This would have been a great time because it is during a summer break.

But I see that people have a lot of difficulty getting hired after being certified. I assume that Kaiser isn't hiring those that recently graduate from their program?

Is the only real option to go into Medical Assisting? This would be difficult for me because the programs usually require more hours and would not allow me to get through my time-consuming math/science classes (that I absolutely need to take this year). From what I hear, EMT is hectic and takes a toll on studies...

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EMT, CNA/STNA/MA, and phlebotomy are the 3 shortest routes to gain HCE.
 
I am interested in Phlebotomy. But is it difficult to get hired after completion of the program? I've heard complaints that everyone wants experience - nobody is willing to take on newly certified Phlebotomists...

Phlebotomy would allow me to start racking up hours as soon as possible and the program would fit in between my courses - in the condition that I get hired.

For medical assisting, would I need to halt my undergraduate classes for a year? I know that some of these programs are full time... and I really just need to get my BS degree. It's my top priority.


Also, would both patient care and health care hours be covered by one of these jobs? Or would I need to work as a Phlebotomist for a period and then something like a Lab tech for another period so as to fulfill both requirements?
 
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Why do you feel like you need healthcare experience?

The thing about healthcare experience is that if you have good grades, you need very little of it to get into most PA programs. And the PA programs that require more than just a token amount of healthcare experience typically want it to be high quality... like paramedic, respiratory therapy, nursing, or maybe EMT-basic (if you have a lot of it). I definitely wouldn't take a lot of time to get an MA certificate so you can go work entry level healthcare work, and still not have a great shot at the programs that want real healthcare experience.

The best advice anyone can give you is to get the best grades you can. All the other stuff is just a distraction. Good grades will be the single most important thing for opening doors for you to get into PA school. You can have awesome healthcare experience, and lose out to someone with really great grades at the majority of PA programs out there right now.
 
Why do you feel like you need healthcare experience?

The thing about healthcare experience is that if you have good grades, you need very little of it to get into most PA programs. And the PA programs that require more than just a token amount of healthcare experience typically want it to be high quality... like paramedic, respiratory therapy, nursing, or maybe EMT-basic (if you have a lot of it). I definitely wouldn't take a lot of time to get an MA certificate so you can go work entry level healthcare work, and still not have a great shot at the programs that want real healthcare experience.

The best advice anyone can give you is to get the best grades you can. All the other stuff is just a distraction. Good grades will be the single most important thing for opening doors for you to get into PA school. You can have awesome healthcare experience, and lose out to someone with really great grades at the majority of PA programs out there right now.

Thanks for replying. I've just heard a lot about how necessary it is to collect clinical experience hours and have seen on various program websites that though a minimum is required, the average admitted applicant has completed a lot more than the minimum # of hours so as to be competitive. I've seen ranges from 500-2000 hours.

From Stanford's website (only school in my current area):
  • Clinical Experience: 2,941.96
  • Research: 899.56
  • Volunteer: 796.6
OHSU's website:
• Average HCE 2.8 years (range 1-15 years of experience)

Most other schools (Drexel, Touro, Northern Arizona, etc) say 500 is a minimum but most do more..
 
The big question is how your grades compare to the grades and GPA of applicants. Stanford is one of those very high HCE schools, along with Drexel. Being a CNA, even for a year, is going to be a tough sell for those places. They are looking to train folks that are former paramedics and nurses, etc. But overall, there are many more programs that are looking for the minimum hce, and look harder at the grades. If you are a CNA with 2 years experience with a 3.0, you will fare poorly compared to someone with a 3.8 and the minimum requirement of hce. But Stanford is considered one of the big guns as far as HCE.
 
The big question is how your grades compare to the grades and GPA of applicants. Stanford is one of those very high HCE schools, along with Drexel. Being a CNA, even for a year, is going to be a tough sell for those places. They are looking to train folks that are former paramedics and nurses, etc. But overall, there are many more programs that are looking for the minimum hce, and look harder at the grades. If you are a CNA with 2 years experience with a 3.0, you will fare poorly compared to someone with a 3.8 and the minimum requirement of hce. But Stanford is considered one of the big guns as far as HCE.

Yes, I don't expect to get into Stanford or have high hopes for it though it is the closest program in proximity to me and I would prefer to stay in this area... I included it to show the high end. I have three more years -all science/math courses (O Chem, Physics, Calc, Bio, Genetics, Cell Bio, A&P, etc etc)- so I can't say for sure how my GPA will compare. But I don't picture it being above 3.6. If I worked clinic hours part time for three years, I could have 3000 hours - volunteer, patient contact and hospital experience. I feel like I need it to be as competitive as possible. I worry about the interview portion because I don't tend to interview well.
 
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Get your CNA certification or MST certification. Apply to any hospital system and get into Emergency Department Technician position or Patient Care Technician position at the Med Surg, ICU, OR. These are great opportunities to get acute care clinical experience !
 
You have 3 years to work on your interview skills. As far as grades, here's the thing about entry level HCE... It's not impressive compared to grades. You aren't going to compel a school to take you by having mediocre grades, but a boatload of butt wiping experience. If that tended to work, you'd see struggling students just camp out as CNAs until they amassed a large amount of hours to impress a PA program. You'd be better served by not distracting yourself with a job and just throwing yourself at school. 3000 doesn't even equate to more than 1.5 work years full time. That's nothing. Most schools don't require near that. Programs would rather have a good student with the minimum amount of hours and good grades. The reason why that is is because anyone can be a CNA and do those easy skills that CNAs have. But PA school is hard, and seats are too valuable to waste on someone that is at risk of flunking out. They want somewhat of a guarantee that they will get your entire $100,000 you will pay for tuition. Good grades prove to them that you have what it takes. Being a CNA for a year and a half means nothing. The LAST thing on your mind should be for you to waste energy trying to land a job that anyone could get. Worry about positioning yourself to get good grades. If that means working in a call center for 4 hours at a time instead of pulling 12 hour shifts at the hospital, then that's what you do. Otherwise, you'll be one of the folks that is asking advice in 3 years on how to get into PA school with a 2.9 GPA because you tried to juggle too much. The answer to that question is "you don't get into PA school with a 2.9 gpa in 3 years because it's too competetive.
 
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You have 3 years to work on your interview skills. As far as grades, here's the thing about entry level HCE... It's not impressive compared to grades. You aren't going to compel a school to take you by having mediocre grades, but a boatload of butt wiping experience. If that tended to work, you'd see struggling students just camp out as CNAs until they amassed a large amount of hours to impress a PA program. You'd be better served by not distracting yourself with a job and just throwing yourself at school. 3000 doesn't even equate to more than 1.5 work years full time. That's nothing. Most schools don't require near that. Programs would rather have a good student with the minimum amount of hours and good grades. The reason why that is is because anyone can be a CNA and do those easy skills that CNAs have. But PA school is hard, and seats are too valuable to waste on someone that is at risk of flunking out. They want somewhat of a guarantee that they will get your entire $100,000 you will pay for tuition. Good grades prove to them that you have what it takes. Being a CNA for a year and a half means nothing. The LAST thing on your mind should be for you to waste energy trying to land a job that anyone could get. Worry about positioning yourself to get good grades. If that means working in a call center for 4 hours at a time instead of pulling 12 hour shifts at the hospital, then that's what you do. Otherwise, you'll be one of the folks that is asking advice in 3 years on how to get into PA school with a 2.9 GPA because you tried to juggle too much. The answer to that question is "you don't get into PA school with a 2.9 gpa in 3 years because it's too competetive.

Oh no, I don't expect to have a 2.9...I won't let that happen. If that did, I would retake bad courses before ever applying. I'm currently reading the O. Chem chapters two months before the class begins. I'm really wanting to change my situation and I'm getting older so I don't see myself giving up.

I've been visiting the PA forum as well as this one and it appears that the majority of people were accepted to their schools with around a mid 3.0. If someone were in the higher 3.0, then they were applying to schools like Yale, Stanford, and Duke. But I've been reading around a lot and people say that some schools prefer to look at GPA/numbers while others prefer more HCE hours...and there's no clear way to decide which they prefer. Accepted students in those forums and on youtube have said they were surprised to be accepted into more difficult schools while rejected from the easier ones.

They say HCE is required and/or expected by all programs because a lot of the material in the program requires knowledge of how the hospital works. People say their class is held back by those few students who lack HCE because simple hospital procedures, terminology and practices have to be explained to them. It is a very short program, so they don't have time to spend catching people up. Med School doesn't require experience because they have 4 years to learn. It has also been brought up that historically, the PA position was conceived for those who had already been a professional in the health field and wanted to move on to greater responsibilities/more independence. So admissions boards want to respect this to an extent, even if it isn't something like respiratory therapy or radio tech - PA is not an entry level position, but rather, one that requires a lot of hospital experience. To add, they understand that the health field is not for everyone and fear having someone figure that out in the middle of the program. They don't want dropouts and poor grades to represent them. They probably prefer a position higher up than MA or EMT, but understand that through school, these are what students can handle. A 2 year program (rad tech or other) might be heading too far off the necessary path. They simply want you to be around the hospital and to be dealing with hospital patients.

To add, I've been working anyways while getting through school. I have to make payments and with the occasional bump in the road, I do get behind. So I can't possibly afford to not work through school. I've been working as a server, which PA schools do not particularly appreciate or consider. It is time to get some experience in health care. Part time would be necessary.
 
Every PA school has different criteria for what they want to see. I agree with the folks on the PA forum that tell you that folks should have a decent amount of HCE racked up by the time they get into schools. You are the one that has to pay your bills, so I can't see anything wrong with getting HCE. But overall, most of the schools out there are really interested in high GPA. High GPA opens more doors by far than any other factor. Keep in mind that most PA schools have more than 8 people applying for each seat they offer. Those seats go to people with good grades, and people with good grades who have HCE. So in that respect, HCE never hurts to put yourself farther ahead. It sounds like you have a plan for being a good student. My overall point is just that THE biggest advantage you can give yourself is the grades.
 
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