Chances of St georges carribean medical?

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You sound jealous man lol. I think it's because you wish that was YOU lol. Nah don't be too upset bro. If I was you I'd be jealous too.

It's not about me, I'm proving Skip wrong because he is wrong. Why does anyone care you ask? Because that's where a low 20 MCAT score will get you. Say international radiology nice and slow and say it a few more times so it sticks then take it to the bank. That's no mickey mouse family practice there my friend. Isn't that what you do?
Jealous? Where in the world did that even come from? As a carib grad who scored a 255+ and matched at their top program... I think i am the furthest from jealous you could find. Do you honestly believe that anyone with a low 20 mcat will be as successful or more so than someone who scored in the 30's?

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Outlier or not is besides the point. The point is never say an MCAT score predicts anything because you will be proven wrong. INTERVENTIONAL RADIOLOGY...it has a nice ring to it actually.
Do you know what the term "predict" means in the context of a statistical discussion?
 
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Jealous? Where in the world did that even come from? As a carib grad who scored a 255+ and matched at their top program... I think i am the furthest from jealous you could find. Do you honestly believe that anyone with a low 20 mcat will be as successful or more so than someone who scored in the 30's?

Are you blind? Didn't you just see what I posted?
 
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Do you know what the term "predict" means in the context of a statistical discussion?

I wasn't talking statistics so no I do not. I look at the big picture. My friend can represent anybody actually. He wasn't going to let that MCAT score hold him back. What did he do? He killed it at SGU, got to a US school, and then grew some wings and took flight.

I don't think he's necessarily smarter than the next person but hey I could be wrong because I'm not an interventional radiologist lol.
 
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I wasn't talking statistics so no I do not. I look at the big picture. My friend can represent anybody actually. He wasn't going to let that MCAT score hold him back. What did he do. He killed it at SGU, got to a US school, and then grew some wings and took flight.
And mugsy bogues played for years in the nba, yet being shorter than 5'6" is a predictor that you don't get in the nba.
 
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And mugsy bogues played for years in the nba, yet being shorter than 5'6" is a predictor that you don't get in the nba.

Mugsy Bogues was a terrible basketball player. My friend is an interventional radiologist with zero debt.
 
I merely ask that you all keep an open mind.

Look, step 1 does not equal mcat. We can all agree to that sentiment. However, a predictor of medical school performance and step 1 performance, there is no better vehicle of prediction. We truly can't extrapolate data from gpa alone. There needs to be an added layer of non-discriminatory data and the mcat does this. Scratch that, standardization does this.


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I wasn't talking statistics so no I do not. I look at the big picture. My friend can represent anybody actually. He wasn't going to let that MCAT score hold him back. What did he do? He killed it at SGU, got to a US school, and then grew some wings and took flight.

I don't think he's necessarily smarter than the next person but hey I could be wrong because I'm not an interventional radiologist lol.

N=1, and will stipulate although still unverified

(Yawn.)

Dear Everyone Else:

Don't make critical life decisions based on anecdotes. Chances are it will not work out for you.

Yours truly,

Skip
 
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Look, step 1 does not equal mcat. We can all agree to that sentiment. However, a predictor of medical school performance and step 1 performance, there is no better vehicle of prediction. We truly can't extrapolate data from gpa alone. There needs to be an added layer of non-discriminatory data and the mcat does this. Scratch that, standardization does this.


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The predictor of medical school performance are MEDICAL SCHOOL EXAMS. You take tests at your school right? the NBME comp shelf or the schools exit exam will predict STEP 1 performance and that is why they exist.

If you want to use the MCAT argument for a US program, go right ahead. I'm talking about Caribbean programs and some of these programs don't even screen the MCAT and people still match and get fellowships! Why are you leaving this out?

If you're argument held any water, PD's would ask for your MCAT scores so they can dig back farther to be able to better "predict" your performance as a resident. Sounds preposterous to me.
 
The predictor of medical school performance are MEDICAL SCHOOL EXAMS. You take tests at your school right? the NBME comp shelf or the schools exit exam will predict STEP 1 performance and that is why they exist.

If you want to use the MCAT argument for a US program, go right ahead. I'm talking about Caribbean programs and some of these programs don't even screen the MCAT and people still match and get fellowships! Why are you leaving this out?

If you're argument held any water, PD's would ask for your MCAT scores so they can dig back farther to be able to better "predict" your performance as a resident. Sounds preposterous to me.

:smack:

-Skip
 
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The predictor of medical school performance are MEDICAL SCHOOL EXAMS. You take tests at your school right? the NBME comp shelf or the schools exit exam will predict STEP 1 performance and that is why they exist.

If you want to use the MCAT argument for a US program, go right ahead. I'm talking about Caribbean programs and some of these programs don't even screen the MCAT and people still match and get fellowships! Why are you leaving this out?

If you're argument held any water, PD's would ask for your MCAT scores so they can dig back farther to be able to better "predict" your performance as a resident. Sounds preposterous to me.

I understand your argument. Not saying it doesn't hold water. What I am saying, is we buy insurance to protect our investments right? The federal government needs to ensure that you have a statistical likelihood to succeed before loaning out copious amounts of cash. The mcat is just an insurance policy. It isn't a perfect correlation but we can't argue that it exists with a near 95% attrition to USMGs vs 60-70 in the Caribbean. Can't deny the data


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I understand your argument. Not saying it doesn't hold water. What I am saying, is we buy insurance to protect our investments right? The federal government needs to ensure that you have a statistical likelihood to succeed before loaning out copious amounts of cash. The mcat is just an insurance policy. It isn't a perfect correlation but we can't argue that it exists with a near 95% attrition to USMGs vs 60-70 in the Caribbean. Can't deny the data


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No, it doesn't hold water. He's trying to say that there is no correlation which is complete b.s. and beyond ill-informed.

This is the Gambler's fallacy. It is why, when there is a large sum in a lottery jackpot, everyone goes out and plays. Likewise, even when they lose, they still believe that they almost picked the right numbers, that they will be more lucky next time, or that they just need to play again because eventually they will beat the odds.

Likewise, it is the rare individual, in this example, who can overcome a pattern of poor performance leading to horrible test scores. Don't kid yourselves otherwise.

Years ago my aunt was in a car accident where she was thrown from the car, was intubated and received chest compressions on the way to the hospital, spent almost two weeks in the ICU, and had numerous other surgeries in follow-up. Guess what? She wasn't wearing her seat belt. You want to hear something even more shocking? She still doesn't wear her seat belt because some idiot told her that if she'd been wearing one she "surely would have been killed." There is no way to know this on an individual level. What did this ***** who told her that have that the rest of us don't? Magic powers? A crystal ball? Omniscience?

I've produced a few of the litany of studies that clearly demonstrate that MCAT scores predict success. It doesn't mean they guarantee success. It doesn't mean that someone who got a 37 on the MCAT won't still fail out of medical school for a variety of reasons. What it does mean is that the law of averages determines that, if you do poorly on the MCAT that you are likely to do poorly in medical school.

Everything else is irrelevant in this discussion. If you struggle with standardized tests - and you can't fix that fundamental problem - you are going to struggle in medicine which relies highly on them. I don't care what "exceptions to the rule" anyone can produce. There's a reason it's a rule.

-Skip
 
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Nobody is arguing that the MCAT is bad. I'm arguing that it's not as important as you would think in the grand scheme of things.

But for the sake of this argument lets look at a few things here....

1. Most of these Caribbean schools put a very low weight on the MCAT to begin with. Some schools like AUA have an article on their webite ARGUING AGAINST using it for the purpose of admissions. Anybody scoring very high on the MCAT would be a fool to apply to the Caribbean without bumping up their GPA to get into a US program. I would argue most people end up in the Caribbean because of the MCAT score NOT the GPA.

2. Not wearing a seat belt is just plain stupid. It requires zero brain power to buckle your seat belt. You would have a better argument if you could say manufacturers were making seat belt mechanisms optional. Comparing that to taking the MCAT makes no sense.

3. I believe the MCAT is a weed out tool only to be quite honest with you.

4. Isn't it true that if you apply to medical school as a certain minority that you can get in with lower GPA and MCAT scores? If so, are those students going to be placed into special enhancement programs within the basic sciences since the MCAT predicts medical school performance and they will be coming in with lower scores?

5. Define "poorly in medical school?"

6. The example of my friend is not irrelevant at all. It goes against every single thing you are saying. That's just one example and there are MANY more.

7. Standardized testing is not limited just to the MCAT. When you take a medical school exam, that exam is getting you ready for STEP 1. How many of those exams will you take during two years of basic sciences? You take the MCAT once...maybe twice. Point being, you will be groomed to become an expert standardized test taker once you sit for STEP1.

8. St. George's University, for one, has a DES (Department of Educational Services) that apparently has a rather robust program and tutoring services related to test-taking skills. I find it very hard to believe that you can come in with a 20 or 490 MCAT and not improve your "test-taking skills."

I will admit I am very biased because everything I have seen has gone AGAINST everything you are saying. I will only agree that test-taking skills are essential to succeed in medical school and beyond and if some student does well on the MCAT and then does well in medical school and every subsequent exam, then that's just fine and great but how do we know it was the MCAT and not just hard work and adaptability? That I don't think you can prove.
 
This discussion is simply the issue of using group statistics to predict individual performance/outcome.

A simple example is serum cholesterol and heart disease.

We know that elevated cholesterol increases the risk of heart disease.

But knowing anyone's cholesterol level doesn't exactly predict that person's chances. Someone with a cholesterol of 100 might have an MI. Another person with a cholesterol of 400 might not.

But even though individual cholesterol levels con't tell you whom will or will not have an MI, saying that they are "useless" is incorrect also.

Back to the MCAT: Telling someone because their MCAT is low they won't succeed in medical school is wrong -- clearly some people with low MCAT scores do well. But on the other hand, I think it is fair to say that those with lower MCAT scores have a higher risk of doing poorly in medical school. How much higher? I don't know. Should that affect whether people try? That's a personal question that depends on your risk tolerance.
 
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Skip, you're in the same position as any immunologist trying to explain to an anti-vaccine fanatic why they're wrong, or any climate scientist talking to EPA director Scott Pruitt.

Doesn't matter how many vaccine safety articles you can pull out, or showing off the Lancet retraction of Wakefield's fabricated paper on MMR and autism, all they'll do is dig in their heels even more.

You're arguing against a belief system, alas, if not a cognitive defect.


No, it doesn't hold water. He's trying to say that there is no correlation which is complete b.s. and beyond ill-informed.

This is the Gambler's fallacy. It is why, when there is a large sum in a lottery jackpot, everyone goes out and plays. Likewise, even when they lose, they still believe that they almost picked the right numbers, that they will be more lucky next time, or that they just need to play again because eventually they will beat the odds.

Likewise, it is the rare individual, in this example, who can overcome a pattern of poor performance leading to horrible test scores. Don't kid yourselves otherwise.

Years ago my aunt was in a car accident where she was thrown from the car, was intubated and received chest compressions on the way to the hospital, spent almost two weeks in the ICU, and had numerous other surgeries in follow-up. Guess what? She wasn't wearing her seat belt. You want to hear something even more shocking? She still doesn't wear her seat belt because some idiot told her that if she'd been wearing one she "surely would have been killed." There is no way to know this on an individual level. What did this ***** who told her that have that the rest of us don't? Magic powers? A crystal ball? Omniscience?

I've produced a few of the litany of studies that clearly demonstrate that MCAT scores predict success. It doesn't mean they guarantee success. It doesn't mean that someone who got a 37 on the MCAT won't still fail out of medical school for a variety of reasons. What it does mean is that the law of averages determines that, if you do poorly on the MCAT that you are likely to do poorly in medical school.

Everything else is irrelevant in this discussion. If you struggle with standardized tests - and you can't fix that fundamental problem - you are going to struggle in medicine which relies highly on them. I don't care what "exceptions to the rule" anyone can produce. There's a reason it's a rule.

-Skip
 
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@aformerstudent You said " I believe the MCAT is a weed-out tool only, to be honest."
Yeah. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. Not to mention, if the Caribbean schools offer all these great ways to help with standardized test taking skills, why can't OP do that in the US?
 
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@aformerstudent You said " I believe the MCAT is a weed-out tool only, to be honest."
Yeah. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. Not to mention, if the Caribbean schools offer all these great ways to help with standardized test taking skills, why can't OP do that in the US?

What are you asking?
 
What are you asking?
That if you think his test taking skills are repairable, shouldn't he just retake the MCAT before considering the Carribean? ( I only skimmed this thread but that seems to be the gist here)
Also, the MCAT is a weed out tool for a reason, it isn't arbitrary. That's exactly it's purpose- to weed out students who are at risk of failing boards/ the step exams.
( Maybe I'm misunderstanding)
 
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That if you think his test taking skills are repairable, shouldn't he just retake the MCAT before considering the Carribean? ( I only skimmed this thread but that seems to be the gist here)
Also, the MCAT is a weed out tool for a reason.

Yeah, that would be smart but you don't go from 494 to 510+ without a miracle. I guess that's why he's on the Caribbean thread.
 
Retake the MCAT. Not once more, twice more. Maybe even thrice more... you get the pt. Then apply to DO programs. The pt is, I know you have a personal situation. But the circumstances have change substantially since your friends went Caribbean. AOA/ACGME merger is creeping up. Us Carib folk need stellar board scores.

Edit: Yes, you'll get into st. George as smooth as a criminal in the Neverland ranch.


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Hi I'm sorry to see you are going through a rough patch. If you are considering Caribbean schools. Maybe a smaller school with smaller class sizes may be helpful for you. Some of the larger schools tend to have higher attrition rates it seems; the reasons vary.
And it may help going to a school that allows options of exams required to attain your degree rather than having to pass the step exam right away after basic sciences. This could help reduce the day to day pressure of maintaining enrollment at the larger schools. In long run, this can allow you some time to practice on improving your language skills which is def duable with hard work and with constant practice of prep questions.
Undergraduate 3.85 (honors) in biological sciences with department recognition. Mcat 494. Also did ER and surgery internships. And I know some will say don't do it! I will have to say that I am going to caribbean or caribbean. No choice right now considering circumstances (complicated trust me). I have friends who did carribean and now very successful doctors in california. They are ER and internal medicine physicians and both went to the top caribbean medical schools. You may ask why my mcat was low. My answer is that my personal situation was cruddy. I can study, I assure you and information stays in my head but english isn't my strongpoint (second language) and ruined me in the mcat.

Hi I'm sorry to see you are going through a rough patch. Its def not an easy decision. If you are considering Caribbean schools. Maybe a smaller (not too new) school with smaller class sizes may be helpful for you. Some of the larger schools tend to have higher attrition rates it seems; the reasons vary. The pace at those schools will not allow you time to improve on your weaknesses. And there are pros and cons obviously of attending a larger more well known school in the Caribbean rather than a smaller one that is well enough known.
At the end of the day its a Caribbean offshore school with many common obstacles regardless of the name of the school. The choice should be a personal one and based on your learning needs.

It may help going to a school that allows options of exams required to attain your MD degree rather than having to pass the step exam right away after basic sciences. Of course, I don't mean you will never have to sit for board exams required for residency. And yes, I get the end goal is residency match.
However, you may be able to have some more time to prep and choice as to which exam you want to prep for. Depending on your personal goals and in what country you prefer your match to occur.
This could help reduce the day to day pressure of maintaining enrollment at some schools or having to meet very stringent deadlines for nbme comprehensive and step exam completion which can result in dismissal.
In the long run, the above option can allow you some time to practice on improving your language skills which is def duable with hard work and with constant practice of prep questions.
Feel free to message me individually if you need some school option suggestions.

Hope that helps, even if a little. Tc
 
Some of the larger schools tend to have higher attrition rates it seems; the reasons vary.
We have no verifiable means of comparing attrition rates at any of these schools. We can only estimate them.
This makes an objective comparison of attrition difficult.
 
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Hi I'm sorry to see you are going through a rough patch. If you are considering Caribbean schools. Maybe a smaller school with smaller class sizes may be helpful for you. Some of the larger schools tend to have higher attrition rates it seems; the reasons vary.
And it may help going to a school that allows options of exams required to attain your degree rather than having to pass the step exam right away after basic sciences. This could help reduce the day to day pressure of maintaining enrollment at the larger schools. In long run, this can allow you some time to practice on improving your language skills which is def duable with hard work and with constant practice of prep questions.


Hi I'm sorry to see you are going through a rough patch. Its def not an easy decision. If you are considering Caribbean schools. Maybe a smaller (not too new) school with smaller class sizes may be helpful for you. Some of the larger schools tend to have higher attrition rates it seems; the reasons vary. The pace at those schools will not allow you time to improve on your weaknesses. And there are pros and cons obviously of attending a larger more well known school in the Caribbean rather than a smaller one that is well enough known.
At the end of the day its a Caribbean offshore school with many common obstacles regardless of the name of the school. The choice should be a personal one and based on your learning needs.

It may help going to a school that allows options of exams required to attain your MD degree rather than having to pass the step exam right away after basic sciences. Of course, I don't mean you will never have to sit for board exams required for residency. And yes, I get the end goal is residency match.
However, you may be able to have some more time to prep and choice as to which exam you want to prep for. Depending on your personal goals and in what country you prefer your match to occur.
This could help reduce the day to day pressure of maintaining enrollment at some schools or having to meet very stringent deadlines for nbme comprehensive and step exam completion which can result in dismissal.
In the long run, the above option can allow you some time to practice on improving your language skills which is def duable with hard work and with constant practice of prep questions.
Feel free to message me individually if you need some school option suggestions.

Hope that helps, even if a little. Tc

Oh get out of dodge with this propaganda spiel. Not all Caribbean programs are created equally and only 3 medical schools in the Caribbean are considered viable in their production of physicians (barely). The fact is, your suggestion is moot if you can't produce the data to back your statements up.


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Hi I'm sorry to see you are going through a rough patch. If you are considering Caribbean schools. Maybe a smaller school with smaller class sizes may be helpful for you. Some of the larger schools tend to have higher attrition rates it seems; the reasons vary.
And it may help going to a school that allows options of exams required to attain your degree rather than having to pass the step exam right away after basic sciences. This could help reduce the day to day pressure of maintaining enrollment at the larger schools. In long run, this can allow you some time to practice on improving your language skills which is def duable with hard work and with constant practice of prep questions.


Hi I'm sorry to see you are going through a rough patch. Its def not an easy decision. If you are considering Caribbean schools. Maybe a smaller (not too new) school with smaller class sizes may be helpful for you. Some of the larger schools tend to have higher attrition rates it seems; the reasons vary. The pace at those schools will not allow you time to improve on your weaknesses. And there are pros and cons obviously of attending a larger more well known school in the Caribbean rather than a smaller one that is well enough known.
At the end of the day its a Caribbean offshore school with many common obstacles regardless of the name of the school. The choice should be a personal one and based on your learning needs.

It may help going to a school that allows options of exams required to attain your MD degree rather than having to pass the step exam right away after basic sciences. Of course, I don't mean you will never have to sit for board exams required for residency. And yes, I get the end goal is residency match.
However, you may be able to have some more time to prep and choice as to which exam you want to prep for. Depending on your personal goals and in what country you prefer your match to occur.
This could help reduce the day to day pressure of maintaining enrollment at some schools or having to meet very stringent deadlines for nbme comprehensive and step exam completion which can result in dismissal.
In the long run, the above option can allow you some time to practice on improving your language skills which is def duable with hard work and with constant practice of prep questions.
Feel free to message me individually if you need some school option suggestions.

Hope that helps, even if a little. Tc

What makes you an expert on Caribbean medical schools lol? Your post sounds like an advertisement.
 
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Oh get out of dodge with this propaganda spiel. Not all Caribbean programs are created equally and only 3 medical schools in the Caribbean are considered viable in their production of physicians (barely). The fact is, your suggestion is moot if you can't produce the data to back your statements up.

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Sounds like a clever well disguised ad for one of the smaller Caribbean schools. My money is on Windsor :thumbup:
If you PM him, he'll probably PM you back with an acceptance letter.
 
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My UGrad school actually has posters for Caribbean medical schools. I walk past them every day when I walk to class but I never looked at them closely, but they are for Ross and SGU and it's a total joke. When I read them closely my jaw literally dropped.
 
My UGrad school actually has posters for Caribbean medical schools. I walk past them every day when I walk to class but I never looked at them closely, but they are for Ross and SGU and it's a total joke. When I read them closely my jaw literally dropped.

What about those posters made you think they were a joke?
 
I'm a student who's gone through a lot of obstacles while studying medicine. After all that I finally succeded with my goals. I was just trying to help. If we lived in a world where just merit got you a spot in medical school than there would be no reason for me to post what I did. I just felt most people were very biased against the caribbean option when I was applying. When they themselves were not studying in the Caribbean. So maybe instead of attacking someone just see that some peopke just have a different experience in life than you.
 
My UGrad school actually has posters for Caribbean medical schools. I walk past them every day when I walk to class but I never looked at them closely, but they are for Ross and SGU and it's a total joke. When I read them closely my jaw literally dropped.

That total joke gave me an MD degree, over 90th percentile step 1/2 board scores , and my #1 residency program. If you can look at those posters as a joke than feel privileged that you are able to go to a US school rather than put others down who don't have the same opportunity. The truth is I will be a doctor grateful for the opportunity, respectful of others regardless of where they train / come from, and willing to help anyone in need.

SDN is filled with pretentious people which is sad given the profession we are aspiring to. Maybe thats why the medical field is filled with so many physicians that don't really see their patients as people but things.
 
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SDN is filled with pretentious people which is sad given the profession we are aspiring to. Maybe that's why the medical field is filled with so many physicians that don't really see their patients as people but things.

Sadly, this is very true.
 
That total joke gave me an MD degree, over 90th percentile step 1/2 board scores , and my #1 residency program. If you can look at those posters as a joke than feel privileged that you are able to go to a US school rather than put others down who don't have the same opportunity. The truth is I will be a doctor grateful for the opportunity, respectful of others regardless of where they train / come from, and willing to help anyone in need.

SDN is filled with pretentious people which is sad given the profession we are aspiring to. Maybe thats why the medical field is filled with so many physicians that don't really see their patients as people but things.
The point isn't that there are some people who are succesful from Caribbean med schools. The point is that the vast majority of people who go to the Carib. are taking a huge risk and are more likely to end up unsuccessful, and it's not something a college campus should advertise to its students.
 
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The point isn't that there are some people who are succesful from Caribbean med schools. The point is that the vast majority of people who go to the Carib. are taking a huge risk and are more likely to end up unsuccessful, and it's not something a college campus should advertise to its students.

Maybe they are advertising to the students who will be successful though.
 
That total joke gave me an MD degree, over 90th percentile step 1/2 board scores , and my #1 residency program. If you can look at those posters as a joke than feel privileged that you are able to go to a US school rather than put others down who don't have the same opportunity. The truth is I will be a doctor grateful for the opportunity, respectful of others regardless of where they train / come from, and willing to help anyone in need.

SDN is filled with pretentious people which is sad given the profession we are aspiring to. Maybe thats why the medical field is filled with so many physicians that don't really see their patients as people but things.

Wow. Spot on.
 
The point isn't that there are some people who are succesful from Caribbean med schools. The point is that the vast majority of people who go to the Carib. are taking a huge risk and are more likely to end up unsuccessful, and it's not something a college campus should advertise to its students.

Forgive me and not trying to sound condescending at all but are you even in med school yet? From where have you derived your knowledge about carib med schools?

Lets get something straight. Not all carib schools are the same so lumping them all together is ridiculous. Many offer a very low realistic chance of matching. SGU and Ross churn out hundreds and hundreds of matches every cycle. All it takes is a look at the match lists for each particular school for the past 10 years. It isn't like only a few superstars make it like SDN leads to believe. The schools don't fail you out or intentionally screw you for clinical spots or whatever rumors permeate here. Quite the opposite, as they offer many ways you can continue even after failing a course. They simply offer an opportunity / 2nd chance to people who didn't make the cut in the USA for whatever reason. Some students tried and failed during undergrad and others had issues that prevented them from performing their best. The student assumes the risk of entering a demanding curriculum and common sense would tell you that the attrition is much higher given #1 - huge class size and #2 "lower quality student." The school takes advantage of the competitiveness of the USA programs and is a for profit institution making big $$$... but to say it isn't a fair opportunity or is doing students a disservice is a bunch of BS that isn't true. The opportunity is there for anyone who wants it bad enough and you don't have to be a genius.

Over 50% of people who start at SGU or Ross end up matching. I don't know where you came up with the "vast majority" ending up unsuccessful because that isn't true. Maybe if you lump all the no name carib schools in there which is misinforming people just as if you lumped stats from harvard and Nova med schools. Sure they don't post the numbers of exactly how many people fail out along the way but my info comes from first hand experience having just graduated and matched. I know how big my class was when we started and how big it is now.... I will also tell you that the majority drop out early during the first year.

That being said, at the SGU informative meetings held at undergrad campuses / etc there are graduates of SGU there providing unbiased information. It isn't like they are saying, "oh come to SGU and you are guaranteed derm residency at hopkins." They aren't saying that you should go carib > USA so you can train on an amazing paradise island. In fact they would say derm is extremely competitive and your chances from SGU are very small. These schools are FOR PROFIT and will advertise as much as they can. They want to show people that there are other opportunities out there. I know when I began at SGU I was very nervous because there wasn't a lot of concrete information available. You come on SDN and it is littered with rumors and misinformation from people with no real knowledge of the matter. I don't think that many students who have the opportunity to train at an AMG school are getting manipulated by these ads and heading to the carib lol....
 
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Dude I didn't even read all of that but you don't have to be a med student to know something is seriously up, nor do you even need to read from SDN:
Million $ Mistake
 
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Forgive me and not trying to sound condescending at all but are you even in med school yet? From where have you derived your knowledge about carib med schools?

Lets get something straight. Not all carib schools are the same so lumping them all together is ridiculous. Many offer a very low realistic chance of matching. SGU and Ross churn out hundreds and hundreds of matches every cycle. All it takes is a look at the match lists for each particular school for the past 10 years. It isn't like only a few superstars make it like SDN leads to believe. The schools don't fail you out or intentionally screw you for clinical spots or whatever rumors permeate here. Quite the opposite, as they offer many ways you can continue even after failing a course. They simply offer an opportunity / 2nd chance to people who didn't make the cut in the USA for whatever reason. Some students tried and failed during undergrad and others had issues that prevented them from performing their best. The student assumes the risk of entering a demanding curriculum and common sense would tell you that the attrition is much higher given #1 - huge class size and #2 "lower quality student." The school takes advantage of the competitiveness of the USA programs and is a for profit institution making big $$$... but to say it isn't a fair opportunity or is doing students a disservice is a bunch of BS that isn't true. The opportunity is there for anyone who wants it bad enough and you don't have to be a genius.

Over 50% of people who start at SGU or Ross end up matching. I don't know where you came up with the "vast majority" ending up unsuccessful because that isn't true. Maybe if you lump all the no name carib schools in there which is misinforming people just as if you lumped stats from harvard and Nova med schools. Sure they don't post the numbers of exactly how many people fail out along the way but my info comes from first hand experience having just graduated and matched. I know how big my class was when we started and how big it is now.... I will also tell you that the majority drop out early during the first year.

That being said, at the SGU informative meetings held at undergrad campuses / etc there are graduates of SGU there providing unbiased information. It isn't like they are saying, "oh come to SGU and you are guaranteed derm residency at hopkins." They aren't saying that you should go carib > USA so you can train on an amazing paradise island. In fact they would say derm is extremely competitive and your chances from SGU are very small. These schools are FOR PROFIT and will advertise as much as they can. They want to show people that there are other opportunities out there. I know when I began at SGU I was very nervous because there wasn't a lot of concrete information available. You come on SDN and it is littered with rumors and misinformation from people with no real knowledge of the matter. I don't think that many students who have the opportunity to train at an AMG school are getting manipulated by these ads and heading to the carib lol....
Don't bother wasting your time explaining to Pre-Meds that haven't even taking a class yet. I believe a majority of the negative comments come from Pre-Med DO Students that for some reason think they rank right up there with US MD students. There unhappy because you will end up with an MD Degree by going to a Carib School and they will end up with a DO degree. This is how they justify going to a DO school. By trashing Carib schools
 
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Dude I didn't even read all of that but you don't have to be a med student to know something is seriously up:
Million $ Mistake

Article floats around more than Kim Kardashian at an NFL convention... I take it with a grain of salt since 1) I don't trust the validity of the author, 2) I don't trust the claims they make, 3) it's off the internet so I already believe <10%.

You really do have to go to these schools to understand how they operate. ROSS gave my friends 5 chances to pass the CBSE! 5!!!!!! You can say all you want how this school wants you to fail, but you'd be illogical saying so. A for profit school needs to churn out grads and keep their attrition low! Think about it, if Ross had as bad a rep as is perceived, they wouldn't have such a large match list/entrant class. I'm a major critic of these schools, but mainly bc of their lack of transparency with SOME data, but not all. Like the first time CBSE pass rate is abysmal. The mean step 1 score (220) when the real number we want is he median... dumb things like that. But when you have classmates matching, year after year... it gets annoying getting flak from non-Carib students who reference pissed off med student blog posts of supposed Carib-grads.


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The only argument I would make, and I have explained this in some detail based on my experience, is that you should not go to a lower-tier Caribbean school as the odds are stacked against you significantly. SGU and Ross are good options for the right candidate with SGU being the best option for the off-shore route.

Nobody has the right to comment on Caribbean schools unless you have experienced them for yourselves. You can't read about them to understand how they work.
 
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Dude I didn't even read all of that but you don't have to be a med student to know something is seriously up, nor do you even need to read from SDN:
Million $ Mistake

I just want to mention that while this may be accurate to some degree, the guy who wrote this was an arrogant SOB and felt he was entitled to an orthopedic residency just because he was gifted intellectually. No matter where you go no matter what you do, you aren't entitled to anything and shouldn't feel as such.

Long story short take this blog and others with a grain of salt, I am not a carib student but honestly i don't buy into blogs, too one sided
 
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I just want to mention that while this may be accurate to some degree, the guy who wrote this was an arrogant SOB and felt he was entitled to an orthopedic residency just because he was gifted intellectually. No matter where you go no matter what you do, you aren't entitled to anything and shouldn't feel as such.

Long story short take this blog and others with a grain of salt, I am not a carib student but honestly i don't buy into blogs, too one sided
True, I more hate that he thinks he's too smart for IM ( and cites that becoming an orthopod is the only reason he went to med school) , but the thought that he may have been lured to the Carib. instead of Tuoro COM b/c of the scholarship is depressing.
Also, his MCAT may have been the biggest issue ( top 33 percent can be as low as a 28),so retaking the MCAT could have gotten him an MD school in the US, and with his Step scores he would have been a shoo-in for orthopod residency. Matching to a competitive residency from a lower tier MD/DO is more about you than the school, but this guy was exemplary in med school. He would have been an orthopod had he gone to Tuoro.
 
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Lots of noise and derailment on this thread... let me sum-up... it's very straightforward:

1) If you struggle with standardized tests, you are going to be in for a miserable life in medicine
2) Exceptions prove the rule; don't plan on being the exception - you are most likely going to do terrible if you can't mature, figure out why you've failed to this point, can't get organized, etc.
3) If you have a serious character flaw, you are going to struggle
4) You are not special; the world is not your oyster; you are not a snowflake - you will have to work and prove yourself in perpetuity if you choose this as a career; the finish line is not getting an acceptance - it's retiring at the end of a 35-year medical career with your sanity and bank account intact

Bon chance, mes amis.

-Skip
 
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Lots of noise and derailment on this thread... let me sum-up... it's very straightforward:

1) If you struggle with standardized tests, you are going to be in for a miserable life in medicine
2) Exceptions prove the rule; don't plan on being the exception - you are most likely going to do terrible if you can't mature, figure out why you've failed to this point, can't get organized, etc.
3) If you have a serious character flaw, you are going to struggle
4) You are not special; the world is not your oyster; you are not a snowflake - you will have to work and prove yourself in perpetuity if you choose this as a career; the finish line is not getting an acceptance - it's retiring at the end of a 35-year medical career with your sanity and bank account intact

Bon chance, mes amis.

-Skip

Classical Skip post haha!


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Lots of noise and derailment on this thread... let me sum-up... it's very straightforward:

1) If you struggle with standardized tests, you are going to be in for a miserable life in medicine
2) Exceptions prove the rule; don't plan on being the exception - you are most likely going to do terrible if you can't mature, figure out why you've failed to this point, can't get organized, etc.
3) If you have a serious character flaw, you are going to struggle
4) You are not special; the world is not your oyster; you are not a snowflake - you will have to work and prove yourself in perpetuity if you choose this as a career; the finish line is not getting an acceptance - it's retiring at the end of a 35-year medical career with your sanity and bank account intact

Bon chance, mes amis.

-Skip


Loving skip's posts lol btw skip i can't find it anywhere on this forum but what made you decide to go to Ross, im assuming the testing thing wasn't an issue given your points above
 
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That total joke gave me an MD degree, over 90th percentile step 1/2 board scores , and my #1 residency program. If you can look at those posters as a joke than feel privileged that you are able to go to a US school rather than put others down who don't have the same opportunity. The truth is I will be a doctor grateful for the opportunity, respectful of others regardless of where they train / come from, and willing to help anyone in need.

SDN is filled with pretentious people which is sad given the profession we are aspiring to. Maybe thats why the medical field is filled with so many physicians that don't really see their patients as people but things.

What residency? IM?
 
Loving skip's posts lol btw skip i can't find it anywhere on this forum but what made you decide to go to Ross, im assuming the testing thing wasn't an issue given your points above

I've never had a significant problem with standardized tests, and have passed all of them on the first attempt.

Mine was multifactorial: 1) over the age of 30 and unwilling to wait any longer, 2) life intersection where the timing matched-up coupled with an unfulfilling career and dead-end career (I was only going to go so far without a graduate technical and/or business degree), and 3) Ross accepted me without making me re-take the MCAT.

-Skip
 
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Oh I can give you his name. He is practicing in Pennsylvania; but that would bring up an issue of confidentiality.

What I've noticed here is that when someone brings up a strong point and the other person can't argue back, the someone automatically becomes a troll. Go figure.

This is verified. I don't work in anecdotes. You just have to believe me that he went to SGU from 2004-2005 because you can't graduate Drexel in three years right?

Oh what do you know...Chief Resident lol. My boy doesn't disappoint.

You said you don't work in anecdotes but YOU bringing up 1 person is an anecdote. I don't think you understand statistics very well. No one says you can't be successful in med school with a low MCAT, there are always individuals who are outliers, but what everyone is trying to get you to understand is that if you take a huge data set of thousands of students and look at their MCAT and STEP scores, a high MCAT is predictive of success based on looking at thousands of students profiles. This is important in predicting future success because you don't know how any one student will perform. So it is a red flag when a student has a low MCAT score, thus this is why it is used in admissions.

Everyone is using peer reviewed data to argue their point besides you, who is bringing up individual stories, no one is saying that a single individual can't do well on step w a low MCAT, but it is less likely based on years of data. It's like saying I know one person who went to this no name carribean school and became a neurosurgeon in the U.S. after, so you can do it too! That would be poor advice, and go against what the data suggests will happen.

So yes when someone can't break 50th percentile on the MCAT, after numerous retakes, it's probably not going to go well in med school.
 
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