Catch-22

[Roce33]

long time visitor, first time poster. I will appreciate some good advice on the situation I find myself in.
I am an oldie IMG (2006), worked in UK for 4 years as Surgery Trainee, and relocated to the US in early 2015. I rushed my exams to complete them all in 6 months to avoid adding more to the stockpile of YOG. Got 22x/22x/pass/23x without any failure. Pretty average, but with Green Card and UK experience I was hoping to match in IM. Got 2 IV but didn't match in 2016. I frantically tried to build on my CV, and spent 6 months in 2 private clinics for hands-on USCE (Surg, FM) in addition to a hospital-based IM Observorship. Meanwhile, a paper I had co-authored in UK published. I applied broadly to 125 IM + 40 FM programs that did not set forth strict YOG cut-off. I received 5 IVs during 2017 cycle (4 IM, including 1 prematch (not offered) + 1 FM= 4 on ROL), but didn't match once again. No luck with Surg Prelim in SOAP either.
Now, I am recovering from the devastation and trying to grasp what went wrong and how to turn around the boat. I am good at IVs, so that was not a major concern.
With regard to fill in the CV gap I am now badly divided between doing externships at private clinics Vs observorships at hospitals. A resident friend of mine thinks that private clinic externships are a waste of my time as their LoRs are not looked at favorably by programs, no matter how strong. Some programs require or prefer hands-on USCE which is not offered by hospitals. Do programs that do not even consider observorship as USCE look favorably at the LoRs arising from it as compared to hands-on externship?

Secondly, I am trying to get some research experience which is a weak area on my CV. I have read that most community programs do not consider research that important. SO, given the small time window before Sept. what is the best use of this time to strengthen my application?
Thank you for reading my post. I look forward to some good and helpful advice.

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[Dog_luver]

long time visitor, first time poster. I will appreciate some good advice on the situation I find myself in.
I am an oldie Indian IMG (2006), worked in UK for 4 years in Surgery and relocated to the US in Jan 2015. I rushed exams to do them all in 6 months to avoid adding more to the stockpile of YOG. Got 227/229/pass/231 without any failure. Pretty average but with Green Card and UK experience, I was hoping to match in IM in 2016. Got 2 IV but didn't match, last year. I frantically tried to build on my CV and did 2 private clinic hands-on USCE (Surg, FM) and a hospital-based IM Observorship. Meanwhile, a paper I had co-authored in UK published so, that was another good addition. I applied broadly to 125 IM + 40 FM programs who did not set forth strict YOG cut-ff and got 5 IV during 2017 cycle (4 IM including 1 prematch + 1 FM= 4 on ROL) but didn't match, again. No luck with Surg Prelim in SOAP either.
Now, I am recovering from the devastation and trying to grasp what went wrong and how to turn around the boat. I am good at IVs, so that was a concern. People with lower scores and GC matched to programs where I didn't get an IV.
I am badly divided between doing externships at private clinics Vs observorships at hospitals. A resident friend of mine thinks that private clinic externships were a waste of time as their LoRs are not looked at favorably by programs, no matter how strong and that I technically applied with one hospital (observership) LoR (though, I used one waived LoR from UK but that is again presumably, not looked at favorably). He thinks that was the reason not to match. Would you concur? Some programs require or prefer hands-on USCE which is not offered by hospitals so, there is no alternative. Does it mean anything to record these hands-on USCEs on ERAS CV and not use their LoRs? In that case, I will be left with the option of observorships but will programs that do not consider observorship as USCE look favorably at the LoRs arising from observorships?
Secondly, I am trying to get some research experience which is a weak area on my CV. I have read that most community programs, which I will apply to, do not consider research that important. SO, given the small time window before Sept. what should I, preferably, do to strengthen my application.
All this conundrum is driving me crazy and utterly confused while the clock is ticking.
Thank you for reading my post. I look forward to some good and helpful advice

I think it would be difficult for you to match with a YOG that's >10yrs, and particularly given that large # of new MD/DO grads, it would be difficult to match. I don't think research is a big issue, most med students graduating don't have a ton of research except in a small subset of fields, and doing more observerships doesn't make sense in my opinion. I think it makes sense for you to practice in the UK. I think it is unlikely you'd be able to find a position here. Why did you not take the 1 prematch you had? That probably was your opportunity.

 

[Roce33]

Going back to UK is definitely a final option but that's not what I need to turn to sdn for.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It's a tough situation. The major issue is your YOG, which there's nothing you can do to change. The best thing would be US clinical experience, esp if you can get any experience actually at a program. But as you say, that can be very difficult or impossible. You mentioned one of your interviews was a "prematch", and I'm hoping that means "a program that offers prematches but didn't offer one to me" rather than "they offered me a prematch and I decided to decline and go for the match to get a better spot", although if that's the issue you could contact them now, tell them what a big mistake you made, and hope they will consider you for next year.

Research may or may not help -- you're going to be looking at community programs, and they may not care all that much.

The GC might turn out to be very helpful. Given "El Trumpastic", whether those that need visas will be able to get them or not is unclear. You should be on the look out for spots that might open if someone can't get a visa.

 

[Roce33]

It's a tough situation. The major issue is your YOG, which there's nothing you can do to change. The best thing would be US clinical experience, esp if you can get any experience actually at a program. But as you say, that can be very difficult or impossible. You mentioned one of your interviews was a "prematch", and I'm hoping that means "a program that offers prematches but didn't offer one to me" rather than "they offered me a prematch and I decided to decline and go for the match to get a better spot", although if that's the issue you could contact them now, tell them what a big mistake you made, and hope they will consider you for next year.

Research may or may not help -- you're going to be looking at community programs, and they may not care all that much.

The GC might turn out to be very helpful. Given "El Trumpastic", whether those that need visas will be able to get them or not is unclear. You should be on the look out for spots that might open if someone can't get a visa.

Thank you so much for the useful leads. The prematch was not offered, sorry for missing to elaborate on that. It was an undesirable location, so I didn't go to IV as early in the season as I should have.

 

[hallowmann]

Thank you so much for the useful leads. I have 'Trump aftermath' thing in my mind, too. The prematch was not offered, sorry for missing to elaborate on that. It was an undesirable location, so I didn't go to IV as early in the season as I should have, looking back from hindsight now.
One option, which I am not sure is considered USCE or not, is working as a Medical Assistant in a hospital. I am financially sound enough not to do it for money as some IMGs tend to but if it can be sold to programs as hands-on USCE, I will do it for that. Any views on that?

If you can get any job where you are interacting regularly with faculty of a residency program, then that would be the best situation. The people I know with success with a YOG >10 yrs essentially worked alongside well-respected people that became their big advocates in the program. One I know did research with a chair of the department for over a year before matching at the program.

 

[Roce33]

Thank you for sharing that info. I have been constantly trying, calling and emailing but nothing to fruition. I am trying to find some unpaid research mentor and then, while I am on-site ask some faculty for shadowing. To rant and rave, I don't get why programs discriminate based on YOG when in fact he/she has been actively in practice?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I don't get why programs discriminate against someone based on YOG when in fact he/she has been actively in practice.

Probably for several reasons:

1. Although you would think that residents with prior experience would be better than novices, it can be a big problem. I'd rather have someone that knows nothing whom I need to teach, rather than someone who has learned something "wrong" and now I need to fix that.
2. Residents with prior experience can overestimate their ability to perform independently and not ask for help when needed.
3. They can also have a bad attitude as a new intern. Sure, everyone says that they'd be "happy" to start back on the bottom of the ladder, but when reality hits sometimes it doesn't go well.
4. It can be very uncomfortable for a team to have an intern who has more experience than their supervising resident.
5. Programs get ridic numbers of applications. It's impossible to look at all of the applications in detail. Something needs to be used to focus on a reasonable volume of applications. USMLE and YOG are often chosen because they are numeric, universal, and easy to use.

 

[Roce33]

Points taken.

 

[Roce33]

Regarding emailing programs about unexpected vacancies (due to any visa rejections) what would be the best timeline for such communications?

 

[Radignator]

If I email programs about unexpected vacancies (due to any visa rejections) what would be the best timeline for such communications?

You can email them now and ask to let you know if anything opens up. Follow up again in a month.

 

[Roce33]

You can email them now and ask to let you know if anything opens up. Follow up again in a month.

Thank you.
I have noted that surgery Prelim positions pop up from here and there, time to time. I apply every time in the hope that my past, 5 years of surgical training may help to at least be considered for a Prelim position but nothing happens. I have mentioned in my personal statement that my ultimate goal is pediatric surgery. Can that be a turn off to PDs or they don't care about your future plans when offering a Prelim? If I say up front that I want to do a Prelim year and then switch to IM or FM, would it be more helpful for being more realistic or should I rather just leave it as it is to appear more committed?

 

[Code Blah]

Thank you.
I have noted that surgery Prelim positions pop up from here and there, time to time. I apply every time in the hope that my past, 5 years of surgical training may help to at least be considered for a Prelim position but nothing happens. I have mentioned in my personal statement that my ultimate goal is pediatric surgery. Can that be a turn off to PDs or they don't care about your future plans when offering a Prelim? If I say up front that I want to do a Prelim year and then switch to IM or FM, would it be more helpful for being more realistic or should I rather just leave it as it is to appear more committed?

Usually program directors don't care about the ultimate goals of who fills in their preliminary spots, as long as it's filled with someone competent. You should SOAP into the area you want to enter, just because that way you can use the year as a "continuous interview," and maybe the PD will offer you a spot next year into their categorical program. Even if that doesn't happen, if you bust your ass, you'll still get a great LOR, which will help you get a spot elsewhere. This wouldn't work if you do prelim in IM or FM, as their PD's LOR wouldn't help you get surgery interviews (at least not as much as a surgery PD's letter).

 

[Roce33]

thank you for explaining it well.

 

[Roce33]

Updates:
1. Interviewed at a top (Ivy League) university med center for a Research Assistant vacancy for their Precision Medicine Initiative project. No prospects of any publication; patient enrollment role.
2. A Family practitioner has invited me to help run one of his clinics as an extern. Direct patient care role, solid USCE and LoR promised.
3. A Uni based FM program PD, whom I had interviewed with, has been kind enough to reply to my feedback request. She has said that I appeared too specialized for FM. On the subject of what next she has advised that research won't help with FM programs.

Based on the above, what would be the most useful path to go to maximize my IM (preferred) and FM chances. Will research help better with low tier University based IM programs more than USCE would?

 

[MissNomer]

Updates:
1. Interviewed at a top (Ivy League) university med center for a Research Assistant vacancy for their Precision Medicine Initiative project. No prospects of any publication; patient enrollment role.
2. A Family practitioner has invited me to help run one of his clinics as an extern. Direct patient care role, solid USCE and LoR promised.
3. A Uni based FM program PD, whom I had interviewed with, has been kind enough to reply to my feedback request. She has said that I appeared too specialized for FM. On the subject of what next she has advised that research won't help with FM programs.

Based on the above, what would be the most useful path to go to maximize my IM (preferred) and FM chances. Will research help better with low tier University based IM programs more than USCE would?

I think the FM program PD hit it right on the nail when she said that you are too specialized for FM.
Based on that you should go for the second option since you get solid USCE and LoR from FM even if it is not an ideal place for a USCE.
Since you don't really have any other viable option you should go for it.
There is nothing to lose.

 

[Roce33]

I think the FM program PD hit it right on the nail when she said that you are too specialized for FM.
Based on that you should go for the second option since you get solid USCE and LoR from FM even if it is not an ideal place for a USCE.
Since you don't really have any other viable option you should go for it.
There is nothing to lose.

Do you think option 1 if offered is too bad? I know doing research wont matter to FM programs, but I am more for IM and I received more IM IVs than FM anyways.

 

[bhama]

A clarification from aProDirector on spot openings during the year due to visa. Where do we find such openings in IM?
Per above advise research may or may not work for Roce 33. I would like to present my situation. I am a 2015 grad with low step 1 score and a failed attempt on CK. Which is better- Research or more USCE ? Thanks for all your suggestions on this forum.

 

[rokshana]

Do you think option 1 if offered is too bad? I know doing research wont matter to FM programs but I am more for IM and I have received more IM IVs then FM, anyways.

what is that going to get you? sounds like you are just a scut monkey for them...if you had a chance to have your name on a paper that may have put a different spin, but..

#2 seems to give you a better shot at getting a residency since it will show FM programs you are interested in FM.

the difference between 4 and 1 is not that much of a difference and what the FM PD said may have kept you form getting more interviews in FM...your chances of getting into FM >>>>IM.

 

[Roce33]

what is that going to get you? sounds like you are just a scut monkey for them...if you had a chance to have your name on a paper that may have put a different spin, but..

#2 seems to give you a better shot at getting a residency since it will show FM programs you are interested in FM.

the difference between 4 and 1 is not that much of a difference and what the FM PD said may have kept you form getting more interviews in FM...your chances of getting into FM >>>>IM.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I was being carried away by the potential impact of big name on the CV.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

A clarification from aProDirector on spot openings during the year due to visa. Where do we find such openings in IM?
Per above advise research may or may not work for Roce 33. I would like to present my situation. I am a 2015 grad with low step 1 score and a failed attempt on CK. Which is better- Research or more USCE ? Thanks for all your suggestions on this forum.

Per your other posts here on SDN, you are a non-carib IMG who has passed Step 1 and CS, but has failed CK twice and are now prepping for your third try.

Given that background, the most important thing for you to do is pass CK. All else should take a back seat. And you want as good a score as possible. So I wouldn't worry about slots that open mid year, or even in July, until you've sorted that out. Coming from a (potentially) unknown school, poor step scores, and multiple CK fails are going to make getting a spot very difficult for you. After passing CK and getting your ECFMG cert, you then should enter the match for a spot. You'll need to apply to FM, as IM is going to be difficult with those stats. If you have a chance to get FM experience between now and then, that would be helpful. Research is not going to help -- research tends to help competitive candidates looking for a university based program, or those candidates with no/limited US exposure.

 

[bhama]

Per your other posts here on SDN, you are a non-carib IMG who has passed Step 1 and CS, but has failed CK twice and are now prepping for your third try.

Given that background, the most important thing for you to do is pass CK. All else should take a back seat. And you want as good a score as possible. So I wouldn't worry about slots that open mid year, or even in July, until you've sorted that out. Coming from a (potentially) unknown school, poor step scores, and multiple CK fails are going to make getting a spot very difficult for you. After passing CK and getting your ECFMG cert, you then should enter the match for a spot. You'll need to apply to FM, as IM is going to be difficult with those stats. If you have a chance to get FM experience between now and then, that would be helpful. Research is not going to help -- research tends to help competitive candidates looking for a university based program, or those candidates with no/limited US exposure.

Thanks for your reply. I know I am a good student, no failures during med school, but unfortunately my step score history so far has not proved it. Will concentrate on my CK. If I am from a "potentially" known USA med school, then your answer be the same with regards to FM?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Thanks for your reply. I know I am a good student, no failures during med school, but unfortunately my step score history so far has not proved it. Will concentrate on my CK. If I am from a "potentially" known USA med school, then your answer be the same with regards to FM?

If you're from a US MD school (i.e. an LCME accredited MD school), then yes you're in a much better situation. Regardless, your #1 priority is passing CK on your next take. If by "potentially known USA medical school" you mean an international school that's "potentially" known in the US, that's less good. If you're talking about one of the PR schools, then that's in the middle -- LCME accredited, but usually felt to be lower end.

 

[Roce33]

Other than IM & FM, what would be the other reasonable choice for me especially between Neurology & Pediatrics?
Thank you.

 

[mvenus929]

I would appreciate some comments from senior colleagues please.
Other than IM & FM, what would be the other reasonable choice for me, especially between Neurology & Pediatrics?
Thank you.

I'm not sure if you're implying that the people who have responded to you are not "senior colleagues" or if you're just posing a new question.

I wouldn't want you in peds--you've shown absolutely no interest in taking care of children, and my program has been burned by people leaving to pursue another specialty. You may find some peds programs willing to take a chance on you, but most people who enter peds have at least something that indicates that they at least like children. Remember, children are not just little adults, and it takes a certain kind of person to manage sick children.

I have no idea the competitiveness of Neuro, but I imagine if you can't get into IM or FM, you're not going to get into Neuro. Psych may be an option.

 

[Roce33]

Thank you.
I worked a year on the Pediatric Urology service, beside many years of general surgery which involved good many Peads cases. I was wondering if that might convince PDs as an interest to work with children?

 

[Roce33]

Need some more inputs, please. Having mixed feelings these days visa-vis moving back to UK for July intake, get experience on the Medicine service (previously spent 4 years on the Surgery) and reapply in Sept when ERAS season starts OR do hands-on FM Externship here? If externship (already did 7 months last year) is not going to be a game changer, I would rather go back and start a fresh in UK which will better serve my interests in the long run if Match did not materialize again comes March 2018. By all means, I plan to move to UK in Dec/Jan anyways. What would you do if you were in my shoes? (personal addendum: my wife is American, expecting our first baby in Sept but she is open to move anywhere with me but ideally we prefer to live here)

 

[gutonc]

I'll be honest. It's not gonna happen.

You've been through the Match twice now with no love/luck. You're going to be 12 years out of school next cycle. There's literally nothing you can do at this point to buff your CV for the Match.

Cut your losses and move back to the UK. But not in preparation for another run at ERAS...for a career in medicine in the UK.

 

[Roce33]

I appreciate your advice. This is such a harsh Match reality. Sometimes it feels like playing lottery. 2 of my friends (1 from my own class, and another from my junior class) matched last year in IM. Both had similar scores, and 1 of them needed visa, too. One had IM and the other had EM background.

 

[Roce33]

Hello!
I have secured an IV for an off-cycle IM position, and need help better answering 2 questions, which keep bugging me at every IV I have been to. So,
Q#1: Why do I want to do IM after so many years in Surgery programs?
Q#2: How would I feel/manage being an intern after working almost at attending level previously.
My usual answers go like:
I have exhausted surgery options,
I have good working knowledge of GI & GU Medicine, trained in GI endoscopy, and I want to specialize in GI.
To 2nd question, I say that I look at it positively. I would know what's expected of me as an intern, and I would ensure high quality patient care. I am a flexible person and can be trained as expected.
Your advice is appreciated.

 

[mcl]

Hello!
I have secured an IV for an off-cycle IM position, and need help better answering 2 questions, which keep bugging me at every IV I have been to. So, what's the best response when asked why do I want to do IM after so many years in Surgery programs? #2: How would I feel/manage being an intern after working almost at attending level previously. My usual answers go like: I have exhausted surgery options, I have good working knowledge of GI & GU Medicine, trained in GI endoscopy, and I want to specialize in GI. To 2nd question, I go like I look at it positively as I would know what's expected of me as an intern, and I would ensure high quality patient care. I am a flexible person and can be trained as expected.
Your advice is appreciated.

Your first answer may be honest, but it won't help you get a job offer. No program wants to be the back-up plan after things didn't work out with your real interest. Your job in the IM interview is to convince them that your prior interest in Surgery was a mere dalliance and IM is the specialty you really want to pursue. Sell them on how much you have grown to appreciate IM and how your background in Surgery that will make you a better IM physician. They want to see that you have energy and enthusiasm for all aspects of IM, not just one subspecialty.

 

[Roce33]

Your first answer may be honest, but it won't help you get a job offer. No program wants to be the back-up plan after things didn't work out with your real interest. Your job in the IM interview is to convince them that your prior interest in Surgery was a mere dalliance and IM is the specialty you really want to pursue. Sell them on how much you have grown to appreciate IM and how your background in Surgery that will make you a better IM physician. They want to see that you have energy and enthusiasm for all aspects of IM, not just one subspecialty.

That's a very helpful insight. Thank you. I had actually started my career as a primary care doc, so I think I will sell that to support my interest. What's your take on the 2nd question?

 

[mcl]

That's a very helpful insight. Thank you. I had actually started my career as a primary care doc, so I think I will sell that to support my interest. What's your take on the 2nd question?

I don't really have any insight about the second question. My program has had a few nontraditional-age applicants who had to answer a similar question about working as a junior resident with senior residents who are younger than they are. I gather from post-interview conversations among the interview team that the most successful answers include a high degree of humility--an acknowledgement of their place in the hierarchy, a recognition that they had a great deal to learn from others in this field, and a strong commitment to working as part of the health care team.

 

[Roce33]

I don't really have any insight about the second question. My program has had a few nontraditional-age applicants who had to answer a similar question about working as a junior resident with senior residents who are younger than they are. I gather from post-interview conversations among the interview team that the most successful answers include a high degree of humility--an acknowledgement of their place in the hierarchy, a recognition that they had a great deal to learn from others in this field, and a strong commitment to working as part of the health care team.

Sounds awesome. I really appreciate you shared it with me.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Q1: it took me a long time to realize that surgery wasn't for me. I alway liked the complex floor and icu management of sick surgical patients more than operating but it took me a long time to understand that about myself. I wish I'd figured it out sooner but here we are.

Do not mention GI. Convince them you want to be an internist.

Q2: it's simple. If you take me, I am an intern. There may be some times in academics that I can help convey a surgical perspective but that doesn't change the fact that I'm starting at the place I'm supposed to start. until I've finished IM training, I'm an IM trainee.

 

[Roce33]

Q1: it took me a long time to realize that surgery wasn't for me. I alway liked the complex floor and icu management of sick surgical patients more than operating but it took me a long time to understand that about myself. I wish I'd figured it out sooner but here we are.

Do not mention GI. Convince them you want to be an internist.

Q2: it's simple. If you take me, I am an intern. There may be some times in academics that I can help convey a surgical perspective but that doesn't change the fact that I'm starting at the place I'm supposed to start. until I've finished IM training, I'm an IM trainee.

Thank you so much for yet another perspective. Makes me feel comfortable around these thorny Qs.

 

[Roce33]

Hello everybody! Need a quick advice. Would it be okay to stir PD's compassion (if any) during interview with regards to YOG or they are always immune to such appeals/consideration on compassionate grounds? If it's ok to say, what would be the best way of conveying it across the table?
Thank you for your suggestion.

 

[clibby]

Hello everybody! Need a quick advice. Would it be okay to stir PD's compassion (if any) during interview with regards to YOG or they are always immune to such appeals/consideration on compassionate grounds? If it's ok to say, what would be the best way of conveying it across the table?
Thank you for your suggestion.

Others probably have better insight, but once you have the interview I would keep in mind that you are not interviewing for a position as the PD's friend. You are interviewing for a job. The PD wants the most qualified person for the job who will be enthusiastic about their work and get along well with the rest of the team. They want someone who is accountable for their actions, easy to teach, and someone will not become a problem resident. They do not give out positions as charity cases and they don't want someone who will always be making up excuses.

 

[Roce33]

I agree to what you said. I didn't mean to say that job can be offered on compassionate grounds. What I am asking is that after having a discussion about what would I bring to the program, and given my otherwise strong application if I add and explain how that yog issue filters me out during regular season would it bite me or can potentially stir some real compassion? They have told me that my application is strong so it's not a matter of excuse. My idea is, after all, pd is a decent human being and might well understand and give me a chance.

 

[clibby]

I agree to what you said. I didn't mean to say that job can be offered on compassionate grounds. What I am asking is that after having a discussion about what would I bring to the program, and given my otherwise strong application if I add and explain how that yog issue filters me out during regular season would it bite me or can potentially stir some real compassion? They have told me that my application is strong so it's not a matter of excuse. My idea is, after all, pd is a decent human being and might well understand and give me a chance.

My point was that they obviously don't care about the YOG issue which is why you got the interview. While I know the YOG issue does hurt you, I also know people with similar years from graduation (4, 8, 8, 9) who matched so the YOG isn't the only reason you didn't match. I know it doesn't help, but something else isn't working. At this point in the application process for the program, it is all the other things that you bring to the program that matter. I can't see a benefit to bringing up the YOG issue unless they ask.

 

[Roce33]

My point was that they obviously don't care about the YOG issue which is why you got the interview. While I know the YOG issue does hurt you, I also know people with similar years from graduation (4, 8, 8, 9) who matched so the YOG isn't the only reason you didn't match. I know it doesn't help, but something else isn't working. At this point in the application process for the program, it is all the other things that you bring to the program that matter. I can't see a benefit to bringing up the YOG issue unless they ask.

Thank you. I see what you mean. I rather just be confident about my positive attributes and stay away from bringing yog myself.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Agreed. Once you're invited for an interview, your YOG doesn't really matter any more. The "filters" you're talking about are used to decide whom to invite/review. I wouldn't bring it up at all, although what you've done since graduating is certain to come up, so you'll be talking about it indirectly.

 

[Roce33]

Agreed. Once you're invited for an interview, your YOG doesn't really matter any more. The "filters" you're talking about are used to decide whom to invite/review. I wouldn't bring it up at all, although what you've done since graduating is certain to come up, so you'll be talking about it indirectly.

Thank you for reassurance. I don't have any big gaps, having been in surgery residency programs in 2 countries. So, lot of clinical experience to talk about. Fingers crossed.

 

[Roce33]

Big relief!!! Finally, I am very excited to announce that I have gotten a Prelim Internal Medicine position. I want to thank you all for your valuable pieces of advice, and encouragement. I will work hard to get one of their Cat. spot next year.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Big relief!!! Finally, I am very excited to announce that I have gotten a Prelim Internal Medicine position. I want to thank you all for your valuable pieces of advice, and encouragement. I will work hard to get one of their Cat. spot next year.

Gl

 

[Roce33]

Hi fellow SDN. Is it advisable to ask the program about my rotation schedule at this point or stay quiet until orientation begins? Knowing now will give me some time to prepare for the first rotation, but don't want to come across as annoying.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Hi fellow SDN. Is it advisable to ask the program about my rotation schedule at this point or stay quiet until orientation begins? Knowing now will give me some time to prepare for the first rotation, but don't want to come across as annoying.

You can ask, but very often you won't get your rotation schedule until pretty late in the game. I didn't get any notification about mine until I was literally driving my truck down to my residency location for the move about 10 days from the start.

Relax, you'll get your rotation schedule soon enough. The best thing you can do to prepare for your first rotation is be eager and willing to help and learn in any capacity. If you've done residencies elsewhere then you will be more prepared than most, I'd suspect.

 

[Roce33]

Thank you for your response. I appreciate it.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Also possible that they might give you your schedule at orientation so they can deal with the inevitable "conflict" questions that arise when they come out in a more controlled setting... still, congratulations on getting a spot!