Cardiology Job market

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Whatsyourname

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Curious to how the cardiology job market is this year (2013). Seems that folks are screaming "shortage" but at the same time little jobs are available. Please give insight to the different fields of cardio (EP, interven, non-invasive, etc).


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Situation is always bad in highly desirable locations.
 
If you want to live in a major city or other attractive area, jobs will be scarce and your pay will be comparatively meager. I got a ~$200K offer in Seattle (which I declined), and I know a guy who got a ~$200K offer in southern California (which he literally laughed at). Otherwise: non-invasive is pretty strong, and people I know are still getting good offers (350-450K) in mid-sized cities. The interventional market is okay, but the pay differential isn't much (or is non-existent) and just doing coronaries isn't enough in most markets (i.e. add peripherals, structural, or something else to your skill set to make you an attractive candidate). EP is completely saturated and dismal.
 
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Awesome reply, do you see the market staying at it's current pace for the next few years or slowing down? You seem to have hinted that general cardiology is the highest in demand
 
If you want to live in a major city or other attractive area, jobs will be scarce and your pay will be comparatively meager. I got a ~$200K offer in Seattle (which I declined), and I know a guy who got a ~$200K offer in southern California (which he literally laughed at). Otherwise: non-invasive is pretty strong, and people I know are still getting good offers (350-450K) in mid-sized cities. The interventional market is okay, but the pay differential isn't much (or is non-existent) and just doing coronaries isn't enough in most markets (i.e. add peripherals, structural, or something else to your skill set to make you an attractive candidate). EP is completely saturated and dismal.

Would adding other interventional skills add to your pay, or simply make you more attractive in larger competitive markets?

As far as EP, do you see the market bouncing back if, say, RFAs were made into the first line treatment for afib?
 
the market is still in need for cardiologist. the highest offer I heard was 500K in alaska, and the lowest was 200K in Nj. in between there are all shades of offers.. I am not worried aout finding a job once I get in.. ;)
 
the market is still in need for cardiologist. the highest offer I heard was 500K in alaska, and the lowest was 200K in Nj. in between there are all shades of offers.. I am not worried aout finding a job once I get in.. ;)

Not to be a debbie downer, but if the highest offer you heard was 500k and it was in Alaska, then the market is worse than I thought. Those numbers are barely better than hospitalist job offers to be quite honest. I've seen hospitalist offers in sh*tty locations that were 350k for 7 on 7 off with 8 hour shifts.
 
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Superman,
I agree with Bronx43.

Unfortunately, Cardiology is in free fall.
If you peruse through practice/ job sites the ratio of positions is 480/90/70 for GI, CARDS & HEMONC
Besides the no of graduating fellows is around 400 in GI & Hem Once
For Cards this 800...
These figures will keep getting worse and most applicants know this, making GI MOST competitive.
What I don't understand is why people still want to do HemOnc even after a saturated market.
Cardiology is becoming less and less competitive as expected.
 
Superman,
I agree with Bronx43.

Unfortunately, Cardiology is in free fall.
If you peruse through practice/ job sites the ratio of positions is 480/90/70 for GI, CARDS & HEMONC
Besides the no of graduating fellows is around 400 in GI & Hem Once
For Cards this 800...
These figures will keep getting worse and most applicants know this, making GI MOST competitive.
What I don't understand is why people still want to do HemOnc even after a saturated market.
Cardiology is becoming less and less competitive as expected.

Very unfortunate.. but it appears the situation in GI is perhaps better.
But I can not see myself doing a specialty which is based completely on one procedure AKA colonoscopy. The next USPTF comes up with a new recommendation for colon screening, the tables could turn. Everyone wants to open up an outpatient colonscopy and EGD center- no wonder the demand is so high..
I dont think the market for advanced endoscopists is as good.
EP probably has the worst market of any specialty in the country.
 
Very unfortunate.. but it appears the situation in GI is perhaps better.
But I can not see myself doing a specialty which is based completely on one procedure AKA colonoscopy. The next USPTF comes up with a new recommendation for colon screening, the tables could turn. Everyone wants to open up an outpatient colonscopy and EGD center- no wonder the demand is so high..
I dont think the market for advanced endoscopists is as good.
EP probably has the worst market of any specialty in the country.
I agree, it is unfortunate.....however, I don't think USPSTF is gonna come up with anything different...
COURAGE trial didn't kill interventional cardiology, Obama & overproduction of cards fellow did.
GI will continue to rock.... A big demand in market translates to good reimbursements.
However, I still feel cardiology is the most intellectual field and I don't wanna stick things up b***s
..so i would rather do a 350k Hospitalist rather than stress on a saturated market....a few years down the lane if I get bored, I will use the phd to get a grant and a fellowship....

But GI market will stay great for many years
 
this year the jobs seems to be as follows
rural us - 500K (same for gen cards, IV, EP)
city in boring place 250-350
deirable big metro area 200-250
most jobs gen cards, very few ep and fewer adv imaging
steady increase in academic CHF jobs
still some big $$$ stent jobs (500K+) but seems like places like rural TX etc.
Also seeing hospitalist for 240 and gen IM earning potential 350K in rural US
 
If you do an interventional fellowship that goes way beyond just plain coronaries won't that increase your salary? Everyone on SDN cries about the cardiology market but the fellows I know are getting good job offers. I understand the big cities are in the 200 to 250 but once you're out of those areas I seen people starting the 400K and up.....mostly south and Midwest.

Also I have noticed a few things. Doctors in general are complainers. If you go to the other forums anesthesia people are talking about the end of their field and so are other fields. I'm sure ill produce enough to make >500K and everyone else can sit around bitching about how bad cardio is.
 
If you do an interventional fellowship that goes way beyond just plain coronaries won't that increase your salary? Everyone on SDN cries about the cardiology market but the fellows I know are getting good job offers. I understand the big cities are in the 200 to 250 but once you're out of those areas I seen people starting the 400K and up.....mostly south and Midwest.

Also I have noticed a few things. Doctors in general are complainers. If you go to the other forums anesthesia people are talking about the end of their field and so are other fields. I'm sure ill produce enough to make >500K and everyone else can sit around bitching about how bad cardio is.

The point isn't about making $500k+ in a sh*tty location. While you're making 500k in BFE, the hospitalist guy working in the same place (who did 3-5 years less of training than you) is making 300k+ working half the year. And this isn't even considering the more frightening scenario for interventional cardiology - interventions have plateaued and is decreasing while 200 more guys are coming out every year. How many more of these waves can the market sustain? Structural isn't big enough a market to make any significant difference. Peripherals are shared in the community with IR and vascular. It's a pity because cardiology is such a great field, but overtraining is really gonna take a toll.
 
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Bronx,

How likely do you think it is that the gov't will cut reimbursement for GI scopes? 10 years ago Cardiology was a red hot field. Now it's GI. All good things must come to an end because nothing lasts forever.

What about virtual colonoscopy and radiologists performing those reads?
Or nurse endoscopists?
GI has to be susceptible to cuts because it is a high-volume field (ie, colonscopy). High volume fields always seem to attract the eyes of politicians.

When do you see it coming? GI has to take it up the butt eventually :)
 
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The point isn't about making $500k+ in a sh*tty location. While you're making 500k in BFE, the hospitalist guy working in the same place (who did 3-5 years less of training than you) is making 300k+ working half the year. And this isn't even considering the more frightening scenario for interventional cardiology - interventions have plateaued and is decreasing while 200 more guys are coming out every year. How many more of these waves can the market sustain? Structural isn't big enough a market to make any significant difference. Peripherals are shared in the community with IR and vascular. It's a pity because cardiology is such a great field, but overtraining is really gonna take a toll.

So then be a hospitalist. I rather make the 500K doing interventions. Life isn't fair and cardiologists are under appreciated but they still make more than most physicians. Hospitalist GI will come to an end also and so will GI. It's a high volume field that will attract the same cuts cardiology has. It's a cycle.
 
The point isn't about making $500k+ in a sh*tty location. While you're making 500k in BFE, the hospitalist guy working in the same place (who did 3-5 years less of training than you) is making 300k+ working half the year. And this isn't even considering the more frightening scenario for interventional cardiology - interventions have plateaued and is decreasing while 200 more guys are coming out every year. How many more of these waves can the market sustain? Structural isn't big enough a market to make any significant difference. Peripherals are shared in the community with IR and vascular. It's a pity because cardiology is such a great field, but overtraining is really gonna take a toll.

...then be a hospitalist.
 
So then be a hospitalist. I rather make the 500K doing interventions. Life isn't fair and cardiologists are under appreciated but they still make more than most physicians. Hospitalist GI will come to an end also and so will GI. It's a high volume field that will attract the same cuts cardiology has. It's a cycle.

My thoughts exactly...this ish cycles, baby, it cycles....

:D

:cool:
 
aren't hospitalists going to saturate soon too? esp since mid-level providers are going to get bigger and bigger?

Someone please post these job offers in the 300s for 7on7off, i haven't seen anything greater than 250$ in middle of no where TN
 
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It cycles......I agree....but some cycles will last your lifetime.....anticipate and read the market....
When was the last time cardiology was down...never in past 40 years ....infact until 2008 cardiology was in big boom...
I know a group in Minnesota... That was profitable for 40 years until 2009.....and now they are selling the practice.....go and talk to a private practice guy who has been there for at least 30 years
And cards fellowship numbers had steep fall from 2011 match ( people don't change their mind about fellowship at least 2 years prior) after the prospects became clear
I don't understand... How you expect GI to go down ...Gi cuts were proposed in 2011 but didnt affect The market ...ASG fought back well...
As far as changing field is considered.....I don't know a single cards guy who would be willing to do another fellowship......I would rather do Hospitalist in a good market....but won't do GI.

Anyhow.....the 500 k intervention jobs are not there any more....I kept a tab on the market since 2011 and the last one was in aug 2012 at KDMC ....there might be 1 or 2 in Alaska...but a 400 k job in rural setting doing intervention will make your life hell all year.....
 
It cycles......I agree....but some cycles will last your lifetime.....anticipate and read the market....
When was the last time cardiology was down...never in past 40 years ....infact until 2008 cardiology was in big boom...
I know a group in Minnesota... That was profitable for 40 years until 2009.....and now they are selling the practice.....go and talk to a private practice guy who has been there for at least 30 years
And cards fellowship numbers had steep fall from 2011 match ( people don't change their mind about fellowship at least 2 years prior) after the prospects became clear
I don't understand... How you expect GI to go down ...Gi cuts were proposed in 2011 but didnt affect The market ...ASG fought back well...
As far as changing field is considered.....I don't know a single cards guy who would be willing to do another fellowship......I would rather do Hospitalist in a good market....but won't do GI.

Anyhow.....the 500 k intervention jobs are not there any more....I kept a tab on the market since 2011 and the last one was in aug 2012 at KDMC ....there might be 1 or 2 in Alaska...but a 400 k job in rural setting doing intervention will make your life hell all year.....

Like I said everyone can bitch and moan.....ill find the 500K interventional job. In fact where I am they're making 1 million and are 35 minutes outside of manhattan. It has nothing to do with over saturation. Cardiovascular disease costs the government the most. Hence, they're tightening their belt. soon GI will be in their sights just like radiology is.

It's all about numbers and how much CVD costs the government.
 
It cycles......I agree....but some cycles will last your lifetime.....anticipate and read the market....
When was the last time cardiology was down...never in past 40 years ....infact until 2008 cardiology was in big boom...
I know a group in Minnesota... That was profitable for 40 years until 2009.....and now they are selling the practice.....go and talk to a private practice guy who has been there for at least 30 years
And cards fellowship numbers had steep fall from 2011 match ( people don't change their mind about fellowship at least 2 years prior) after the prospects became clear
I don't understand... How you expect GI to go down ...Gi cuts were proposed in 2011 but didnt affect The market ...ASG fought back well...
As far as changing field is considered.....I don't know a single cards guy who would be willing to do another fellowship......I would rather do Hospitalist in a good market....but won't do GI.

Anyhow.....the 500 k intervention jobs are not there any more....I kept a tab on the market since 2011 and the last one was in aug 2012 at KDMC ....there might be 1 or 2 in Alaska...but a 400 k job in rural setting doing intervention will make your life hell all year.....

Right now hospitalist a make that much because the government reimburses hospitals more. That might be ending soon which means they will drop the salary of a hospitalist. And for grist sake since so many people here rave about how great it is to be a hospitalist by all means go become one.
 
no one is bitching....we are just talking about trends....you don't need to be defensive...

Samin Sharma and Jeffrey Moses at Mt Sinai and Columbia earn 4 million dollar IN MANHATTAN

That is not the question....question is for people just graduating from fellowship, and market for cardiology has been worse than it was in past 10 years.

As far as trends in GI and Hospitalist is considered , only timw shalt show.
 
Like I said everyone can bitch and moan.....ill find the 500K interventional job. In fact where I am they're making 1 million and are 35 minutes outside of manhattan. It has nothing to do with over saturation. Cardiovascular disease costs the government the most. Hence, they're tightening their belt. soon GI will be in their sights just like radiology is.

It's all about numbers and how much CVD costs the government.

The ease or difficulty of finding a job above or below market value tells you about market saturation. Reimbursement rates in NYC are not that much lower than their Midwest counterpart, but the compensation packages are far smaller. The fact that there are people making >1 mil tells you nothing. In fact, it is suspected as these practitioners are very high volume and are contributing disproportionately to the market saturation. Governmental involvement in cardiology services is the mechanism for dropping reimbursements but they do not dictate market forces for physician jobs.
 
The ease or difficulty of finding a job above or below market value tells you about market saturation. Reimbursement rates in NYC are not that much lower than their Midwest counterpart, but the compensation packages are far smaller. The fact that there are people making >1 mil tells you nothing. In fact, it is suspected as these practitioners are very high volume and are contributing disproportionately to the market saturation. Governmental involvement in cardiology services is the mechanism for dropping reimbursements but they do not dictate market forces for physician jobs.

Fair enough...I was to broad with that statement but I do feel the oversaturation argument is way overplayed.
 
It is hard for a person with 3 year fellowship to find a job in desirable locations. These days, a non-invasive cardiologist is one who has done additional imaging fellowship. Invasive-noninterventional jobs are becoming virtually nonexistent in big cities, diagnostic caths are going to interventional cardiologists. Drastic reduction of cardiology fellowship slots is needed. With dropping reimbursements, physicians have been putting off the retirement plans, so market is somewhat saturated.
 
It is hard for a person with 3 year fellowship to find a job in desirable locations. These days, a non-invasive cardiologist is one who has done additional imaging fellowship. Invasive-noninterventional jobs are becoming virtually nonexistent in big cities, diagnostic caths are going to interventional cardiologists. Drastic reduction of cardiology fellowship slots is needed. With dropping reimbursements, physicians have been putting off the retirement plans, so market is somewhat saturated.

This is true, but it will never happen. Fellows are paid for the the good ole' CMS, and are a source of free labor. There is no incentive for programs to shut down, and the power that be have no skin in the employment game. Look at pathology and radiology. Both fields also need drastic (even more drastic than cards) cuts in fellowship spots but it's not happening.
 
It seems that most IM Sub fields are getting oversarurated quickly. Heme/Inc is terrible too, while pulm/cc and GI seem to be still good for now. Now I agree with the "just go with what you like," but nothing is that simple. I like/dislike my work based off several factors, not just the field of study itself. It seems that with hospital systems merging and buying up the PCPs, they control the referral base, so unless you are IM/FP/Peds you have no chance of opening your own clinic (something I've always wanted to do). Or are these just massive hiring freezes waiting for Obamacare to take full effect...


Who knows, sucks that the market can completely change within a year of starting your fellowship
 
Rise of hospital employment of cardiologists has also adversely affected the entry of fresh graduates in desirable locations. With the carrot of partnership in a private cardiology groups gone, cardiologists are much more mobile. When I was trying to find jobs last year in good areas to live, I was competing against people who had been in practice for 2-3 years and were trying to relocate. With looming cuts on hospital reimbursement, hospital employed cardiologists have also been getting offers that are lower than what was offered 2-3 years ago.

I don't know why ACC keeps on projecting shortage of cardiologists for future. If there is shortage of primary care every where, it makes more sense to increase the Family Medicine residency slots and cut down on the sub-specialist training slots.
 
Fair enough...I was to broad with that statement but I do feel the oversaturation argument is way overplayed.

This isn't exactly scientific, but I think it can be indicative of some basic trends. Go to any physician job site and look up the number of available positions by specialty. The lack of radiology, pathology, and now anesthesia jobs is supported by the low number of openings in those fields. For IM, there are "gen med" jobs aplenty. However, there are usually only a handful of cardiology jobs and are outnumbered by GI and critical care jobs 4-5:1. Obviously, it's not like all cardiology fellows are graduating with nothing on hand, but in general, this trend doesn't bode well.
 
This isn't exactly scientific, but I think it can be indicative of some basic trends. Go to any physician job site and look up the number of available positions by specialty. The lack of radiology, pathology, and now anesthesia jobs is supported by the low number of openings in those fields. For IM, there are "gen med" jobs aplenty. However, there are usually only a handful of cardiology jobs and are outnumbered by GI and critical care jobs 4-5:1. Obviously, it's not like all cardiology fellows are graduating with nothing on hand, but in general, this trend doesn't bode well.

I've noticed the same trends.
 
This isn't exactly scientific, but I think it can be indicative of some basic trends. Go to any physician job site and look up the number of available positions by specialty. The lack of radiology, pathology, and now anesthesia jobs is supported by the low number of openings in those fields. For IM, there are "gen med" jobs aplenty. However, there are usually only a handful of cardiology jobs and are outnumbered by GI and critical care jobs 4-5:1. Obviously, it's not like all cardiology fellows are graduating with nothing on hand, but in general, this trend doesn't bode well.

Nah I'm sure you're pretty much on target but I guess I have different perspective on things. If I top off at $500 K ill be more than thrilled. The old times of the 750 or 1 mill I dont feel the need to see. My plan is to go south and try to start off at 300 or so. We'll see I guess.
 
How are the other IM fellowships doing in this market? Rheum, Heme/Onc, pulm/cc? I understand GI is doing just fine...
 
How are the other IM fellowships doing in this market? Rheum, Heme/Onc, pulm/cc? I understand GI is doing just fine...

Pulm is decent. Heme onc is bad. Rheum should be okay. Allergy is pretty bad. Not sure about neph.
 
The question is can you see yourself doing any of the other specialties? It doesn't matter if derm is going to pay me 1 Million dollars for 40hours a week. I can't stand rash and skin problems, likewise for A&I.
 
Pulm is decent. Heme onc is bad. Rheum should be okay. Allergy is pretty bad. Not sure about neph.

You keep saying hem/onc is bad...I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. I'm in a competitive location and I know of at least 6 positions currently available. Everybody I know who has looked for a job recently has had multiple offers.
 
You keep saying hem/onc is bad...I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. I'm in a competitive location and I know of at least 6 positions currently available. Everybody I know who has looked for a job recently has had multiple offers.

This is what I heard from heme onc fellows at my shop, as well as number of job openings online. If you've a different assessment, then I must defer to you.
 
This is what I heard from heme onc fellows at my shop, as well as number of job openings online.

They need to try harder.

Also, a lot of people will say that when they can't get their dream job (location, practice type and salary) that the job market sucks. Residents and fellows tend to be pretty short-sighted when looking for jobs (I include myself in that group) and focus to narrowly (again, on location, practice type and salary).

Expecting your dream job to be your first one out of training is irrational.
 
They need to try harder.

Also, a lot of people will say that when they can't get their dream job (location, practice type and salary) that the job market sucks. Residents and fellows tend to be pretty short-sighted when looking for jobs (I include myself in that group) and focus to narrowly (again, on location, practice type and salary).

Expecting your dream job to be your first one out of training is irrational.

Graduating fellows I talked said it was pretty easy to land a job in H/O. Job offers from just about any city. Like any other speciality, they took a pay cut to stay in one of the bigger cities (i.e. Chicago and SF). Although, the community jobs out in the Chicago suburbs seem to pay pretty well, not sure about the work load though. I wish I could say the same for our Rad Onc friends :rolleyes: Seems like the money is there, but the locations are not (unless you graduate from MDACC:smuggrin:)
 
Graduating fellows I talked said it was pretty easy to land a job in H/O. Job offers from just about any city. Like any other speciality, they took a pay cut to stay in one of the bigger cities (i.e. Chicago and SF). Although, the community jobs out in the Chicago suburbs seem to pay pretty well, not sure about the work load though. I wish I could say the same for our Rad Onc friends :rolleyes: Seems like the money is there, but the locations are not (unless you graduate from MDACC:smuggrin:)

Are you looking at doing a h/o fellowship?
 
Though this is not the place to discuss Hem-Onc job outlook, I would agree with Bronx. My program has 3 Hem Onc fellows who had a hard time finding respectable placement. One of them wanted to go to Atlanta and did not get a job within 3 hours driving distance. ( Though, we don't have a strong Hem-Onc Program). Obviously, everyone gets a job at the end.
However, if you are in a field which has 400 open spots, hospitals won't mind shelling out 500k ( GI, Pulm/CC) . On the other hand , if 700 graduating fellow are vying for 50 open spots, take a guess.

Again, None of this stands true for academics....and THESE OPEN spots are advertised spots on sites like practicematch/link . The TRUE No. of spots exceed number of advertised spots. However, advertised spots do reflect your demand in the market.
 
And again market fluctuates, as big expansion leads to job creation now and then. For eg after expansion of osu wexner medical center, there were academic position in every speciality esp hem onc and GI. I am guessing that is the area gut onc is talking about.
 
Here are my thoughts of current job market from a senior fellow:

1) Things fluctuate. Just because more available jobs right now in GI, ect, doesn't mean that will be the case in 2 years or 5 years or 10. I do agree that the number of graduating fellows is probably too high and I'm not sure if I agree with the ACC's constant doom and gloom on Cardiologist shortage, but do need to remember when dealing with Cardiology that EP, Interventional, General/Imaging, and even now HF are all basically different subspecialties and can be viewed in that way and it does require more fellows that your basic GI or pulm/cc.

2) EP may have a "job shortage" but every EP guy from my program has found a job in the last 5 years with the vast majority of those guys finding jobs in places they were searching including some competitive areas like Dallas/Houston, ect. From my experience, I haven't seen the "I can't even find a job" talk that I see on the internet and with other specialties. Also, in my area (mid-size metropolitian area) the EP guys in practice still have the "best" jobs and are making 500-800k, no significant call, ect.. It's just that it doesn't take as many EP docs to cover a hospital and most of the ones I know have a good set up and don't want to share right now.

3) If job security is your main concern I think Interventional with broad level II will be the safest bet. STEMI coverage will always be needed especially with every community/regional program wanting 24/7 coverage. The old-timers can only do so much and have to open it up for help more so than General or EP guys. Plus a lot of grandfathered Interventional guys should be coming up on retirement in 5-10 years when they start dropping down in the cath lab. Also, we had a CV-line leader of a local hospital chain talk to us and basically stated that after they get 1-2 General Cards guys that can do advanced imaging (MRI), they have little desire to bring in any more General guys but prefer Interventional guys that are expected to do more General work but also can cover Interventional call and do some Interventional work. So I think even with cath volumes going down that skill set is still needed and will only help in your job search..

4) Even with reimbursements going down, salaries that I've seen are still holding somewhat tight for now and definitely in a decent range IMO. U can't expect the 800k+ salaries but I would be plenty happy to be in the 400-500k range especially if work load isn't as bad. And that range is what I've been seeing with most tentative offers for IC in some decent sized cities in the West (outside of SF, LA, Seattle), Midwest, South, ect.

5) The most important thing IMO is for the Cardiologists in the communities to be more united and leave the dog-eat-dog previous mentality that PP Cards guys used over the years and realize that there is power in numbers. Communities/hospital chains need our skill set. I've seen some great set-ups by groups (usually led by younger guys) that have reasonable and fair contracts and who have very good quality-of-life set ups (4 day work weeks, 6-10 weeks vacation) because the Cardiologist share responsibilities/patients, ect. The times when you had 5-6 docs running around seeing "their patients' at 3-4 local hospitals, doing cath/clinic/inpatient same days, ect should all come to an end. The best group set ups I've seen are those where it's run like a fellowship where someone is on cath for a week, wards for a week, clinic/echo/nuc for a week. No reason why that shouldn't be the case IMO.

6) Cardiologists should demand to get paid for STEMI call and even General Call like Trauma docs get paid for Trauma call, ect... and that should become more the mainstay IMO.

7) I still think the value of being in a specialty that can't be taken over by mid-levels (EP, IC, most General) is of extreme importance... In 5-10 years the influx of midlevels in Hospitalist work will only get worse. I expect midlevels to be more involved in GI/scopes than what we do.

8) There is a reason why the turnover rate is so high with Hospitalists (50%+ in 3-4 years) even with good pay/time off. It's easy for med students or residents to not understand that but until you work as a hospitalist (which I have) vs. specialist than you won't truly understand the picture. Being lowest on the totum pole as a 50 year old Hospitalist who is being forced to admit drunk after drunk or Ortho's hip fracture takes a special personality in order to take that. Personality, can't even do it as a moonlighting fellow.

9) There is always value in having a skill set that is the only skill set that can take care of the hospital's sickest and most profitable (along with Ortho) patients. Again, it requires the specialty to come together to understand that value.
 
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Though this is not the place to discuss Hem-Onc job outlook, I would agree with Bronx. My program has 3 Hem Onc fellows who had a hard time finding respectable placement. One of them wanted to go to Atlanta and did not get a job within 3 hours driving distance. ( Though, we don't have a strong Hem-Onc Program). Obviously, everyone gets a job at the end.
However, if you are in a field which has 400 open spots, hospitals won't mind shelling out 500k ( GI, Pulm/CC) . On the other hand , if 700 graduating fellow are vying for 50 open spots, take a guess.

Again, None of this stands true for academics....and THESE OPEN spots are advertised spots on sites like practicematch/link . The TRUE No. of spots exceed number of advertised spots. However, advertised spots do reflect your demand in the market.


Here is my experience in job hunting in Hemonc

Hospital employed offers for first yr income
Upper pinsula Michigan 450
North Dokota 450
Victoria taxas 500
1 hr from cleaveland 400-450
Western ny largecity 330
Columbus Ohio 350-400
La cross WI 400

Group practice with partnership promise potential
Richmond VA 275 with 500 potential with partnership after 2 yr
San Francisco east bay 250-270 start 400 after partnership
LA 250 start 400-600 after partnership
Kentucky 300 start 600 potential after partnership
Edison Nj 180
Atlantic city 240 start 400 potential
Upstate ny 250 start 400 after 2 yr
Providence RI 180 start 300 after partnership
1.5 hr from Houston 250 start 400 potential

I had offers from all places I interviewed except 3 places (I did not mention those places above)
 
Here are my thoughts of current job market from a senior fellow:

1) Things fluctuate. Just because more available jobs right now in GI, ect, doesn't mean that will be the case in 2 years or 5 years or 10. I do agree that the number of graduating fellows is probably too high and I'm not sure if I agree with the ACC's constant doom and gloom on Cardiologist shortage, but do need to remember when dealing with Cardiology that EP, Interventional, General/Imaging, and even now HF are all basically different subspecialties and can be viewed in that way and it does require more fellows that your basic GI or pulm/cc.

2) EP may have a "job shortage" but every EP guy from my program has found a job in the last 5 years with the vast majority of those guys finding jobs in places they were searching including some competitive areas like Dallas/Houston, ect. From my experience, I haven't seen the "I can't even find a job" talk that I see on the internet and with other specialties. Also, in my area (mid-size metropolitian area) the EP guys in practice still have the "best" jobs and are making 500-800k, no significant call, ect.. It's just that it doesn't take as many EP docs to cover a hospital and most of the ones I know have a good set up and don't want to share right now.

3) If job security is your main concern I think Interventional with broad level II will be the safest bet. STEMI coverage will always be needed especially with every community/regional program wanting 24/7 coverage. The old-timers can only do so much and have to open it up for help more so than General or EP guys. Plus a lot of grandfathered Interventional guys should be coming up on retirement in 5-10 years when they start dropping down in the cath lab. Also, we had a CV-line leader of a local hospital chain talk to us and basically stated that after they get 1-2 General Cards guys that can do advanced imaging (MRI), they have little desire to bring in any more General guys but prefer Interventional guys that are expected to do more General work but also can cover Interventional call and do some Interventional work. So I think even with cath volumes going down that skill set is still needed and will only help in your job search..

4) Even with reimbursements going down, salaries that I've seen are still holding somewhat tight for now and definitely in a decent range IMO. U can't expect the 800k+ salaries but I would be plenty happy to be in the 400-500k range especially if work load isn't as bad. And that range is what I've been seeing with most tentative offers for IC in some decent sized cities in the West (outside of SF, LA, Seattle), Midwest, South, ect.

5) The most important thing IMO is for the Cardiologists in the communities to be more united and leave the dog-eat-dog previous mentality that PP Cards guys used over the years and realize that there is power in numbers. Communities/hospital chains need our skill set. I've seen some great set-ups by groups (usually led by younger guys) that have reasonable and fair contracts and who have very good quality-of-life set ups (4 day work weeks, 6-10 weeks vacation) because the Cardiologist share responsibilities/patients, ect. The times when you had 5-6 docs running around seeing "their patients' at 3-4 local hospitals, doing cath/clinic/inpatient same days, ect should all come to an end. The best group set ups I've seen are those where it's run like a fellowship where someone is on cath for a week, wards for a week, clinic/echo/nuc for a week. No reason why that shouldn't be the case IMO.

6) Cardiologists should demand to get paid for STEMI call and even General Call like Trauma docs get paid for Trauma call, ect... and that should become more the mainstay IMO.

7) I still think the value of being in a specialty that can't be taken over by mid-levels (EP, IC, most General) is of extreme importance... In 5-10 years the influx of midlevels in Hospitalist work will only get worse. I expect midlevels to be more involved in GI/scopes than what we do.

8) There is a reason why the turnover rate is so high with Hospitalists (50%+ in 3-4 years) even with good pay/time off. It's easy for med students or residents to not understand that but until you work as a hospitalist (which I have) vs. specialist than you won't truly understand the picture. Being lowest on the totum pole as a 50 year old Hospitalist who is being forced to admit drunk after drunk or Ortho's hip fracture takes a special personality in order to take that. Personality, can't even do it as a moonlighting fellow.

9) There is always value in having a skill set that is the only skill set that can take care of the hospital's sickest and most profitable (along with Ortho) patients. Again, it requires the specialty to come together to understand that value.

very interesting perspective.
 
Curious to how the cardiology job market is this year (2013). Seems that folks are screaming "shortage" but at the same time little jobs are available. Please give insight to the different fields of cardio (EP, interven, non-invasive, etc).


thanks!

I was recently looking in the Chicago area. Still no jobs unless you have connections. Jobs are not advertised, but spread by word-of-mouth. In the far suburbs there were a couple positions, though not the greatest jobs in general. I think it is slowly opening back up, but be prepared to look outside the market that you were hoping for if you are graduating fellowship soon. Boost your application by getting as many certifications as possible.
 
Very depressing, especially since I absolutely love cardiology. Anyone ever see any cardiologists working part time as hospitalists or urgent care or something while building up their cardiology practice? Seems like a very nice way to supplement your income while waiting for cardio job market to pick up, but you never hear of anyone ever doing it.
 
Very depressing, especially since I absolutely love cardiology. Anyone ever see any cardiologists working part time as hospitalists or urgent care or something while building up their cardiology practice? Seems like a very nice way to supplement your income while waiting for cardio job market to pick up, but you never hear of anyone ever doing it.

It's not that your income is low once you find a job - it's that you may have difficulty finding a job, especially one that suits your needs. I am not sure the job market is gonna open up any time soon since they're pumping out 800 f**king fellows per year. The field needs to start shutting down some of these lower tier community fellowships.
 
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