Can I keep my old drivers license + insurance?

[schwasted589]

I'm moving to MI from OH for residency.

My permanent mailing address is in OH but I'll have a house in MI.

Given the proximity of OH to MI (and I'm assuming a commute between state lines isn't unheard of), could I keep my OH car insurance/license/car registration? It'd be a lot more convenient (and yes, cheaper).

Thanks!

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[Ladholyman]

You can but make sure you drive like an old Grandma so you don't ever get pulled over.

 

[sazerac]

You should insure your car where it is principally kept (parked at night). This can vary from town to town or zip code to zip code. You should register the car in the state where it is principally kept as well. Some states even require local insurance before they let you register the car. If you get into an accident, you aren't going to want any funny business about where you've been insuring your car.

Your drivers license is a different issue and should be from where you are domiciled. A domicile can be somewhat subjective, but it is roughly the place you call "home", and is where you live and vote and get your state ID and pay your taxes as a resident.

It isn't clear from your OP- so is it true that you will be sleeping in Michigan and working in Michigan? If that is the case, then you are going to have a really hard time claiming that your domicile is in Ohio. Where you have your mail sent is irrelevant. You can establish a mail forwarding service in any state, cheaply, but that by itself won't establish a domicile.

 

[colbgw02]

OP, this is pretty clear cut - you're going to be a resident of Michigan. Legally, you're supposed to register your car and get licensed there. Insurance should follow the car's location, irrespective of its registration.

As a practical matter, among location, registration, and license, having two out of the three match will often keep you out of trouble. In other words, don't get pulled over in Indiana with Michigan plates and an Ohio driver's license.

 

[LucidSplash]

If you ever need to actually use your insurance, they could deny your claim based on fraud if you don't update the address to where you are actually living and where the car is kept.

 

[FlowLimited]

You certainly should, but you will see many out-of-state license plates in the hospital parking garage belonging to residents that didn't. As stated above, you need to consider the potential risks when making your decision.

 

[CaliAtenza]

You should insure your car where it is principally kept (parked at night). This can vary from town to town or zip code to zip code. You should register the car in the state where it is principally kept as well. Some states even require local insurance before they let you register the car. If you get into an accident, you aren't going to want any funny business about where you've been insuring your car.

Your drivers license is a different issue and should be from where you are domiciled. A domicile can be somewhat subjective, but it is roughly the place you call "home", and is where you live and vote and get your state ID and pay your taxes as a resident.

It isn't clear from your OP- so is it true that you will be sleeping in Michigan and working in Michigan? If that is the case, then you are going to have a really hard time claiming that your domicile is in Ohio. Where you have your mail sent is irrelevant. You can establish a mail forwarding service in any state, cheaply, but that by itself won't establish a domicile.

Actually, each state has a different definition of "domicile" for tax and resident purposes. OP would be wise to look up the rules in both Michigan and Ohio. For example, in CA, you can maintain your CA domicile even though you are working somewhere else, as long as you have a permanent address in CA and show clear intent to return to CA. The time you have lived in CA and the assets you have there also count towards the definition of domicile.

Also, no state can force you to change domicile according to the interstate commerce clause in the Constitution. If you have a national insurance company, it's as simple as letting the company know where you car will be "garaged" mostly. Rates may change though.

 

[RangerBob]

Yes, I moved to MI for internship and you do need to update your driver's license/plates. I think they give you 90 days to do it.

Typically you insure your car where you park it, regardless of residency.

It is EXCEEDINGLY important to get MI insurance. I cannot stress this enough. They are a no-fault state. That means if you are in the state longer than what they set aside for visitors (2-4 weeks perhaps? A quick google search will tell you) then you are legally uninsured. You cannot drive in MI (other than temporarily/as a visitor) unless you have in-state insurance (they will all be no-fault), or out-of state insurance with a no-fault rider (what college students who are not residents would need to do if the don't want to change insurance agents).

I knew some co-interns who did not update their insurance. I thought it was really stupid. Yes MI insurance rates are ridiculous, but you put your entire future at stake if you get into any kind of accident--particularly if you cause it.

 

[CaliAtenza]

OP, this is pretty clear cut - you're going to be a resident of Michigan. Legally, you're supposed to register your car and get licensed there. Insurance should follow the car's location, irrespective of its registration.

As a practical matter, among location, registration, and license, having two out of the three match will often keep you out of trouble. In other words, don't get pulled over in Indiana with Michigan plates and an Ohio driver's license.

The main thing is to try and not get pulled over at all (No DUI/DWI, speeding within city limits, etc).

OP needs to research the rules in both states as far as domicile goes. If he has a permanent residence in OH, which he states he does, and has spent a significant amount of time of his life in OH, then he can claim to be domiciled in OH. Legally, he cannot be forced to give that up. From my research, you have to legally abandon your domicile through an affadavit or something similar. If the OP has a clear intent to return to OH, then that's his domicile, even though he will be in MI for residency. I'm sure OP would want to maintain his voter registration in OH as well.

 

[CaliAtenza]

Yes, I moved to MI for internship and you do need to update your driver's license/plates. I think they give you 90 days to do it.

Typically you insure your car where you park it, regardless of residency.

It is EXCEEDINGLY important to get MI insurance. I cannot stress this enough. They are a no-fault state. That means if you are in the state longer than what they set aside for visitors (2-4 weeks perhaps? A quick google search will tell you) then you are legally uninsured. You cannot drive in MI (other than temporarily/as a visitor) unless you have in-state insurance (they will all be no-fault), or out-of state insurance with a no-fault rider (what college students who are not residents would need to do if the don't want to change insurance agents).

I knew some co-interns who did not update their insurance. I thought it was really stupid. Yes MI insurance rates are ridiculous, but you put your entire future at stake if you get into any kind of accident--particularly if you cause it.

Well I guess if MI is a no-fault insurance state, then you would have to change your DL and plates.

 

[schwasted589]

Yes, I moved to MI for internship and you do need to update your driver's license/plates. I think they give you 90 days to do it.

Typically you insure your car where you park it, regardless of residency.

It is EXCEEDINGLY important to get MI insurance. I cannot stress this enough. They are a no-fault state. That means if you are in the state longer than what they set aside for visitors (2-4 weeks perhaps? A quick google search will tell you) then you are legally uninsured. You cannot drive in MI (other than temporarily/as a visitor) unless you have in-state insurance (they will all be no-fault), or out-of state insurance with a no-fault rider (what college students who are not residents would need to do if the don't want to change insurance agents).

I knew some co-interns who did not update their insurance. I thought it was really stupid. Yes MI insurance rates are ridiculous, but you put your entire future at stake if you get into any kind of accident--particularly if you cause it.

Hmm, we typically keep no-fault insurance always regardless of where we live, but that's what i was curious about. If I have no-fault insurance even outside of MI, will that still mean I'm uninsured.

 

[RangerBob]

Well I guess if MI is a no-fault insurance state, then you would have to change your DL and plates.

I'm not sure if you need in-state plates/license to get no fault insurance, as the college kids are not required to change to in-state residency (if they're from out of state), but they are required to either get an in-state policy or keep their current policy and purchase a no-fault rider that meets the requirements.

I imagine plenty of OOS students don't do that, but they should.

I looked to see if I could avoid getting MI plates/license since I was only going to be there for a year (just internship) and I still had my CA plates/license from prior to med school (since I was an out of state student I just maintained CA residency--was easier, and I got to avoid Chicago-area DMVs). Per your prior post I may have had a defense to keep my CA residency, but I also didn't own a home there (just parents) and since I was making money/paying taxes in MI, I figured it was probably simpler to get MI plates/license.

 

[RangerBob]

Hmm, we typically keep no-fault insurance always regardless of where we live, but that's what i was curious about. If I have no-fault insurance even outside of MI, will that still mean I'm uninsured.

Hmm. I didn't know people did that unless they were in a no-fault state.

I think if your current no-fault insurance meets the MI state requirements you'd be ok. You would still at minimum need to update your address to your MI address. Insurance rates are based on where the car is garaged, and sometimes even national providers, like State Farm (what I have), will need to transfer you to an agent in your new state and re-write your policy (you get to keep all your discounts though). (And if you need to do that, then it'd be best to update your plates/license in case a cop sees you've got MI-provided insurance)

Even if you can keep your OH insurance as is, I still think you would need MI plates/license (CaliAtenza makes an argument you don't--if I were you I'd talk to someone at the MI DMV, or a MI insurance agent/police officer/lawyer--someone). I haven't personally heard of anyone working/paying taxes in a state, and living in that state, who didn't claim residency there. If you're not going to pursue MI plates/license, I think you need to get (or find online from an official source) something in writing from someone in-the-know that says you're fine.

 

[colbgw02]

The main thing is to try and not get pulled over at all (No DUI/DWI, speeding within city limits, etc).

OP needs to research the rules in both states as far as domicile goes. If he has a permanent residence in OH, which he states he does, and has spent a significant amount of time of his life in OH, then he can claim to be domiciled in OH. Legally, he cannot be forced to give that up. From my research, you have to legally abandon your domicile through an affadavit or something similar. If the OP has a clear intent to return to OH, then that's his domicile, even though he will be in MI for residency. I'm sure OP would want to maintain his voter registration in OH as well.

I do not believe this is true. Relocating to a state for purposes of full-time employment is overt evidence of intent to establish domicile that overrides almost all evidence of intent to return to a different location. The fact that it's employment and not a degree-seeking program is critical here. This is why so many states mandate how quickly you have to get an in-state driver's license and car registration. Also, having changed my domicile a number of times, I can assure you that an affidavit is not required.

 

[CaliAtenza]

I do not believe this is true. Relocating to a state for purposes of full-time employment is overt evidence of intent to establish domicile that overrides almost all evidence of intent to return to a different location. The fact that it's employment and not a degree-seeking program is critical here. This is why so many states mandate how quickly you have to get an in-state driver's license and car registration. Also, having changed my domicile a number of times, I can assure you that an affidavit is not required.

I understand what you are saying and it does make sense, but then how do you determine the domicile of say someone who works in NYC full time, but then goes home across the river to Jersey or back to CT at night? What would their domicile be? States mandate how quickly you need to get an in-state driver's license and car registration so that they can collect tax from you. The OP is from OH, so while I was looking up stuff regarding OH, I came across something that said that one way to prove that you have changed domicile from OH to another state is to get an affidavit to prove it. It's not the only way of course, as you have said, but it is there, legally.

 

[colbgw02]

I understand what you are saying and it does make sense, but then how do you determine the domicile of say someone who works in NYC full time, but then goes home across the river to Jersey or back to CT at night? What would their domicile be? States mandate how quickly you need to get an in-state driver's license and car registration so that they can collect tax from you. The OP is from OH, so while I was looking up stuff regarding OH, I came across something that said that one way to prove that you have changed domicile from OH to another state is to get an affidavit to prove it. It's not the only way of course, as you have said, but it is there, legally.

In your scenario, the person is a resident of New Jersey or CT. The only thing that the person must due with respect to New York is file a tax return there, as a non-resident. The person would also have to file a state return in New Jersey, but how much in taxes go to which states would be determined by the particulars of those states' tax codes. Some states grant credits for taxes paid and money earned in a different state.

An affidavit by itself is insufficient. If I live, pay taxes, work, vote, register cars, and am licensed to drive in State A, then I can't simply swear an affidavit stating that I am a resident of State B and make it true. The underpinning of domicile is intent - where do you intend to establish your household. When a person relocates to a state for the purpose of full-time employment, then that is the singular overt act of household establishment. You can't move to a state, live there, and then claim that you don't intend to live there (long-term plans are immaterial here).

 

[Raryn]

Every state has rules that somewhere within 30-90 days of moving there, you must change your license and registration. The exceptions are typically for full-time students and all members of the military.

That said, it's something that's not typically enforced. I kept my CA license/plates all four years of out of state medical school and even got a couple traffic tickets during my time there. The police officer never even asked me about the license issue, though I gave him a local address and he could have.

I went back to CA for residency but left the state for fellowship. Still have a CA drivers license, still have CA plates, been here for almost a year now. Not planning on changing before I change states again in Summer 2018 (though due to personal reasons, I am going to move for my first actual attending job to yet another random state, where I will finally probably get a non-CA license).

 

[RangerBob]

Every state has rules that somewhere within 30-90 days of moving there, you must change your license and registration. The exceptions are typically for full-time students and all members of the military.

That said, it's something that's not typically enforced. I kept my CA license/plates all four years of out of state medical school and even got a couple traffic tickets during my time there. The police officer never even asked me about the license issue, though I gave him a local address and he could have.

I went back to CA for residency but left the state for fellowship. Still have a CA drivers license, still have CA plates, been here for almost a year now. Not planning on changing before I change states again in Summer 2018 (though due to personal reasons, I am going to move for my first actual attending job to yet another random state, where I will finally probably get a non-CA license).

Did you update your insurance to your new location?

 

[mvenus929]

I changed my license to the state I moved to for residency, because my old license was going to expire, and I wasn't going to be physically in the state I had previously claimed my residency to renew it. My car still has the old plates, though, because it technically belongs to my mother, who does live in that other state, and it's a huge hassle for me to get a power of attorney in order to get the title transferred to the new state in order to register for new plates. Plus, the ones I have are prettier anyway, and I live in a military town, so there are a lot of out of state plates here.

 

[deleted109597]

You can write up your own power of attorney paperwork. It's not like you have to have a lawyer do it. Or, your mom could just sign the title and send it to you (if the car is owned at this point).

Cops often do care quite a bit about having a dissonance between DL and tags though. Also, some places require you to have whatever state license they have before you can get tags, so don't try it the other way around.