Being an outsider in your own class

[Tester34]

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[northernpsy]

I do agree that it is not fair that they aren't letting you be part of the conversation about call changes. However, I don't think it is necessarily that they intended to give you the cold shoulder but just that it IS more difficult to strike up a friendship with someone who is in a different stage of life than you are. Once someone becomes a parent, it becomes a lot harder to socialize in "adult only" situations like going to bars. Hiring a babysitter can be expensive. If these people have young kids the kids may not be sleeping through the night and that plus the normal exhaustion of a surgical residency may mean they are simply too tired to deal with going out drinking.
Plus, once people become parents, it is just easier to have small talk about your kids with other parents than to try to figure out what to talk about with someone who doesn't have that common ground with you.

If you did want to keep trying with these people, it might be more effective to try to invite one of them at a time to a kid-friendly event. Maybe once you get to know them a bit you could offer to stop by their place after their kids have gone to bed to hang out or drink or whatever.

 

[the argus]

It's obvious you're frustrated, and I'm sorry about that. But the lack of insight you're showing about this issue makes it pretty clear why they don't want to hang out with you.

Really try to absorb this next fact: IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU. Speaking from experience, having kids during residency is rough. You're spending 60-80 hours/week working, someone else has to be taking care of the kids during that time. It's a pretty dick move that after you've been at work for 70 hours over the week, to then tell your spouse that you are going to choose to spend another 2 hours out at the bar rather than spending time with your family. And you're upset because they didn't go get drinks after dinner? They are paying for babysitters and chances are one of their kids is gonna be up at 2am whining about something. And you're upset that when you want to do things outside work that they want to bring their kids along? Seriously? And newsflash, but not everyone thinks sitting at a bar drinking alcohol is fun.

It is a dick move to change schedules without even discussing it with you, I agree with that. But basically everything else you're complaining about makes you sound clueless.

 

[AdmiralChz]

This one's tough, and I'm sorry you've had this experience. But it looks like two of your coresidents have 3 kids and the other one has 2 - that's an immense time drain that's really difficult to quantify.

Are you friendly with any residents outside of your program - perhaps you've interacted with EM, anesthesia, surgical subspecialties? This might be a good group to reach out to. But don't sit and sulk thinking everyone hates you - they probably just don't know you very well and you are clearly in a different point of your life which is completely fine!

 

[IM2GI]

Their lifestyle is just different than yours. This is a natural progression that happens to everyone.

They have babysitters to pay for/send home, bedtime stories to read, and sleep for themselves. There is always a division between the married with kids crowd and the single crowd. Expand your social circle to the other residency programs.

 

[icd22]

Having a kid changes your social life. I have friends over quite frequently, but mostly others with kids. It makes it easier to socialize when my daughter has a playmate. Plus, if my kid throws a tantrum, chances are they won't judge bc they've been there. I do have friends without kids, and let me tell you, it gets annoying when they repeatedly say "it's so nice out, let's go to happy hour!"... hmm, no. I need at least a 12h heads up to give me enough time to plan care for my daughter.

The call schedule crap and message group without you is douchy though. I'm not sure how you can address this without alienating them more. Maybe see if there are any openings at other surgery programs. Going through residency without fitting in sounds though.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Having a kid changes your social life. I have friends over quite frequently, but mostly others with kids. It makes it easier to socialize when my daughter has a playmate. Plus, if my kid throws a tantrum, chances are they won't judge bc they've been there. I do have friends without kids, and let me tell you, it gets annoying when they repeatedly say "it's so nice out, let's go to happy hour!"... hmm, no. I need at least a 12h heads up to give me enough time to plan care for my daughter.

The call schedule crap and message group without you is douchy though. I'm not sure how you can address this without alienating them more. Maybe see if there are any openings at other surgery programs. Going through residency without fitting in sounds though.

There's no guarantee that the next program will be more socially palatable to the OP. Moreover, transferring because "my co-residents are all married wih kids, so I dont have a drinking buddy" probably wont fly all that well.

In a surgical field, its hard to beleive that you have that much free time anyway.

It might be a better idea to stick this one out.

 

[deleted480308]

90 minutes isn't long enough to eat dinner with you?

 

[aDOdoctor]

Why not start your own group chat with them? Something like, "Hey guys I wanted to see if I can include you all in a group chat so we can all communicate together more easily." That way you don't have to feel awkward asking to be included in their already existing one. Plus, you'll appear more proactive with trying to stay in touch.


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[IM2GI]

Having a kid changes your social life. I have friends over quite frequently, but mostly others with kids. It makes it easier to socialize when my daughter has a playmate. Plus, if my kid throws a tantrum, chances are they won't judge bc they've been there. I do have friends without kids, and let me tell you, it gets annoying when they repeatedly say "it's so nice out, let's go to happy hour!"... hmm, no. I need at least a 12h heads up to give me enough time to plan care for my daughter.

The call schedule crap and message group without you is douchy though. I'm not sure how you can address this without alienating them more. Maybe see if there are any openings at other surgery programs. Going through residency without fitting in sounds though.

Recommending transferring programs caused you're not best friends with your co-residents? Please.

 

[DokterMom]

Acknowledge to them that you're in a different place socially -- you just are, and that's OK. But call them on the exclusionary tactics and call schedule stuff. And look for friends in other places or other classes. Your own class just isn't meant to be --

 

[killerleaf]

Do you really want to be in a group chat with people that 99% of the talk is going to revolve around babysitters, sleep schedules, eating schedules, and all the other stuff that parents talk about? That is probably why they did not include you, knowing you would be bored.

 

[icd22]

Recommending transferring programs caused you're not best friends with your co-residents? Please.

I was only suggesting it bc the OP seemed really bothered by it. But you are right, being best friends with coresidents isn't a must to successfully complete residency, although it seems that it's not just about that. They are also f-ing him over and don't find his opinions legitimate. My guess is that there's something else going on with the OP that rubs everyone the wrong way, which he doesn't realize, and chances are it would also rub residents at another program the wrong way, ending in the same place. If I were the OP, most likely I would focus my free time on Tinder, making friends outside of medicine, and focusing on hobbies.

 

[doc05]

Why do you have so much free time as a surgical resident?

 

[bannie22]

I dont understand why they have to go out with you for drinks.

However, I do sympathize that it is difficult to maintain a good working relationship with people who are seemingly deliberately leaving you out of many of the decision making processes in the workplace and also giving you the short end of the stick.

I think you should bring up your concerns about the workplace inequality, about the call schedule etc. However, I dont think you need to push any further with "hanging out" with your colleagues. They seem to have their own lives they want to focus on. Just hang out with your friends outside of residency.

 

[IM2GI]

I dont understand why they have to go out with you for drinks.

However, I do sympathize that it is difficult to maintain a good working relationship with people who are seemingly deliberately leaving you out of many of the decision making processes in the workplace and also giving you the short end of the stick.

I think you should bring up your concerns about the workplace inequality, about the call schedule etc. However, I dont think you need to push any further with "hanging out" with your colleagues. They seem to have their own lives they want to focus on. Just hang out with your friends outside of residency.

It is very hard to have that conversation without coming off as annoying and them talking trash about you.

I would simply say, hey I would appreciate being included in program and schedule related issues.

Don't you have a chief or something? I find it hard to believe the residents are coming up with their own call schedule.

 

[mvenus929]

Why do you have to be friends with just the people in your class? What about the other 4 classes of residents? What about residents in other programs? I tend to stick with people in my own program, but that's because I have 19 classmates, and there are enough of us that are single that we have our clique, and the married people have their clique, and the ones with kids have their clique... If I was in a smaller program where I didn't have the variety of people, I'd be branching out as much as I could.

 

[rokshana]

It is very hard to have that conversation without coming off as annoying and them talking trash about you.

I would simply say, hey I would appreciate being included in program and schedule related issues.

Don't you have a chief or something? I find it hard to believe the residents are coming up with their own call schedule.

i agree that the call changes and work related issues should not just handed to you and they should have the common courtesy to ask...that aspect has nothing to do with being married and having kids...that's just them being doucey...

you mentioned years of having to deal with this..so how many more years do you have to deal with this? if its only for a few more months, well, just suck it up and once you are done, you won't have to deal with them again...if you still have a few more years, then you may want to consider either discussing it with them that you would be happy to help them out and switch calls when needed, but that you would prefer to be asked about any future changes to the schedule that is put out by the program...and maybe talk to the person that makes the schedule for your program that any changes to your schedule will be communicated by you otherwise you are not aware of that change.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I was a single guy for awhile and I recently settle down so I can see both side of the issue.

I think posters who think OP is overeacting is not being kind to him here.

When I was a single guy, myself and my nonserious gf would often get shafted by people who have kids as far as schedule goes. Their reasoning being "I cant approach x, y or z because I know how hard getting child care can be, so why don't you, being single, cover this one?"

I would love to help out, but at some point I begin to work a bit more than I ought to. You know, I get it, child care is expensive. But when you assign shift to residents who can otherwise moonlight so others may save a few bucks with child care, I cannot help but to think I am asked to sacrifice my own financial health (inability to moonlight) so my cohort can benefit (save on childcare). It's fine once or twice, but I do not want to be indirectly supporting your family, especially when I am not being paid back.

Op, hang in there.

 

[CypherA]

I was a single guy for awhile and I recently settle down so I can see both side of the issue.

I think posters who think OP is overeacting is not being kind to him here.

When I was a single guy, myself and my nonserious gf would often get shafted by people who have kids as far as schedule goes. Their reasoning being "I cant approach x, y or z because I know how hard getting child care can be, so why don't you, being single, cover this one?"

I would love to help out, but at some point I begin to work a bit more than I ought to. You know, I get it, child care is expensive. But when you assign shift to residents who can otherwise moonlight so others may save a few bucks with child care, I cannot help but to think I am asked to sacrifice my own financial health (inability to moonlight) so my cohort can benefit (save on childcare). It's fine once or twice, but I do not want to be indirectly supporting your family, especially when I am not being paid back.

Op, hang in there.

I think most posters are empathizing with the OP with respect to the scheduling issues. The main gripe with many here is OP's expectation of his fellow residents to hang out with him after hours. He seems somewhat entitled and oblivious to the lifestyle and needs of residents with families.

With that said, as suggested OP, try branching out to other cohorts or other specialties.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I think most posters are empathizing with the OP with respect to the scheduling issues. The main gripe with many here is OP's expectation of his fellow residents to hang out with him after hours. He seems somewhat entitled and oblivious to the lifestyle and needs of residents with families.

With that said, as suggested OP, try branching out to other cohorts or other specialties.

It wasn't a good fit. Again, when I first got to my insitution, they had a resident's social club that was heavily advertised so I decided to check it out.

Turned out it was overran with children and despite my friendiness and effort to introduce myself, the residents there were not friendly to me and I did not go to the meeting again. I don't think they would welcome my friendship and I even feel like some seemed threatened. (I was definitely not trying to hit on anyone, but my lack of spouse was conscipcious)

Which is fine. I later found that this group was actually founded and until recently only composed of residents' spouses.

Diffeent stroke for different folks. I think a lot of med students don't consider the environment enough. A family oriented resident may feel just as alienated in a residency in NYC full of single partiers.

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Oh well, looks like OP has had a change of heart about this thread which ironically would parallel their residency experience.