Bad Institutional Action

[thehopeisreal]

So my freshman year I did some stupid things. I had an alcohol violation, as well as a theft violation from one of the dining halls on campus. Not making excuses, but a parent was going through bankruptcy and borrowed money from me. I didn't have enough myself and I was going hungry. Stupid decision, and since then I have learned to budget and put away extra cash, and generally feel ashamed of it. I just graduated, am taking a gap year and applying to matriculate in 2018, so I have put some distance between myself and those experiences. My application looks good enough to get me in somewhere but I'm worried these blemishes will hurt me. I understand the alcohol one isn't that big of a deal but I'm worried it will mean more in conjunction with my theft one. Should I be worried?

Edit: accepted MD!

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[gyngyn]

Lying, cheating, stealing or violence (harm to others) are the deal-breakers at my school.

 

[Goro]

I can think of only one person who had a theft IA that was accepted at my school.

Only a long period of exemplary behavior, with positions of responsibility may help you. But always have a Plan B.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

The theft would be a huge red flag unfortunately. Time can help significantly though from what I know.

 

[thehopeisreal]

I can think of only one person who had a theft IA that was accepted at my school.

Only a long period of exemplary behavior, with positions of responsibility may help you. But always have a Plan B.

How long are we talking about?

 

[Goro]

How long are we talking about?

5-10 years

 

[thehopeisreal]

Lying, cheating, stealing or violence (harm to others) are the deal-breakers at my school.

So there's absolutely no explanation that would ever convince your school? Nothing on the applicants record since that time would change your mind?

 

[DameJulie]

I can think of only one person who had a theft IA that was accepted at my school.

Only a long period of exemplary behavior, with positions of responsibility may help you. But always have a Plan B.

Does IA like Academic Probation (low GPA) not seen as the same as the theft ones?

 

[Goro]

Totally different. You can record ER from poor grades by becoming a better student.

Bad ethics are hard to overcome.

Does IA like Academic Probation (low GPA) not seen as the same as the theft ones?

 

[gyngyn]

So there's absolutely no explanation that would ever convince your school? Nothing on the applicants record since that time would change your mind?

I have seen no explanation for theft that was sufficient to convince them, yet.

 

[aformerstudent]

I understand the alcohol one isn't that big of a deal but I'm worried it will mean more in conjunction with my theft one. Should I be worried?

underage? No, not that big of a deal then.

 

[thehopeisreal]

I dont have enough details on the theft IA to form an opinion. Did you steal a Twinkie or break in and steal some multiple cases of food? Give us specific details

It was during business hours, put some food in my back pack and tried to walk out. They called me out on it and I gave up right away.

 

[cactusman]

It was during business hours, put some food in my back pack and tried to walk out. They called me out on it and I gave up right away.

Wait, what? Does your school make you pay for food outside of a meal plan? My school has meal plans and I regularly walk out with a backpack full of apples, multiple ice cream bars, etc., and no one cares.

 

[aformerstudent]

It was during business hours, put some food in my back pack and tried to walk out. They called me out on it and I gave up right away.

LOL

 

[LizzyM]

Wait, what? Does your school make you pay for food outside of a meal plan? My school has meal plans and I regularly walk out with a backpack full of apples, multiple ice cream bars, etc., and no one cares.

Some schools do restrict the meal plan to what you eat in the dining hall during meal times. That's how it was at my school 40 years ago.

@thehopeisreal
Tell your story just as you have, "During my __ year in college, I had to financially help my mother/father who was declaring bankruptcy. I didn't have enough money myself and I was going hungry. During business hours, I put some food from the cafeteria into my backpack and tried to walk out. They called me out on it and I gave up right away. Stupid decision, and since then I have learned to budget and put away extra cash, and generally feel ashamed of it."

 

[Incis0r]

Wait, what? Does your school make you pay for food outside of a meal plan? My school has meal plans and I regularly walk out with a backpack full of apples, multiple ice cream bars, etc., and no one cares.

People who did this at my college would get yelled at by the staff working there, even if they had an unlimited meal plan. Lucky you.

 

[thehopeisreal]

I would add something on a strict or zero tolerance policy on removing food from cafeteria; frankly an IA on this seems overkill.

Our meal plan is a set amount of money to spend for the entire year and the food is way overpriced. You have to buy the meal plan. The counselor that I had to talk to said no one should hire me for at least the next 7 years. I had to pay a small fine. Do you think it would be beneficial to me to wait another year before applying, or is 3-4 years enough time to distance myself from this? I have no violations since Freshman year and I have a strong upward trend in grades showing my growth, for reference. @LizzyM

 

[ChymeofPassion]

The sad thing is that its probably standard in the administrations eyes to give an IA for something like this, but they don't realize how detrimental it can be to someone prospects past undergraduate for something so benign.

 

[Goro]

The sad thing is that its probably standard in the administrations eyes to give an IA for something like this, but they don't realize how detrimental it can be to someone prospects past undergraduate for something so benign.

Actions have consequences.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

Actions have consequences.

Stealing a banana from a university dining hall because I'm starving=wait 5 years before applying to medical school because of an IA? Quite the consequence

 

[cactusman]

Actions have consequences.

I can see how a student wouldn't know this was even against the rules. At my college there's been discussion of adding takeout containers because people taking things out in napkins is wasting paper. Many schools already have containers.

 

[Goro]

That is NOT the school's problem. No one is entitled to a career in Medicine.

Stealing a banana from a university dining hall because I'm starving=wait 5 years before applying to medical school because of an IA? Quite the consequence

 

[Lawpy]

That is NOT the school's problem. No one is entitled to a career in Medicine.

unless they are really rich applicants who can pay their way into medical school with a nice seven figure check

 

[gyngyn]

Stealing a banana from a university dining hall because I'm starving=wait 5 years before applying to medical school because of an IA? Quite the consequence

An IA for stealing will have an effect on OP's outcome.
Saying otherwise is not helpful or true. The degree to which it will affect the outcome will vary depending on circumstances.

 

[RogueBanana]

I can see how a student wouldn't know this was even against the rules. At my college there's been discussion of adding takeout containers because people taking things out in napkins is wasting paper. Many schools already have containers.

Cactus, the OPs dining system (if I am correct) is a credit system. Students still "pay" for food. They don't get unlimited food whilst in the dining hall. So the OP was essentially stealing food.

I assume your school (like my own) has a system where it's unlimited food as long as you eat it in the dining hall. School's like Hofstra and other private colleges make you pay for food with meal plan credits. If you run out of credits you starve. So if the OP was putting food in a backpack, it meant he was hiding it from a cashier, not just walking out of an un-monitored dining hall

 

[mwsapphire]

This really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I understand why stealing is wrong, but OP was starving, for reasons outside of their control.
I mean, I guess it would have been better to transfer to a school where you can commute ( and therefore save a lot of money, and then perhaps food would be more affordable).
I mean, what would any of you have done in this situation?

 

[RogueBanana]

This really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I understand why stealing is wrong, but OP was starving, for reasons outside of their control.
I mean, I guess it would have been better to transfer to a school where you can commute ( and therefore save a lot of money, and then perhaps food would be more affordable).
I mean, what would any of you have done in this situation?

A lot of food banks allow people to walk in and take an emergency food bag. Usually has about 6 to 10,000 cal worth of food, enough to last a few days at least

*edit*

I'm not saying the OP deserved the IA, but I can see how the situation would warrant disciplinary action. But it seems heavy handed by the university to not take the student's financial issues into account.

 

[Toutie]

At UCLA they have a specific carry out policy from the dining halls.

Carry-Out Policy: Everyone eating in the Residential Restaurants may choose ONE of the following options to take with them: one pastry, one ice cream cone, one whole fruit, or two cookies. Please do not take any other food or drinks outside of the restaurant. All other food and drinks should be consumed before leaving the dining area.

UCLA Housing

 

[deleted480308]

A lot of food banks allow people to walk in and take an emergency food bag. Usually has about 6 to 10,000 cal worth of food, enough to last a few days at least

*edit*

I'm not saying the OP deserved the IA, but I can see how the situation would warrant disciplinary action. But it seems heavy handed by the university to not take the student's financial issues into account.

They didn't call the police, I consider their response lenient

 

[aformerstudent]

Is this seriously a thread?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

So my freshman year I did some stupid things. I had an alcohol violation, as well as a theft violation from one of the dining halls on campus. Not making excuses, but a parent was going through bankruptcy and borrowed money from me. I didn't have enough myself and I was going hungry. Stupid decision, and since then I have learned to budget and put away extra cash, and generally feel ashamed of it. I just graduated, am taking a gap year and applying to matriculate in 2018, so I have put some distance between myself and those experiences. My application looks good enough to get me in somewhere but I'm worried these blemishes will hurt me. I understand the alcohol one isn't that big of a deal but I'm worried it will mean more in conjunction with my theft one. Should I be worried?

Stealing food from your school's cafeteria and drinking beer are whatevs in my opinion, but you just saw the replies of people like gyngyn and goro that overreact to everything. Gotta make sure everyone is an obedient robot. EDiT: Let me clarify that I'm not saying Goro/Gyngyn are wrong. They are right that i will be that negative to your application, but you have people like them to thank for it being that way.

My advice is go to your school and find out what they do with IAs. There are schools that delete your record after graduation. I know med schools will tell you to confess to them the way you would a priest, but seriously, if they can't find out, well, you make your choices.

 

[gyngyn]

Stealing food from your school's cafeteria and drinking beer are whatevs in my opinion, but you just saw the replies of people like gyngyn and goro that overreact to everything. Gotta make sure everyone is an obedient robot.

My advice is go to your school and find out what they do with IAs. There are schools that delete your record after graduation. I know med schools will tell you to confess to them the way you would a priest, but seriously, if they can't find out, well, you make your choices.

We are responding honestly to OP's question. It appears that you would prefer a pretty untruth.

It has nothing to do with how I would have decided OP's fate. I am reporting how these IA's are viewed by my committee.

 

[deleted480308]

Many years ago at my UG, when a large corporation took over all food service operations on campus, they filed criminal complaints on multiple students and sued them for damages for a food fight that resulted only in a mess to cleanup (ie no major damage to tables, chairs, windows).

I'm fine with that

 

[altblue]

That is NOT the school's problem. No one is entitled to a career in Medicine.

But consequences generally should be proportionate to the action committed. I don't think taking a banana one is, at least, entitled to eat in a cafeteria should equate to a 5-10 year brake on one's application, which is a disproportionate consequence for a very minor moral transgression. maybe a stern talking to by an RA/official might have been more appropriate.

Had OP stolen some electronics, a more morally questionable action, I would support this more

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

We are responding honestly to OP's question. It appears that you would prefer a pretty untruth.

I never said you weren't honest or suggested to be untruthful, but it's you guys that create this type of reality by being the overreacting types.

But consequences generally should be proportionate to the action committed. I don't think taking a banana one is, at least, entitled to eat in a cafeteria should equate to a 5-10 year brake on one's application, which is a disproportionate consequence for a very minor moral transgression. maybe a stern talking to by an RA/official might have been more appropriate.

Had OP stolen some electronics, a more morally questionable action, I would support this more

Admissions is the only little bit of power that people like Goro get to have, so proportionality or rationality don't matter to them. They get to judge you, which gets the off.

 

[deleted480308]

But consequences generally should be proportionate to the action committed. I don't think taking a banana one is, at least, entitled to eat in a cafeteria should equate to a 5-10 year brake on one's application, which is a disproportionate consequence for a very minor moral transgression. maybe a stern talking to by an RA/official might have been more appropriate.

Had OP stolen some electronics, a more morally questionable action, I would support this more

Then start a med school, they have ten times the applicants they need and you don't think theft is a reasonable filter?

 

[gyngyn]

I never said you weren't honest or suggested to be untruthful, but it's you guys that create this type of reality by being the overreacting types.

I am reporting reality, not creating it.

 

[leonardoson]

I have seen no explanation for theft that was sufficient to convince them, yet.

Curious for my own interests, what about a theft in high-school that has a "getting my life straight" story behind it? Along with 10+ years of jobs, school, volunteering, club leadership positions and a clean record since?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I am reporting reality, not creating it.

And like I said, you are reporting reality. You are, however, creating it if an application of someone that stole a banana years ago is a reason for you to dismiss the entirety of their application.

 

[mwsapphire]

Then start a med school, they have ten times the applicants they need and you don't think theft is a reasonable filter?

Stealing b/c you're hungry is not the same thing as stealing, say, a laptop. This is putting OP at a disadvantage for circumstance outside their control. I almost think you're being sarcastic.

 

[gyngyn]

And like I said, you are reporting reality. You are, however, creating it if an application of someone that stole a banana years ago is a reason for you to dismiss the entirety of their application.

To clarify, OP asked what the likely result of this IA would be.
I have reported it.
It has nothing to do with my opinion.
I do not have the power to dismiss his application.
I can only report the result of similar applications at my school (which is what he asked in his post).

 

[787593]

Wait, what? Does your school make you pay for food outside of a meal plan? My school has meal plans and I regularly walk out with a backpack full of apples, multiple ice cream bars, etc., and no one cares.

Same! Haha

 

[Lawpy]

Many years ago at my UG, when a large corporation took over all food service operations on campus, they filed criminal complaints on multiple students and sued them for damages for a food fight that resulted only in a mess to cleanup (ie no major damage to tables, chairs, windows).

I'm fine with that

Curious for my own interests, what about a theft in high-school that has a "getting my life straight" story behind it? Along with 10+ years of jobs, school, volunteering, club leadership positions and a clean record since?

This is interesting. What if someone stole a lot of electronics in high school and yet came out clean in college with no IA's and no bad records... assuming good stats, good ECs, good narrative etc. would this applicant be slammed for stealing in high school?

 

[deleted480308]

Stealing b/c you're hungry is not the same thing as stealing, say, a laptop. This is putting OP at a disadvantage for circumstance outside their control. I almost think you're being sarcastic.

We are at all times responsible for our decisions. I am not being sarcastic

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

To clarify, OP asked what the likely result of this IA would be.
I have reported it.
It has nothing to do with my opinion.
I do not have the power to dismiss his application.
I can only report the result of similar applications at my school.

Nothing to clarify. We already agreed to those things. However, you could have the power to dismiss his application if it falls on your lap, and by the sound of it, it seems you do think it's legit reason for it to impact him negatively. Correct me if I'm wrong. Please tell me if you'd get an application of someone that stole a banana like OP and persuade your colleagues in admissions not to hold it against him.

 

[Goro]

Where exactly have gyngyn and I stated that we would rule negatively against the OP? We're not making the news, merely reporting it.

Ad hominum attacks do not help your point, either, only weaken them. You will be judged by people for the rest of your clinical career as well. It's mine and gyngyn 's job to judge, too.

I never said you weren't honest or suggested to be untruthful, but it's you guys that create this type of reality by being the overreacting types.


Admissions is the only little bit of power that people like Goro get to have, so proportionality or rationality don't matter to them. They get to judge you, which gets the off.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm fine with that

You're okay with people having criminal records over food fights?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Where exactly have gyngyn and I stated that we would rule negatively against the OP? We're not making the news, merely reporting it.

Would you rule negatively against OP? Just give us a straight answer for once.

 

[deleted480308]

You're okay with people having criminal records over food fights?

Yes. You don't get to damage people's property. These are adults, not 4 yr olds.

 

[gyngyn]

Nothing to clarify. We already agreed to those things. However, you could have the power to dismiss his application if it falls on your lap, and by the sound of it, it seems you do think it's legit reason for it to impact him negatively. Correct me if I'm wrong. Please tell me if you'd get an application of someone that stole a banana like OP and persuade your colleagues in admissions not to hold it against him.

I have given no indication of how I would handle OP's situation, nor does it matter.
It only matters that I give an accurate reflection of the outcome of similar IA's in our committee.