Away rotations / Step 2 plan

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Bobcat18

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Taking step 2 after submitting ERAS definitely won't hurt you given how well you did on step 1. Keep in mind that you can do an away rotation/sub-I while you submit ERAS, because there is around a month delay between when you can submit and when programs can download your application (so you might be able to fit in an additional rotation if that's something you want to do).

Also keep in mind that away rotations can be risky. It's a lot easier to look bad than it is to look good when you're surrounded by people that know a lot more than you do. They can pay off though--I did an away rotation at my top choice and matched there. But I did another one where things didn't go as well (because of things that were out of my control).
 
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Yeah, I would reconsider the aways.

Despite the conventional wisdom in the DO world, its not required and may even be a bad idea in the MD world.

Your Step 1 score will open doors; an away may tarnish that shine.
 
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Yeah, I would reconsider the aways.

Despite the conventional wisdom in the DO world, its not required and may even be a bad idea in the MD world.

Your Step 1 score will open doors; an away may tarnish that shine.


hi! regarding interviews during aways....I have an interview that I had to schedule during my away rotation (had a commitment on their first interview date). Is this something that is frowned upon? I am trying to match at my away rotation program and the interview date is a thurs/fri. I would be more than happy to work the weekend on Saturday/Sunday or just work 30 days straight haha whatever they think is appropriate to cover for days gone.
 
hi! regarding interviews during aways....I have an interview that I had to schedule during my away rotation (had a commitment on their first interview date). Is this something that is frowned upon? I am trying to match at my away rotation program and the interview date is a thurs/fri. I would be more than happy to work the weekend on Saturday/Sunday or just work 30 days straight haha whatever they think is appropriate to cover for days gone.
Well, if you're there doing an away to try and impress them, it doesn't say much for missing days to interview elsewhere.

We cannot answer your questions as to what you have to do. What's done is done; you need to approach the Chief resident/PD when you're there and see how they want to handle it.
 
Well, if you're there doing an away to try and impress them, it doesn't say much for missing days to interview elsewhere.

We cannot answer your questions as to what you have to do. What's done is done; you need to approach the Chief resident/PD when you're there and see how they want to handle it.

Wait hold on. Yes, the away is to impress them, but they gave me the away in the middle of interview season. No program can reasonably expect someone to just not interview at any other program when the student isn't even guaranteed an interview at theirs. ALSO WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD DENY AN INTERVIEW DATE ANYWHERE AT THIS POINT IN THE CYCLE.

I will talk to the chief as you mentioned, but your first statement literally made me scratch my head.
 
Yeah, I would reconsider the aways.

Despite the conventional wisdom in the DO world, its not required and may even be a bad idea in the MD world.

Your Step 1 score will open doors; an away may tarnish that shine.

The core question is "Do you look better on paper or in person?"
With a very strong Step 1 score, that tilts toward the "better on paper" position. On the other hand, if you're competent and likeable, that can help you net a match above what your paper qualifications would normally support.
 
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Wait hold on. Yes, the away is to impress them, but they gave me the away in the middle of interview season. No program can reasonably expect someone to just not interview at any other program when the student isn't even guaranteed an interview at theirs. ALSO WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD DENY AN INTERVIEW DATE ANYWHERE AT THIS POINT IN THE CYCLE.

I will talk to the chief as you mentioned, but your first statement literally made me scratch my head.
You need to re-read my post.

I never said they they should expect you to not interview elsewhere nor did I tell you not to interview elsewhere.

I am just implying that you made a tactical error; aways are usually done before interview season. If they didn't have an opening, then so be it. Obviously you need to interview elsewhere but leaving an away rotation where you hope to match to interview elsewhere needs to be handled delicately. You should go on the interview but you shouldn't assume that its not a big deal. It might not be, or they might be bothered by it.
 
You need to re-read my post.

I never said they they should expect you to not interview elsewhere nor did I tell you not to interview elsewhere.

I am just implying that you made a tactical error; aways are usually done before interview season. If they didn't have an opening, then so be it. Obviously you need to interview elsewhere but leaving an away rotation where you hope to match to interview elsewhere needs to be handled delicately. You should go on the interview but you shouldn't assume that its not a big deal. It might not be, or they might be bothered by it.

Half my class is on aways in oct and nov....That's just how our 4th year schedule works out...
 
Half my class is on aways in oct and nov....That's just how our 4th year schedule works out...
Then your school needs to think about its process for aways.

The purpose of the aways is usually to see a program close up, decide if you wish to apply and/or match there, and possibly get an LOR. Doing them in October and November doesn't meet those goals.
 
Since I cannot see OP's post (edited/deleted), am wondering your thought process on this. Current 3rd year... I consider myself a fairly competitive DO applicant -- 265 step 1 (740+ COMLEX if that even matters), research with potential for multiple papers in two separate GS subspecialties, and strong letters so far.

My goal is to end up at a powerhouse academic center, and am willing to apply extremely broadly (especially to "reaches" and places that shun DOs). Should I not be doing aways at these very competitive programs to try and prove myself? Should I do aways at all? Any insight would be very much appreciated.
The thought process is that if you "look good on paper" (see @DokterMom 's post above), then you will only harm yourself with an away. A month is a long time to rotate and its easy to make a glaring mistake or rub someone the wrong way during that month which is why we generally don't recommend them for MD programs. I have no idea about DO programs so cannot comment on those.

If you are someone with average to below average scores ("paper") but you are very personable, easy to like, hard working etc. an away may help you as it allows a program to see you beyond the application.
 
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Then your school needs to think about its process for aways.

The purpose of the aways is usually to see a program close up, decide if you wish to apply and/or match there, and possibly get an LOR. Doing them in October and November doesn't meet those goals.

Yea, agreed. Would be nice to have a cushion where we can do aways and not have to worry about interviews. I called my program coordinators at the 2 places I'm doing aways at and they told me that it is typical that students have interviews during their aways in Oct/Nov and not to worry at all! In case any other students are worried about the same issue.
 
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Appreciate the response. I would only be applying to MD programs. Is there a thought that regardless of looking good on paper, DO students need to prove themselves via away rotations and show they don't believe in the voodoo that DO schools teach?

I look at the residency rosters of many top programs and notice there are absolutely zero DOs at any of these programs.

The thought process is that if you "look good on paper" (see @DokterMom 's post above), then you will only harm yourself with an away. A month is a long time to rotate and its easy to make a glaring mistake or rub someone the wrong way during that month which is why we generally don't recommend them for MD programs. I have no idea about DO programs so cannot comment on those.

If you are someone with average to below average scores ("paper") but you are very personable, easy to like, hard working etc. an away may help you as it allows a program to see you beyond the application.

For a program that will not consider you based on your "paper" credentials (in your case, potentially just for being a DO), then doing an away there probably can't hurt your chances (if they wouldn't consider a DO), so in that sense, can only potentially help. But it may also be a completely wasted opportunity unless you're visibly more brilliant and also more personable than their equally anxious-to-please MD students. After all, someone's gotta be the first DO they accept -- But do you really want to invest all of your time on a potential spot that is low odds because they discriminate against your degree? (Some places just do. Gotta thin the herd and that's a simple filter.)

If you've already lined up your rotations, then it's water under the bridge. If not, I'd suggest you aim for something that's possible (they've taken a DO before or said they would consider one), but aspirational for a DO. With such high stats, you're likely to get your pick of DO spots and have a good shot for the many MD programs that don'f discriminate.

But if you play the prestige game ("I prefer upper tier MD only"), don't be surprised if you get burned by the same ("We prefer applicants from upper tier MD only")
 
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Appreciate the response. I would only be applying to MD programs. Is there a thought that regardless of looking good on paper, DO students need to prove themselves via away rotations and show they don't believe in the voodoo that DO schools teach?

I look at the residency rosters of many top programs and notice there are absolutely zero DOs at any of these programs.

That is true.

Some MD programs pride themselves on taking no to few DOs. I know mine did and it wasn't even top tier.

As for doing a rotation and "showing them", again its a double edged sword. You do poorly and you've proven the reason they don't take DOs. You are also unlikely to shine so brightly that you are going to turn well entrenched biases on their head. I think it would be a waste of your valuable elective time to do it at a program that isn't interested in you and your degree.
 
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Yea, agreed. Would be nice to have a cushion where we can do aways and not have to worry about interviews. I called my program coordinators at the 2 places I'm doing aways at and they told me that it is typical that students have interviews during their aways in Oct/Nov and not to worry at all! In case any other students are worried about the same issue.
Many programs will interview the students doing away rotations with them.

Whether this is a "courtesy"(ie, they interview everyone doing a rotation with them) or not remains to be seen.

But water under the bridge at this point.
 
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Many programs will interview the students doing away rotations with them.

Whether this is a "courtesy"(ie, they interview everyone doing a rotation with them) or not remains to be seen.

But water under the bridge at this point.

Hope I get an interview! Their dates are all during or after my away.
 
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Appreciate the response. I would only be applying to MD programs. Is there a thought that regardless of looking good on paper, DO students need to prove themselves via away rotations and show they don't believe in the voodoo that DO schools teach?

I look at the residency rosters of many top programs and notice there are absolutely zero DOs at any of these programs.

The cult of Still is not the cause of the prejudice against DO grads. It's the poor education in the clinical years.

For my students, away rotations *seem* to work, because each year my school sends people to ACGME residencies that have never had a DO grad before. Now, whether this is a trend, or they're simply Lotto winners, is still unknown to me. But the cautionary advice in this thread should be considered very carefully.
 
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