Hey guys, i am planning on applying to the six year program from canada and i am wondering if they weigh science marks more than other marks. I have a 93% in biology, 90% in chemistry, 90% physics, but 75% in advanced functions and about a 74% in english. I am currently doing my co-op at the ottawa Heart institute so i think that would look good on my application. What are my chances of being accepted? i am in grade 11 at the moment and i know the application for the fall of 2018 starts late july and ends late november, so do i apply with my grade 11 marks? Please help.
Atlantic Bridge From high school
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I think they consider all marks equally. Med applications typically open the summer before your intended year of matriculation, so you would apply with Grade 11 marks and, if possible, supply Grade 12 predicted marks or something like that. It would be best to check with the agency.
However, I would highly recommend applying to Canadian schools first before looking abroad. An undergrad would give you the time to further develop your skills and commitment to medicine or make you realize that you don't really want to be a doctor. It's also harder for international medical graduates to secure a spot in Canada/US for residency and there's no backup option in Ireland if you fail to do so. The nightmare scenario here is that you graduate, have no residency, and are 200k+ in debt.
I'm Canadian as well and believe me, I know how competitive it is to get into med school in Canada. Compared to the US, where roughly half of applicants get in with a wide range of GPAs and MCATs, only 10-20% of applicants matriculate in Canada (and these are usually the top GPAs/MCATs). But I think you should try at least once in Canada and/or the US before looking abroad.
I myself am going to the UK for med school this September, after two unsuccessful cycles in the US and Canada. However, I'm doing this fully aware that I may not match back here and may have to remain in the UK at least until my training is complete and I don't mind.
Essentially, there's a lot to know if you're going abroad - I recommend that you read some more posts on this forum, research the residency process some more, etc. Feel free to ask me anything as I've been looking into this for some time now.
If, after all that, you still want to go to Ireland right out of high school, then as for your chances:
- Check if there are any minimum marks that the schools want as the 74% in English might be too low. Most med school requirements that I've seen (and I've looked at a lot, believe me), want English marks to be as high as science ones usually.
- Do you have any other medically-relevant experience? It's always nice to do more and show that you care and understand the medical profession.
- Beyond marks and experiences, your writing ability is key here. The crux of your application depends on how well you can write about yourself, your desire to do medicine, and what you have learned from your experiences.
- You'll also need a reference. Good references can really help; start thinking of teachers who you could possibly ask a reference from (ideally, they know you well enough to comment on your abilities and personality).
However, I would highly recommend applying to Canadian schools first before looking abroad. An undergrad would give you the time to further develop your skills and commitment to medicine or make you realize that you don't really want to be a doctor. It's also harder for international medical graduates to secure a spot in Canada/US for residency and there's no backup option in Ireland if you fail to do so. The nightmare scenario here is that you graduate, have no residency, and are 200k+ in debt.
I'm Canadian as well and believe me, I know how competitive it is to get into med school in Canada. Compared to the US, where roughly half of applicants get in with a wide range of GPAs and MCATs, only 10-20% of applicants matriculate in Canada (and these are usually the top GPAs/MCATs). But I think you should try at least once in Canada and/or the US before looking abroad.
I myself am going to the UK for med school this September, after two unsuccessful cycles in the US and Canada. However, I'm doing this fully aware that I may not match back here and may have to remain in the UK at least until my training is complete and I don't mind.
Essentially, there's a lot to know if you're going abroad - I recommend that you read some more posts on this forum, research the residency process some more, etc. Feel free to ask me anything as I've been looking into this for some time now.
If, after all that, you still want to go to Ireland right out of high school, then as for your chances:
- Check if there are any minimum marks that the schools want as the 74% in English might be too low. Most med school requirements that I've seen (and I've looked at a lot, believe me), want English marks to be as high as science ones usually.
- Do you have any other medically-relevant experience? It's always nice to do more and show that you care and understand the medical profession.
- Beyond marks and experiences, your writing ability is key here. The crux of your application depends on how well you can write about yourself, your desire to do medicine, and what you have learned from your experiences.
- You'll also need a reference. Good references can really help; start thinking of teachers who you could possibly ask a reference from (ideally, they know you well enough to comment on your abilities and personality).
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Hi Tcheeb! Like Neuralgal said going abroad for medicine is a big decision, but for some people it is absolutely a great fit! So, if after considering the pros and cons of going abroad for medicine you decide to apply here's another interesting program aimed at Canadian High School students that I came across during my reasearch. It's in Scotland; students earn a BSc (Honours) Medicine from the University of St Andrews (first 3 years), and graduate with Bachelors of Medicine and Surgery (MB ChB) from the University of Edinburgh (last 3 years). What is unique about this program is they have an association with the Universtiy of Alberta, and all students do 16 weeks of clerkship in Edmonton during the later stages of their MB ChB training.
As for GPA requirements:
Best of luck with whatever path you decide to pursue!
As for GPA requirements:
- An applicant with an average of over 85% in grade 11 will be considered. However, conditions of offer would include a minimum of 85% overall in Year 12 with higher grades in 3 specified subjects, to include Chemistry and one other science (Biology, Mathematics or Physics). And it looks like they would prefer 90% in grade 12 chemistry.
Best of luck with whatever path you decide to pursue!
Thank you so much for your reply. I have been weighing the pros and cons for the past month and i think ill be going abroad.
I believe i am good writer (my writing in this forum may not reflect that) and i got an 87% in English last year but my current English teacher is know to be unfair at marking and even the most intelligent kids in my class received around an 82%.
I am doing my CO-OP at the Ottawa Heart Institute, it's pretty much a hospital just for treating people's hearts, so i think that's medically-relevant.
Do you have any tips on getting a reference letter? There is only one science teacher that comes to mind that i think would be willing to write me a reference and one person from the Ottawa heart institute.
Is there a 6 year program in the U.K similar to Ireland? How do you apply? Is there a better chance of practicing back home or it gives me the option of practicing in the U.K (which i am fine with)? Can you please link me to the program? Thanks again.
Thanks for the reply and recommendation. Would studying abroad in Scotland give me a better chance of matching back in Canada?
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I believe it's a newer program, so I'm not sure if match rates are available. I also don't think you can say it gives you a "better" chance of matching back to Canada. What I thought was particularly good about this program though was that you are garunteed 16 weeks in Edmonton. This is your opportunity to become familiar with the Canadian Health care system and to make connections with physicians who can provide you letters of recommendation for residency or may even be involved with interviewing you for residency, depending on the curumstances. I think with many of the other schools you are responsible for arranging your own electives back in Canada, so having some of this done for you may be advantageous. I work with many IMGs, currently doing their residency, and what they have told me, is in order to match back it's a huge advantage to do clerkships in Canada, get experience in the Canadian system, and make connections with physicians here in Canada. All that being said, as it seems you are aware, it's a tough road. So do your reasearch, weigh the pros and cons and pick the program that best suits you
I believe it's a newer program, so I'm not sure if match rates are available. I also don't think you can say it gives you a "better" chance of matching back to Canada. What I thought was particularly good about this program though was that you are garunteed 16 weeks in Edmonton. This is your opportunity to become familiar with the Canadian Health care system and to make connections with physicians who can provide you letters of recommendation for residency or may even be involved with interviewing you for residency, depending on the curumstances. I think with many of the other schools you are responsible for arranging your own electives back in Canada, so having some of this done for you may be advantageous. I work with many IMGs, currently doing their residency, and what they have told me, is in order to match back it's a huge advantage to do clerkships in Canada, get experience in the Canadian system, and make connections with physicians here in Canada. All that being said, as it seems you are aware, it's a tough road. So do your reasearch, weigh the pros and cons and pick the program that best suits you
Wow! thank you so much for this recommendation. I think i am going to apply to go to scotland, although the application process isn't straight forward. How do you work with IMGs exactly?
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Good luck and make sure wherever you apply you have done due diligence in reasearching the program. I just thought people should be aware of Scotland as an option not saying it's better than Ireland
I work in a large medical teaching hospital so there are many different health care professionals there from different backgrounds.I meant gaining additional experience beyond the Ottawa Heart Institute - so volunteering in care homes or with a national health charity for example. Given your age, I realize this may not be possible as most places have an age requirement, but it's something to look into if you have the time. More experience is always better.
Pick someone for your reference who knows you quite well and is preferably a teacher in a science subject. You can either talk to them in person or send them an email. Be polite and professional in your approach to them; the email could go somewhere along these lines (I've only ever asked uni profs so this may be too formal):
"Hello Mr./Ms. X,
My name is Tcheeb and I was in your Y class last year. I am emailing you today to ask if you would be able to write me a letter of recommendation for medical school. The letter would address ______ (see if Atlantic Bridge has any requirements on what the letters must include) and would be due ____ (ask your letter writer early and set the due date 2 weeks early because people forget and late letters suck).
Going to medical school has long been a dream of mine. In school, I've done x, y, and z to develop my a, b, c skills. I've also done well academically (highlight relevant marks here). In the community, I've volunteered at the Ottawa Heart Institute, where I did ____, allowing me to learn more about the medical profession/gain x skills or knowledge/enforce my commitment to medicine and becoming a physician.
Please do let me know if you would like to meet to discuss this further or if you would like me to send any more information. I look forward to hearing from you!
Regards,
Tcheeb"
You can modify this basic template for the contact at the Ottawa Heart Institute if you would like to ask them as well. I think you typically need more than 1 letter.
There are a few 6 year programs and a lot of 5 year programs in the UK that take students straight out of high school. 5 years is more typical. I picked the UK because out of all the international schools, only the UK lets you stay and complete your post-graduate training there as an international. However, you must have graduated from a UK school to apply. Internationals graduating from Ireland, etc. will not be able to do so. I also picked the UK because the schools tend to have a better reputation globally (pure vanity on my part). There are varying requirements for each school so take a look and see which ones you are eligible to apply to. The UK system is different in that you can only pick 4 schools to apply to, so play to your strengths. There are two private schools as well that you can make a separate application to (total 6). The UK does require an entry test - either the UKCAT which is an aptitude test or the BMAT which is a science/math test. If you do only one test, you can only apply to the schools that use that test; ex. if you only did the UKCAT, you couldn't apply to BMAT universities.
As Martin_2017 said, the St. Andrews program is geared towards Canadian but it isn't one of the programs that allows you to stay in the UK afterwards. You need to do a standard UK medical course to be eligible to remain. SGUL INTO (bit sketchy) is another one like that. Compared to Ireland, the only downside of UK schools is that the courses you take will be geared towards those training in the UK. You'll need to study for all of the residency entrance exams on your own.
Thank you so much for your detailed response! i truly appreciate it. how many reference letters should i have? will two be sufficient? I have a reference letter from my grade 10 history teacher, would i be able to use it? my history teacher wrote about how i am confident, used out side the box thinking, creative analyzing, and how i use constructive criticism to improve myself. i could ask him to modify it a bit.
Check the requirements for wherever you're interested - the standard is 2 academic and 1 non-academic. UK schools only need 1 from a teacher.
Sure, that letter sounds fine. He'll probably just need to modify the date so it's a current letter (as in, he wrote it in 2017).
Sorry for asking a lot of questions, but could you link me to a few of the U.K universities that allow you to practice in the United.K after graduating? Thanks again.
The course code for medicine in the UK is A100 (5/6 year courses) and A101/A102 (4 year, graduate entry courses). Any A100 course you apply to will let you practice in the UK. There is also reciprocity between Canada and the UK; if you stay in the UK and do family medicine, it's easier for you to come back to Canada. If you do something else (like surgery), Canada will recognize your training but you'll have to write several qualifying exams before you're allowed to practice medicine in Canada (just get a license, not a job).
The Scottish program and the SGUL-INTO, while you're eligible to apply for those, you can't stay and practice in the UK if you do them. However, the courses do offer the added benefit of incorporating USMLE teachings so that you're better prepared for residency applications to the US.
The application for UK medical schools is due on October 15th through UCAS.
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To be honest with you, do undergrad in Canada and see where you go from there. I know it seems tempting to be done medical school in 5 years with 90%+ in high school but think about the big picture if you truly want to come back to Canada. You'll be at least $250,000 in debt and residency in the USA and Canada is not guaranteed for IMGs. Unless you have access to EU citizenship which would allow you first picks in the Irish system or go over to the UK as you wanted, I would stay in Canada to do undergrad and then try my luck with Canadian or American schools.
Come to Ireland only if you have no other option and are backed into a corner. Trust me, you'll need to work hard to get back to North America once you come (you'll need to do EE and NAC OSCE on top of Step I and Step II and make as many connections as you can in hospitals in Canada). Don't get me wrong it is doable but much more difficult than if you wait and see. You'll be more mature for it.
Come to Ireland only if you have no other option and are backed into a corner. Trust me, you'll need to work hard to get back to North America once you come (you'll need to do EE and NAC OSCE on top of Step I and Step II and make as many connections as you can in hospitals in Canada). Don't get me wrong it is doable but much more difficult than if you wait and see. You'll be more mature for it.
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No.
Staying in Canada is the only thing that will 'help' your chances
So what if you decide in 4 years that you want to be a surgeon? Or maybe a dermatologist? Too bad-as an IMG (any, IMG) you'll be crossing your fingers and HOPING for a family medicine spot. There's ~20-30% chance (2017) that you will get a spot in Canada, the rest will go to the US and deal wit Visa restrictions, limitations on geography (embrace the rural) and of course, massive restrictions on specialty. You are giving up a HUGE portion of the flexibilty and most of the opportunities you get with an MD from Canada/US
I say this based on the number of people I knew who got excited about this 'fast track' to med school and left high school feeling pretty fantastic about themselves. Now, 6 years later, 2/5 I knew who did this finished, none got residency in Canada, and ended up in rural US family med. 2 dropped out and got a undergrad in Canada, now applying to med school here (realizing that it was still a better option than getting a international med degree). The last didn't match anywhere
