Ask the Program Coordinator!

[Mountaineer12]

So I have a slightly silly, but also slightly alarming situation. Earlier I sent out thank you emails and accidentally said thanks for my interview on Wednesday and of course today is Wednesday. I meant to say Monday. I said Wednesday in three different emails, but the emails were all slightly different and not copy and pasted. I'm assuming I should just leave it, but I just wanted to make sure I shouldn't do damage control and send another email saying "oh silly me, I meant Monday obviously!" This whole interview business is so stressful!


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[Lostin_space]

I like how she creates fake stories about "you're so hot and how does she get to have everything?" I've met attractive women and they never brag about it on ERAS ask a PC thread. I guess they are just modest. You are that hot though. I understand. This is an above and beyond exceptional case of hotness.




Stop dropping the ball. You're a total hack.

Not surprised ...

 

[mcl]

So I have a slightly silly, but also slightly alarming situation. Earlier I sent out thank you emails and accidentally said thanks for my interview on Wednesday and of course today is Wednesday. I meant to say Monday. I said Wednesday in three different emails, but the emails were all slightly different and not copy and pasted. I'm assuming I should just leave it, but I just wanted to make sure I shouldn't do damage control and send another email saying "oh silly me, I meant Monday obviously!" This whole interview business is so stressful!

Definitely not worth stressing over.

 

[Mountaineer12]

Definitely not worth stressing over.

I figured, thanks!


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[killerleaf]

Regarding the "why won't they answer me" question: I received your email, I opened your email, I read your email. I then deleted your email. Why? Because the answers to your questions are on our website. Or thru FREIDA. Or both. And possibly, you were the 50th email of the day with the exact same questions.

There was a time that I might have answered your questions. However, the longer I am in this job, the more amazed I am by people who do not even look for an answer themselves. Please check the website, and all your other resources, before bugging me for answers. PLEASE!!

 

[Lostin_space]

Regarding the "why won't they answer me" question: I received your email, I opened your email, I read your email. I then deleted your email. Why? Because the answers to your questions are on our website. Or thru FREIDA. Or both. And possibly, you were the 50th email of the day with the exact same questions.

There was a time that I might have answered your questions. However, the longer I am in this job, the more amazed I am by people who do not even look for an answer themselves. Please check the website, and all your other resources, before bugging me for answers. PLEASE!!

Bugging you? That's your job! I am on a rotation where I see over 30 patients a day, it's my job to answer their questions even if hey are repetitive. That's a really poor attitude to have

 

[unleash500]

Bugging you? That's your job! I am on a rotation where I see over 30 patients a day, it's my job to answer their questions even if hey are repetitive. That's a really poor attitude to have

I think they have every right to not respond . I don't think their job description says to respond to every asinine email especially if the info is posted on their website.

 

[Lostin_space]

I think they have every right to not respond . I don't think their job description says to respond to every asinine email especially if the info is posted on their website.

If the feel bugged by questions they should not be a coordinator

 

[killerleaf]

Actually, I am amazed that intelligent people who wish to pursue a career in medicine think that it is appropriate to email someone with questions when the answers are quickly answered with a modicum of research. The same people that seem to be glued to their phones, with all of capabilities of today's technologies; yet they cannot look at a website for their questions?

 

[mcl]

If the feel bugged by questions they should not be a coordinator

I think the selection process is working perfectly: an applicant who wouldn't be happy at a program they don't feel is responsive enough, and a program that doesn't want a resident/fellow who isn't willing to do at least a cursory search for publicly-available information that would answer basic questions. Everyone wins!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I think the selection process is working perfectly: an applicant who wouldn't be happy at a program they don't feel is responsive enough, and a program that doesn't want a resident/fellow who isn't willing to do at least a cursory search for publicly-available information that would answer basic questions. Everyone wins!

 

[purpleortholady]

I just hope a certain someone doesn't kill this beautiful thread for us. There are those of us constantly watching the thread for very useful, very important info, but for almost three pages now, it's been focused on only one person's ego.

 

[Frederica]

And i'm sorry but if someone is a coordinator they should reply.

I find this post to be so completely arrogant that I would not blame the coordinator for not responding to your email. Especially if you took the same tone in that email that you did in this post.

You have no earthly idea what that coordinator is dealing with and to think that they should answer your email when they likely have higher priority emails to deal with shows a complete lack of respect.

I hope you show a lot more compassion to your patients than you have to this coordinator.

 

[Bancrofti]

When cancelling an interview, keep it short and sweet and avoid any explanation, or should I provide any info as to why I'm cancelling?

I had to do one before and kept it short and sweet, but I just accepted one early yesterday and already have to cancel it as an interview offer I didn't think I was going to get ended up coming in later during the day. Do they care at all? Or are PCs just happy we let them know relatively early?

 

[mcl]

When cancelling an interview, keep it short and sweet and avoid any explanation, or should I provide any info as to why I'm cancelling?

I had to do one before and kept it short and sweet, but I just accepted one early yesterday and already have to cancel it as an interview offer I didn't think I was going to get ended up coming in later during the day. Do they care at all? Or are PCs just happy we let them know relatively early?

The latter. I don't need to know why you aren't coming--just that you aren't so I can start contacting the people on the Wait List.

 

[gutonc]

The latter. I don't need to know why you aren't coming--just that you aren't so I can start contacting the people on the Wait List.

What s/he said.

You're not hurting anybody's feelings by canceling. And PCs have about a thousand other emails to read today, they don't want to have to sift through 3 paragraphs of BS to get to the "I'm canceling my interview" at the end.

 

[stevesteve123]

can someone who's been on the other side please explain how a program's rank list is generated?
also specifically why everyone so vehemently denies that having later interviews/sending thank you cards (which implicitly helps people remember you) does NOT affect your rank on the list? especially for programs that does their list at the end of the season

thanks

 

[killerleaf]

When cancelling an interview, keep it short and sweet and avoid any explanation, or should I provide any info as to why I'm cancelling?

I had to do one before and kept it short and sweet, but I just accepted one early yesterday and already have to cancel it as an interview offer I didn't think I was going to get ended up coming in later during the day. Do they care at all? Or are PCs just happy we let them know relatively early?

Short and sweet is nice; also, let me know if you are interested (or not) in scheduling another date. Because if you do not let me know, then I will email you back, asking if another date will better suit. We can both save time if you let me know at the start, which I really appreciate.

 

[mcl]

Short and sweet is nice; also, let me know if you are interested (or not) in scheduling another date. Because if you do not let me know, then I will email you back, asking if another date will better suit. We can both save time if you let me know at the start, which I really appreciate.

Do the applicants ever select another date and really come? My experience has been that applicants who are still interested in visiting the program will ask about availability for another date rather than go straight to cancellation. Those that cancel aren't interested anymore for whatever reason.

 

[killerleaf]

My experience (averaged over the last few years) has been 50% will reschedule when presented with additional dates. So far this year, it is running little higher; about 60% so far. Or, maybe I am just getting lucky this year!!

 

[Bancrofti]

Short and sweet is nice; also, let me know if you are interested (or not) in scheduling another date. Because if you do not let me know, then I will email you back, asking if another date will better suit. We can both save time if you let me know at the start, which I really appreciate.

I definitely would have asked for a different date, but I'm fairly certain because of what I'm applying to that everything will be full. I also feel that if I was a PD, cancelling an interview would automatically drop that person to the bottom of my list, even if they rescheduled. To me, it would show me that another program is your priority, even though it's possible rescheduling just allows you to attend two as opposed to 1. So to me, I rather not bother, and actually put in my email that I hope that I'm letting them know early enough so that they could offer that spot to another student.

 

[gutonc]

I definitely would have asked for a different date, but I'm fairly certain because of what I'm applying to that everything will be full. I also feel that if I was a PD, cancelling an interview would automatically drop that person to the bottom of my list, even if they rescheduled. To me, it would show me that another program is your priority, even though it's possible rescheduling just allows you to attend two as opposed to 1. So to me, I rather not bother, and actually put in my email that I hope that I'm letting them know early enough so that they could offer that spot to another student.

With the exception of very small/competitive fields/programs, the PD will be completely unaware of how/when you scheduled your interview. Canceling an interview you know you don't want is the right thing to do...fo shizzle.

But programs understand scheduling issues and you've got nothing to lose by trying to reschedule if you really want to keep that place.

 

[AdmiralChz]

can someone who's been on the other side please explain how a program's rank list is generated?

I sat on our committee last year and doing it again this year as a resident for a larger anesthesiology program. There is no easy way to answer this, because there are a bazillion ways to rank people. For us, we sit down after each interview day and go over each applicant in a pretty comprehensive way going over scores, grades, LORs and interview impressions (probably the most important and hardest to quantify aspect) and we put them into 4 categories we affectionately call "absolutely" "well, maybe" "eh, probably not" and "no way" (e.g. doesn't get ranked). The number in each category totally depends on the applicants that come through. There is some room for movement after this (especially towards the end), but it is at the discretion of the PC/PD. Final ranking felt pretty arbitrary (but mostly within our categories we previously decided upon), and our PD had final say over specific spots but we didn't have any head-scratchers (if we didn't like you initially, you weren't getting in our "absolutely" group) that I could tell. I didn't see any clandestine back alley sorts of deals with phone calls and lofty nudges, but I didn't exactly scrutinize our final entered list.

also specifically why everyone so vehemently denies that having later interviews/sending thank you cards (which implicitly helps people remember you) does NOT affect your rank on the list? especially for programs that does their list at the end of the season

Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself of something here, which is fine. For our program, date of interview absolutely does not affect your rank on the list - we rotate people in and out of our interview days to avoid fatigue. This might be hard for a smaller program, but is easy for a large department like Anesthesiology (or IM, Peds, etc...).

I personally was raised to write thank yous, but trust me that literally >75% of applicants do so and when our department interviews ~ 200 people a year they absolutely get lost in the shuffle. They are absolutely a nice a gesture and a marker of good manners, but we don't sit down consulting our list saying "where is SteveSteve's thank you letter!!!" A friend of mine in medical school used to argue that sending thank you e-mails actually opened the door for a response from an interviewer and could create a dialogue. I found this helped during fellowship applications, but that is a much, much smaller applicant pool.

 

[stevesteve123]

I sat on our committee last year and doing it again this year as a resident for a larger anesthesiology program. There is no easy way to answer this, because there are a bazillion ways to rank people. For us, we sit down after each inical school used to argue that sending thank you e-mails actually opened the door for a response from an interviewer and could create a dialogue. I found this helped during fellowship applications, but that is a much, much smaller applicant pool.

thanks!

pretty enlightening comments Re: the whole process. Only puzzling part is how the interview impression (being so subjective) is translated to objective metrics (#1 vs #10 on list). I'm thinking most places have categorical grades that the interviewer can choose from (highly rec, rec, meh, do-not-want..etc) and that the comments they write during the actual interview are pretty much moot?

also, pretty shocked to hear that 75% thank you letter stat. I myself have not, and don't plan to send any... just because I'm so awkward when it comes to these things.

 

[mvenus929]

can someone who's been on the other side please explain how a program's rank list is generated?
also specifically why everyone so vehemently denies that having later interviews/sending thank you cards (which implicitly helps people remember you) does NOT affect your rank on the list? especially for programs that does their list at the end of the season

thanks

Our program has us fill out evaluations for everyone that we interview. Those get put into a database. The average interview score is made, and along with some sort of objective scores (I have no idea what is actually scored, or how it is scored), the rank list is generated. At the end of the season, the program leadership sits down and figures out if any applicant was miscategorized--if they fit really well, but maybe didn't have stellar scores, or if they had awesome scores, but were super awkward on interviews, etc--and make some small shifts in the list.

From an interviewer standpoint, chances are that I've already turned in my interview feedback by the time I get any thank you letters. It's a nice gesture, but that's all it is.

 

[Pafalogik]

A week ago I simply asked the many programs who have neither rejected me nor interviewed me as to my status and let them know I was really interested in their program etc.

I received a really nasty reply from a PD telling me my application was essentially a joke. This is crazy because I actually have interviews.

Is this the correct forum to post his email to me and the malignant program he represents?

 

[samaveli]

Hello,
I have a question regarding a prematch offer and I was hoping I could get an answer here. I was offered a prematch position last week by the PD via email and I had accepted it. I haven't received the offer letter yet, but the program coordinator informed me that I should receive it via mail in the next few days. My question is, when should I feel confident cancelling my upcoming interviews? And is there a chance that they might change their minds and withdraw their offer after I sign the letter? Thanks!

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[gutonc]

Hello,
I have a question regarding a prematch offer and I was hoping I could get an answer here. I was offered a prematch position last week by the PD via email and I had accepted it. I haven't received the offer letter yet, but the program coordinator informed me that I should receive it via mail in the next few days. My question is, when should I feel confident cancelling my upcoming interviews? And is there a chance that they might change their minds and withdraw their offer after I sign the letter? Thanks!

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You pull out of the Match the day before rank lists are due, if and only if, you have a signed (by the GME office, the PD and you) contract in hand before that day.

Otherwise you carry on as if you've never even heard of the concept of a pre-match.

 

[mcl]

A week ago I simply asked the many programs who have neither rejected me nor interviewed me as to my status and let them know I was really interested in their program etc.

I received a really nasty reply from a PD telling me my application was essentially a joke. This is crazy because I actually have interviews.

Is this the correct forum to post his email to me and the malignant program he represents?

Short answer: No.

I know you are hurting, and it was unkind and unprofessional for the PD to send that email to you. I could tell you to give him/her a break because of the stress of recruitment and volume of email, etc., etc., but I won't because nothing makes the response you received right or acceptable. If you were so unqualified for their program, they could have sent a regret notice before you got to the point of sending status update request emails.

But publicly posting correspondence that would identify the program and PD could also be seen as unprofessional, and may have unforeseen repercussions for you if you were ever identified as the person making the post.

I think better tactic might be to tell your story among other applicants on the interview trail--especially to those who tell you they have an interview at that program. You could also forward the email to the PD's superior(s)--Chair, Dean, DIO and ask whether the response you received from the PD reflects the attitude of the institution as a whole.

 

[samaveli]

You pull out of the Match the day before rank lists are due, if and only if, you have a signed (by the GME office, the PD and you) contract in hand before that day.

Otherwise you carry on as if you've never even heard of the concept of a pre-match.

Thank you gutonc, that makes perfect sense.

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[Lostin_space]

There are a few people whose emails tend to have a tone like nails on a chalkboard -- Sometimes it's just that person's history and a particular email is fine -- but they have a track record that causes me to postpone even reading their emails. Sometimes the negative tone comes clearly through the subject line, further delaying my response. A nasty, accusing or demanding tone does not bring out the best in me. Ever. Folks who are consistently polite and who don't imply all problems are my fault consistently receive a prompt courteous response from me.

I'd suggest your subject line start with "Quick Question" -- I'll open those right away. "Follow up" will also usually get a quick response unless you're a known jerk. "Second Request" MAKES you a known jerk, even when it actually is a second request.

And in the email body, allow the PC to save face by acknowledging how busy s/he must be at this time of year and that your initial email might not have been received -- it might not have.

I find it interesting again that you mention this. Another example of the frustrating experience I keep having with program coordinators: I have emailed this person twice, very politely, in regards to doing a rotation at their program. No response. I have called several times. no response. I actually emailed the PD who cc'ed the PC telling me to talk to her to set up an experience. I call the PC again no phone answer. I leave a message. Still nothing. This type of behavior I find very unprofessional.

 

[MeesterE]

I submitted an application for a categorical program and received an interview. To increase my chances of matching at this location I want to also be considered for the advanced spots. Is this doable by simply clicking the "advanced" box on ERAS, or do I have notify the program that I also wish to be considered for the advanced spot? Thank you!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You need to contact them also. Most programs will be happy to consider you for both. Just checking the box is likely to be overlooked.

 

[OrangeOrange]

When someone opens my application to review it, what are the first few things they see? Is there a sort of cover page with a bunch of identifiers and/or numbers?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

When we first open your application, we see your demographics displayed at the top -- Name, Med School, Picture, Email address, phone number, and what tracks you've applied to. Note that many of these fields can be "screened" -- so we review applications and can't see your picture, and then only reveal the pics after the interview decisions have been made.

At the bottom of the screen are tabs that correspond to your ERAS app -- Personal, Education, Experience, Publications, Exams, and Limiting Factors. We can click through those tabs to see those parts of your application.

On the right are links to your application attachments -- your MSPE, LOR's, Exams (the actual transcripts, we can see the scores on the tabs also), Transcript, etc. All of these pop open in new windows.

And last there's a section for us to control -- notes, status boxes, interviews, scores, etc. This is all for our own internal processing of applications.

 

[CranioScrotal]

When we first open your application, we see your demographics displayed at the top -- Name, Med School, Picture, Email address, phone number, and what tracks you've applied to. Note that many of these fields can be "screened" -- so we review applications and can't see your picture, and then only reveal the pics after the interview decisions have been made.

At the bottom of the screen are tabs that correspond to your ERAS app -- Personal, Education, Experience, Publications, Exams, and Limiting Factors. We can click through those tabs to see those parts of your application.

On the right are links to your application attachments -- your MSPE, LOR's, Exams (the actual transcripts, we can see the scores on the tabs also), Transcript, etc. All of these pop open in new windows.

And last there's a section for us to control -- notes, status boxes, interviews, scores, etc. This is all for our own internal processing of applications.

Question about what you mean by "what tracks you've applied". So say you're a radiology PD, when you open up my application can you see that I applied to urology and radiology? Or can you only see that I applied to both advanced and categorical radiology programs? Thanks for your help!

 

[IMPD]

Question about what you mean by "what tracks you've applied". So say you're a radiology PD, when you open up my application can you see that I applied to urology and radiology? Or can you only see that I applied to both advanced and categorical radiology programs? Thanks for your help!

In medicine, I can see if you've applied to my categorical and prelim programs, as those are the tracks in my program

Tracks = subset of my program.

Urology = other program. I can't see ANY other information about what OTHER programs you've applied to.

 

[OrangeOrange]

In medicine, I can see if you've applied to my categorical and prelim programs, as those are the tracks in my program

Tracks = subset of my program.

Urology = other program. I can't see ANY other information about what OTHER programs you've applied to.

What about combined programs? e.g., if they applied to both medicine and med-peds?

 

[IMPD]

What about combined programs? e.g., if they applied to both medicine and med-peds?

Unless I am also the Program Director for the combined program, I can't see it since it is, in fact, another program.

This gets complicated with combined programs, which may, or may not, have overlapping PDs.

But from ERAS point of view, it's all seperate. When I login to my ERAS account, it specifically directs me to my program(s). If I'm the PD of 3 programs, it's 3 seperate "choices" when I login. I recently stopped being the PD of a combined program and subsequently lost the ability to view those applicants.

 

[CranioScrotal]

In medicine, I can see if you've applied to my categorical and prelim programs, as those are the tracks in my program

Tracks = subset of my program.

Urology = other program. I can't see ANY other information about what OTHER programs you've applied to.

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. This is what I assumed, but wanted to make sure.

 

[Martasvilla]

When do programs typically send out invitations for 2nd look?

 

[Linecom]

1 email. To the PC.

Just 1. Then you're done.

Hello. I am currently applying for the match and have attempted to contact programs to communicate interest. All of the 'interest' emails I have sent out have been only sent to the program directors. Considering your advice, am I correct to assume that I have essentially sent my emails of interest to the wrong persons (i.e. PD instead of the PC)? If so, would it behoove me to resend my letters of interest to the PCs? How would you advise? Thanks so much for your feedback.

 

[mvenus929]

When do programs typically send out invitations for 2nd look?

Which specialty? Some specialties don't encourage a second look and thus no invitations are ever sent.

 

[mcl]

Hello. I am currently applying for the match and have attempted to contact programs to communicate interest. All of the 'interest' emails I have sent out have been only sent to the program directors. Considering your advice, am I correct to assume that I have essentially sent my emails of interest to the wrong persons (i.e. PD instead of the PC)? If so, would it behoove me to resend my letters of interest to the PCs? How would you advise? Thanks so much for your feedback.

Honestly, it probably wouldn't hurt to re-send you emails to the PC, but having not received a response after contacting the PD it's likely that the program doesn't feel that you are a good fit for them. In my program, when the PD gets an email from an applicant expressing interest, he always refers it to me for a snapshot assessment of the application and we'll go from there to respond with either a regret or an invitation.

 

[Martasvilla]

Which specialty? Some specialties don't encourage a second look and thus no invitations are ever sent.

Thank you for your response ☺.

Second look for FAMILY MEDICINE programs.

 

[Linecom]

Honestly, it probably wouldn't hurt to re-send you emails to the PC, but having not received a response after contacting the PD it's likely that the program doesn't feel that you are a good fit for them. In my program, when the PD gets an email from an applicant expressing interest, he always refers it to me for a snapshot assessment of the application and we'll go from there to respond with either a regret or an invitation.

Thanks for your reply. What you say certainly makes sense. I appreciate your thoughtful response.

 

[LATigers]

I wouldn't necessarily take a non-response from a PD as a rejection. My PD doesn't check his e-mail very often. His non-response may just mean he hasn't checked his e-mail!

Honestly, it probably wouldn't hurt to re-send you emails to the PC, but having not received a response after contacting the PD it's likely that the program doesn't feel that you are a good fit for them. In my program, when the PD gets an email from an applicant expressing interest, he always refers it to me for a snapshot assessment of the application and we'll go from there to respond with either a regret or an invitation.

 

[problemchild]

How do you know if your interview went well? I'm second guessing everything I did or didn't say. Is there anyway to know?
Also, should we be in communication with programs and let them know before the ROL deadline if they are our number one choice?

 

[mvenus929]

How do you know if your interview went well? I'm second guessing everything I did or didn't say. Is there anyway to know?
Also, should we be in communication with programs and let them know before the ROL deadline if they are our number one choice?

You don't. It's part of the process.

You can contact them if you wish, but it likely doesn't make a difference one way or another.

 

[purpleortholady]

I'm glad to know this thread is still active. Another question pls.

I recently heard about non-ACGME accredited fellowships which do not require doing residency as a means of getting USCE for an IMG or just non-ACGME accredited residency programs that are not in the match.

Are these to be considered and do they really increase one's chances of getting a slot in an ACGME accredited residency program?

Thanks again for your help