Are expensive loupes/lights *really* that much better?

[amalgam2020]

Our next restorative course is coming up, and everyone's researching/buying loupes. I've done a lot of research, and I've narrowed down the kinds of loupes I want, but they're really expensive. I'll be getting the student discount, so I guess now would be a good time to buy them. And they'd be an investment for the future.

But, I just want to know if the difference in quality between companies actually matches the vast difference in price. Like, why does glassware cost more than my 2015 Macbook Pro? And why is this Designs for Vision headlamp literally a thousand dollars?? https://www.designsforvision.com/Reality/FirstLookWLmini.pdf

Basically, the question is this: Is buying from companies like Orascoptic/Designs for Vision substantially better than buying factory direct from places like Shultz (loupedirect.com)? I'm willing to go with the more expensive stuff if it really is that much better. Does anyone out there have experience with both ends of the spectrum? Thanks.

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[Chipotlegonewild]

So much more clarity with the nicer lenses. It's like car shopping. A civic works but an M3 is so much nicer.

It's one of the most important equipment pieces for longevity of your career. Is this really the place you want to go cheap on?


Does your school not have something set up where the vendors come in and you can try them on?

 

[dr.d00m]

Doesn't expensive always mean better?

 

[Chipotlegonewild]

Doesn't expensive always mean better?

I know you are being facetious, but in most cases, you get what you pay for.

 

[beannaithe]

loupes are a very important part of your daily career. most of the name brand ones (orascoptic, dfv, surgitel) are custom fit for you based on your eye measurements and working length requirements. as opposed to being a one size fits all like lumadent and i believe, q-optic. i've owned surgitel and orascoptic and loved both. i'm currently still using my orascoptics going on 2 years.

lights are a different story. i've owned a surgitel and an orascoptic and both SUCKED. neither was bright enough and i couldn't even get the orascoptic one to stay still on the frame which they were built for. i own a lumadent one now which was half the price of the other two. it works great! customer service is wonderful. i would buy and will buy from them again, but so far my light's been working too good to even think about it. they also have adaptors to fit most name-brand loupes.

 

[schmoob]

It's the same reason you got a Mac when there are cheaper options. You can argue that any computer would do the trick, right? But when using something so frequently and something you will rely on so heavily, you want reliability and quality.
Dental school is expensive. There are better ways to save money.
Good luck!

 

[distressstudent]

I have used cheap loupes and later got DFV loupes. The DFV loupes are definitely better, but they were 10x more expensive than my old loupes. I paid 15x the price but I wouldnt say it was 15x better.

 

[Chipotlegonewild]

I have used cheap loupes and later got DFV loupes. The DFV loupes are definitely better, but they were 10x more expensive than my old loupes. I paid 15x the price but I wouldnt say it was 15x better.

Perfect point. You spent more than just buying the DFV loupes first.

 

[amalgam2020]

Thanks for your responses everyone! After reading what you've had to say and talking with some older students and practicing dentists, I'm going to make the investment in some high quality loupes that will hopefully see many years of use.

 

[Greyangel6]

I have 3.8x extended field from orascoptic. Not a single regret even though it alone cost $1600.

 

[BellaNella]

lights are a different story. i've owned a surgitel and an orascoptic and both SUCKED. neither was bright enough and i couldn't even get the orascoptic one to stay still on the frame which they were built for. i own a lumadent one now which was half the price of the other two. it works great! customer service is wonderful. i would buy and will buy from them again, but so far my light's been working too good to even think about it. they also have adaptors to fit most name-brand loupes.

The DFV light is also horrible. What a rip off!

The loupes, on the other hand, are great! I bought 2.5x during my second year from them and then during my third year I bought a pair of 3.5 EF. I have no regrets.

 

[ncide]

4.3x Orascoptic loupes are great. Don't settle for a low mag (2.5x), they're worthless.

Go for Lumadent lights, they cost less (still expensive IMO) and are very good quality.

 

[Ads620]

loupes are a very important part of your daily career. most of the name brand ones (orascoptic, dfv, surgitel) are custom fit for you based on your eye measurements and working length requirements. as opposed to being a one size fits all like lumadent and i believe, q-optic. i've owned surgitel and orascoptic and loved both. i'm currently still using my orascoptics going on 2 years.

lights are a different story. i've owned a surgitel and an orascoptic and both SUCKED. neither was bright enough and i couldn't even get the orascoptic one to stay still on the frame which they were built for. i own a lumadent one now which was half the price of the other two. it works great! customer service is wonderful. i would buy and will buy from them again, but so far my light's been working too good to even think about it. they also have adaptors to fit most name-brand loupes.

Just bought a pair of Q-Optics. They do the same custom measurements as the other name brands.

 

[x0jessmariex3]

Why is higher magnification better? Doesn't it limit your view? Just purchased 2.5xs

 

[Chipotlegonewild]

Yes. At higher mags, you want prism lenses which are designed to increase your fov

But limit your depth of field -- which is substantial at higher mags.

 

[SableFire]

Why is higher magnification better? Doesn't it limit your view? Just purchased 2.5xs

You can see way more and have better attention to detail. I have 4x expanded field and haven't had any issues with the size of my field. I can see the entire arch no problem. Also didn't you just get accepted? I would hold off on buying loupes until the loupes fair at your school. Unless they are cheap ones like $50. I can't see much benefit to using loupes for waxing. We didn't start using a handpiece consistently until 2nd semester D1.

 

[Legacy382]

You can see way more and have better attention to detail. I have 4x expanded field and haven't had any issues with the size of my field. I can see the entire arch no problem. Also didn't you just get accepted? I would hold off on buying loupes until the loupes fair at your school. Unless they are cheap ones like $50. I can't see much benefit to using loupes for waxing. We didn't start using a handpiece consistently until 2nd semester D1.

4.5x Q-optics prisms is all you need to know

 

[x0jessmariex3]

You can see way more and have better attention to detail. I have 4x expanded field and haven't had any issues with the size of my field. I can see the entire arch no problem. Also didn't you just get accepted? I would hold off on buying loupes until the loupes fair at your school. Unless they are cheap ones like $50. I can't see much benefit to using loupes for waxing. We didn't start using a handpiece consistently until 2nd semester D1.

They changed the curriculum so we already bought our loupes at Rutgers and they require us to get 2.5x. Lol $50 for loupes? I wish. Super expensive even with student discount.

 

[schmoob]

They changed the curriculum so we already bought our loupes at Rutgers and they require us to get 2.5x. Lol $50 for loupes? I wish. Super expensive even with student discount.

That stinks that they require you to buy specific loupes.

 

[BTR1208]

Take a look at orascoptic eye zoom. I met with rep last week and am ordering some this Fall. They were pretty cool because you could change mag from 3x to 4x to 5x.

 

[x0jessmariex3]

Ehh I don't mind dentists didn't always have loupes, some still don't use it. Plus all the dentists I work with use 2.5x and they seemed to work well with it

That stinks that they require you to buy specific loupes.[/QUOTE

 

[x0jessmariex3]

Ehh I don't mind dentists didn't always have loupes, some still don't use it. Plus all the dentists I work with use 2.5x and they seemed to work well with it

That stinks that they require you to buy specific loupes.[/QUOTE

 

[DrJeff]

Take a look at orascoptic eye zoom. I met with rep last week and am ordering some this Fall. They were pretty cool because you could change mag from 3x to 4x to 5x.

Just a word of advice, and this applies to MANY items that you'll use both on your own person and in your future office. Long term, and if you're making an investment in something to help you practice better/more efficiently/etc, it often is an investment of a decent amount of $$, the LESS movable parts, the better it holds up!

Using loupes as an example, you're way more likely to see a pair of through the lense, fixed position loupes in use, without any issues (short of you dropping them at some point ) than a pair of flip-up loupes....

And the likely reality is that after experimenting around with an adjustable mag set up like orascoptic has, you're just going to use 1, and only 1 magnification for everything! It's like the driver I have when I'm golfing.... I can in theory adjust it in a couple of hundred different ways. I had the pro who fit me for it set it the way that the measurements he took recommended, and then never put the adjusting tool in my golf bag (so as to not think about changing the settings), and that way I'm not thinking about is this the best setting for today???

In the field of dentistry, one of the achilles heals we have in general is that we tend to way over think things, to the point of where it can actually hinder, rather than help what we're trying to accomplish

 

[DrJeff]

Ehh I don't mind dentists didn't always have loupes, some still don't use it. Plus all the dentists I work with use 2.5x and they seemed to work well with it

Very often why many dentists, especially ones who have been in practice for 25+ years, won't use loupes, isn't because of the benefits from things like extra visualization and better posture, but because their just too cheap to want to spend the $$ after being educated in an era where loupe use, and loupe quality wasn't that common/great, and they're starting to think more about saving $$ as they near retirement, rather than continuing to make an investment in their practices, their career, and the potential quality of their work.

Since many dentists are their own bosses, as a whole, we tend to be quite aware of the bills that come into the office, and sometimes won't want to spend the money on something that we haven't seen the need for for the last multiple decades..

For example, I've been out of school for 20 years and now almost 17 years in my practice with my business partner. My business partner has been out of school almost 30 years and in the practice for about 27 years. I really started using loupes about a decade ago, and my partner and I got a pair of them at the same time (2.5x orascoptics) - I don't think that he's used his in 7 or 8 years, I use my now 4.3x orascoptics for everything, and have also bought all 4 of our hygienists 2.5x orascoptics and lights as well, which they all use and love. It's worth the investment in my mind. It's not worth the investment in the mind of others. That's just life, and neither is the right way or the wrong way, as long as it works for that individual....

 

[periopocket]

If your going to by an expensive pair of loupes, I would take advantage of the special student discount we all recieve and get the creme de la creme pair your senior year. Many things can happen to your first pair of loupes over 3-4 years when you dont understand how fragile or easily lost they can become.

 

[Faux]

Very often why many dentists, especially ones who have been in practice for 25+ years, won't use loupes, isn't because of the benefits from things like extra visualization and better posture, but because their just too cheap to want to spend the $$ after being educated in an era where loupe use, and loupe quality wasn't that common/great, and they're starting to think more about saving $$ as they near retirement, rather than continuing to make an investment in their practices, their career, and the potential quality of their work.

Since many dentists are their own bosses, as a whole, we tend to be quite aware of the bills that come into the office, and sometimes won't want to spend the money on something that we haven't seen the need for for the last multiple decades..

For example, I've been out of school for 20 years and now almost 17 years in my practice with my business partner. My business partner has been out of school almost 30 years and in the practice for about 27 years. I really started using loupes about a decade ago, and my partner and I got a pair of them at the same time (2.5x orascoptics) - I don't think that he's used his in 7 or 8 years, I use my now 4.3x orascoptics for everything, and have also bought all 4 of our hygienists 2.5x orascoptics and lights as well, which they all use and love. It's worth the investment in my mind. It's not worth the investment in the mind of others. That's just life, and neither is the right way or the wrong way, as long as it works for that individual....

Screw it, I'm going to buy a pair of 4.5x.

Seeing all the faculty with 2.5, turned me off from the idea. But at the end of the day, you don't know what you don't know.

 

[schmoob]

Screw it, I'm going to buy a pair of 4.5x.

Seeing all the faculty with 2.5, turned me off from the idea. But at the end of the day, you don't know what you don't know.

You getting Orascoptic? I've tried their 4.5's on the Legend frames and really liked that setup.

 

[Faux]

You getting Orascoptic? I've tried their 4.5's on the Legend frames and really liked that setup.

yeah i tried the prisms with the legends. Sturdy and quite the looker too.

 

[schmoob]

yeah i tried the prisms with the legends. Sturdy and quite the looker too.

I would definitely recommend.

 

[Faux]

I would definitely recommend.

what do you have?

 

[schmoob]

Personally, I have Eyezooms on XV1's. They're awesome and worth every penny. I love changing between magnifications and being wireless. The batteries provide a great counterbalance to the optics. I maxed out the angle of declination. Batteries last longer than expected and it comes with 2 pairs, so I always have a pair read to go. Switching batteries takes 30 seconds. Definitely a great buy.

 

[Faux]

Personally, I have Eyezooms on XV1's. They're awesome and worth every penny. I love changing between magnifications and being wireless. The batteries provide a great counterbalance to the optics. I maxed out the angle of declination. Batteries last longer than expected and it comes with 2 pairs, so I always have a pair read to go. Switching batteries takes 30 seconds. Definitely a great buy.
View attachment 220756

Is there any cons for maxing out the angle of declination?

 

[ncide]

Is there any cons for maxing out the angle of declination?

Your chiropractor is gonna have one less patient.

 

[ncide]

Personally, I have Eyezooms on XV1's. They're awesome and worth every penny. I love changing between magnifications and being wireless. The batteries provide a great counterbalance to the optics. I maxed out the angle of declination. Batteries last longer than expected and it comes with 2 pairs, so I always have a pair read to go. Switching batteries takes 30 seconds. Definitely a great buy.

A prosth director told me to get the same pair of eyezooms. Wish I did. Listen to schmoob!

I still like my lumadent lights and batteries. 8-10 hour life and I have two, so I never run out batteries and they last entire day.

 

[Faux]

Your chiropractor is gonna have one less patient.

I assumed all loupes have max declination. I guess its something you need to make a request for?

 

[schmoob]

I assumed all loupes have max declination. I guess its something you need to make a request for?

Different manufacturers work differently. Many have a standard angle that may or may not be the max. You need to specifically ask for the max angle.

A prosth director told me to get the same pair of eyezooms. Wish I did. Listen to schmoob!

I still like my lumadent lights and batteries. 8-10 hour life and I have two, so I never run out batteries and they last entire day.

If you have a light you can get Eyezooms on the Legend frames and use your Lumadent. It'll save you money because you won't need to buy another one.
What do you currently have?

 

[ncide]

If you have a light you can get Eyezooms on the Legend frames and use your Lumadent. It'll save you money because you won't need to buy another one.
What do you currently have?

I have the HiRes Plus 4.3x on the Legend frames.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Personally, I have Eyezooms on XV1's. They're awesome and worth every penny. I love changing between magnifications and being wireless. The batteries provide a great counterbalance to the optics. I maxed out the angle of declination. Batteries last longer than expected and it comes with 2 pairs, so I always have a pair read to go. Switching batteries takes 30 seconds. Definitely a great buy.
View attachment 220756

High roller! I love my Orascoptic HDL 2.5 micro loupes. Just wish I could afford the Spark headlight. Make sure you all get a working length that lets you sit up straight with your arms at 90 degrees.

Big Hoss

 

[schmoob]

I have the HiRes Plus 4.3x on the Legend frames.

Maybe you can call Orascoptic and see how much it will cost to get Eyezooms on your frames. It may save a few bucks to just get the optics with no frames or light.

 

[schmoob]

High roller! I love my Orascoptic HDL 2.5 micro loupes. Just wish I could afford the Spark headlight. Make sure you all get a working length that lets you sit up straight with your arms at 90 degrees.

Big Hoss

Lol I guess. They had a 9 month payment plan so it wasn't too bad. Worth it in my opinion.

I didn't like the Spark, personally. With the light and battery in the front, it seemed like it added a lot of weight on the nose and strain the neck. Having the batteries in the back of the back of the XV1 gives me a good counterweight to balance.

 

[ncide]

Maybe you can call Orascoptic and see how much it will cost to get Eyezooms on your frames. It may save a few bucks to just get the optics with no frames or light.

That's actually a good idea, I have to send them in for repairs anyways.

 

[Faux]

Different manufacturers work differently. Many have a standard angle that may or may not be the max. You need to specifically ask for the max angle.


If you have a light you can get Eyezooms on the Legend frames and use your Lumadent. It'll save you money because you won't need to buy another one.
What do you currently have?

I have the HiRes Plus 4.3x on the Legend frames.

Out of curiosity, why does it seem like the DFV 4.5 are a lot longer than orascoptic 4.5 prisms?

 

[schmoob]

Out of curiosity, why does it seem like the DFV 4.5 are a lot longer than orascoptic 4.5 prisms?

I'm not sure. I dont know anything about DFV loupes so I couldn't tell you

 

[TeethRgreat]

Before any of you guys buy those orascoptics you really should look into Q-optics. Extremely light weight due to their titanium/carbon fiber design. Custom lenses which allows max inclination angle. Also, Lifetime warranty. I own a set of their 4.5x and they are way nicer build and ergonomics than my orascoptics. Also, you should never purchase plastic loupes. They feel cheap, and they flex too much which causes the glue around the scopes to deteriorate over time. Titanium is a much better material and is also very light weight.

 

[Chipotlegonewild]

Before any of you guys buy those orascoptics you really should look into Q-optics. Extremely light weight due to their titanium/carbon fiber design. Custom lenses which allows max inclination angle. Also, Lifetime warranty. I own a set of their 4.5x and they are way nicer build and ergonomics than my orascoptics. Also, you should never purchase plastic loupes. They feel cheap, and they flex too much which causes the glue around the scopes to deteriorate over time. Titanium is a much better material and is also very light weight.

Not sure I want a max inclination angle.

 

[deleted696582]

Alright @schmoob I'm sold. I'm balling out at the loupes fair soon and getting the XV1 frame with EyeZooms.

 

[schmoob]

Alright @schmoob I'm sold. I'm balling out at the loupes fair soon and getting the XV1 frame with EyeZooms.

Go for it! See if you like them. Check out other manufacturers as well. Q-optics loupes really are super light, you can barely notice them. I am just not a fan of the optics, personally. But everyone is different and see what you like the most. If you decide to go with DrJeff's advice and get a fixed magnification, I would recommend looking into Orascoptics newer 4.5X prisms. I know someone who has them on Legend frames and it's a really nice setup IMO. I dont think they make the 4.3's anymore.

Dentistry involves lots of learned hand-eye skills. It never ceases to amaze me that people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn the necessary hand skills, but completely cheap-out when it comes to their eyes.

 

[TeethRgreat]

Not sure I want a max inclination angle.

Sorry, declination angle, you know what I mean.

Just pick up a set of those XV1s and put them next to Q-optics 4.0 or 4.5 prism expanded fields and the decision will be easy. Here's my setup (4.5s w/ Lumadent unilux).

 

[SableFire]

They changed the curriculum so we already bought our loupes at Rutgers and they require us to get 2.5x. Lol $50 for loupes? I wish. Super expensive even with student discount.

That's really crappy that the school forces that on you. I didn't even consider 2.5s because they hardly magnified at all.

 

[schmoob]

They changed the curriculum so we already bought our loupes at Rutgers and they require us to get 2.5x. Lol $50 for loupes? I wish. Super expensive even with student discount.

Sorry if this is a silly question, but you said your school forces you to get 2.5X - does that mean you can't get other loupes on your own and use those?