Any residents drive for Uber/Lyft?

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metallica81788

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I've been thinking about driving for Uber to earn some extra cash on Thursday/Friday nights. My program doesn't allow moonlighting until PGY5 and RadOnc doesn't offer any good opportunities anyway (at least near me and at best could require taking vacation). It could be a way to grab some extra cash but obviously if the $$$/hr isn't great I could back out. Might be nice to have an extra $300 a month. Any thoughts?

...and please let's keep the "how do you even have time to think about doing this" comments to yourselves...

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Never considered Uber/Lyft, but I got a second job after family medical expenses were piling up. Put a decent dent in my research time/energy and my SDN time, but such is life. Pay is almost as good as moonlighting, not sure if I'd do it if the pay was less. We aren't allowed to moonlight at any level (change in department rules).
 
I've been thinking about driving for Uber to earn some extra cash on Thursday/Friday nights. My program doesn't allow moonlighting until PGY5 and RadOnc doesn't offer any good opportunities anyway (at least near me and at best could require taking vacation). It could be a way to grab some extra cash but obviously if the $$$/hr isn't great I could back out. Might be nice to have an extra $300 a month. Any thoughts?

...and please let's keep the "how do you even have time to think about doing this" comments to yourselves...

-Uber/Lyft
Pros: Relatively easy job, can choose your schedule
Cons: Dealing with $hitty people in your car, need a camera pointed back at them to protect against any false accusations etc

Could make more money tutoring like was mentioned earlier.
 
just make sure you dont pick up any 4th year neuro residents lol
 
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I've always wanted to give it a shot too. Always sounded like an interesting job if you werent doing it for the money.

But I agree that if you were looking to make money, there seems to be much better options. Tutoring seems like one.
 
For some reason this thread depressed the **** out of me, especially @mimelim reply. Aren't you like a PGY-6? Does your program not pay you enough or give you enough benefits to take care of your family's health insurance? seems totally unacceptable to me, especially when there are mid-levels making 2-3x as much as you.
 
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For some reason this thread depressed the **** out of me, especially @mimelim reply. Aren't you like a PGY-6? Does your program not pay you enough or give you enough benefits to take care of your family's health insurance? seems totally unacceptable to me, especially when there are mid-levels making 2-3x as much as you.

PGY-5 for another 6 weeks. My pay is good, ~65k and my benefits are quite good. But, my whole family isn't on my hospital insurance plan. And, though it doesn't need to be stated outright, healthcare is very expensive in this country. I won't go into details, but long story short, as with everyone, life throws curve balls and circumstances change, most of which we can't control. Most Americans earn less than me, have less access to health care and are far less efficient with the money that they have than I am. On the other hand, they don't have the debt I do and they don't work the same hours that I do. My outside work doesn't interfere with my clinical duties and it is something that I do generally enjoy doing. Could be in a much worse spot for sure. The alternative is taking out more loans, going into credit card debt etc. which I have seen several residents do.

Regarding pay, I flatly reject the mid-level comparison. I know it isn't a popular opinion and I certainly know that I'm not going to change many minds, but... I hold no animosity toward my hospital, department or mid-level providers about the wage gap. I am in training. I get paid more than the average American to work 80 hours/week. But, I also am being taught by some of the best physicians in my field how to practice vascular surgery. When I graduate, I will be able to command a salary that puts me at a minimum in the top 3% of earners in the US with the potential to be much higher than that by combining my other outside skills with that training. Can the mid-levels say that? Absolutely not. We pay ours well and they go home at 4pm and don't work weekends, and they are taught how to be an effective mid-level resident on our services. But, they are not being invested in the same way that my faculty are investing in me. I can with confidence say that there are few vascular surgery operations that are outside my current abilities and I still have quite a bit of time before I graduate. My decision making is strong and always improving as a direct result of hours upon hours of managing patients and discussing them with my staff. Is it a perfect system? No. Would I love to be paid more and work a few fewer hours? Yes. But, I hardly see my circumstances as a huge tragedy. Over the past 5 years in residency, I have seen a larger cross section of the US population and society than all the previous years combined. I am in a better position than the vast majority of Americans and there are few I would trade my position for. Life is hard, working is hard, healthcare is expensive, at least from where I sit, it is simply reality.
 
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That's a great take on the situation and more gracious than a lot of others would admit amongst the constant and oftentimes justified complaining of our colleagues. I also am fine with my pay and benefits, but like you said, life throws you curveballs and sometimes it would be nice to have a little extra until the big boy job comes calling (hopefully).

All the tutoring mentions make sense, but I've tried that before in college and didn't like it. I'm much better at teaching residents and medical students in the clinic than various college students around town. I'm not even good enough at physics yet to help with that haha.

What about those taking H&Ps for Medicaid/care whatever? That could be an option in a year. Has anybody done that or known somebody that did?
 
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I've always wanted to give it a shot too. Always sounded like an interesting job if you werent doing it for the money.

But I agree that if you were looking to make money, there seems to be much better options. Tutoring seems like one.

So like if you were doing it for the companionship, or to maybe kill time and just see "what is out there?"

You may finally be on to something here, Bannie.
 
So like if you were doing it for the companionship, or to maybe kill time and just see "what is out there?"

You may finally be on to something here, Bannie.
Hahaha. I dont think it works that way but I was thinking that meeting different people could be interesting but you meet and deal with too many characters if you are in medicine anyway.
Scratch that thought. Something quiet like being a libarian and stacking the shelves seems more enticing now.
 
You should talk to your PD about this if you plant to pursue it. Many programs consider any work outside the hospital to be moonlighting.

As an intern (moonlighting not allowed), my PD let me do an EPIC consulting gig. He said "well, it's not that different than babysitting, so I don't consider it moonlighting." On the other hand, my residency program considered the same work moonlighting, so I would've had to get approval (as moonlighting is allowed, you just need permission). I ended up deciding it wasn't worth it anymore, as I had to use vacation time (it was generally for 5-14 days at a time) and my wife had changed jobs that allowed her a little vacation time, so we wanted to use that.

It may sound silly that Uber/Lyft could be considered moonlighting, but you could land in a lot of hot water if something happened and the program found out you were doing any paid work outside the hospital that they consider moonlighting. Your resident handbook may explain clearly what moonlighting is, but I still think it's a good idea to run it by your PD.
 
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You should talk to your PD about this if you plant to pursue it. Many programs consider any work outside the hospital to be moonlighting.

As an intern (moonlighting not allowed), my PD let me do an EPIC consulting gig. He said "well, it's not that different than babysitting, so I don't consider it moonlighting." On the other hand, my residency program considered the same work moonlighting, so I would've had to get approval (as moonlighting is allowed, you just need permission). I ended up deciding it wasn't worth it anymore, as I had to use vacation time (it was generally for 5-14 days at a time) and my wife had changed jobs that allowed her a little vacation time, so we wanted to use that.

It may sound silly that Uber/Lyft could be considered moonlighting, but you could land in a lot of hot water if something happened and the program found out you were doing any paid work outside the hospital that they consider moonlighting. Your resident handbook may explain clearly what moonlighting is, but I still think it's a good idea to run it by your PD.

makes zero sense to suggest that any other source of income is considered moonlighting.
 
makes zero sense to suggest that any other source of income is considered moonlighting.

It makes sense. I'm not suggesting any other source of income (that you work for--passive/investment income is different) is considered moonlighting--I'm saying it is considered moonlighting at some programs. Our program is ultimately concerned about our ability to practice medicine safely in our program. If I were a surgery resident already pushing the 80hr/week duty hour limit, but I wanted to work another 10-20hrs/week, then that could create a liability for the program, regardless of whether that job is medically-related or not.

Either way, what matters is how the program the OP is at interprets moonlighting. It doesn't matter if it seems silly to us, the program gets to dictate what is considered moonlighting. If they define it to include any work, and the OP has makes kind of error or has an adverse event, and the program learns they're working in another job, particularly if it brings them over 80hrs/week, then that could (in a worse-case scenario) be grounds for dismissal, could alter how the hospital's liability insurance covers a claim, etc.

My guess is the OP's PD would say something along the lines of "just don't let it interfere with work or bring your combined working hours above 80hrs/week). But it's still possible they need official written approval. It's a small/easy matter for the OP to talk to their PD to clarify their program's moonlighting policy.
 
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makes zero sense to suggest that any other source of income is considered moonlighting.

Why? The point of the moonlighting rules are to keep you from overworking yourself and burning yourself out. From the PD's perspective moonlighting for Uber has all of the downsides of clinical moonlighting.
 
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It makes sense. I'm not suggesting any other source of income (that you work for--passive/investment income is different) is considered moonlighting--I'm saying it is considered moonlighting at some programs. Our program is ultimately concerned about our ability to practice medicine safely in our program. If I were a surgery resident already pushing the 80hr/week duty hour limit, but I wanted to work another 10-20hrs/week, then that could create a liability for the program, regardless of whether that job is medically-related or not.

Either way, what matters is how the program the OP is at interprets moonlighting. It doesn't matter if it seems silly to us, the program gets to dictate what is considered moonlighting. If they define it to include any work, and the OP has makes kind of error or has an adverse event, and the program learns they're working in another job, particularly if it brings them over 80hrs/week, then that could (in a worse-case scenario) be grounds for dismissal, could alter how the hospital's liability insurance covers a claim, etc.

My guess is the OP's PD would say something along the lines of "just don't let it interfere with work or bring your combined working hours above 80hrs/week). But it's still possible they need official written approval. It's a small/easy matter for the OP to talk to their PD to clarify their program's moonlighting policy.

you think investment income is different now? nice!
 
you think investment income is different now? nice!

Correct, passive investment income does not constitute employment. By definition, passive income requires no/minimal work. If you're a very active day-trader, then yes, that could potentially be considered moonlighting by a program.

I'm not sure what about the concept of moonlighting is confusing to you. Any employment outside the residency program, for which someone is compensated for, can potentially be viewed as moonlighting.

Keep in mind it's the legal department that sets these rules--if you were the lawyer of a large hospital system, how would you define moonlighting? Would you be ok with young, overworked, and relatively inexperienced physicians spending more time engaged in activities outside the hospital? Activities that will take away their energy and increase risk of malpractice? No--as a lawyer, your primary concern is the hospital's liability if you do something wrong. So you limit residents' ability to do paid work outside the hospital. It has nothing to do with someone's residency program--these things are decided much above a PD's paygrade. Though, if moonlighting is allowed at the institution level, individual PD's can typically still ban/limit it within their particular program.

Please keep in mind I say this as someone with first-hand experience from two programs that interpreted moonlighting differently. You're welcome to disagree with me if you want, but I'm just here to help the OP not land in any hot water.

Edit: I should clarify it's not just the legal department that would define the moonlighting policy. The GME program typically works with legal to determine it--legal is concerned about liability, and GME is more concerned about resident training/responsibilities. On top of that, individual PD's can have further say to limit moonlighting within their program.
 
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Correct, passive investment income does not constitute employment. By definition, passive income requires no/minimal work. If you're a very active day-trader, then yes, that could potentially be considered moonlighting by a program.

I'm not sure what about the concept of moonlighting is confusing to you. Any employment outside the residency program, for which someone is compensated for, can potentially be viewed as moonlighting.

Keep in mind it's the legal department that sets these rules--if you were the lawyer of a large hospital system, how would you define moonlighting? Would you be ok with young, overworked, and relatively inexperienced physicians spending more time engaged in activities outside the hospital? Activities that will take away their energy and increase risk of malpractice? No--as a lawyer, your primary concern is the hospital's liability if you do something wrong. So you limit residents' ability to do paid work outside the hospital. It has nothing to do with someone's residency program--these things are decided much above a PD's paygrade. Though, if moonlighting is allowed at the institution level, individual PD's can typically still ban/limit it within their particular program.

Please keep in mind I say this as someone with first-hand experience from two programs that interpreted moonlighting differently. You're welcome to disagree with me if you want, but I'm just here to help the OP not land in any hot water.

So would OP be able to obtain these specifics regarding moonlighting dos/donts from their hospital lawyers? Where could one find a definite answer?
 
So would OP be able to obtain these specifics regarding moonlighting dos/donts from their hospital lawyers? Where could one find a definite answer?

I'd start with the PD. Typically they're very familiar with the moonlighting policies, and if they're not, the PD can then check with the GME director. I don't think a resident would ever need to talk with the lawyers unless there were unusual circumstances.
 
Correct, passive investment income does not constitute employment. By definition, passive income requires no/minimal work. If you're a very active day-trader, then yes, that could potentially be considered moonlighting by a program.

I'm not sure what about the concept of moonlighting is confusing to you. Any employment outside the residency program, for which someone is compensated for, can potentially be viewed as moonlighting.

Keep in mind it's the legal department that sets these rules--if you were the lawyer of a large hospital system, how would you define moonlighting? Would you be ok with young, overworked, and relatively inexperienced physicians spending more time engaged in activities outside the hospital? Activities that will take away their energy and increase risk of malpractice? No--as a lawyer, your primary concern is the hospital's liability if you do something wrong. So you limit residents' ability to do paid work outside the hospital. It has nothing to do with someone's residency program--these things are decided much above a PD's paygrade. Though, if moonlighting is allowed at the institution level, individual PD's can typically still ban/limit it within their particular program.

Please keep in mind I say this as someone with first-hand experience from two programs that interpreted moonlighting differently. You're welcome to disagree with me if you want, but I'm just here to help the OP not land in any hot water.
At the same time, the print is what matters, so look at your contract. What they would prefer and what is within your legal rights per your contract are often very different things.

That being said, working part time for the chump change that these companies offer is a bad decision.
 
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At the same time, the print is what matters, so look at your contract. What they would prefer and what is within your legal rights per your contract are often very different things.

That being said, working part time for the chump change that these companies offer is a bad decision.

I agree--the contract often pretty clearly states the policy regarding moonlighting. I don't know if they define what constitutes moonlighting, but it'd be a good place to start.
 
At the same time, the print is what matters, so look at your contract. What they would prefer and what is within your legal rights per your contract are often very different things.

That being said, working part time for the chump change that these companies offer is a bad decision.

I agree, also to add, ambiguity in a contract typically favors the employee, especially if they are somewhat of a vulnerable population ie. residents. Just be prepared for your contract to change for the following year. Also be prepared for them to 'recommend' signing a new contract and rip up your old one. Be prepared to realize that there is nothing that you can do about it that won't end poorly for you.
 
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